101 réponses à ce sujet

[Rendar666]

To be honest, who actually just LOVED combat last game? I would ALWAYS play in casual so I could just get the story and slaughter the enemy really fast. The parts that I enjoyed the best are better than ever. Who cares what they do with the combat anyway? It's pretty fun but it isn't my favorite part, no was it ever. They simply made it better.



The Cain is monstrous. I'm talking === Killed myself from thirty something feet away when shooting at geth.... It wastes ammo though. Don't use it.

[jpetrey123]

Orogenic wrote...

Godzilla vs Xenu wrote...

Totally disagree, OP. But I see no point in debating it at this point. Those with negative reactions to the game have had a very, very vocal voice in this forum and to me it's quite enough already. The only thing I will say is that as a long, long time gamer (I had the christmas release of the home version of pong as a kid, later dove in with the Sierra games like Roger Wilco) who had a chance to go in to the gaming industry but opted for film/music instead, I have not regretted my decision, because, in my opinion, gamers are THE most whiny, complaining bunch in general and I couldn't deal with them. I can't think of any industry that inspires more hate and whinging.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.  Let us know when you are put in charge of the universe... at that point you can tell us all to be quiet and you won't have to listen to anyone's ideas that you don't agree with.

nuff said...godzilla your so right

[Godzilla vs Xenu]

Orogenic wrote...

Godzilla vs Xenu wrote...

Totally disagree, OP. But I see no point in debating it at this point. Those with negative reactions to the game have had a very, very vocal voice in this forum and to me it's quite enough already. The only thing I will say is that as a long, long time gamer (I had the christmas release of the home version of pong as a kid, later dove in with the Sierra games like Roger Wilco) who had a chance to go in to the gaming industry but opted for film/music instead, I have not regretted my decision, because, in my opinion, gamers are THE most whiny, complaining bunch in general and I couldn't deal with them. I can't think of any industry that inspires more hate and whinging.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.  Let us know when you are put in charge of the universe... at that point you can tell us all to be quiet and you won't have to listen to anyone's ideas that you don't agree with.

I don't expect you see the irony in your post. Grow up.

[Grind Axis]

I can see where you're coming from but personally I don't feel that Mass Effect 2 is such a drastic departure from the first one. I can't see the so-called philosophy change you're talking about. Personally, I think it's all a bit blown out of proportion by a very vocal minority. In their defence, EA's marketing campaign didn't help.

If I were you I should atleast rent Mass Effect 2 and see for yourself, you might be pleasantly surprised. If not, there's always Dragon Age (with an expansion and sequel planned).

Modifié par Grind Axis, 29 janvier 2010 - 07:31 .

[Faust1979]

I don't think it is a sign of things to come Mass Effect has always meant to be like this. It's a sci fi action roleplaying game, your character is military so it makes sense that it will be high on action it is still very much a roleplaying game with the way you guide your characters through cut scenes and doing paragon/renegade options and how you deal with characters. It is still very much a pure RPG.



At one point turn based action was the best way to go because it was the easiest way to program and have a group of characters fighting on screen at once. But now with new hardware it's easier to program and make the fights more intense. Instead of all the enemies and good guys just standing infront of each other and taking turns you can guide your characters where you want in the room. It doesn't really make any sense to have all the characters on the screen and not being able to move around and if they made it turn based it would be very boring combat. It would be like playing breach on the Amiga but with better graphics

[Gatt9]

jpetrey123 wrote...

Bercilak de Hautdesert wrote...

Orogenic wrote...

dimi-

Great post. Absolutely stellar, and I agree 100%.

Interesting note- I quit playing Dragon Age after a couple hours because the gore was just ridiculous (I work in an ER in real life and really don't need to be reminded). Might go back and look at the game again knowing that I can turn that crap off. Well maybe... god I hate games with swords and elves... that's why Mass Effect was so special for me.

Ha, two other points of agreement, I see.  : )  I agree with you (and the OP) and I also hate games with swords and elves (and hairy midgets--there, I said it--lol) but I decided to get DA:O because of my past experience with Bioware's games.  Other than the ridiculous gore, I found it extremely engaging (but skip the DLC--it is absolutely not worth the money) and very satisfying to conclude.  I would strongly suggest you give it a go with the gore turned down/off.

That said, I suspect that we can expect fewer games that will focus more on character interaction and story than they do on shooting and fetch-quests--a shame, really.  On a related note, I should've known to be skeptical of ME2 when I kept seeing the phrase, "emotionally engaging" being used by Ray Muzyka of Bioware.  Methinks he doth protest too much--and I'm not the only one, take a look at this article on Kotaku:

http://kotaku.com/54...onally-engaging

To the OP: thanks for your post.  I found much in it that I agree with and I sympathize.

thats the thing this game is not targeted at the "RPG purists" that love crunching numbers, and gathering loot call the "almighty stick of slaying wonderfullness" this game is targeted to people who love to wrapped in a splendid story, and have amazing gameplay. I hardly use my gun really, i  uee biotic, and tech abilities quite a bit.

You're not really trying to sell a extremely standard shooter as "Amazing gameplay" are you?  Honestly?  The AI is horrible as far as shooters go,  and that's pretty much all there is to it.  Playing an extremely mediocre shooter punctuated by story and dialogue that are so inconsistent one has to wonder if the team members talked at all while writing.

Like I said in another thread,  last night I looted two apartments,  one in front of it's owners.  I then chastized people for looting apartments. 

"I don't like people who loot the dead!"
(Never mind I've been doing it)

...And that was a "High road" option.

I'm *really* not sure who this game is targetted at.  I can say the OP's right.

I can also say that if one does some googling,  one will find the reasons why ME2 has gotten good reviews.  Hint:  Start by googling Gamespot + Controversy.  It's pretty easy to figure out the scores after that.

[Raydiate]

Orogenic wrote...

Godzilla vs Xenu wrote...

Totally disagree, OP. But I see no point in debating it at this point. Those with negative reactions to the game have had a very, very vocal voice in this forum and to me it's quite enough already. The only thing I will say is that as a long, long time gamer (I had the christmas release of the home version of pong as a kid, later dove in with the Sierra games like Roger Wilco) who had a chance to go in to the gaming industry but opted for film/music instead, I have not regretted my decision, because, in my opinion, gamers are THE most whiny, complaining bunch in general and I couldn't deal with them. I can't think of any industry that inspires more hate and whinging.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.  Let us know when you are put in charge of the universe... at that point you can tell us all to be quiet and you won't have to listen to anyone's ideas that you don't agree with.

Man...you are such a hypocrit. And at your previous post directed at me. I am only respectful to people deserving of my respect, I decide who I respect not you and seeing as how this is part of my opnion maybe you should respect that hmm?

[elijah_kaine]

Gatt9 wrote...
I can also say that if one does some googling,  one will find the reasons why ME2 has gotten good reviews.  Hint:  Start by googling Gamespot + Controversy.  It's pretty easy to figure out the scores after that.

Forgive me for questioning your logic here but are you insinuating that EA/Bioware paid off over 20 review sites for good reviews? Are you insinuating that because Mass Effect is advertised heavly that professional game reviews didn't actually play the games and gave it a good score? I suppose that every game that Bioware's made has gotten good scores because of paying people off, is that what your saying? Or is it that any game that you don't agree with the changes on that is made by Bioware only got good reviews becaue they paid reviewers off? 

I suppose anyone on here who says they like and appreciate the changes couldn't possibly really think of that. They must be paid word of mouth adverstisers, right?  Because really, what's more likely, that more people like the changes then don't or that most people are being paid to not agree with those who don't like the changes? 

Modifié par elijah_kaine, 29 janvier 2010 - 08:02 .

[Orogenic]

Raydiate wrote...

Orogenic wrote...

Godzilla vs Xenu wrote...

Totally disagree, OP. But I see no point in debating it at this point. Those with negative reactions to the game have had a very, very vocal voice in this forum and to me it's quite enough already. The only thing I will say is that as a long, long time gamer (I had the christmas release of the home version of pong as a kid, later dove in with the Sierra games like Roger Wilco) who had a chance to go in to the gaming industry but opted for film/music instead, I have not regretted my decision, because, in my opinion, gamers are THE most whiny, complaining bunch in general and I couldn't deal with them. I can't think of any industry that inspires more hate and whinging.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.  Let us know when you are put in charge of the universe... at that point you can tell us all to be quiet and you won't have to listen to anyone's ideas that you don't agree with.

Man...you are such a hypocrit. And at your previous post directed at me. I am only respectful to people deserving of my respect, I decide who I respect not you and seeing as how this is part of my opnion maybe you should respect that hmm?

Hypocrite?? All I've asked is for people to stop telling others to be quiet...

Please refer to the line in Godzilla's post that says "... quite enough already."

Neither he nor you (nor I!) have the right to tell ANYONE to be quiet... is that simple enough for you to understand??

[Godzilla vs Xenu]

Orogenic wrote...

Raydiate wrote...

Orogenic wrote...

Godzilla vs Xenu wrote...

Totally disagree, OP. But I see no point in debating it at this point. Those with negative reactions to the game have had a very, very vocal voice in this forum and to me it's quite enough already. The only thing I will say is that as a long, long time gamer (I had the christmas release of the home version of pong as a kid, later dove in with the Sierra games like Roger Wilco) who had a chance to go in to the gaming industry but opted for film/music instead, I have not regretted my decision, because, in my opinion, gamers are THE most whiny, complaining bunch in general and I couldn't deal with them. I can't think of any industry that inspires more hate and whinging.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.  Let us know when you are put in charge of the universe... at that point you can tell us all to be quiet and you won't have to listen to anyone's ideas that you don't agree with.

Man...you are such a hypocrit. And at your previous post directed at me. I am only respectful to people deserving of my respect, I decide who I respect not you and seeing as how this is part of my opnion maybe you should respect that hmm?

Hypocrite?? All I've asked is for people to stop telling others to be quiet...

Please refer to the line in Godzilla's post that says "... quite enough already."

Neither he nor you (nor I!) have the right to tell ANYONE to be quiet... is that simple enough for you to understand??

And what part of "to me" do you not understand? Can you please explain how what I wrote, which is so clearly denoted as OPINION, constitutes telling anyone to be quiet? I'd love to read it. You really need to stop embarassing yourself.

[Raydiate]

Orogenic wrote...

Raydiate wrote...

Orogenic wrote...

Godzilla vs Xenu wrote...

Totally disagree, OP. But I see no point in debating it at this point. Those with negative reactions to the game have had a very, very vocal voice in this forum and to me it's quite enough already. The only thing I will say is that as a long, long time gamer (I had the christmas release of the home version of pong as a kid, later dove in with the Sierra games like Roger Wilco) who had a chance to go in to the gaming industry but opted for film/music instead, I have not regretted my decision, because, in my opinion, gamers are THE most whiny, complaining bunch in general and I couldn't deal with them. I can't think of any industry that inspires more hate and whinging.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.  Let us know when you are put in charge of the universe... at that point you can tell us all to be quiet and you won't have to listen to anyone's ideas that you don't agree with.

Man...you are such a hypocrit. And at your previous post directed at me. I am only respectful to people deserving of my respect, I decide who I respect not you and seeing as how this is part of my opnion maybe you should respect that hmm?

Hypocrite?? All I've asked is for people to stop telling others to be quiet...

Please refer to the line in Godzilla's post that says "... quite enough already."

Neither he nor you (nor I!) have the right to tell ANYONE to be quiet... is that simple enough for you to understand??

You cannot be serious. Quite and quiet are not the same thing sheesh. Also just so you know the Mods can "quiet" us so your point is moot. For more information go here. Godzilla vs Xenu stated that he disagreed but did not want to argue the subject due to the fact that there was already enough flaming going on in this forum. He then ventured his person OPNION that the video game industry spawns the most hate and whining. You seem to have forgotten to respect that though. So I again say you are a hypocrit.

[Orogenic]

Godzilla vs Xenu wrote...

Orogenic wrote...

Godzilla vs Xenu wrote...

Totally disagree, OP. But I see no point in debating it at this point. Those with negative reactions to the game have had a very, very vocal voice in this forum and to me it's quite enough already. The only thing I will say is that as a long, long time gamer (I had the christmas release of the home version of pong as a kid, later dove in with the Sierra games like Roger Wilco) who had a chance to go in to the gaming industry but opted for film/music instead, I have not regretted my decision, because, in my opinion, gamers are THE most whiny, complaining bunch in general and I couldn't deal with them. I can't think of any industry that inspires more hate and whinging.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.  Let us know when you are put in charge of the universe... at that point you can tell us all to be quiet and you won't have to listen to anyone's ideas that you don't agree with.

I don't expect you see the irony in your post. Grow up.

Why don't you explain the irony to me?

The only thing I take issue with is your unbelievably self-righteous statement that there has been "quite enough" negative discussion here.

You sound like a parent talking to a 3 year old.

So I say again, when you are placed in charge of the universe and have the authority to say "enough is enough" to everyone, please let us know so we can obey.

[Orogenic]

Raydiate wrote...

Orogenic wrote...

Raydiate wrote...

Orogenic wrote...

Godzilla vs Xenu wrote...

Totally disagree, OP. But I see no point in debating it at this point. Those with negative reactions to the game have had a very, very vocal voice in this forum and to me it's quite enough already. The only thing I will say is that as a long, long time gamer (I had the christmas release of the home version of pong as a kid, later dove in with the Sierra games like Roger Wilco) who had a chance to go in to the gaming industry but opted for film/music instead, I have not regretted my decision, because, in my opinion, gamers are THE most whiny, complaining bunch in general and I couldn't deal with them. I can't think of any industry that inspires more hate and whinging.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.  Let us know when you are put in charge of the universe... at that point you can tell us all to be quiet and you won't have to listen to anyone's ideas that you don't agree with.

Man...you are such a hypocrit. And at your previous post directed at me. I am only respectful to people deserving of my respect, I decide who I respect not you and seeing as how this is part of my opnion maybe you should respect that hmm?

Hypocrite?? All I've asked is for people to stop telling others to be quiet...

Please refer to the line in Godzilla's post that says "... quite enough already."

Neither he nor you (nor I!) have the right to tell ANYONE to be quiet... is that simple enough for you to understand??

You cannot be serious. Quite and quiet are not the same thing sheesh. Also just so you know the Mods can "quiet" us so your point is moot. For more information go here. Godzilla vs Xenu stated that he disagreed but did not want to argue the subject due to the fact that there was already enough flaming going on in this forum. He then ventured his person OPNION that the video game industry spawns the most hate and whining. You seem to have forgotten to respect that though. So I again say you are a hypocrit.

I'm sorry I confused you by using the words "quiet" and "quite" in the same paragraph.  I said exactly what I meant to say.  Actually I'm starting to feel a little sorry for you so why don't we let this be.

[Bigeyez]

Nice to see that this thread has basically turned into an epeen contest. Good Job! /thread

[Raydiate]

Orogenic wrote...

Raydiate wrote...

Orogenic wrote...

Raydiate wrote...

Orogenic wrote...

Godzilla vs Xenu wrote...

Totally disagree, OP. But I see no point in debating it at this point. Those with negative reactions to the game have had a very, very vocal voice in this forum and to me it's quite enough already. The only thing I will say is that as a long, long time gamer (I had the christmas release of the home version of pong as a kid, later dove in with the Sierra games like Roger Wilco) who had a chance to go in to the gaming industry but opted for film/music instead, I have not regretted my decision, because, in my opinion, gamers are THE most whiny, complaining bunch in general and I couldn't deal with them. I can't think of any industry that inspires more hate and whinging.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.  Let us know when you are put in charge of the universe... at that point you can tell us all to be quiet and you won't have to listen to anyone's ideas that you don't agree with.

Man...you are such a hypocrit. And at your previous post directed at me. I am only respectful to people deserving of my respect, I decide who I respect not you and seeing as how this is part of my opnion maybe you should respect that hmm?

Hypocrite?? All I've asked is for people to stop telling others to be quiet...

Please refer to the line in Godzilla's post that says "... quite enough already."

Neither he nor you (nor I!) have the right to tell ANYONE to be quiet... is that simple enough for you to understand??

You cannot be serious. Quite and quiet are not the same thing sheesh. Also just so you know the Mods can "quiet" us so your point is moot. For more information go here. Godzilla vs Xenu stated that he disagreed but did not want to argue the subject due to the fact that there was already enough flaming going on in this forum. He then ventured his person OPNION that the video game industry spawns the most hate and whining. You seem to have forgotten to respect that though. So I again say you are a hypocrit.

I'm sorry I confused you by using the words "quiet" and "quite" in the same paragraph.  I said exactly what I meant to say.  Actually I'm starting to feel a little sorry for you so why don't we let this be.

I see, I declare myself the winner then. Have a good day sir...and don't let the door hit your way out!

[Godzilla vs Xenu]

Orogenic wrote...

You sound like a parent talking to a 3 year old.

So I say again, when you are placed in charge of the universe and have the authority to say "enough is enough" to everyone, please let us know so we can obey.

You are expressing yourself like a three year old, so I can understand your confusion. Seriously, I can't be bothered with you any more - it's like conversing with an especially stubborn block of wood.

[Orogenic]

Bigeyez wrote...

Nice to see that this thread has basically turned into an epeen contest. Good Job! /thread

It is sad, but I'm not going to back down from these folks that think anyone that disagrees with them needs to shut up and go away.  Common courtesy and free speech both deserve a reasonable defense.

Modifié par Orogenic, 29 janvier 2010 - 08:27 .

[jpetrey123]

ive already said this once today. WHILE SOME OF YOU DO HAVE VALID POINTS if you continue to repeat yourself over and over and over again people are going to want to throw you out the window. nobody wants to listen to "are we there yet?" 80 times nor does anybody like to hear "i dont like this game because dadadadada" it is the same things over and over again. we have heard your complaints. please stop

[Mezinger]

Rendar666 wrote...

To be honest, who actually just LOVED combat last game? I would ALWAYS play in casual so I could just get the story and slaughter the enemy really fast. The parts that I enjoyed the best are better than ever. Who cares what they do with the combat anyway? It's pretty fun but it isn't my favorite part, no was it ever. They simply made it better.

The Cain is monstrous. I'm talking === Killed myself from thirty something feet away when shooting at geth.... It wastes ammo though. Don't use it.

I loved it... played insanity with a new 1st level soldier again and again... great combat... 

Oh and it's not so much as stagnation so much as a step backward.

Modifié par Mezinger, 30 janvier 2010 - 04:38 .

[DoctorPringles]

I'm not sure where people are getting that this game has a worse rpg-element than the previous. From what I've played so far, and I'm running on 25+ hours atm, the story is absolutely fantastic. I feel much closer to the NPC's, all them, not just my party members, than I ever did in the first game. The main storyline is also impressive, and I honestly feel like I'm reading most of this out of a good book.



I whole-heartedly believe they found a perfect balance between combat-shooters and storyline-rpg's.

[ThePilgrim101]

Oh..



So, Shephard shouldn't diffuse certain situations with violence?



I understand your concerns. It just seems a tad overzealous to be upset with Forum Members who want things.



That's the cycle. Forum Members beg, Developers adapt the idea to how it will fit their design. Forum Members whine and beg some more.



Mass Effect was BioWare's attempt at creating an enjoyable, successful hybrid. While I agree with you that many elements have been simplified for the sequel, I have to say that this is not an entirely bad thing. *Not* worrying about each power individually and not having to select the power wheel for every ability is a bit of a bonus. Likewise, simplifying how points are allocated to powers just allows players to choose which points they use carefully and structure leveling around content and depth, as opposed to simply having gamers crunch playthrough after playthrough to get their final level.



Plus, I have Inferno Ammo. Who doesn't enjoy using Inferno ammo? It just has a nice ring to it.



Truly, I believe BioWare expanded on their ideas and pulled it off nicely. Does the full experience basically require you to place Mass Effect 1? Yes but it's a great price to pay for an amazingly customized experience.



And that's the best part. Customized.

[dimidimidimi]

JohnShepard12 wrote...

If you haven't gotten the game you should at least rent it. The combat is fun, but I'm a story person myself and I usually rushed through the combat in ME 1. The story here is still rich and intriguing.

I might buy the game at a much later stage when the price drops dramatically or I might borrow it from a friend. I did so with other shooters. I'm not giving 40 euros for a shooter though. And to be honest I'd still feel bad giving 10 euros to bioware for ME2, not because it's not a good game, for a shooter it might be a great one, but because they ruined a great series that was unique in a lot of ways by turning it into another usual shooter.

Brenn86 wrote...

You are in a vocal minority. I hate to say it but the sales numbers speak for themselves.

So to them, if it sells and it isn't broke. Don't fix it, improve upon it.

While you may feel this 'streamlined combat' is a bad thing it allows for the story to flow better/faster instead of combat taking up far too much time.

Yes the character skill RPG elements were toned down and simplified but they're still there.

Whether I'm in a vocal minority or not is not something that can be estimated. First of all, let me just say that reviews and forum opinions are not much reliable nowdays when everyone knows that review grades are directly affected by advertising money and that there are jobs for "forum boosters", that is people who are paid to populate forums, post repetitively to make the forums seem vibrant and busy and promote a product/service related to the forum.

The press claims that ME2 has sold 2 million copies so far. Are you really aware of the opinions of all those 2 million people that bought the game? How many of those 2 million bought the game because they loved ME1? Furthermore the fact that something sells well does not necessarily make it a quality product. If a Britney Spears or Lady Gaga album sells millions of copies, does that make it a quality product? 

You say that the story now flows faster instead of combat taking too much time. So what do you do the rest of the time when you're not in combat? Because from what I've read and seen so far, it seems to me that exploration and inventory/stats management has been eliminated down to the very minimum, and the only thing left to do is to fight and talk. Correct me if I am wrong.

Sashem wrote...
I'm with you on this but Mass Effect was always a console title first, and console title are aimed at the console crowd, so it need to be a little more simplistic and more "shoot everything" and "download more DLC".

ME1 was also a console title but it wasn't as dumbed down as this. Dragon Age is also a console title but it's not dumbed down either.

Valmy wrote...

Maybe I am playing a different game here. How is ME2 more combat intensive than ME1? I mean maybe my memory was bad but I fought all the time in ME1. Then there was dialog with NPCs and plot exposition and down time back at the ship to handle inventory and talk to my crew and companions. I do the exact same thing in ME2...the exact same freaking thing. How is there MORE combat? Do you have any data to support this entirely subjective and in my experience false conclusion?

The companions still have great dialog, the combat is still fun if different, and the plot is still fun and engaging. What has changed exactly? It is like if somebody changed the color of the tile on the floor of your bathroom and you suddenly declare it is no longer a bathroom.

Where exactly is the lack of RPG elements? Yes the inventory is handled a bit differently...yes the leveling system is a bit simplified...but these are not major changes to me. I can see perhaps you might be in favor of going to a system with more choices but...really? Suddenly this is a dramatic turn? It is not that I disagree with the criticisms people have laid at ME2 it just they are vague, make no sense, or are blatantly false and seem to be based on perception and marketing and prejudice rather than actual experience with the product.

Valmy first of all let me tell you that I haven't bought the game. I usually do my research before spending 40 euros on a game. I watch gameplay videos, I read previews/interviews and eventually I read reviews and other people's opinions. First of all, I'm not interested in the RPG label. I don't care what you call it. What I do care about is that I don't spend my gameplay time on solely 2 activities... shooting and talking.

So although I haven't played the game I read that

1) they took away sole planet exploration using the Mako. That's something I enjoyed in the first game. Driving around a planet, not knowing what I'm going to find with my Mako, looking at the beautiful vistas.

2) they took away the elevator scenes. These were also some of my favourite moments in ME1, listening to smalltalk by other party members made the characters look more interesting and it gave the game a more realistic feeling. Rising up to the citadel tower before meeting the council made me ponder about the things that took place so far and what's coming up ahead. Just like you would do in real life before an important meeting, while being in an elevator. And also listening to the radio talk about important events in the galaxy and mentioning your deeds made it seem like you're doing something important.

3) they reduced stats and inventory management to a minimum. I know that some people just want to shoot and watch cutscenes but I enjoy making decisions that will affect the gameplay one way or another. I liked these small details such as choosing what stat of Shepard I'll increase in order to make him a more efficient soldier , what rounds to equip my gun with, to have enough medi gel in order to be able to heal myself etc, etc.

4) They made the game "go from point A to point B and shoot everything in between". I loved the non-linear fashion of ME1 and being able to explore for some minutes without having to fight all the time.

To some people more fighting and less time between fighting might seem as "more intense, darker tone, faster pace" bla bla bla. To me it just seems dull and unrealistic. Having enough time to do non-combat activities between combat makes me think more about the storyline, it makes me appreciate more the gameworld and the creatures that inhabit it. And it also makes the moments of combat more intense as they feel more special, instead of being in combat all the time.

Modifié par dimidimidimi, 02 février 2010 - 09:09 .

[dimidimidimi]

Bigeyez wrote...



Funny how improving upon systems and changing things is called stagnation. Stagnation to me would mean staying with the same broken inventory system and keeping the useless pre-requisite skills.

I never said that the inventory system and the effect of your skills in the game should have remained exactly the same. Improving is one thing, removing them is another. I would be all for creating a much better inventory system and making skills more important.

Zynnix wrote...



Bioware has made a turn? Because they're only allowed to make RPG's right? god forbid they make another kind of game. And FYI ME2 is still very much an RPG. The inventory is streamlined, the combat is better.... this doesn't mean its not an RPG. You still get those wonderful grey-area decisions to make that you'd expect from a Bioware game. You still level up and gain experience, and put points into skills, you can customize your armor and upgrade your weapons, and each of your companions has an interesting back story.

Sorry Bioware didn't make YOUR game, but don't accuse them of ruining anything. ME2 is better in every way than ME1, so either shut up and go away, or believe me and play it through.

First of all I apologize but I won't shut up and go away because your highness orders me to do so. No I never said that Bioware is only allowed to make RPGs. Please answer me though, are game companies only allowed to make shooters? Because that seems to be the publishers' dogma. So this is my problem mr "shut up and go away":



Mass Effect 1 was an extraordinary title. We had many succesful RPGs in recent gaming history such as Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age: Origins, The Witcher, Oblivion, etc, etc. Tell me though, what do all these games have in common? They're all set in a fantasy world. Mass Effect 1 was the first sci-fi RPG in a LONG TIME. It wasn't the first sci-fi game. We've had plenty of succesful sci-fi shooters (Half Life 2, Dead Space, Bioshock, Halo). But it was the only sci-fi RPG around. ME1 featured such a deep storyline, with characters that you cared for and dialogues that made you think, the exploration aspect was really well done and it made you want to replay the game over and over again. Tell me one other game in the history of gaming that was similar to Mass Effect 1. I can think of none.



And then Bioware (or EA) decide to turn an extraordinary title into something usual that's been done before. They stripped everything down to just shooting and talking. Yes Dead Space also has weapon and armor upgrades, so does Bioshock, and all those sci-fi shooters also have stories and dialogues. It doesn't make them anything like ME1 used to be.

Orogenic wrote...



dimi-



Great post. Absolutely stellar, and I agree 100%.



Interesting note- I quit playing Dragon Age after a couple hours because the gore was just ridiculous (I work in an ER in real life and really don't need to be reminded). Might go back and look at the game again knowing that I can turn that crap off. Well maybe... god I hate games with swords and elves... that's why Mass Effect was so special for me.

You should really give it another try. Yes the gore was awful, but it's easy to turn off in options. But gameplay wise, Dragon Age is everything Mass Effect 2 should have been.

geekeffect wrote...



Hey dimidimidimi, interesting post.

I'm a bit sorry to read some of the reactions. I think you’re raising some compelling arguments and they deserve to be debated. Now, I do believe you’re being too extreme on your analysis; the end of Bioware thing (I know you’re not actually saying that, but it kind’a sounds like it).

So, where to start. First, let me share this kind of internal debate I have. About the concept of “the perfect game”.

As many of you, I do believe games are an art form. An evolving art form, and probably the one with the highest rate of creative innovation. And we are now reaching a point where technology is starting to support complex narratives. Still, there has never been a perfect game. We’re getting close, but we’re still waiting for The Godfather of videogames, you know what I’m saying.

The Mass Effect series, in my regard, really pushed the boundaries of dynamic storytelling as no other game before. And it is defining a wonderful sci-fi mythology, charismatic characters, a story you really care about in a world you want to be a part of. I have to commend Bioware for that.

Having said that, I think some of your ideas are actually pretty good, and you’re right to feel disappointed. I mean, I think you have a right to feel disappointed. But I also think that it would be very sad that such disappointment would make you blind to the incredible achievements the game also has to offer.

In the evolving world of videogame creation, I hope Bioware will continue to listen to their supporters, as in the past. And that they learn from their mistakes and keep evolving. So I can’t help feeling very optimistic about the future, and wonder about the great things Mass Effect 3 may bring.

There are a lot of things wrong with the world today. Videogames, I’m happy to say, aren’t one of those things.

Best regards.

Geekeffect first of all let me say that this was a very well written post, one that makes me glad to reply to. I agree with you that games are an evolving art form. I do think however that the technology has been able to support complex narratives for over 20 years now, most of them members of the adventure game genre. Even during the 90s, we had games with engrossing storylines such as the Gabriel Knight series, The Dig, Baldur's Gate, Sanitarium, Planescape Torment and The Longest Journey.



However, as the game medium was not considered to be a storytelling medium at the time, most of these games were not the kind of games that made millions of dollars (with maybe Baldur's Gate as the exception). Shooters on the other hand, such as doom, quake and half-life, were bringing in lots of cash from all over the world. As game development became more and more expensive the game industry shifted more and more towards shooters.



Now developers of shooters and action games, in an attempt to make their own action game different from the action game next door, have added some RPG elements into their games such as character levelling, weapon and armor upgrades, dialogues, quests/objectives. The most recent examples of this being Batman: Arkham Asylum - great game by the way - Bioshock and Dead Space.



It is disheartening to see that Bioware decide to take out some RPG elements and add more combat in the ME series. If all developers release games that are shooters with RPG elements, then soon we will have a very narrow spectrum of gameplay elements. It's disappointing to see developers copy each other based on sales and following trends. For instance, whenever I listen to audio tapes in games I start feeling bored, as I've listened to audio tapes in so many games recently (fallout 3, dead space, bioshock), it has become some sort of gameplay cliche.



Anyway, all I mean to say is that my disappointment stems from the transition of an extraordinary unique title such as Mass Effect into something usual, ordinary and "trendy" such as Mass Effect 2.



I'll reply to the rest of the posts when I find more time.

[Veex]

dimidimidimi wrote...

And to be honest I'd still feel bad
giving 10 euros to bioware for ME2, not because it's not a good game,
for a shooter it might be a great one, but because they ruined an RPG
series.

I'm not really sure, without playing the game for yourself, that you're qualified to make this statement.

I have no problem with anything you've said thus far, and I understand
some of your concerns, but to claim they ruined an RPG series without
ever laying hands on it is simply irresponsible and disingenious.

dimidimidimi wrote...

So although I haven't played the game I read that

1) they took away sole planet exploration using the Mako. That's something I enjoyed in the first game. Driving around a planet, not knowing what I'm going to find with my Mako, looking at the beautiful vistas.

2) they took away the elevator scenes. These were also some of my favourite moments in ME1, listening to smalltalk by other party members made the characters look more interesting and it gave the game a more realistic feeling. Rising up to the citadel tower before meeting the council made me ponder about the things that took place so far and what's coming up ahead. Just like you would do in real life before an important meeting, while being in an elevator. And also listening to the radio talk about important events in the galaxy and mentioning your deeds made it seem like you're doing something important.

3) they reduced stats and inventory management to a minimum. I know that some people just want to shoot and watch cutscenes but I enjoy making decisions that will affect the gameplay one way or another. I liked these small details such as choosing what stat of Shepard I'll increase in order to make him a more efficient soldier , what rounds to equip my gun with, to have enough medi gel in order to be able to heal myself etc, etc.

4) They made the game "go from point A to point B and shoot everything in between". I loved the non-linear fashion of ME1 and being able to explore for some minutes without having to fight all the time.

To some people more fighting and less time between fighting might seem as "more intense, darker tone, faster pace" bla bla bla. To me it just seems dull and unrealistic. Having enough time to do non-combat activities between combat makes me think more about the storyline, it makes me appreciate more the gameworld and the creatures that inhabit it. And it also makes the moments of combat more intense as they feel more special, instead of being in combat all the time.

1. While they did remove the Mako-style missions they do have plans to insert a "Hammerhead" DLC that should give a similar experience in the future. If you purchase the game new that DLC is free content. The side missions that they have created are, in my opinion, more diverse both visually and contextually in the sequall. If you pay attention to the detail of these side missions, as you seem to be a fan of doing, you'll follow some coherent and interesting story lines which are similar to Mass Effect.

2. I also liked the elevator scenes. I personally think that the banter between squadmates and occasional news given on those elevator rides was a nice touch to the experience. I do understand why so many complained so loudly about the feature however, as they were a predetermined length regardless of your hardware. The loading screens in Mass Effect 2 (at least on the PC) are extremely short in almost all instances.

3. While the inventory has been reduced I also think it has been refocused. Indeed you will not be worried about stacking omni gel or selling copious amounts of wasted loot but you do still make skill point allocations that will affect your gameplay and there are still inventory choices to be made that will effect the way you play also.

4. I'm not really sure what you mean in regards to the exploration aspect. The only thing BioWare has removed is the Mako missions in that regard. There really isn't a difference in the presentation of levels and you're not forced into combat in any disimilar way than you were in the original Mass Effect. There are still city locations to explore which are more diverse in feeling than the Citadel alone was.

You are not in combat all the time in Mass Effect 2. You can choose to wander and revisit several locations if you care to. There are great moments to be heard and had around the entire scope of the game if you care to stop and listen. In my opinion the ratio of combat to story is not dismilar from the original, the only major differences are in the inventory system and lack of Mako driving.

I'll echo what others have said in that you should at least rent the game and experience some of it before you try and say that it ruined an RPG series. I loved the original Mass Effect and I am very happy with the changes made in the sequel.

Modifié par Veex, 02 février 2010 - 09:18 .

[Rilke21]

For what it's worth, Dimi, I agree with you completely.