107 réponses à ce sujet

[Lightice_av]

Wasn't he cloned or something? I'm going by a trailer I saw, don't have the game itself yet.

No. He was only clinically dead, and in suspended animation. Essentially the state in which people have survived without breathing for hours due to extreme hypothermia in real life, times eleven.

And those people have never made any kind of consistent reporting of an afterlife.



As I mentioned in a previous thread about the subject, I'm very much an atheist, but I like to see religion in video games and other media. Just disregarding it feels jarring, considering how prevalent phenomenon it is in reality. However, I prefer to see it depicted neutrally; if religious people are consistently depicted as inheritly better individuals than the nonreligious, I start to get annoyed.

Actually if you talk to Physicists many do believe in some sort of creator, something about the the Universe being too perfect for it all to happen by chance......so who knows what we will find out in the future?

What you are saying is purely anecdotal statement. There are religious physicists without doubt, but physicists on average aren't any more religious than any other scientists. And currently astronomers and physicists are once again finding cyclical universe models more credible than the one-time Big Bang theory (though the Big Crunch is all but disproved), making the "creation event" unnecessary.



Incidentally, why people insist that there are only two choices: an intelligent designer or "random chance", whatever the latter one is even supposed to mean? As if these two options cover everything.

[Laughing_Man]

RogueAI wrote...

"The light. they always said there would be...light"

For some reason i always liked this one.
kinda creepy...

and by the way, in the end she does a litle "oh.." which could either mean that she *did* saw something,
or that it was just some sort of death-sigh...

so again, the story of ME dosnt take sides in religious VS. atheism.

Modifié par TheRedVipress, 29 janvier 2010 - 08:05 .

[The Demonologist]

Dethateer wrote...



Why? There are people who might not want to read that book. If you did that, you'd be no better than some fundamentalist theists, you'd force them to accept your own ideology.

An assload of us nerds on the web are Atheists, and this is the truth about this. Hell, I'm an atheist too, but people have to watch for this.

The whole dissing of religions to religious folks is just as bad as preaching. You -are- preaching, just against it. Religion should be something personal, whatever your faith be. Don't push on me, and I won't push on you.

Anyway... I definitley do think religion would still be important. Some faiths are so hardy they might be able to evolve to work with our new understandings, creed being changed and twisted in ways to better suit reality. Several religions have done this -very- sucessfully, and while space flight and aliens certainly might be a tribulation, folks are crafty when it comes to this.

Also, coming from an open minded point of view, I find that the concept of God can still work with a lot of scientific ideas, its the earthly creed which has been mended by man that is inflexible.

Modifié par The Demonologist, 29 janvier 2010 - 08:07 .

[FlameChucks]

Personally, I'm not offended by it. I'm a hardcore Atheist, but that doesn't mean that i don't respect other people's beliefs. If anything i'll embrace them with open arms. As long as you don't cross that boundary of insistence then we're good.



As far as Mass Effect goes, i'm not too bothered by it. I'm just glad to see BioWare taking the neutral approach for your main character. It's always nice to see a company not too bogged down on religious fanaticisms.

[Dethateer]

The Demonologist wrote...
Also, coming from an open minded point of view, I find that the concept of God can still work with a lot of scientific ideas, its the earthly creed which has been mended by man that is inflexible.

You can blame that on the good ole fashioned human desire for power. I think that if Jesus returned today, he'd have a heart attack when he saw what his "followers" did instead of simply obeying him and being nice to each other.

[Chocolatyshatnr]

[quote]Bercilak de Hautdesert wrote...

[/quote]

Um, not so much, really.  Take a look: http://www.lhup.edu/...k/sci_relig.htm

According to this study, only about 7.5% of physicists believe in a god or a creator.  And the anthropic principle very [/quote]

Course I can find polls that say otherwise,

According to a survey of members of the American Assn. for the Advancement of Science, conducted by the Pew Research Center in May and June this year, a majority of scientists (51%) say they believe in God or a higher power, while 41% say they do not.


But anyway, I guess it's not the point....like I said I find it interesting that they don't address it in Shepard's case.

[SultanofAtl]

I took the matriarchs death quote as her not seeing the light because of the evil choices she made. But it is still just a game. I mean if your going to suspend the laws of physics to enjoy this game why can't you suspend your personal beliefs.

[NickolasDS]

Just for he purpose of understanding of physics, there does happen to be a huge theory right now. It's called String Theory or, actually, M-Theory. M-Theory happens to support the Big bang and the grand daddy question of physics "What's at the beginning of the singularity". Big Bang still carries heat right now.



I don't believe there is any "one" source that has the highest of power. All things have opposites that can bring them down.



The irony. That's why the reapers will meet their doom. =3

[Schneidend]

I'm glad religion is touched on in the game. The only thing that irks me are the lack of turians referencing the spirits or their mythology. Their religion sounds awesome, but we know so little beyond the generalities mentioned by the Codex.

[btthegeek]

As far as the quote from Benezia, regardless of what Shepard believes, the Asari believe in a Goddess. How many times did Liara say "By the Goddess!" in ME1. The Krogan seem more into ancestor worship or reverence because of the conversation regarding Wrex's meeting with his father at the "graves of our ancestors,' and how that place was a sacred as any Krogan place could be. I think they have done a good job at suggesting the ME universe has a varied religious aspect without forcing the player into a religious ideology.

[Chalta]

I think it would be shortsighted to assume that scientific advancement will/would make religion obsolete. Science and institutionalized spirituality (religion) do not conflict and should not conflict as much as some people imagine. To do so sets up an oversimplified false dichotomy.



Science and spiritual systems of belief ("religion") are both narratives of meaning, knowledge and Truth. And both have value. An oversimplification might state that science seeks the answers to the question "how", whereas religion/faith/spirituality seek "why".



As mentioned before, organized religion does not have a monopoly on preaching, evangelism, fanaticism and bad behavior. Not believing in God is as much a "faith" as believing in Him/Her/Them. But one cannot attribute the value of a system of beliefs to the actions of its followers. Jerks have done and will do bad things. Jerks are jerks regardless of which faith they claim.



I also don't imagine that a Star Trek-like technological utopia will end poverty, disease and oppression. These are things that many faiths are active in addressing.



As science and technology advance, there will undoubtedly be more complicated moral and ethical questions. While science can pose these questions, is neither equipped to nor meant to answer them.

[Dethateer]

Chalta wrote...
Not believing in God is as much a "faith" as believing in Him/Her/Them.

No. You don't need faith to not believe in a god. You need faith to believe in something without evidence, and you can't claim that the lack of evidence for a god is evidence in itself.

Chalta wrote...

I also don't imagine that a Star
Trek-like technological utopia will end poverty, disease and
oppression. These are things that many faiths are active in
addressing.

You're basically saying that religious people have a monopoly on kindness, empathy and morality.

Chalta wrote...


Science and spiritual systems of
belief ("religion") are both narratives of meaning, knowledge and
Truth. And both have value. An oversimplification might state that
science seeks the answers to the question "how", whereas
religion/faith/spirituality seek "why".

Incidentally, science also asks why, only it also bothers finding answers instead of simply getting away with saying "goddidit".

Modifié par Dethateer, 29 janvier 2010 - 09:26 .

[btthegeek]

Chalta wrote...

I think it would be shortsighted to assume that scientific advancement will/would make religion obsolete. Science and institutionalized spirituality (religion) do not conflict and should not conflict as much as some people imagine. To do so sets up an oversimplified false dichotomy.

Science and spiritual systems of belief ("religion") are both narratives of meaning, knowledge and Truth. And both have value. An oversimplification might state that science seeks the answers to the question "how", whereas religion/faith/spirituality seek "why".

As mentioned before, organized religion does not have a monopoly on preaching, evangelism, fanaticism and bad behavior. Not believing in God is as much a "faith" as believing in Him/Her/Them. But one cannot attribute the value of a system of beliefs to the actions of its followers. Jerks have done and will do bad things. Jerks are jerks regardless of which faith they claim.

I also don't imagine that a Star Trek-like technological utopia will end poverty, disease and oppression. These are things that many faiths are active in addressing.

As science and technology advance, there will undoubtedly be more complicated moral and ethical questions. While science can pose these questions, is neither equipped to nor meant to answer them.

Um, not believing is not "faith", faith is continuing to believe in something when you have evidence to the contrary. There is no faith involved for someone who does not believe.  

[Stanley Woo]

Le'ts keep this thread game-related, please. This is not the place for religious debate.

[Chalta]

[quote]Dethateer wrote...

[quote]Chalta wrote...
Not believing in God is as much a "faith" as believing in Him/Her/Them. [/quote]
No. You don't need faith to not believe in a god. You need faith to believe in something without evidence, and you can't claim that the lack of evidence for a god is evidence in itself.
[/quote]
[/quote]

We'll have to agree to disagree there. The lack of evidence for a god is a lack of evidence.

[quote]Dethateer wrote.

[quote]Chalta wrote...


I also don't imagine that a Star
Trek-like technological utopia will end poverty, disease and
oppression. These are things that many faiths are active in
addressing.[/quote]
You're basically saying that religious people have a monopoly on kindness, empathy and morality.
[/quote]

That's not what I said, and to imply otherwise is simply a straw man argument by denying the antecedent.

[quote]Dethateer wrote..
[quote]Chalta wrote...



Science and spiritual systems of
belief ("religion") are both narratives of meaning, knowledge and
Truth. And both have value. An oversimplification might state that
science seeks the answers to the question "how", whereas
religion/faith/spirituality seek "why".
[/quote]
Incidentally, science also asks why, only it also bothers finding answers instead of simply getting away with saying "goddidit".

[/quote]

Many people of faith are fascinated by the "how". To write off faith as simple mental laziness or denial does great disservice to the many great minds of our time, such as Sir Isaac Newton, Blaise Pascal and many others.

As society advances technologically, it is my hope that people of all beliefs (and non-beliefs) will contine to enter into peaceful and respectful dialogue.

Modifié par Chalta, 29 janvier 2010 - 09:46 .

[Dethateer]

My bad. Blame those code threads, they need an eye kept on.

[IndianKJBlue]

I'm a hardcore Richard Dawkins-loving Atheist. But I would upset to see religion taken away from this game. Any logical person, atheist or not, can see religion is something that just happens naturally to any culture with the creativity to ask questions but without the science to answer them. This supposed galaxy of many species and cultures should have many strange religions.

If they made my Shepard have a dialogue choice where being religious was "Paragon" and being Atheist was "Renegade", I'd be upset. But I haven't seen anything of that sort. So in my mind, my Paragon Shepard, who has saved the galaxy at least twice, is, in fact, a good Atheist.

I think it would be shortsighted to assume that scientific advancement will/would make religion obsolete. Science and institutionalized spirituality (religion) do not conflict and should not conflict as much as some people imagine. To do so sets up an oversimplified false dichotomy.

Actually science and religion are a dichotomy. Science does seek answers to any question that can be asked, and Science will refute ITSELF. It holds nothing sacred and the Scientific Method is such that everything has to be put to this test and every alternative theory squashed in order for anything to be scientifically "proven".

Religion on the other hand, is 100% suppositions and theories. Science is all about second-guessing yourself to the Nth degree. Religion is about subsiding such questions and second-guesses with a blanket of faith. The natural way in which religion and science approach grasping the real world makes them completely at odds with each other. Eventually, science will test and question something your religion tells you to take on Faith, and then you can decide if you're really religious. Every real religion on Earth has superstitions that the scientific mind simply cannot accept. If a religion didn't have such superstitions, then it really wouldn't even be a religion. It'd just be a community service center or some such thing.



Not meant to argue, it's just how I see things.

[Dethateer]

Second post for bump. Honestly, I'd like to know a lot more about the way the Hanar see the Protheans.
In relation to the above post, I seriously doubt you'd see a system like that anywhere else than in blatantly christian video games.
Also, as much as I'd agree with that wall'o'text, it's kinda going against Stan's wishes, and it'd be a shame to have this thread locked too.

Modifié par Dethateer, 29 janvier 2010 - 09:46 .

[IndianKJBlue]

Yeah, I didn't see Stan's post until I made mine.

The damage is done, and I'm leaving it. But I do apologize, this indeed, is not the place for religious/atheist debate.

[Lightice_av]

Chalta wrote...

We'll have to agree to disagree there. The lack of evidence for a god is a lack of evidence.

This is a fact. Also, lack of belief is lack of belief, not belief. In other words, absence of belief is no more belief than absence of evidence is evidence. I have no belief in any deity. This does not mean that I have faith in the nonexistence of a deity - I simply don't believe. This is absence of belief, not existence.

Many people of faith are fascinated by the "how". To write off faith as simple mental laziness or denial does great disservice to the many great minds of our time, such as Sir Isaac Newton, Blaise Pascal and many others.

You might want to note that the more scientific believers become, the more abstract their perception of a deity becomes. Newton's God was little more than a mechanism to start the clockwork he understood the universe to be. That isn't to say that scientists can't have religious beliefs or that religious believers can't be interested by science, but making a compromise between different worldviews causes change in either or both systems; in science this unfortunately can lead to loss of integrity, like with Newton who spent his later days counting the date of the Armaggeddon, and trying to make gold with alchemy.

As society advances technologically, it is my hope that people of all beliefs (and non-beliefs) will contine to enter into peaceful and respectful dialogue.

Well, that's something that we all can hopefully agree on.

[Par_Vollen]

Well, if you take into consideration that the Protheans had a base on Mars and on the Moon, and they also observed (and who knows what else) the humans, it is very likely, that the ancient God myths are misunderstood encounters with aliens, probably with the Protheans. A codex entry also mentions something like that in the first game. Also, this is called the AAT, the Ancient Astronauts Theory. I read about it a lot in the past 10 years, and if you look into the ancient texts, there are lots of things (especially in the Indian mythologies) that could be easily explained with the above theory.
It is interesting, that the developers put something like this in the game. For some reason it really increased immersion for me.
So much about the true roots of religion, at least on Earth.

Anyway, whatever is the truth regarding the real life, I have nothing against (not fanatic) believers. This is only my personal, subjective opinion.

Modifié par Par_Vollen, 29 janvier 2010 - 11:08 .

[Homebound]

I think Mordin said it best when he said that a race whos technology far out-runs its philosophical identity are doomed to be like the Krogans.



"Like giving nuclear weapons to cave men".

[shinobi602]

I'm religious (Muslim), as long as there's options and nothing is forced, everything's swell

[Dethateer]

Just_mike wrote...

I think Mordin said it best when he said that a race whos technology far out-runs its philosophical identity are doomed to be like the Krogans.

"Like giving nuclear weapons to cave men".

Welcome to the world of today.