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[Morroian]

Eudaemonium wrote...

I do get what you mean. BG and KoTOR had great twists. (and boy, what a twist KoTOR had. I admit to not having any real memory of BG though, it was so long ago).

IMHO the kotor twist was painfully obvious a long time before it was revealed in game. But then I don't think twists equate with good storytelling anyway. I don't think the DAO story was particularly cliche anyway. Like the ASOIAF series of novels the meat of the story isn't in the darkspawn threat but in the mortal races overcoming their internal threats before finally uniting.

[EverlastingFantasy]

What a Twist wrote...

Here I am.

Lol, your name is awsome! 

[Stabbath123]

I never expect great stories in video games. I watch movies for that anyway lol. I found myself interested in some of the dialog in this game though, which is rare. Only thing it lacked compared to other games is Minsc and Boo funny characters. Shale wasn't quite as funny and interesting:)

[KurtCF]

I've only played through once. Did the Morrigan romance and ritual at the end. "The twist?" you ask. The hero does not get the girl. The hero does not live happily ever after. He lives maybe another 30 years and either goes insane and becomes a ghoul, or dies in a lonely pace in the deep roads, fighting a last battle against overwhelming odds.

[KurtCF]

sorry if that came across a bit rude. not my intent.

[Loerwyn]

I actually like Kurt's interpretation. I wasn't aware Dragon Age had a twist in the story, but then again I didn't really give it any attention until it appeared.

Yes, DA:O was still written to be a victory assured game, but it'd be pointless if it wasn't. It's the cost of the victory that matters, though. How many people do you kill? Does Connor die? Do you kill Lady Isolde? If you're a Dwarf Noble do you let your treacherous brother have the throne in Orzammar? Do you condone the creation of Golems? Who's in the right - The Circle or the Chantry? I would fully expect to see these changes properly have an effect in Awakening (bit surprised it's coming out this soon), and maybe that's the twist. By killing the Archdemon, what if we've loosed greater evils upon the land? Is impregnating Morrigan the right choice? I didn't think that the Old Gods were explained too well (if at all) in game, so it was hard for me to choose.

Dragon Age thrives on being a game of moral greys. Yes, there's right and there's wrong, but you're thrust out of your bubble and into a huge world - You're bound to make mistakes, but the game doesn't punish you (yet) for most of them. OK, maybe Wynne gets a bit cranky because you did something she didn't like or maybe Oghren swears and leaves, but outside of that it doesn't punish you too much.

So maybe that's the twist - Your choices do make a difference but it's more about do you do what's right for you, right for Fereldan or right for your friends?

[Cuddlezarro]

IMHO the kotor twist was painfully obvious a long time before it was revealed in game. But then I don't think twists equate with good storytelling anyway

you arnt the only one

[SusanStoHelit]

lampak wrote...

Which of the races was new? Elves? Dwarves? Werewolves maybe? 

Qunari.

[fthg42]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

I actually like Kurt's interpretation. I wasn't aware Dragon Age had a twist in the story, but then again I didn't really give it any attention until it appeared.
Yes, DA:O was still written to be a victory assured game, but it'd be pointless if it wasn't. It's the cost of the victory that matters, though. How many people do you kill? Does Connor die? Do you kill Lady Isolde? If you're a Dwarf Noble do you let your treacherous brother have the throne in Orzammar? Do you condone the creation of Golems? Who's in the right - The Circle or the Chantry? I would fully expect to see these changes properly have an effect in Awakening (bit surprised it's coming out this soon), and maybe that's the twist. By killing the Archdemon, what if we've loosed greater evils upon the land? Is impregnating Morrigan the right choice? I didn't think that the Old Gods were explained too well (if at all) in game, so it was hard for me to choose.
Dragon Age thrives on being a game of moral greys. Yes, there's right and there's wrong, but you're thrust out of your bubble and into a huge world - You're bound to make mistakes, but the game doesn't punish you (yet) for most of them. OK, maybe Wynne gets a bit cranky because you did something she didn't like or maybe Oghren swears and leaves, but outside of that it doesn't punish you too much.
So maybe that's the twist - Your choices do make a difference but it's more about do you do what's right for you, right for Fereldan or right for your friends?

This.  QFT - DA:O doesn't have the typical plot twist or twist ending it forces upon you.  Instead, the plot unfolds as direct consequences of your actions and choices throughout the game, so really you're shaping the story and causing the twists in plot to occur, rather than the other way around.

For instance, inducting Loghain and recruiting him as a Warden can be considered a pretty big plot twist, considering his animosity towards the Wardens (not to mention being one of the central villains throughout most of the game)...and that'd be a plot twist entirely of your own making.

[dkjestrup]

I wasn't really hoping for a big "twist" as such. More an extension to the story. Up to the Landsmeet is fine, but then it seems really rushed. I'd have loved for multiple skirmishes against the darkspawn, as they pushed you back into Orlais, where with the support of their Wardens, you take the archdemon down.... Only to find that there are two Archdemons, so two blights at once! For the first one, you're forced to let an Orlesian Warden sacrifice themselves, and then on the second one it's your choice.

[Eruanna Guerrein]

Simply, no real happily ever after ending. That was a surprise to me. No matter what choice you make, it's not happily ever after. Someone dies or you merely prolong the inevitable consequences. That realization actually made me angry. OnlyShallow really laid the rest of it there well.

[Sarielle]

The "twist" for me is that there are multiple unhappy endings possible, to varying degrees. Depending on a multitude of choices from who takes the deathblow to who takes the throne to who you romance and befriend, you can lose your love, lose your best friend, lose your life, have to settle for less than the ideal...how many games allow this? Not many I've played, and I heartily approve.

[wwwwowwww]

I felt there were enough twists, turns and surprises through out the game to more than suffice. Not too mention the multiple different endings were twists within themselves if you ask me.



With all the turmoil in making certain decisions, I didn't really need anymore twists

[Palentor]

I would have to agree with the opinions voiced that any kind of "Big Twist ™" at the end would have felt tacked-on and quite artifical.

The way the whole adventure/story unfolds there are a fair amount of twists and turns all the way through. And surprisingly I was even allowed to survive all that, get the girl and walk the lands for some time. That's more than I ever dared to ask.

In my opinion a good example of excellent interactive story-telling, from beginning to end.

[Loerwyn]

Eruanna Guerrein wrote...

Simply, no real happily ever after ending. That was a surprise to me. No matter what choice you make, it's not happily ever after. Someone dies or you merely prolong the inevitable consequences. That realization actually made me angry. OnlyShallow really laid the rest of it there well.

Thank you, I'm glad to know I wasn't talking rubbish. Appreciate it And thank you, fthg42

Dragon Age is a great RPG, and I think what makes it so great (it's taken 70hrs of my life, much less than it has for some) is that it's incredibly realistic. I know that sounds odd for a fantasy game, but it's true. Sten is from another land, one with a completely different set of customs to "our" (i.e. Fereldan's) own, and he's very clear on that he doesn't understand them and it shows through his initial distrust and questioning. I'll confess I've never spoken to him much to see if he ever loosens up... He's just one character who makes it seem more real.

Another thing they did great were the other races - Elves and Dwarves. DA's Dwarves didn't have your typical Scottish accent, although everything else seemed pretty consistant. The Elves, instead of being portrayed as a noble, elegant race were portrayed as refugees in their own land, a race on the brink of destruction. Humans were pretty well done, IMHO. Loghain went mad with power, Cailan was innocent and enthusiastic, Alastair had a razor sharp wit, Bann Teagan was noble, Goldanna was a gold-grabbing cow, you could go on and on. It well represented the broad range of personalities that human nature seems to allow.

Maybe the big twist is just Dragon Age itself. Maybe the fact it's so subtley different to other RPGs is why it's a "twist". It's not afraid to be brutal or shocking, it shows a very logical world. Most fantasy worlds are all singing & dancing with Elves who are tall and graceful, Dwarves who are stout and bitter, Humans who are a noble race with no faults, yet Dragon Age keeps most fantasy tropes/stereotypes in place and turns some on their heads. Like I said in my other post, it's a game where your actions matter but it's never clear (until the end, and hopefully onwards into Awakening and other expansions) just how they affect the world of Fereldan. If you're a City Elf, how are you meant to know if Baelin or Harrowmont are the right leaders for Orzammar, and why should you care about Connor and Isolde? That's what I love about it, you never have the full story until it's (possibly) too late.

Here's a choice, should I stop writing mini-essays?  Falling through the sky sounds fun.

Modifié par OnlyShallow89, 31 janvier 2010 - 12:27 .

[R-F]

i would have been floored at the Morrigan thing if i hadn't looked up the ending events before actually going through them. I romanced her the first time through with my Mage, and the whole im going to raise a baby god and don't come find me thing was insane. at least in that ending it said that you could feel her sorrow which was neat.



since this game is the first in what i hope to be a long series we don't need several twists then we had in the game, they need to save it for other games. Plus the fact the blight didn't really end is pretty neat.

[ComTrav]

Alistair's parentage and Morrigan's offer are probably intended to be the 'Bioware twists'.



KOTOR probably has one of the most earth-shattering ones.

[Taarnah123]

Uh....I'm reading references to "dying"..didn't know that would be a choice. darn...



If I choose to die..I assume you mean me..the game's main character, will it have any effect on the expansion.



I read about "importing" characters. I don't know how this will apply to the expansion, if at all. So, if I die, how do I get in the expansion..



Sorry, I'm not the sharpest tack in the drawer when it comes to stuff like this....thanks

[TheBlackBaron]

Sure, it had nothing compared to the face-slapping Revan reveal of KotOR (which ranks up there with the Modern Warfare nuke and Peach's tendency to be in another castle in terms of video games flipping you the bird), but like people have expressed before that would simply felt tacked on and fake. This game had enough small twists scattered throughout and some genuinely unhappy and depressing endings - it didn't need some big twist simply for the sake of having one.

[ComTrav]

Taarnah123 wrote...

Uh....I'm reading references to "dying"..didn't know that would be a choice. darn...

If I choose to die..I assume you mean me..the game's main character, will it have any effect on the expansion.

I read about "importing" characters. I don't know how this will apply to the expansion, if at all. So, if I die, how do I get in the expansion..

Sorry, I'm not the sharpest tack in the drawer when it comes to stuff like this....thanks

You start as a Gray Warden from Orlais in the expansion if you choose to die.

[Taarnah123]

So, are you saying, if I don't choose to croak, I can take my character, with all the leveling up and goodies I've accumulated, into the expansion. Or will I be started at level 1??



If I start as a Gray Warden from Orlais, won't it be a very weak character .. like level one, with no stats to speak of since I would have died and have left nothing to pass to the expansion. hmmmmm?

[Raphael diSanto]

Taarnah123 wrote...

So, are you saying, if I don't choose to croak, I can take my character, with all the leveling up and goodies I've accumulated, into the expansion. Or will I be started at level 1??

If I start as a Gray Warden from Orlais, won't it be a very weak character .. like level one, with no stats to speak of since I would have died and have left nothing to pass to the expansion. hmmmmm?

Well, BioWare do have just a little bit of experience at juggling previously rolled characters and importing them into new adventures while still supporting players who want to roll new characters for that adventure...

.. I have no doubts it will all work out.

And on topic - I'm glad there wasn't a twist. Too contrived and cliched, honestly. Not every story has to have one, and not every twist improves the story its in.

Modifié par Raphael diSanto, 31 janvier 2010 - 04:51 .

[SusanStoHelit]

Taarnah123 wrote...

So, are you saying, if I don't choose to croak, I can take my character, with all the leveling up and goodies I've accumulated, into the expansion. Or will I be started at level 1??

If I start as a Gray Warden from Orlais, won't it be a very weak character .. like level one, with no stats to speak of since I would have died and have left nothing to pass to the expansion. hmmmmm?

No they'll be level 20, an experienced Grey Warden. Gear I don't know. Bioware is being very quiet about all this. There's a lot of speculation, and very little hard evidence.

[angj57]

Meh, in my opinion BGII was the best game they've done, and that didn't have a huge twist, the twist had already happened in BGI. There was no huge twist in Mass Effect either. As others have said, I think it is harder to create a new universe and a detailed story than use a pre-fab universe and come up with a mind blowing twist.

[TheBlackBaron]

angj57 wrote...

Meh, in my opinion BGII was the best game they've done, and that didn't have a huge twist, the twist had already happened in BGI. There was no huge twist in Mass Effect either. As others have said, I think it is harder to create a new universe and a detailed story than use a pre-fab universe and come up with a mind blowing twist.

The Reaper thing was a huge twist, we just happened to find out before the game was actually released.