55 réponses à ce sujet

[lampak]

I've just finished DA and, well, I'm kind of disappointed. Don't get me wrong, DA was a great game. But the main stroyline was probably the worst BioWare has ever made. All the side storylines - in Redcliffe, Tower of Magi, Orzamar etc. - were great, but if you look at the story from distance it turns out to be a plain gather-army, kill-the-dragon, save-the-world cliche. In all BW games there was some great surprise (you turned out to be a son of a long-dead god and so on) but I can't see anything like this here. Loghain turning out not to be so evil? It was obvious from the very beginning (no villain looks sad in cutscenes). OK. I didn't expect him to join me as a party member, but it was nothing compared to Jade Empire, KOTOR or whatever. What happened?

[AnniLau]

They defied your expectations...how's that for a twist?

[errant_knight]

Hmm. You didn't think the need to die was a twist? It was certainly a surprise to me. You can get out of it, but only by committing a dubious act with repercussions.

[What a Twist]

Here I am.

[goofygoff]

lampak wrote...

Loghain turning out not to be so evil? It was obvious from the very beginning (no villain looks sad in cutscenes).

It's like anagnorisis-lite!

There were enough elements that surprised me during the game (recruiting Loghain, the Dark Ritual, etc.), that a true "twist ending" would've felt tacked on just for the sake of being zomgshocking!!1!. 

[blademaster7]

What a Twist wrote...

Here I am.

LOL

____

OP
I don't know what kind of twist you were expecting but I tell you that. If you're playing a game and expecting at some point to see the twist you were hoping, you won't be excited/shocked no matter how big it is.

The Morrigan thing was pretty big to me. Especially if you romanced her. You learn that she was using you the whole damn time to get the power of the Archdemon. She leaves with your child and she doen't want to be followed. What a slap to the face... or maybe that's an understatement.  A kick to my manhood is more appropriate.

I was also surpised when Alistair came out of the closet and confessed "Hey, by the way I'm the bastard child of Maric"

Enough twists for me but to each his own.

Modifié par blademaster7, 29 janvier 2010 - 06:10 .

[lampak]

errant_knight wrote...

Hmm. You didn't think the need to die was a twist? It was certainly a surprise to me. You can get out of it, but only by committing a dubious act with repercussions.

Maybe it was a little... But it did not change the direction in which the plot was going. You knew from the very beginning that you were going to slain the dragon and eventually you did.

As I've said before, DA is a great game. It has an excellent storytelling - which is thanks to cinematic-ness and plot details. The need to die was one of the details. Most of DA plot was details. And the details were great. But the trunk was painfully plain.

It seems the writers began from a simple cliche then split the work between them - "you're making elves, dwarves for you and I'm writng the final battle". Each of the writers did his/her best in one's area polishing it to shine. One invented the werewolve curse, another abomination outbreak and some other - the necessary sacrafice. What I'm complaining about is the very foundation of everything. You gathered one army, second, third then just went out and killed the archdemon. This is why I expected some twist.

Modifié par lampak, 29 janvier 2010 - 06:19 .

[Eudaemonium]

I do get what you mean. BG and KoTOR had great twists. (and boy, what a twist KoTOR had. I admit to not having any real memory of BG though, it was so long ago). While the individual plotlines in DA:O had great twists and turns at points, the overarching plot was rather plain. That said, I've played it so many times now nothing in it shocks me, so its possible I'm just burying the twists under familiarity. Morrigan's Ritual was certainly a twist I didn't see coming, but maybe I'm just naive. TBH, though, I'm looking forward to the twists in Awakening - where it looks like we might actually get to know more about the darkspawn than 'OMG nebulous evil threatens civilisation for no apparent reason other than is evil'.

I think that might have been the problem: the darkspawn themselves and the archdemon weren't really fleshed out at all. They just were. But I assume Bioware is saving revelations about them to Awakening and possibly DA2.

[Superkenru]

I'm of the opinion that DAO is exactly what it said it was; an origin. While it certainly may have been obvious on a macro-level (be the hero, fulfill your destiny, slay the dragon) I believe that the greatest strength of the story is in the journey. This story's detail is absolutely amazing. And (correct me b/c I may be wrong) how many games actually allow you to die. Flat out die. No continues. No save. No resurrection. cue 30 seconds to Mars and roll the credits, dead.

[Freckles04]

I think the "big twist at the end" is getting to be a cliché in and of itself, ever since The Sixth Sense made it vogue. I want surprises in the story, don't get me wrong, but I think DA:O delivered. There were enough shocks along the way that I was kept on my toes. From the opening defeat at Ostagar to the end-game sacrifice, many, many things surprised me.

Something you have to realize is that every story has been told already. It's not what the story is that counts, but how it's told. How DA:O was told was exemplary. The characters were amazing, each one of them realistically flawed and human (or whatever). That is what makes DA:O so phenomenal, to me anyway.

I agree with the other poster that said to have a big twist at the end, it would have felt like it was tacked on as a  "gotcha!". And, really, what could be a bigger twist than having to decide between dying to save the world or letting a potential danger loose into it?

TBH, the death at the end was a twist to me, because I kept expecting a last-minute rescue of some kind.

[Valmy]

I think the big twist has not yet come in this series. This is just the beginning...and things may not have entirely been what the seemed.



This Blight was not like the other Blights. It ended quickly and early. That Blight was as as empty as Thedas' future. It was the vanguard of our destruction. This exchange is over

[hexaligned]

I'm inclined to agree. Out of any Bioware game I have played, DAO to me had the most generic setting and when viewed as a whole, the story just comes across as lazy writing. I'm holding out hope that this is just an (maybe overly dumbed down) intro, and they will expound the story and evolve it into something at least a little more original and interesting with the possible sequels.

[SidheKate]

Or how about killing the Archdemon didn't make the darkspawn go away? See DA: Awakenings...

[Valmy]

relhart wrote...

I'm inclined to agree. Out of any Bioware game I have played, DAO to me had the most generic setting and when viewed as a whole, the story just comes across as lazy writing. I'm holding out hope that this is just an (maybe overly dumbed down) intro, and they will expound the story and evolve it into something at least a little more original and interesting with the possible sequels.

So...Forgotten Realms and Star Wars were more original?  You know that Bioware did not invent those settings right?

But then you do call Bioware lazy and their games generic and dumbed down so maybe you just like out of control hyperbole.

[Valmy]

SidheKate wrote...

Or how about killing the Archdemon didn't make the darkspawn go away? See DA: Awakenings...

Hush!  Don't reveal the BIG TWIST.

[SusanStoHelit]

Like some others who've already posted, I find 'the big twist' kind of cliche. I much prefer the whole series of twists to be found in DAO: the Old God baby, permanent death, the werewolf curse, and so on.



What DAO brought to the table was, amongst other things, a brand new world with new races and creatures, excellent writing, wonderful and witty dialogue, a mutating story that can go so many different ways, characters who are not just black or white. I could go on and on, but I won't.



No plot-changing twist at the end? Good.

[PunkNouveau13]

Valmy wrote...

SidheKate wrote...

Or how about killing the Archdemon didn't make the darkspawn go away? See DA: Awakenings...

Hush!  Don't reveal the BIG TWIST.

What, that the Architect is really your father!!! Buh-buh-BAAAAHHHHH!
No I'm just kidding.....he's your mother:o........no? Distant cousin...maybe?

Modifié par PunkNouveau13, 29 janvier 2010 - 08:49 .

[Mirander]

lampak wrote...

 In all BW games there was some great surprise (you turned out to be a son of a long-dead god and so on) but I can't see anything like this here.  

How about the capacity to father a long-dead (well, slumbering) god?  

[melkathi]

I must confess, I hated the twist in Baldur's Gate that you were the progeny of a dead god. I wanted to be a normal human who does extraordinary things, to be a person who's actions make them stand out. I felt cheated when it was revealed I was special by birth.

The only reason I enjoyed the Revan twist in Kotor, was the extremely well wrote dialogues it brought with it. The party reactions when Carth reveals the truth were priceless.

I am extremely glad that the Warden is not "teh awesome 1337 r0xx0r" by birth but a person who was forced into a bad situation and had to deal with it.

And some stories are not ment for plot twists.

Though as it seems, the plot twist is that there is an expansion, even though the blight should have been over with the death of the Archdemon.

[beelzeybob]

PunkNouveau13 wrote...

Valmy wrote...

SidheKate wrote...

Or how about killing the Archdemon didn't make the darkspawn go away? See DA: Awakenings...

Hush!  Don't reveal the BIG TWIST.

What, that the Architect is really your father!!! Buh-buh-BAAAAHHHHH!
No I'm just kidding.....he's your mother:o........no? Distant cousin...maybe?

Everything you guessed is wrong! He is DUNCAN!!!!!

(No body @ ostagar and he narrates the timeline afterall) but we will see....

/tinfoil hat 

[lampak]

SusanStoHelit wrote...
What DAO brought to the table was, amongst other things, a brand new world with new races and creatures...

Which of the races was new? Elves? Dwarves? Werewolves maybe? 

...excellent writing, wonderful and witty dialogue, a mutating story that can go so many different ways, characters who are not just black or white.

And this is a part I agree with.

[nubbers666]

not every story line needs a twist in it i think it was rather good and besides something makes me think the twist is comen up in the expan

[Suzene]

lampak wrote...

SusanStoHelit wrote...
What DAO brought to the table was, amongst other things, a brand new world with new races and creatures...

Which of the races was new? Elves? Dwarves? Werewolves maybe?

Quinari, for one.

I agree that the majority of the world's trappings were stock fantasy, but only on the surface. I appreciated that the cultures and societies had a different spin on them from the usual Tolkien rip-offs. DA's fallen elves aren't gracefully fading from the world, they're subjugated, second-class citizens, save for the Dalish, who are a cross between nomads and freedom fighters, not immortal muckity-mucks living in trees. Humans aren't the cute, quaint younger race who just kind of wind up everywhere, they've conquered most of the known world. The Dwarves...well, they're pretty close to archetype, yeah. 

While I don't think Bioware hit the mark every time, I think they did a very good job overall of making a morally and politically complex setting, and, if games like Mass Effect 2 are any indication, the first full DA sequel will be a marked improvement.

[Dragon Age1103]

Yeah I agree there was no major twist like Bioware has pretty much thrown in every game but ME2 & DA:O. I enjoyed collecting party members & growing with them as we saved different parts of Ferelden, slowly gained fame & armies then that awesome final battle! No huge plot twist but all the side stories were satisfying enough plus I'm sure they saved the twists for the expansions.

[Behindyounow]

Personally I found the lack of twist to be a plot twist.



I was expecting something cool to be behind the archdemon, but no. Its just some lame dragon