252 réponses à ce sujet

[Mordigan]

MetallicaRulez0 wrote...

I apologize if I hurt your little feelings, but can you maybe explain to me why you think the Vanguard can "deal out a horrendous amount of damage in a small amount of time"? Vanguards don't have some magic super damage ability the other classes don't. It's not even technically a more skill-based class. It's just a far more dangerous class to play than the others, because you have zero defensive abilities and your offense is the same (often times worse because Shotguns are awful).

You didn't hurt my feelings, and I'll certainly explain why I think the Vanguard can deal out a horrendous amount of damage in a small amount of time

I've been saying it the entire time, from page 1.  The Vanguard's primary damage potential lies in being able to use his shotgun at very close range with his enemy.

Now you say the shotgun is awful, but you are very mistaken.  The shotgun, at close range, can kill an enemy faster than any other weapon; with regular mobs dying in about 1 shot if you aim at the head, and stronger enemies, 2 shots.  Boss-like enemies from my experience go down in about 4 or 5 shots; even if they still have their armor/barrier/tech armor.

As for Charge, it enables you to near instaneously traverse the battlefield to your selected enemy without having to worry about being shot at, then stunning or knocking them back dealing damage in the process, and commence to blowing them away with your shotgun.  To help you do this, your shield is strengthened up to 100% upon charge.

But you're not invincible.  If you make a bad decision, you will die.  But it's not because the class isn't capable or is flawed.  It's because YOU made a bad decision.  Good players that can pull off headshots quickly and efficiently will have a much higher chance of surviving a charge, as will players that make shrewd decisions on whether to charge at all.

Thats the essence of the Vanguard, the high risk high reward strategy, and the ME2 Vanguard captures it perfectly.  The Vanguard in ME1 felt like a "hodgepodge" cross between an adept and a soldier, and didn't feel like a fast and furious close quarter fighter it was supposed to be imo.

Also, comparing the robustness of the Vanguard in ME to the Vanguard in ME2 is disingenuous, because in ME2, the PC is no longer god like..

[wrexisawesome]

another one of these threads....



where to start



L2P?



play on normal?



/thread

[Coughee Brotha]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Vanguard seems to work exactly like Christina said in the vid's. High risk (you will die more), high reward (fights end very fast, and it's a lot of fun).

Those that expect charge to be just as good for insanity as it is for normal, veteran and yes even hardcore, probably need to take a step back. Insanity is not the difficulty that classes are balanced against. Seeing how charge works fantastic if not down right overpowered on all other difficulties, I'd not call it broken. (still works great on insanity)

Heavy charge, Barrier, Max Inferno ammo and Champion. Try those out, pause if you have trouble aiming etc. While I'm hesitant to say you need "skill", it does need somewhat decent reaction time unless you pause. Anyway, with that setup you can on Normal, Veteran and Hardcore charge pretty much anything, up to groups of 3 enemies with all defenses intact and using auto shutgun kill them with ease. On insanity I'd say if you want to avoid dying, stick to no bigger groups then 3 and with only shield/health or just health. Works just fine.

It's the most high intensity class and way more fun then in the first game. (it was pretty much in god mode)

Tip: When you charge a group, don't use any other ability once the cooldown is over, use charge again to regain your shields. Repeat until everything is dead. It's pretty much that easy.
(oh yeah get the biotic cooldown reduction asap)

Why champion and not destroyer? Is th 6% difference really noticable? and why is inferno rounds so important.  I usually let someone in my squad endow me with ammo power to save points for my biotics

[MGIII]

Coughee Brotha wrote...

Dannok1234 wrote...

Vanguard seems to work exactly like Christina said in the vid's. High risk (you will die more), high reward (fights end very fast, and it's a lot of fun).

Those that expect charge to be just as good for insanity as it is for normal, veteran and yes even hardcore, probably need to take a step back. Insanity is not the difficulty that classes are balanced against. Seeing how charge works fantastic if not down right overpowered on all other difficulties, I'd not call it broken. (still works great on insanity)

Heavy charge, Barrier, Max Inferno ammo and Champion. Try those out, pause if you have trouble aiming etc. While I'm hesitant to say you need "skill", it does need somewhat decent reaction time unless you pause. Anyway, with that setup you can on Normal, Veteran and Hardcore charge pretty much anything, up to groups of 3 enemies with all defenses intact and using auto shutgun kill them with ease. On insanity I'd say if you want to avoid dying, stick to no bigger groups then 3 and with only shield/health or just health. Works just fine.

It's the most high intensity class and way more fun then in the first game. (it was pretty much in god mode)

Tip: When you charge a group, don't use any other ability once the cooldown is over, use charge again to regain your shields. Repeat until everything is dead. It's pretty much that easy.
(oh yeah get the biotic cooldown reduction asap)

Why champion and not destroyer? Is th 6% difference really noticable? and why is inferno rounds so important.  I usually let someone in my squad endow me with ammo power to save points for my biotics

I went Destroyer myself, and it wasn't a hard decision.

[Peer of the Empire]

Most of our direct damage will come from shotguns and melee.  The idea is to be able to react quickly to the situation once you've charged.

Inferno rounds do a lot of damage and then spread it around.  The idea is to own and maybe cc everybody who happens to be around you.

These are intended for maximum success when charging.  Barrier for the same purpose.  I'm sure there are other ways such as freezing and pulling enemies before going in.

[Peer of the Empire]

btw low FPS will interfere with Charge. I fixed the problem and Charge works smoothly. it OWNS

[apoc_reg]

er charge is awesome and i use it nearly constantly. It makes you immune for a few seconds and neutralises the guy shooting you. use it a a life saver and you'll begin to appreciate how awesome it can be ( i play on veteran difficulty)

[sinosleep]

I am a vanguard, play on hardcore, charge all the time, kill everything in no time, and rarely die. Whole lot of people have no idea how to play the game.

Modifié par sinosleep, 30 janvier 2010 - 07:01 .

[Mabari Owns High Dragon]

You obviously havn't used this power enough. I use it AT LEAST 5 times per fight and follow up with shotgun bursts. I take down powerful enemies in seconds. I killed the Blue Suns boss easily and I play on Veteran! If you spend alot of time with it you'll find out its actually more useful then it seems.

[Coughee Brotha]

Inferno round really make that much of a difference. If so I was definitely plannin on maxing charge, assualt mastery and bonus power. I was going to max shockwave and pull but reconsidering pull because of fast recharge times. If inferno ammo is really powerful as people say should I for go pull

[DreamersImperial]

I love Charge. For some reason I was under the impression that you could use it even when not facing an enemy, you know, to escape from combat situations too (because I SWEAR that was mentioned somewhere). But aside from that, it works really well for me.



I've been putting it to the test and charging right into rather large groups of enemies intentionally, and it's saved my butt. It cools pretty fast and with Heavy Charge you have that few seconds of slowdown in the world around you each time you use it, so I'd just charge into a large group, fire a couple shots while it cools, and repeat until they all died. Of course I also died a lot while I was getting used to it, but I admit it's a PLAYER problem and NOT a skill problem.

[Kwonnern]

For damage, Research ALL Shotgun Upgrades.



Warp Ammo + Heavy Charge with Time Dilation and Shield + Claymore Shotgun to the Head, Melee, Fire again.



Get to cover, Charge has such a fast cooldown that you can Charge again very quickly! Rinse and repeat.

[newcomplex]

RogueAI wrote...

Crawling_Chaos wrote...

Bad power, or bad player?

You decide

So, if you followed the instructions on how to use a weapon, and it malfunctions, you will blame the person who is firing the weapon?

I guess you also blamed Haitians for the earthquake, and probably blamed the jews for the holocost. You are a sick bastard.

....


Shotguns a great way for killing a isolated enemy behind cover.    Just don't charge into a group of enemies that doesn't let you cover quickly, and have more then 2 enemies fire on you.   

Modifié par newcomplex, 30 janvier 2010 - 09:27 .

[XyA_DeathKnight]

Hmm. Well maybe it's because I chose the Charge ability that let's you impact multiple enemies... instead of Heavy Charge. I can't stand hitting a group and it literally doing nothing to them (no stun, no fall down). Then combine that with several areas where you cannot charge enemies and you get IMO a rather worthless ability.

Shockwave, I have found, is pretty amazing. Significantly more useful than charge. Not VG specific, though. Also, although I have yet to mention it in this thread.. I, too, am not happy that I was led to believe you could charge into battle and then charge away to safety. Obviously in certain situations you can sort of do just that... but not the way the previews and videos (marketing) led us to believe.

Modifié par XyA_DeathKnight, 30 janvier 2010 - 11:36 .

[sinosleep]

Group stun only works if they aren't shielded.

[XyA_DeathKnight]

I suppose I should step away from criticism for a moment and say that I am really enjoying ME2. The game is clearly well-made, and of a very large scope. It is worthy of applause.



Still, I wish Charge would have been implemented differently.

[RogueAI]

Yeah, it is totally gimped for the shooting aspect. I played through the game just hiding behind cover without using powers since they were so useless.

Next game doesn't even need different classes other than the solider since it has become Gears of War.

[Autoclave]

Why everyone here is recommending heavy charge? I don't see anyone speaking about Area charge. Is it that bad really?



I have to decide now which one i want to evolve to. Heavy seems like an improved version with some bullet time. Area charge brings some new feature like knocking back multiple enemies. Why not go for it?



What is more valuable, killing groups of enemies, or single ones?

[sinosleep]

The problem with area charge is that for it to be effective enemies need to be unshielded/armored, and frankly if they're in that bad a shape something like a mass pull and warp combo is a far better combo.

[Vagivan]

RogueAI wrote...

Crawling_Chaos wrote...

Bad power, or bad player?

You decide

So, if you followed the instructions on how to use a weapon, and it malfunctions, you will blame the person who is firing the weapon?

I guess you also blamed Haitians for the earthquake, and probably blamed the jews for the holocost. You are a sick bastard.

i quote possibly one of the dumbest posts I've ever read

do you blame the state of the art assault rifle or do you blame the person who hasnt fired a weapon before

do you blame the musical instrument or do you blame the guy who doesnt even know how to hold it

get it together for christsake

[Peer of the Empire]

I play Vanguard on Hardcore and it is fine.  I charge all the time

sinosleep wrote...

The problem with area charge is that for it to be effective enemies need to be unshielded/armored, and frankly if they're in that bad a shape something like a mass pull and warp combo is a far better combo.

Area Charge is for stunning groups, getting off a couple shots and
escaping.  If you've played a vanguard you know how dangerous charging into groups
is so the idea that you should own them all with one area charge is indeed a strange one.  As it should be.

[meechelle]

Mordigan wrote...

XyA_DeathKnight wrote...

Charge is the insult you throw at the guy that just owned you. You only break it out when the fight's over.

Charge's primary purpose isn't inflicting damage first off.  Charge's primary purpose is to allow you to close the gap between you and an enemy almost instantaneously, and get right up in their face with your shotgun and blow them to hell.

Thats what the Vanguard does. The Shotgun when used properly, is devastating up close, and charge is meant to allow you to use your shotgun to it's maximum potential.

The fact that it DOES inflict damage (especially when maxed out) is just icing on the cake.

I suggest that after charging, you use your shotgun and shoot them right in the grill

I picked Vanguard specifically for the charge (it looked great on player videos) but I died alot when using it initially. Then I started using it to finish off enemies. Got a little better with it and pulled out the shotgun before I charged. Every now and again I get REALLY cocky and charge prematurely. Premature charge = certain death. Right now I'm using overload or warp on my target while using pull (if I can) on a nearby enemy (b/c of course they travel in packs) from one of my squad members to weaken shields and separate them, charge with shotgun, and finish off my target while his buddy is floating towards my crew. Works more often than not now. Sometimes I don't even need the shotgun b/c I'm blasting away while they're stunned or sprawled out on the ground trying to recover from the charge.

All that is to say that it sucked at first, but not so much anymore. To Xya: I think you've just got to get a strategy down that works and make use of the time you've got while they're stunned or downed just after you charge. I don't know how much of a difference it makes, but I'm playing on Veteran difficulty. I don't know what charge is like on Hardcore.

On a side note: while I'm glad they have given characters new abilities on ME2, I KINDA miss the old ones from ME1. I felt like the ME1 Vanguard class was much more adaptable, but I knew what I was signing up for--it says in the very beginning that Sentinel is the most versatile class...

[Xerxes52]

New Vanguard Power Evolution: Respawn.



Basically a third evolution of Charge (i.e. you charge, you inevitably die, and then you respawn!)



What fun yeah?

[ComaHaze]

charge

[Hi Tehk]

My guess for the obvious charge areas is because it would interrupt a cut scene a enemy respawn. But for health and uses, It's a great asset when your surrounded. I have area charge so when my health is running low, i take out shields and you my charge to get a quick getaway around cover.