107 réponses à ce sujet

[Surberus]

NickolasDS wrote...

Mr. Beaver wrote...

I'm quite an avid atheist, and no I didn't get disturbed. Except when EDI gave some bible references (I won't give spoilers when) I found it kinda stupid I don't believe it fit the whole situation.

I concur. That was a moment worth rolling eyes, for me. It actually seems way off, considering how EDI shouldn't have an opinion on morality, yet chooses to quote something with diversity on the subject? Interesting.

As a practicing Christian, I didn't really like this sequence either. It felt out of place at best. Im pretty sure we could've come to the same name without the Bible quote.

I'm never for forcing religion on people.

[Mr. Beaver]

@SkullandBonesmember: Well maybe there was a quarter in that blade and due to temperature changes and some impurities inside fan at that exact moment fan decided to bend and launch that quarter into your hand. Gah some materials engineer could explain much better than me as I took materials engineering course like 3 years ago but believe many of the unnatural things has scientific answers.

But anyway I agree as fishes swimming in the water can't feel anything except water, we humans -due to our nature- can't feel many things too. Nevertheless that doesn't mean we can't find and explain those things scientificly or even learn to how to use them at our will.

Modifié par Mr. Beaver, 30 janvier 2010 - 07:09 .

[Bryy_Miller]

NickolasDS wrote...

I find it interesting that there is a lot about religion in this series. I'm an atheist, and it doesn't bother me that such things are provoked quite often in the series. I'm actually glad there's a slight option with Ash in ME1 about being a non-believer.

I do enjoy that the Commander never really pushes into either side. Having that neutral feeling is fair ground. It works nicely. I just hope it stays that way and nothing happens in the end of the series, that gives the commander a strong opinionative choice, about believing or not. I don't want to disrespect any believers, so I can't argue the fact that there is so much religious stuff being provoked. I just don't want to have to make anymore choices about believing, like the talk with Ash.

What are your opinions on this matter? If you're a strong athetist, does it bother you?

I have a saying: "my D&D character believes in God so I don't have to"

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 30 janvier 2010 - 07:10 .

[Sageless Ranger]

I am a Christian and as long as they don't make commander shepard religious by default, (which they wont as this part rpg,) I'm happy, forcing religion at someone never solved anything. Now if only my fellows in real life understood this =/

[Lightice_av]

I've lived in my house since 1999. In 2005, after 6 full years of living in this house, sleeping in the same room, a VERY unimportant, some may say stupid thing happened but at the same time, this occurrence is beyond logical explanation. Now before you skeptics do what you do best and that's grasping at straws, I'm going to need to go out of my way to clarify something. Like many ceilings, the one in my room only holds a fan. I have never placed anything on the blades. No, nobody could have done this as a prank for 2 reasons. The first is that my fan was not on since it was the middle of winter so nothing would have fallen off. Even if by some chance somebody HAD placed it on the blade and it fell off, the laws of physics makes it impossible to have fallen where it did because I was not underneath it. Out of nowhere, a quarter fell on the top of my hand. Now tell me how the **** that happens.

This is still what we call "anecdotal evidence". We cannot be sure that you are in full possession of the facts. There may be dozens of elements that you have accidentally omitted, believing them to be unrelated and unimportant, or simply failed to notice them altogether. It is in no sense a proof of anything. Just for example, the quarter may have in fact been in your hair, not in the fan or the roof.



But let us pretend for the sake of argument that it was indeed supernaturally conjured out of thin air to fall in your hand. What does this indicate? That a friendly spirit thought you were a bit short of cash? Spontaneous coincidental teleportation? Somebody upstairs just learned how to make objects phase through each other?



Experience is nothing. As I said, I have heard speech when I have in fact been entirely alone. It was disturbing, but far from unexplainable.

[SorrowAndJoy7]

NickolasDS wrote...
The force was just hitting on the idea of yin and yang, that's all. No god was ever placed, nor was any idea of how everything came to be. So I'd say Star Wars was religion-free.

I can understand the point you're trying to make, but the dark/good side of "the force" is just a way of understanding everything around us, not how it was created. I'd say that any true religion has some idea behind creation.

Perhaps, but I don't think there needs to be a god for there to be a religion. The force insinuated that there was something else out there pushing us and pulling us to certain sides. Guiding us, To me that is a religion. Maybe i'm wrong but I think that falls under certain definitions for religion. "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience"

Modifié par SorrowAndJoy7, 30 janvier 2010 - 07:45 .

[Bryy_Miller]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Something just happened to me. It felt like a vacuum cleaner was turned on in my nose for a second. My head violently and uncontrollably moved forward and downward. My eyes also closed. Now I don't know what this is but since nobody here was with me when it happened, does it make my experience any less real? And if you claim to have experienced something like that, how do I know YOU'RE on the up and up and being truthful with me? For all I know you could be like Saren and "playing" me.

Moreso, what about deja vu? No. Not a "vague" feeling. If anything, I believe the scientific explanation of "neurons misfiring". However, I believe that to be only applicable to the "vague" feelings and certainly not knowing what somebody is going to say before they open their mouth because of having seen the exact scenario unfold in a dream down to the color of another person's shirt. Much like how I accept there is a scientific explanation for the "vague" deja vu, there are alien abductees who HAVE experienced sleep paralysis but insist the two are not related and that's skeptics grasping at straws.

I've lived in my house since 1999. In 2005, after 6 full years of living in this house, sleeping in the same room, a VERY unimportant, some may say stupid thing happened but at the same time, this occurrence is beyond logical explanation. Now before you skeptics do what you do best and that's grasping at straws, I'm going to need to go out of my way to clarify something. Like many ceilings, the one in my room only holds a fan. I have never placed anything on the blades. No, nobody could have done this as a prank for 2 reasons. The first is that my fan was not on since it was the middle of winter so nothing would have fallen off. Even if by some chance somebody HAD placed it on the blade and it fell off, the laws of physics makes it impossible to have fallen where it did because I was not underneath it. Out of nowhere, a quarter fell on the top of my hand. Now tell me how the **** that happens.

Wow, slow down there, padre. I could respond to each of your "evidences", but that would turn this into a religious discussion beyond the context of ME2, so I'll simply ask you where this anger comes from?

[jrubal1462]

I think it's humorous enough to note that the only religious remark that I've seen so far in ME2 is Mordin's comment that, "humans are so varied and diverse they can't even agree on a religion"

.....and that hasn't yet found a place to be mentioned

.....on this discussion of religion in ME2

.....because everyone's discussing their different beliefs of religion and its place in science and morality



Just sayin'

[SorrowAndJoy7]

jrubal1462 wrote...

I think it's humorous enough to note that the only religious remark that I've seen so far in ME2 is Mordin's comment that, "humans are so varied and diverse they can't even agree on a religion"
.....and that hasn't yet found a place to be mentioned
.....on this discussion of religion in ME2
.....because everyone's discussing their different beliefs of religion and its place in science and morality

Just sayin'

what about thane? He talks quite a lot about religion.

[Dewnis]

Also an atheist, and seeing as some form of religious belief will always be around probably it's good that they put it in there, realism is always a good thing.



Variety makes good characters, good characters improve the game.

[NickolasDS]

Wow. I missed Mordin's comment. I'll look for that during my second play-through.



My only concern is about the last game and the ending of the story. I don't look forward to any ending that gives to an idealistic religious-type morality. Usually when huge epic stories like these reach their end, morality comes in, but always backed by some kind of higher power. Bioware has done great so far, by keeping the bar on a fair level. It would hurt to see that bar pick a side at the conclusion of the story.

[Aspyred]

I don't know why you guys are all slamming EDI, saying she just said a Bible verse for no reason at all.



Now correct me if I'm wrong, but what happened was character X (no spoilers) said a line explaining himself, Shepard said he was OK with this, and EDI explained the meaning of what character X said, from the Bible.



Some of you are making it sound like EDI is evangelizing to the audience.

[exboomer]

Not to stir the pot or anything but I think the atheists and agnostics are in for a very rude awakening come Judgement Day. Personally I think there was no need for Shepherd to die, the story could of been written differerntly and would of been much more believable. Dead is dead whether it's today or 180 yrs in the future. People are not just biomechanical machines that can be repaired like your car, they have souls and there is only ONE entity in the universe that can create one so I think the writer(s) are being intellectually dishonest in the approach they took. However this won't stop me from playing the game.

[Twitchmonkey]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...
Skeptic grasping as skeptics do. My head was shaved at the time.

If the evidence is good enough for you, isn't that enough? If I tell my friends I got a 10-foot long trout, they really have no reason to believe me, the claim is rather extraordinary, and while they may believe I got a large trout, there is little cause to believe an extraordinary claim without strong evidence, people exaggerate, time makes us see things less clearly, and we may not consider all of the details. However, it is possible I did catch that 10-foot long trout, and if I did, I should be satisfied with that knowledge and not have to go around looking for validation.

[SorrowAndJoy7]

Surberus wrote...

NickolasDS wrote...

Mr. Beaver wrote...

I'm quite an avid atheist, and no I didn't get disturbed. Except when EDI gave some bible references (I won't give spoilers when) I found it kinda stupid I don't believe it fit the whole situation.

I concur. That was a moment worth rolling eyes, for me. It actually seems way off, considering how EDI shouldn't have an opinion on morality, yet chooses to quote something with diversity on the subject? Interesting.

As a practicing Christian, I didn't really like this sequence either. It felt out of place at best. Im pretty sure we could've come to the same name without the Bible quote.

I'm never for forcing religion on people.

I thought this sequence was great and i'm agnostic, I lean towards dislking christianity more than anything, but I felt it was a good verse to describe what the geth were like. It isn't forcing religion on anybody, it's using a classic quote from the bible that seems geth relevant. Nowhere in there is it saying demons are real, nowhere in there are they giving opinions on the actual bible. I don't believe EDI showed any opinion on the truth of the verse, only the relevance of what the verse implied.

[Twitchmonkey]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...
It irkes me when skeptics grasp at straws, that's all.

I don't think that's fair, he was just proposing one possibility for how you could have been mistaken. Probably not the best idea, as there are hundreds of factors involved in any anecdote and trying to find the point of error, assuming there is one, is all but impossible, but what he posed was one possibility.

[jrubal1462]

SorrowAndJoy7 wrote...

jrubal1462 wrote...

I think it's humorous enough to note that the only religious remark that I've seen so far in ME2 is Mordin's comment that, "humans are so varied and diverse they can't even agree on a religion"
.....and that hasn't yet found a place to be mentioned
.....on this discussion of religion in ME2
.....because everyone's discussing their different beliefs of religion and its place in science and morality

Just sayin'

what about thane? He talks quite a lot about religion.

Didn't get there yet myself, but I guess I have seen enough of him in the trailers to believe you.  Touché

[Lightice_av]

SkullandBonesmember wrote..

Skeptic grasping as skeptics do. My head was shaved at the time.

How convenient. I suppose you also conveniently had three of the most reliable people in your town as witnesses to this event? Isn't it handy when everything just happens to be different from what the sceptics speculated, whether it is necessarily relevant or not? 

Incidentally, you seem to be awfully fond of that expression; of all possible terms you use that one over and over again. This indicates a few things about your psychology. It builds a neat barrier between you and any arguments or speculations that might endanger your worldviews.

Yeah? What happens when a disembodied voice tells you where to find a dead body that you have no connection with him or his family?

This has happened to you then? Again, just hearing that this has happened to someone does not make it a fact. Data, produce some data! I can make a hundred miraculous claims within an hour with just as much truth behind them as yours.