252 réponses à ce sujet

[RamsenC]

I have no camera somehow, but I did end up making a video at 20 fps which is good enough. Only downside is its only long enough to show me killing three guys. Now to get a youtube account and compress this video.

[RamsenC]

[quote]Mordigan wrote...

[quote]RamsenC wrote...

I completely disagree about your opinion on the Sentinel and yes I did play on insanity, but thats too far off topic anyways.[/quote]

Hmmm, this I'd like to see..  Tech armor gives the same bonus to shields that heavy charge does, although the latter only lasts 4 seconds.

Still, even with a 100% boost to shields, you may as well be wearing paper if you're charging into battle at a snail's pace because you're going to be attracting all the aggro..

[quote]I noticed you can only say good things about the Claymore. Its obvious the other two shotguns suck completely.[/quote]

Not really.  I'd think that Sinosleep's videos prove beyond a doubt that the other two shottys don't suck , and can still be used effectively all the way up to insanity difficulty.
 
[quote]On top of that the Claymore is no shotgun equivalent to the Widow sniper. While the Claymore isn't terrible its not good enough for being the special shotgun of doom its supposed to be.[/quote]

The Widow is a sniper rifle, so it's obviously going to do much more damage in a single shot than any other weapon because thats the nature of the sniper rifle.  For a shotgun though, the Claymore does an obscene amount of damage.

 [quote]The problem is once you have to take a second shot you are better off with almost any other weapon. Also I do test all the weapons in play, I'm only using numbers to prove my points since its factual, everything else is opinion.]

You rarely have to take a second shot.  The first shot typically removes all of the enemy's shields and armor, and takes off most of the enemy's health as well.

Most of the time, you can just follow up with a quick melee and finish it.  The second shot is overkill.

[quote]Here are the shotgun changes I made that I feel should be in the game. Makes all the shotguns viable, but different. If I was stuck on the 360 version I would just accept how bad the shotguns are and use the Vindicator, but that goes against the spirit of the Vanguard, and now we can actually mod this game.[/quote]

But now the weapons are unbalanced..  [/quote]

This quote is getting huge...

Part of being a close range threat as the sentinel is the assault armor. When it explodes it knocks everything on its ass and gives you 50% shield. On top of that sentinel has the fastest skill recharge in the game so you can do this often. I fought up close and personal all the time with my sentinel. Fighting husks was especially fun because even when they swarm you they just fall over when your shield explodes.

Also shotguns and snipers are generally both one hit kill weapons, I don't see why you would assume a sniper should be plain better when using them is so safe. If you think my shotguns are imbalanced thats fine, I'm willing to hear constructive criticism, but if you think they are fine the way they are I can't agree.

[RamsenC]

 Heres the video, hope this is enough. Found some random side quest and sent my squad somewhere so they wouldn't interfere. Wish I could have made the video longer because I killed the rest of the enemies in spectacular fashion.



In case you're wondering I ran this again with each shotgun. Katana ended up killing these guys in 3 shots, just like the Vindicator and the Scimitar was usually 3, but sometimes 4. Claymore could not one shot them from full health/shield, but a couple melee hits afterwards and they were dead.

Modifié par RamsenC, 05 février 2010 - 09:46 .

[sinosleep]

Any chance of listing where I can get this side quest so I can put up a comparison vid when I get home from work? Also what level are you in that vid? 

Modifié par sinosleep, 05 février 2010 - 09:50 .

[RamsenC]

Sigurd's Cradle> Decoris > Sanctum

I'm level 21 in the video.

Modifié par RamsenC, 05 février 2010 - 09:53 .

[sinosleep]

RamsenC wrote...

Sigurd's Cradle> Decoris > Sanctum

Awesome sauce.

Modifié par sinosleep, 05 février 2010 - 09:57 .

[WilliamShatner]

Charge is indeed fairly worthless in the game because going out into the middle of the battle is idiotic in this game and the player is rewarded for staying behind cover.



And it is COMPLETELY worthless during the long walk in the biotic field.

[RamsenC]

I edited in my level, but I should add I had Miranda with Cerberus Leader and I went Vanguard Champion because I want charge to be ready as soon as possible. I have area reave as well, but didn't use it.

[sinosleep]

RamsenC wrote...

I edited in my level, but I should add I had Miranda with Cerberus Leader and I went Vanguard Champion because I want charge to be ready as soon as possible. I have area reave as well, but didn't use it.

I'm only level 9 as of my last vid, but since it's a side mission I actually could do it at low level just for kicks. I should prolly wait until I'm at similar level though for a better comparison.

[edit here] Actually now that I think about it I could just load up my old hardcore vanguard, hope I didn't do that mission early, and then just change the difficulty from hardcore to insanity and do it when I get home from work.

Modifié par sinosleep, 05 février 2010 - 10:02 .

[RamsenC]

It's actually pretty hard to compare weapons with fire ammo since it takes awhile to finish up. If it weren't for the fire being able to spread I think I'd go with squad AP ammo from Garrus.

Either way you have to admit the Vindicator is a monster at close range.

Modifié par RamsenC, 05 février 2010 - 10:08 .

[_Dannok1234]

I'll happly admit to that. I use it just the way you did, when taking on one enemy at a time it's superb. It's just when people are stacked together I greatly prefer one of the shotguns. (I can't seem to get comfort zone with the krogan shotgun tho)

[Mordigan]

RamsenC wrote...



In case you're wondering I ran this again with each shotgun. Katana ended up killing these guys in 3 shots, just like the Vindicator and the Scimitar was usually 3, but sometimes 4. Claymore could not one shot them from full health/shield, but a couple melee hits afterwards and they were dead.

What difficulty were you playing on?

From my experience, the Claymore can usually kill an enemy that is just protected by shields in one shot..

It only requires 2 shots (or 1 shot + melee) when the enemy has both shields and armor..

[sinosleep]

I checked on my old vanguard, found a spot where I was level 25 and had some side missions available. Went with tungsten ammo on the claymore and holy crap does that ammo turn it into a one shot machine.

[RamsenC]

Dannok1234 wrote...

I'll happly admit to that. I use it just the way you did, when taking on one enemy at a time it's superb. It's just when people are stacked together I greatly prefer one of the shotguns. (I can't seem to get comfort zone with the krogan shotgun tho)

Not sure why you would prefer the shotgun when people are grouped up since as far as I know shotguns do not pierce. You will just be cutting your damage in half trying to kill two guys at once.

Anyways I did some math, hopefully its correct. The Vindicator has a delay between bursts of 0.625s and each burst takes around 0.2s to complete. The 1.5s for the Claymore is the reload speed. I just listed how much damage each gun would be doing at different times.

note: Anything past two seconds is pointless, but its there for reference.

Vindicator 
111 in 0.2s
222 in 1.025s
333 in 1.85s
444 in 2.675s
555 in 3.5s

Claymore
200 in 0s
400 in 1.5s
600 in 3s 

Katana
110 in 0s
220 in 1s
330 in 2s

Scimitar
81 in 0s
162 in 0.6s
243 in 1.2s
324 in 1.8s


Things you should gather from this data:
- The Scimitar and Katana not good enough.
- The Claymore and Vindicator switch superiority at different times.
- The Claymore is better than the Vindicator at close range overall, but not better enough. 
- The Vindicator is deadly accurate at long range yet still competes with the shotguns.
- Why does the Vindicator compete closely with the Claymore at close range, but is blown away by the Widow at long range?

Modifié par RamsenC, 05 février 2010 - 03:14 .

[RamsenC]

I always play on insanity, but I was using fire ammo which takes a bit to finish off.



I'm sure if I used Tungsten ammo they would have all died in one shot.

[_Dannok1234]

Those numbers are a bit off. Scimitar seems to fire every 0.8 or so to me, not 1.2. It's not slower then the katana thats for sure

[RamsenC]

It actually shoots every 0.6s, but if you hold down fire it will slow down to 0.8s for some reason.



My 1.2s thing was a mistake, fixed it though.

[Graunt]

sinosleep wrote...

Or people just disagree. I play on insanity and think it works fine.

You spend more time crouching to heal your nearly dead health back than you do much of anything on the field, you really can't argue that point either because that's what both of your videos display.

[sinosleep]

Graunt wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

Or people just disagree. I play on insanity and think it works fine.

You spend more time crouching to heal your nearly dead health back than you do much of anything on the field, you really can't argue that point either because that's what both of your videos display.

I can't ****ing win with you dude. I play essentially pause free, I charge practically every enemy, I kill EVERYTHING on screen with the shotgun, Jacob dies 15 seconds into the video, and yet I didn't "do much of anything" on the field. I can't possibly kill enough **** quick enough without dying using a supposedly gimped ability and a supposedly gimped weapon to make you happy. I'm not allowed to use my squadmates, I'm not allowed to take cover, I guess I'm expected to charge into the middle of 5 man groups and just stand there shotgunning them all without taking a step all the while eating bullets cause they taste like chicken and letting Jacob and Miranda bang off screen. .....

Please, record yourself doing the same section I did in the last video, and show me just how gimped I really am.

Modifié par sinosleep, 05 février 2010 - 05:17 .

[OiBlimey]

Charge is weak at first, but gets a lot better when you've upgraded it.



And you have to learn when to use it. If you charge into a group, then it's your own fault.

[Kwonnern]

Charge gets much better as you upgrade it!

[Kronner]

RamsenC wrote...

Dannok1234 wrote...

I'll happly admit to that. I use it just the way you did, when taking on one enemy at a time it's superb. It's just when people are stacked together I greatly prefer one of the shotguns. (I can't seem to get comfort zone with the krogan shotgun tho)

Not sure why you would prefer the shotgun when people are grouped up since as far as I know shotguns do not pierce. You will just be cutting your damage in half trying to kill two guys at once.

Anyways I did some math, hopefully its correct. The Vindicator has a delay between bursts of 0.625s and each burst takes around 0.2s to complete. The 1.5s for the Claymore is the reload speed. I just listed how much damage each gun would be doing at different times.

note: Anything past two seconds is pointless, but its there for reference.

Vindicator 
111 in 0.2s
222 in 1.025s
333 in 1.85s
444 in 2.675s
555 in 3.5s

Claymore
200 in 0s
400 in 1.5s
600 in 3s 

Katana
110 in 0s
220 in 1s
330 in 2s

Scimitar
81 in 0s
162 in 0.6s
243 in 1.2s
324 in 1.8s


Things you should gather from this data:
- The Scimitar and Katana not good enough.
- The Claymore and Vindicator switch superiority at different times.
- The Claymore is better than the Vindicator at close range overall, but not better enough. 
- The Vindicator is deadly accurate at long range yet still competes with the shotguns.
- Why does the Vindicator compete closely with the Claymore at close range, but is blown away by the Widow at long range?

I do not think it's that easy. You have to include penetration, penalty for being too close or to far and friction(?) I think..just look in the .ini file.

[Graunt]

I take a vid you take a vid and let the forum decide what actually looks like it worked better in gameplay.

Even if the shotgun is marginally better upclose, and that's a big if, it loses for the simple fact that the Vindicator completely destroys it at a distance too.

I can't ****ing win with you dude. I play essentially pause free,
I charge practically every enemy, I kill EVERYTHING on screen with the
shotgun, Jacob dies 15 seconds into the video, and yet I didn't "do
much of anything" on the field. I can't possibly kill enough **** quick
enough without dying using a supposedly gimped ability and a supposedly
gimped weapon to make you happy. I'm not allowed to use my squadmates,
I'm not allowed to take cover, I guess I'm expected to charge into the
middle of 5 man groups and just stand there shotgunning them all
without taking a step all the while eating bullets cause they taste
like chicken and letting Jacob and Miranda bang off screen. .....

Please, record yourself doing the same section I did in the last video, and show me just how gimped I really am.

I already said I don't have a web cam, and I don't know why you're always so hostile as though the Vanguard is some religion of yours that I'm attacking.  You hype up the class and awesome shotgun damage and yet you spend more time healing than anything else.  Even in the videos where you're actually charging around, you're still crouched waiting for health just as much and so much while your charge is waiting to be used.  And when did I ever say anything about it being wrong to use squadmates?  Oh yeah, I didn't.

RamsenC demonstrated what a Vanguard can eventually do, but he was also essentially under optimal conditions that whole clip.  Solitary enemies that were right next to cover.  And what level were you in your first video and what level in the second?  He's 20 something which means up until fully upgraded weapons (and the bonus weapon), passives and charge the Vanguard struggles more than anyone and is basically a poor man's Solider because he has nothing to deal with long range besides the two hand guns and his class defining ability is more of a liability than simply sitting back and shooting.  Rocket launchers are especially painful for this class if you didn't take something like Reave.  Problem is, taking Reave or any bonus at the start for that matter simply takes away from the 20 points you need just to even begin playing the class.  The few good things it's for at lower levels is interrupts and also to knock down charging Krogans.

Modifié par Graunt, 05 février 2010 - 07:23 .

[shai-hulud-lama]

charge is just great. vanguard is the best class imho. In the beginning i almost died in every battle, but now it's just fun. too sad i completed the game already... no more charging till the next dlc .

[Starhaus]

XyA_DeathKnight wrote...

Hardcore. I don't see it mattering either way. I wouldn't even think about using it in the middle of any fight. Charge = death ... to the player.

Try it on insanity level, - its even crazier to try melee.    Insanity level requires massively repeatable biotic or tech powers since it could take dozens of clips to finish just one foe as everything has maxxed out barriers and armor now, even low level stuff.    Incinerate works moderately well on shields and very well on armor, so that is usually what I go with on Insanity, plus something to slow them down: cryo, mass pull, or slam.    Infiltrator seems best for Insanity IMO, since invisibility really makes positioning possible.  

Just imagine trying to beat on one foe 50 times just to kill it, all the while a mass of other foe is trying to kill you when just 2 or 3 of their hits will kill you... lol.