184 réponses à ce sujet

[Naltair]

Riot Inducer wrote...
But then again Female Shepard has the superior voicework so maybe that's compensation? 

That is a matter of opinion, I found found Mark Meer to be fantastic, I am not too impressed with Hale thus far, but both are solid.

I still think people put WAY too much stock into the LIs in general it's very offsetting.

[Lucy Glitter]

Lyrandori wrote...

I completely agree with the OP, but it's sadly nothing new, the video games industry is mostly for young males, plain and simple, but the truth is often frustrating, why? Because we live in a world of lies.

It's more the fact that BioWare are usually much more... equal. They really alienated a lot of female fans.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Lyrandori wrote...

I completely agree with the OP, but it's sadly nothing new, the video games industry is mostly for young males, plain and simple, but the truth is often frustrating, why? Because we live in a world of lies.

A world of lies?

[Gilsa]

Aryana70 wrote...
BW better bring back Kaidan in ME3 with a really great reunion scene and he better be part of the crew this time

This is also MPO, too, but I would be surprised if they didn't make the wait worth it in ME3. I was thinking about how they took out key characters in this game so they'd be available for the final game. That means the 10 characters we have on our team right now ... any of them could potentially die. How are they going to account for the many, many different game exports in the next game, depending on who is supposedly dead? This is why I sort of think that Tali and Garrus will be sidelined in the next game and won't be considered as one of the main crew members. (They're going to have to account for games where Tali and Garrus did not survive the suicide mission.)  I think what makes this suck so much is that we have to wait what, another two years to find out how it all ends. A long time to wait. =p (They better ride off into the damn sunset, that's all I can say!)

[Lyrandori]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Lyrandori wrote...

I completely agree with the OP, but it's sadly nothing new, the video games industry is mostly for young males, plain and simple, but the truth is often frustrating, why? Because we live in a world of lies.

It's more the fact that BioWare are usually much more... equal. They really alienated a lot of female fans.

But it happens in pretty much all games with female characters, alien or not. It's always at the "advantage" of male gamers, and extremely rarely at the advantage of female gamers. It's really not just related to BioWare or the ME franchise, it goes as far back as revealing that Samus is a girl up to having some hot lesbo action with a blue female-looking alien on a space ship.

Modifié par Lyrandori, 06 février 2010 - 05:01 .

[Naltair]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Lyrandori wrote...

I completely agree with the OP, but it's sadly nothing new, the video games industry is mostly for young males, plain and simple, but the truth is often frustrating, why? Because we live in a world of lies.

It's more the fact that BioWare are usually much more... equal. They really alienated a lot of female fans.

There are more choices than in ME1... I am confused.  So did ME1 alienate a lot of female fans?

[Lyrandori]

Naltair wrote...

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Lyrandori wrote...

I completely agree with the OP, but it's sadly nothing new, the video games industry is mostly for young males, plain and simple, but the truth is often frustrating, why? Because we live in a world of lies.

It's more the fact that BioWare are usually much more... equal. They really alienated a lot of female fans.

There are more choices than in ME1... I am confused.  So did ME1 alienate a lot of female fans?

The OP wasn't really complaining about the actual numbers, her choice was made clear for Garrus, what she was disappointed in was the romance scene itself, head bumping with Garrus while other characters practically start to have sex, I completely understand her point of view, and being in the shoes of female players in ME2 must be painful, even for us male players who do like to create female Shepards it's already tough, especially when BioWare takes control of the role-play for you and force Female Shepard to talk in a suggestive way to Jacob right from the start instead of just talking in a normal and professional tone with him like with everyone else on the ship. There's less potential for role-play in ME2's romance options and the romance scenes ARE better IF you happen to be a male gamer, that's what the OP tries to tell us, unless I'm wrong.

[tmp7704]

Lyrandori wrote...

But it happens in pretty much all games with female characters, alien or not. It's always at the "advantage" of male gamers, and extremely rarely at the advantage of female gamers. It's really not just related to BioWare or the ME franchise, it goes as far back as revealing that Samus is a girl up to having some hot lesbo action with a blue female-looking alien on a space ship.

Wait, being able to have homosexual relationship if you're playing female character is supposed to be advantage of male gamers, now?

I think you'll have hard time explaining to the gay guys that lack of such option for them is the sign of treating the males better.

edit: also, re "romances for guys are better"... they're more graphic. Whether that's actually better is in the eye of beholder -- consider the DA scenes which were ridiculed precisely because they attempted to show more than the scenes from ME1.

Modifié par tmp7704, 06 février 2010 - 05:13 .

[mandalore18]

I think people are putting too much thought into male female gamer thing they did less work on all of these for both side of the L.I things because BW dosen't want showing too much bighting them in thie A** aging. They dicided to play it safe and show less for all gamers females and males alike.

[Lyrandori]

tmp7704 wrote...

Lyrandori wrote...

But it happens in pretty much all games with female characters, alien or not. It's always at the "advantage" of male gamers, and extremely rarely at the advantage of female gamers. It's really not just related to BioWare or the ME franchise, it goes as far back as revealing that Samus is a girl up to having some hot lesbo action with a blue female-looking alien on a space ship.

Wait, being able to have homosexual relationship if you're playing female character is supposed to be advantage of male gamers, now?

I think you'll have hard time explaining to the gay guys that lack of such option for them is the sign of treating the males better.

I won't have a hard time explaning the case for homosexual male gamers either, because they are in the exact same position than straight female gamers are. As I said, the video game industry is mostly focused towards male gamers, whether or not they are homosexual in real life or whether or not they dream of virtual homosexuality in a video game isn't changing the situation at all, it just is, games in general in which we have female characters, at least in terms of antagonists or of course in terms of protagonists they have a tendency to not have much clothing on them, have big boobs, a sexy cliché voice and kill their foes with swords or guns.

There's always exceptions, of course, I'm just generalizing, but I understand what the OP was pointing at, in her case it was as simple as a true observation, one that we cannot deny, none of us can, in ME2 the "love scenes" are better for male gamers in general. If you happen to be a woman and make a female Shepard who falls in love with Garrus and except them to "kiss", you're in the wrong boat, they just head-bump, while Jack, Miranda and Tali's love scenes go further into the "daring" territories.

Modifié par Lyrandori, 06 février 2010 - 05:17 .

[SilentInnuendo]

Im happy to see that some girl gamers are preturbed by this, it shows the diverse love for this game, keep it up gals.

[MagicianCamille]

Femshep is not a barbie doll. What is with female and cross-gender gamers excepting Femshep to have a huge personality overhaul from male Shepard? She's still a hard-ass soldier with a leader personality. Being female isn't going to make her a damsel in distress.



I've watched all of the romance dialogue and love scenes, they are all on par with each other. Miranda's is actually the most "erotic", but she's so much of a **** if she doesn't flash her breasts by the time it's over you're gonna be pissed.

[tmp7704]

Lyrandori wrote...

I won't have a hard time explaning the case for homosexual male gamers either, because they are in the exact same position than straight female gamers are.

Which means they aren't actually being treated better if they're in the exact same position...
 

There's always exceptions, of course, I'm just generalizing, but I understand what the OP was pointing at, in her case it was as simple as a true observation, one that we cannot deny, none of us can, in ME2 the "love scenes" are better for male gamers in general. If you happen to be a woman and make a female Shepard who falls in love with Garrus and except them to "kiss", you're in the wrong boat, they just head-bump, while Jack, Miranda and Tali's love scenes go further into the "daring" territories.

Again, what the OP is pointing out is the male romances are more graphic* Which doesn't actually automatically make them better. Virtual "sex" of computer puppets can be quite laughable and an immersion breaker. Personally i'm glad in this particular case they had the restraint to let the player's imagination fill in the blanks.

*) the degree of it is questionable, Thane's scene is more graphic than Tali's scene for example, and Jacob's scene is on par with the others the males get, imo.

[Legbiter]

KalliChan07 wrote...

I played through, and beat the game in 22hrs.  I originally thought I'd go for Thane, but Garrus easily won my heart.  I was so excited to see Garrus get something great for himself; Shepard.  Then I saw the love scene... it was so sweet and I enjoyed it.. but we bumped heads............

*coughs*


BUMPED HEADS?!?!?!

I get he's an alien.. but really?  Tali could've died and she takes her mask off for male shepard, Miranda shows her breasts, and Jack gets some bed action.  Yet you gave Garrus a damn head bump?!  COME ON!!!

The poor guy gets betrayed, his face nearly blown off, and what do I give him?  ...a head bump.

Maybe your femshep stroking the side of his face and then rubbing heads is the Turian equivalent of stroking the shaft & cupping the balls. Perhaps the ladies got the raunchiest romance scene of the lot. 

 

[Niorcs]

Legbiter wrote...

KalliChan07 wrote...

I played through, and beat the game in 22hrs.  I originally thought I'd go for Thane, but Garrus easily won my heart.  I was so excited to see Garrus get something great for himself; Shepard.  Then I saw the love scene... it was so sweet and I enjoyed it.. but we bumped heads............

*coughs*


BUMPED HEADS?!?!?!

I get he's an alien.. but really?  Tali could've died and she takes her mask off for male shepard, Miranda shows her breasts, and Jack gets some bed action.  Yet you gave Garrus a damn head bump?!  COME ON!!!

The poor guy gets betrayed, his face nearly blown off, and what do I give him?  ...a head bump.

Maybe your femshep stroking the side of his face and then rubbing heads is the Turian equivalent of stroking the shaft & cupping the balls. Perhaps the ladies got the raunchiest romance scene of the lot. 

 

I love you.

I liked the romances better than what I was able to get in ME1, minus not having lesboTali. I mean, Kaidan and Liara were good characters, but as love interests that were either immature or BAAWWWWW BIOTICMAN, not really my cup of tea. I thought Garrus' was more heartfelt and emotional, which is the opposite of what he usually was in the game, which is a treat- you get to see his nervousness and weakness.

I'm romancing Thane at the moment- I love his background as well. Next playthrough I'll probe into Jacob's character and see what he's like :3

[KalosCast]

Human fluids (much like human food, as they use the same protein structures) would be poisonous to Garrus and vice versa. You two making out furiously followed by puking all over each other would be a hell of a lot less romantic.

[Aryana70]

@ Nadia73.........



I tend to disagree with you a bit, I believe that there are now as many female gamers as there are male and BW should take that into consideration. If its not a game that is targeted to females then technically there would be the option to a female character. BW would be cutting off there arm if they think their target audience is primarily male.



But like you also said, it is in fact a fantastic game and i am hanging for the next installment. I am looking forward to watch they have in store for us next

[swirlwind]

I think my main disappointment with the Garrus romance was the lack of payoff in the end, but the reason for that was the fact that throughout the romance, that was exactly what was being discussed. How to be able to overcome the admittedly huge biological differences. I would've been happy with what KalliChan suggested: just a clear hint that things were actually taking a sexual turn between the two characters. Other than the final scene, I though the romance was brilliant. Funny and yet sexy, which is how I personally like it. (As for the exchange of fluids, come on guys, there's safe sex in the galaxy for sure!)

I haven't played the Jacob romance yet, because as a character, I find him so boring it feels like a total disservice to my Shepard to force her to flirt with him. The Thane romance was okay, but I felt it had too many elements women gamers have seen before and also hated before: namely, being compared to the romance interest's previous love. Also, his story revolving a lot around his impending death and his family matters was a little much for me. I was hoping for more sexiness, but there was none. It almost felt like my Shep was Thane's shrink and he crushed on her because of that. Finally, since it was a cross-species relationship, I would've liked them to address that and not just brush over it.

What I'd most like to see in romances as a woman gamer:

- heat between the characters (I obviously don't mean pr0n here, but I do mean chemistry. Would it be too much to ask for the characters to actually touch each other before the final encounter scene? People who are drawn to each other tend to want to touch each other even when there's no sex involved.)

[Edit: I'm being a bit unfair here. Thane had his hand holding and I think Shep touched Garrus once before the final scene, but more would be better, IMO.]

- balanced interaction (meaning that it isn't just about the PC constantly probing the romanceable character for information, but that the romance interest also shows interest towards the PC. Thane was especially lacking in this regard. It was all about him all the time, except once when he asked Shep how she was and all we got to answer was either "I don't want to romance you anymore" or "I'm fine, what about you?")
- discussions referring to what is going on in the game (Examples: Shepard having been brought back from the dead and possibly being a bit traumatised because she doesn't know exactly what's been done to her, breaking up with the LI in ME1, the main story missions, etc.)

Okay, stopping now before this turns into a total text marathon

Modifié par swirlwind, 06 février 2010 - 08:17 .

[Naltair]

@swilrwind



You bring up a good point I would like to see the LI probe/ask questions of Shepard, show their interest as well. They could do with adding more scenes besides just going to them at their designated spot. Maybe add a few cut scenes as the romance progresses. Shepard sitting in the mess and the LI comes to sit down for a chat, maybe an awkward glance and smile.



Or after a mission ends there is a scene with Shepard on their way to say the CIC and they bump into the Li and engage in a short convo, just to keep things more dynamic. Basically integrate the romance into more than just I come to where you are and we fall in "love", make it more organic.

[Deviija]

*nomnoms Swirly* I feel the same way as you describe in your post. Not that this is surprising.



Hopefully some of the design choices made for the LIs like Garrus and Tali were done to 'test the waters' to see how well the romances would be received and critiqued. In ME3, maybe the continuation of those love plots will be taken to more intimate and bonding levels.

[Llandaryn]

I haven't completed any romance yet, and have only just started on Garrus', and whilst his lines make me chuckle, the PC lines are just so entirely cringe-worthy. Found myself thinking "Oh Shepard, you did not just say that."  Very out of character. Too much, too fast. Went from being neutral to Garrus to suggesting having sex in about 10 seconds. I mean, at least with Jacob, there is some consistancy. My PC, however much I may not want it, flirts with him from the moment I step onboard SR2. The casual-leaning-against-the-table-in-allegedly-sexy-pose, the flirty tone of voice, the facial expressions that make the PC look like she's a couple of hours overdue for a toilet break... I can see right away where it's going. But with Garrus, it's all interesting conversation about Turian military life which I'm totally absorbed in, then BAM, wanting sex.

What? Where did that come from? Something leading up to it might have been nice. Discussion about life, consolation for Kaidan blowing me off on Horizon, reminiscing about the old ship/crew etc. Handled quite badly, I think. Now sure how the romance goes with Jacob, but I hope it's a little smoother than this. I think they got it right with Alistair in DA:O -- lots of conversation, constant teasing, building up tension/expectation, etc.

Haven't picked up Thane yet... might do his romance eventually but not this time around. Want to get to know his character first, take him for a test drive on a few missions, see if his conversation actually makes me chuckle (instead of cringe).

As for differences in physiology/appearance... from what Mordin says about Garrus, sex isn't impossible, just might be uncomfortable for your PC. Face it, Turians have a type of exo-skeleton over their face/body, it's definitely going to be uncomfortable (have to take Mordin up on his offer of ointment). As I haven't picked Thrane up yet I don't know much about the Drell, and have yet to seek Mordin's sage advice on the species... suppose it won't be all that dissimilar to the Tali/Garrus type discussions though.

Appearance wise... I must be strange, but I don't really see my alien crew (so far) as aliens. Just different-looking humans. I guess it's because they possess so many familiar, human-like qualities. Fear, anger, hate, humour, desire. Then again, I think Klingons are an attractive species with a brilliant culture... I sympathise with the alien POV. It's generally more fun than the human one.

[tmp7704]

Llandaryn wrote...

But with Garrus, it's all interesting conversation about Turian military life which I'm totally absorbed in, then BAM, wanting sex.

What? Where did that come from? Something leading up to it might have been nice.

It can sort of work depending on timing -- the way it happened in my playthrough i had Shepard being friends with Garrus, when after a mission out of the blue Mordin gave her "sorry not interested" speech. Had Shepard laugh it off but then when she went to Garrus it just happened he'd bring up that stress/tiebreaker thing. And with Mordin's talk of cross-species relationships fresh in mind it kind of made sense to actually think of that route -- it felt that, much like Garrus himself, Shepard wouldn't really consider that if the idea wasn't planted by a third party. But when it was then it became a "uhmm wait a minute but why the heck not, really. It's Garrus" thought.

[KalliChan07]

Since when did this thread become popular?

I've seen a few posts about 'cupping balls' and 'stroking.'

Please keep it civil.  I made this thread solely on the basis of equality.  I never specifically asked for pornographic scenes.  I supported equality amongst female and male players.

Many of my posts here clearly stated that simply a bit more sweet conversation, or perhaps him carrying her off to bed (which I could see Garrus doing after FemShep soothes him out of his awkwardness) would've been totally worth it.

Modifié par KalliChan07, 07 février 2010 - 12:49 .

[Naltair]

KalliChan07 wrote...



Since when did this thread become popular?

I've seen a few posts about 'cupping balls' and 'stroking.'

Please keep it civil.  I made this thread solely on the basis of equality.  I never supported pornographic scenes.  I supported equality amongst female and male players.

Many of my posts here clearly stated that simply a bit more sweet conversation, or perhaps him carrying her off to bed (which I could see Garrus doing after FemShep soothes him out of his awkwardness) would've been totally worth it.

I actually think there should just be more conversation and more intimate scenes not so much just sex or physical relations.  But stuff that deepens the relationship but keep it optional since not everyone may want to do that.  Almost an interrupt but not many or have the scene start but if you just want to do something esle have the option to say maybe later I am busy.

[lyssalu]

 garrus doesnt have LIPS:whistle: