9 réponses à ce sujet

[Drwhy]

I just finished the game for the 5th or 6th time now as a final playthrough to get me ready for the expansion and I thought I would share my ideas on the matter, for those that care.

* Spoilers ahead *

#1) Ultimate Sacrifice

I have been thinking and reading on the forums about this and I am torn. On the one hand I feel if you made the ultimate sacrifice it should stay that way, as they mention in the ending "What is to come is for other heroes the tale of this one is over" or something along those lines. So it makes sense and should stay with you as dead, and having to play another hero.

On the other hand you put a lot of time and effort into this one character, who could essentially be brough back 'ala' Wynne, although he isn't a mage. It would certainly be a more popular choice, but seems less... real. It certainly would be more "story-like" to keep the same character for all 3 games, but realistically choices should matter, and furthermore, I am confident that the Dark Ritual is the #1 path to "complete" the story throughout all games.

#2) For future games, they should add a sense of urgency/doom.

I felt that the game really never made me feel like I had to do anything at any point, it was more of a run around competeling everything, getting rich and buying the best of the best things. It would be great to add Urgency for the main questline, ill explain with examples:

Redcliffe:
If you go here first: The castle is overrun, its your job to gather the townpeople to help you take it back. (The Knights haven't returned from searching the Urn of sacred ashes)
If you go here second-third: Current plot, you arrive with town being attacked and if you leave it gets taken over.
If you go here last: No one is left alive except the main plot characters, its your job to clear the town investigate and then clear the castle.

Circle:
If you go here first: Blood mages are fighting normal mages, top level of tower is beggining to crawl with demons/boss.
If you go here second-third: Current plot, choice between templars and mages.
If you go here last: All mages are dead/converted to demons, you have no choice but to side with templars and clear the tower.

Dalish:
If you go here first: Help defend the village against werewolves and join a hunting party to track and kill them (at which point you come across and talk to them when the rest of the hunting party is "killed"
If you go here second-third: Current plot, explore and decide who to side with.
If you go here last: Werewolves have defeated the majority of the camp, most have fled and moved elsewhere a few remain (Keeper + some others) you can still choose who to side with.

Orzammar:
If you go here first: Old king is in his deathbed, asks you to investigate on both candidates and sends you to find anvil making the council promise to send troops if you prove you found it. Once you arrive he is dead, and feud starts but council agrees to send help. (You dont get to choose a king, you leave and are promised an army regardless of who wins)
If you go here second-third: Current plot, Harrowmont vs Bhelen.
If you go here last: Bhelen has won (since he was more ruthless), and wants to cement his position and win over harrowmont fans via Proving grounds/finding Anvil


Anyways, you get the point. Making the plot line this way, makes it feel like real time affects your decisions. Furthermore, the source of "Doom" should be Villages getting taken over, people dying, calls for help, etc. As it is the only town that gets wiped out is Lothering until the very end. Maybe have certain points in the game where "Big battles" are going to take place between groups of darkspawn and towns that call for your help and you can save them/leave to their fate.

#3) Morrigan

My theory is that this is the main storyline plot, and the one that will lead you to a fullfilling game throughout the trilogy (if they end up making it so). I won't get into it too much because I could write forever on the why, but suffice to say it would provide the most complete storyline. With that said, I think that allowing us to pursue other options (Loghain/Alistair and Ultimate sacrifice) are great ways to let us experience our preffered outcomes but in the end to experience the complete story with all its twists and turns we must succum to the dark world that is Dragon age and experience the ups and downs of trusting Morrigan pushing the story forward.

Furthermore, I dont understand the complaints on Awakening not having Morrigan, I feel the expansion is a time to re-build the wardens and allow for other events to take place before the next "threat". Morrigan could be mentioned but I feel as the main antagonist she should be left for main titles only.

#4) Alistair as DPS

Just having finished another nightmare playthrough it was the first time I attempted to make alistair a main member of my party as DPS. Since I wanted to do a "Good" playthrough with me as a tank (my favorite). I found out that making alistair a Duel wield warrior with stacked Dex was ridiculously overpowered. I made him essentially an awesome templar, anything that had mana would get destroyed within seconds, because of his ability to attack really fast, and drain mana in the process (without even including his templar abilities). So if anyone out there is looking for a good DPS alistair build, I highly recommend Dual wield (I didnt use res-spec or any mods). In the end he was quite good.

Thats all for now, ill add more if I have time and people are interested.

Modifié par Drwhy, 29 janvier 2010 - 05:49 .

[Thiefy]

you say it's your final playthrough, but that really remains to be seen since we still have over a month to go .....



bah you know this game is too addictive to stay away from! >____>

[MagiST]

My report on the game is that my brothers enjoyed the origin stories but then lost interest in the game after the long dungeon crawls were introduced. They were constantly losing even after multiple re-rolls and character builds. The dungeons were too long and wore them down mentally. There were no breaks in the middle of these long dungeons to change the atmosphere, all the while they were losing more than winning every encounter. It just became depressing and they stopped playing.



But they did very much enjoy the origins stories. I've thought about their games, you play a human noble and your main story is therefore a story of vengeance and yet Howe is never even noticeabily linked to the other quests (urn quest for instance). Characters can have more than one motivation to enter and finish a long and mentally draining dungeon. My brothers didn't care about the urn of sacred ashes anymore than Sten... they start thinking... "why am I even here?" Even if there had been darkspawn, at this early stage my brothers had no motivation to seeking them out and destroy them. Iranicus from BG2 and Kefka from FF6 are one thing but the arch demon didn't do a damn thing wrong to the player.



Some players fought the Ser Kautheren fight over and over again until they won because they were venting their anger from Anora's actions. You don't always need to use anger... you just need to come up with a practical motivation whether its entertainment or guilt, at every stage of the game to drive the player forward. Every single level design should incorporate practical motivations for enduring all of the defeats until the player gets a hang of winning more fights than they lose. They'll quit if they feel it is all not worth it. Role players have to have a dynamic range of motivations across the entire game. This ain't suppose to be like Diablo.

[lqutois]

I really have to disagree MagiST after seeing what they did to duncan and the king I had ample desire to kill every darkspawn I saw..I don't much like final fantasy though being a PC roleplayer.



I really love the OP ideas. It would really add to replay value as well and help make it feel like a living world.

[RangerSG]

I do think the OP's ideas are intriguing. I'm not sure how realistic it is. You're talking about dialoguing 16 different combinations of the midgame to go with the 6 different origins. I think you'd find a lot of game end up on the cutting-room floor (ala The Sith Lords) and have a game with a lot of promise, but ultimately much gnashing of teeth. That's not to mention all the additional bug-testing that all those different options would necessitate.



They've already said if you made the sacrifice, you're a Warden from Orlais rebuilding the Ferelden order. They sent Duncan over to do that. They sent Riordin across to check on things. It's entirely logical a Warden from Orlais would cross over. I think that's a perfectly viable option for the "sacrifice" character's game. I know I like Solona, but I don't want her "brought back" even if she is a mage. She belongs with the other Blight-Quellers in Weisshaupt.



On Morrigan, I agree. Her story is set up for the sequel. It's only logical she disappear wherever she goes to bear the child.



On Alistair as a dual-wielding DPS, I agree. I've specced him that way before too. Chop livers everything. The shield talents are actually useful in the early game because that's when dual-wield warriors often take it on the chin. And I don't like using the respec mod. I might consider a no-auto-level mod in the future. But the characters are specced as they are for story purposes, and I don't like changing them.

[MagiST]

Iquois.. I felt the same way you did, and when I watched my bros play, they felt the same way... and then they just quit. I played it all the way through. The thing is my bros quit both BG2 and Neverwinter in the same way. I wanted them to like DA. But the game after Ostagar seemed too emotionally distant from what happened before for some people. I just can't fully understand how other players such as my bros just quit. It's a very important matter in game design. What I can see is that they couldn't win enough with their character builds and play style, and then there's the very long dungeon crawl where one of my bros just decided he wasn't gonna do it again... it just wasn't worth it.



But back in the BG2 and NWN days there was the possibility of multi player co-op. Which is too fun.... sadly not everyone has the time to finish those games together. If you and your buddies were able to finish those campaigns in co-op together... I envy you. Tell me all about it and let Bioware know about it.

[Drwhy]

RangerSG: Glad to hear about the ultimate sacrifice outcome.



Thanks for the support on the "real world" decisions.

[RobinMichelleB]

Furthermore, I dont understand the complaints on Awakening not having Morrigan, I feel the expansion is a time to re-build the wardens and allow for other events to take place before the next "threat". Morrigan could be mentioned but I feel as the main antagonist she should be left for main titles only.

Not to mention that from a practical standpoint, it makes no sense for Morrigan to be a "villain" in this game or for her child to have any bearing on the plot. There is not a huge time gap between Origins and Awakenings, from what I can tell, so Morrigan's child might A) not even be born yet, or is too young for it to be an issue as of yet.

Plus, my personal stance on Morrigan is that she was sincere and that she doesn't want to take over the world or something. But that's just me on my character, I guess.

Modifié par RobinMichelleB, 30 janvier 2010 - 02:27 .

[Terra_Ex]

My thoughts-
Morrigan is the "cover girl" for the game, that's her concept art on the front of the box and thus its likely that she'll be a major proponent of the DA story, at least for now. imo, Morrigan's role in the DA universe when whatever is going on between her, Flemeth & Warden is fully resolved.

On the other hand you put a lot of time and effort into this one
character, who could essentially be brough back 'ala' Wynne, although he
isn't a mage. It would certainly be a more popular choice, but seems
less... real. It certainly would be more "story-like" to keep the same
character for all 3 games, but realistically choices should matter, and
furthermore, I am confident that the Dark Ritual is the #1 path to
"complete" the story throughout all games.

Well, as I went through the game, I do feel as though it pushes you to survive, throughout the game you bear witness to atrocity after atrocity, it does not coddle you. The game actually hardens you as a player, shaping you as you move through the world, there's obviously a lot more going on in DA than whats on the surface, players should be encouraged to survive and press on to find answers to these questions.

"#2) For future games, they should
add a sense of urgency/doom."

This could actually be quite an interesting feature, though difficult to implement with so many potential variables.

"Anyways, you get the point. Making the plot line this way, makes it
feel like real time affects your decisions. Furthermore, the source of
"Doom" should be Villages getting taken over, people dying, calls for
help, etc. As it is the only town that gets wiped out is Lothering until
the very end. Maybe have certain points in the game where "Big battles"
are going to take place between groups of darkspawn and towns that call
for your help and you can save them/leave to their fate."

I agree with this, the Blight largely takes a backseat after Ostagar, only popping up for a pseudo random battle whenever the player completes part of the main quest, to affirm that that faction will be supporting the PC in battle. I was hoping, after the darkspawn attacked your camp that it would become a semi-regular event, alas that did not happen. As it stands, it feels much more difficult for the player to reach Loghain and thwart his plans - this forms the main part of the game, once Loghain is dealt with, its quite literally a minor stroll toward the darkspawn. A bit more filler here could have offset that feeling somewhat.

My theory is that this is the main storyline plot, and the one that
will lead you to a fullfilling game throughout the trilogy (if they end
up making it so). I won't get into it too much because I could write
forever on the why, but suffice to say it would provide the most
complete storyline. With that said, I think that allowing us to pursue
other options (Loghain/Alistair and Ultimate sacrifice) are great ways
to let us experience our preffered outcomes but in the end to experience
the complete story with all its twists and turns we must succum to the
dark world that is Dragon age and experience the ups and downs of
trusting Morrigan pushing the story forward.

To a certain extent, yes, player choice should be taken into account, but there are limits where it becomes impractical to cater for every eventuality. I'm just starting Mass Effect 2 now, and in all honesty, I don't expect every choice that I made in the first game to be carried through and have an effect on the story, I simply expect a solid story that shows me the various outcome of an array of situations I will never encounter irl. I've no qualms with bioware settling on a single storyline for the general betterment of the series.

"Furthermore, I dont understand the complaints on Awakening not
having Morrigan, I feel the expansion is a time to re-build the wardens
and allow for other events to take place before the next "threat".
Morrigan could be mentioned but I feel as the main antagonist she should
be left for main titles only."

I really don't hope they have Morrigan as the main antagonist - a semi-antagonist who could potentially rejoin you later maybe... But, I would be... disappointed if she cropped up again in DLC, much better to save it for a proper sequel. Its been said before though, unless we keep our PC for the direct sequel, meeting Morrigan again under any circumstance won't have the same impact. Note to BioWare: allow players to continue the morrigan romance

[bl00dsh0t]

Well I agree with the somewhat lack of urgency argument, your choices would make the game more varied on different playthroughs. I mean someone from the mage tower will want to head there first, others might want to listen to Alistair in their initial cluelessness (human noble and alienage elf for instance who don't have a home to go to) and head for redcliffe first. The dalish will want to find other dalish in the brecillian forrest first and the dwarfes are more likely to head for orzhammar to deal with behlen or the carta.



Still I think if you only do one playthrough (or follow the same order of missions every playthrough) this is not going to be noticed and would be missed by 90% of the gamers so as a developer I do not think it is economically feasable to do it unfortunately. Still it would be great of something similar to your suggestion is implemented in DA2.



And concerning morrigan: I think the role of antagonist is something too many want to force on her because they do not agree with her view of the world and distaste for the chantry and the fact that she offers the only way for you or alistair/secret companion to survive slaying the archdemon. The cost of the ritual is, besides the obvious having to cheat on the character you are romancing or force your partner do cheat on you, largely unknown. I say this because we do not know what consequences the birth of the old god will have on thedas, and we also do not know what she intends to do with the child. It would be interesting if she uses the child to force an engagement with the chantry and you get a chance to make the decision with whom you will fight. Now that would have some serious replay value



Although I would like to see her return in awakening she is bound to either be in orlais or somewhere unknown finding a place to give birth to her child after a few months past the battle of denerim so story wise they woud have to compromise the story of awakening by drawing attention to her which makes little sense cosidering its realatively short length compared to the main game.