220 réponses à ce sujet

[Kyandid]

In advance, sorry for opening another thread about this. But I am a straight guy, and I'm really scratching my head about this one.

No homosexuality in KotOR was a-okay. It was a different time back then, and going through with something like that would've stepped on a ton of people's toes. It doesn't make it quite right, but 100% understandable why Bioware wouldn't go that route. Sure, after a male and a female, I felt Carth was a douche compared to Bastila, but I can forgive them for the inequality.

I was totally fine with Mass Effect 1's F/F scene because, for the most part, it was nonsexual enough to get by, and unique enough to not quite constitute homosexuality. Plus, for what it was worth, no-one in Mass Effect 1 was remotely likable. After three playthroughs, I really found myself internally detesting Captain-Shoots-My-Best-Teammate-Because-Her-Grandpa-Was-Embarassed Williams, Holy-****-I-Can't-Stop-Whining Alenko, or Boring-Representation-Of-An-Interesting-Species T'soni. Sure, I was secretly crossing my fingers that I'd get to do the dirty with Tali (P.S. : THANK YOU BIOWARE ) but what the hell, right?

In Dragon Age : Origins, they seemed to have gone all the way with a variety of romances, likable characters - the game wasn't quite as enjoyable for me as KotOR or ME, but I think the character development and complex morality system, combined with the interpersonal relationships made it stand out as the best social-encapsulation I've seen in a video game.

But Mass Effect 2 is just... weird. Liara's back for a 'lesbian' relationship or a heterosexual one, not a problem. There's some **** on the ship who tells me she wants to lick Garrus' wounds. Uhm, okay. She's a human. She's also bisexual. So now you have a purely sexual relationship open to females and males. But... the gays get nothing?

I mean, on one hand I can empathize with the 'eww gross, i don't want to draw two males doing it' element - but when you look at most of the sexual scenes in the game, they're actually pretty tame. (You don't even see Tali's face, ffs, and Garrus and Femshep just kind of touch foreheads). I guess I can also empathize with the voice actors - MAYBE - but then again, they did get two females to romance falling in love with someone else of the same gender, I don't see why they couldn't just copy+paste all of the dialogue and replace all the gender-specific pronouns just for a passable (if boring) M/M scene.

In conclusion, yeah. I'm a straight guy, I'm happy with Tali, and I don't really have any intention to play a gay character in all seriousness. (I'm also a liberal, which is why I made this topic, as I believe it is my god-given right to get offended about every single thing) but I'm still really scritching my head about this one. I can't think of a single reason why Bioware would (figuratively) shaft the gay community while putting in another lesbian relationship, ESPECIALLY when they had a gay relationship available in their last game.

Please shed some light on this, if you can, and please don't let this turn into another awful flamewar-****storm.

[izmirtheastarach]

The lead writers on every Bioware project seem to want to include it. I can only assume EA has told the they can't.



I would have loved to have seen an option with Alistair in DAO, and with Kaidan in ME1. Both of those characters would have worked great.



In ME2 though, it does not feel like any on the characters would fit will. My personal opinion, of course. And obviously EA feels that the audience for the game would not respond well. Nothing we say is going to change their stance.

[Bllasae]

Kyandid wrote...
In conclusion, yeah. I'm a straight guy,

LIES! ALL LIES!

[Kyandid]

Still, IIRC, Zevran was romancable as a male in DA:O, and EA was just as much a part of that as they were ME2. I just don't quite... get the logic.

I'm not expecting Bioware to suddenly patch in a DLC "Do The Nasty With Mordin" because of a forum post, I just really don't get why they'd go through the trouble of adding in another Female-Female relationship but leave out a male one. It's like a slap in the face.

LIES! ALL LIES!

okay you got me

i'm arguing in defence of gay rights while being in the world's flimsiest closet

Modifié par Kyandid, 29 janvier 2010 - 08:58 .

[Cryo84]

What are the F/F options? I thought they said there were not any this time.

Liara barely counts.

Modifié par Cryo84, 29 janvier 2010 - 09:02 .

[shinobi602]

Kyandid wrote...

In advance, sorry for opening another thread about this. But I am a straight guy,

Then why the hell do you care? I'm scratching my head on this one.

[Kyandid]

Cryo- You can also get with Kelly Chambers as a male or female shepard.



shinobi- I've been reading up on the game since it was leaked and I'm just flat out curious, really.

[HunterX6]

Kyandid wrote...

In advance, sorry for opening another thread about this. But I am a straight guy, and I'm really scratching my head about this one.

No homosexuality in KotOR was a-okay. It was a different time back then, and going through with something like that would've stepped on a ton of people's toes. It doesn't make it quite right, but 100% understandable why Bioware wouldn't go that route. Sure, after a male and a female, I felt Carth was a douche compared to Bastila, but I can forgive them for the inequality.

I was totally fine with Mass Effect 1's F/F scene because, for the most part, it was nonsexual enough to get by, and unique enough to not quite constitute homosexuality. Plus, for what it was worth, no-one in Mass Effect 1 was remotely likable. After three playthroughs, I really found myself internally detesting Captain-Shoots-My-Best-Teammate-Because-Her-Grandpa-Was-Embarassed Williams, Holy-****-I-Can't-Stop-Whining Alenko, or Boring-Representation-Of-An-Interesting-Species T'soni. Sure, I was secretly crossing my fingers that I'd get to do the dirty with Tali (P.S. : THANK YOU BIOWARE ) but what the hell, right?

In Dragon Age : Origins, they seemed to have gone all the way with a variety of romances, likable characters - the game wasn't quite as enjoyable for me as KotOR or ME, but I think the character development and complex morality system, combined with the interpersonal relationships made it stand out as the best social-encapsulation I've seen in a video game.

But Mass Effect 2 is just... weird. Liara's back for a 'lesbian' relationship or a heterosexual one, not a problem. There's some **** on the ship who tells me she wants to lick Garrus' wounds. Uhm, okay. She's a human. She's also bisexual. So now you have a purely sexual relationship open to females and males. But... the gays get nothing?

I mean, on one hand I can empathize with the 'eww gross, i don't want to draw two males doing it' element - but when you look at most of the sexual scenes in the game, they're actually pretty tame. (You don't even see Tali's face, ffs, and Garrus and Femshep just kind of touch foreheads). I guess I can also empathize with the voice actors - MAYBE - but then again, they did get two females to romance falling in love with someone else of the same gender, I don't see why they couldn't just copy+paste all of the dialogue and replace all the gender-specific pronouns just for a passable (if boring) M/M scene.

In conclusion, yeah. I'm a straight guy, I'm happy with Tali, and I don't really have any intention to play a gay character in all seriousness. (I'm also a liberal, which is why I made this topic, as I believe it is my god-given right to get offended about every single thing) but I'm still really scritching my head about this one. I can't think of a single reason why Bioware would (figuratively) shaft the gay community while putting in another lesbian relationship, ESPECIALLY when they had a gay relationship available in their last game.

Please shed some light on this, if you can, and please don't let this turn into another awful flamewar-****storm.

well even though in the real world there are ******, it is more acceptable to see lesbians rather than homos, cause many people think its disturbing even if some think its ok, the majority just find it not right and weird as **** that a guys says he loves u in the game, when u are just trying to be friendly with the guys.

plus the voice actors wouldnt feel comfortbale either doing all that acting, unless either he gets pay alot of money or he is gay or dont mind hanging around gay people all the time, many people just dont feel comfortable.

[Erode_The_Soul]

shinobi602 wrote...

Then why the hell do you care? I'm scratching my head on this one.

Because some people are capable of empathy, and can understand a viewpoint that comes from a perspective other than their own without having experienced it personally.

Or just general curiosity. I'm a bit curious as well, as Thane struck me as a fine candidate for a m/m (though that may just be Zevran's "flamboyent assassin" role permeating to ME2).

EDIT:

HunterX6 wrote...

plus the voice actors wouldnt feel
comfortbale either doing all that acting, unless either he gets pay
alot of money or he is gay or dont mind hanging around gay people all
the time, many people just dont feel comfortable.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that's not true, as the voice actors for Sheploo, Femshep, Kaiden, Liara and Ashley all recorded scenes for homosexual romances. They were just cut from the game at the last minute for some reason (except for Liara, of course, but I guess she doesn't count anymore).

Modifié par Erode_The_Soul, 29 janvier 2010 - 09:29 .

[Mikka-chan]

Hey, KOTOR had a f/f romance. It was buggy as heck, but there was something possible between female Revan and Juhani. It was actually sort of sweet, too, but that might be because I found Carth and Bastila both incredibly annoying and *anything* would be better then them.

Also, as nice as blaming EA is, I don't think they're at fault here anymore then they're at fault for water being wet. Yeah, they probably did a 'Dude, we have a budget to keep here, so only put in stuff that people are likely to see' (which every game publisher in the world does, so it's not like that's unusual), but I doubt EA did a 'ZOMG NO HOMOSEXUAL ROMANCE D: D: D:' routine. Dragon Age had them and that was fine, and the Sims 3 allows homosexual marriage without an eye raise (not to mention that, unless you use mods to change it, everyone in the Sims 3 is bi).

I think game designers often figure that a f/f romance is both safer and more likely to be appreciated then a m/m romance (then again, we had that 'Liara was not *really* a f/f romance option!' ho-down a few weeks ago, so). They probably are right about that, as much as I wish it wasn't so. Still, I do find it a bit '=/'. Would it really have been that difficult to make Garrus okay with males, or whoever? It's only a headbump

!I'm guessing the reason is one of three: the writers did not think any of their characters were bi or gay, the writers did not have time to add in a male bi or gay relationship considering the smaller audience for it (I'm still in awe that us female gamers actually got the same amount of romance options- amazing!), or the writers/developers/publishers did not think a male bi or gay relationship would suit the game and the market they were trying to reach. I'd sort of be interested in knowing which.

[DharmaIniative108]

Well theres a nice F/F romance with Morinth but it doesn't end well

[NKato]

Erode_The_Soul wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

Then why the hell do you care? I'm scratching my head on this one.

Because some people are capable of empathy, and can understand a viewpoint that comes from a perspective other than their own without having experienced it personally.

Or just general curiosity. I'm a bit curious as well, as Thane struck me as a fine candidate for a m/m (though that may just be Zevran's "flamboyent assassin" role permeating to ME2).

You just nailed it right on the head. There are people who are terrified of things they don't understand or refuse to understand/accept as something that actually exists. If I had my way, I'd be throwing those people into a giant burn pit, because I really, really, really despise closedmindedness - or at least, the lack of tolerance for people who are different from themselves.

Slightly hypocritical of myself, of course, but my point stands: If you're so scared of homosexuality, you don't have to involve it in your lives by NOT involving yourselves in THEIR lives. It's not that hard.

That said, I think Bioware kicked the puppy on this one.

[Valmy]

It is rather puzzling. It just seems to be absent for no reason at all. It cannot be a case of homophobia simply because of Dragon Age and what Mass Effect has already done...it just...eh I have no idea.

[Kyandid]

Hey, KOTOR had a f/f romance

I hadn't played the second. Sorry.

Well theres a nice F/F romance with Morinth but it doesn't end well

I excluded the romances that killed you.

It is rather puzzling. It just seems to be absent for no reason at all. It cannot be a case of homophobia simply because of Dragon Age and what Mass Effect has already done...it just...eh I have no idea.

WHICH IS WHY I MADE THIS THREAD. ._.

[RabidWHM]

I too find it surprising that there is no option for male option for Shepard .

There is a M/M relationship in DAO. My male elf had a relationship with Zevran with a steamy campside cutsecne to boot. It was kind of buggy with the ending sliders but hey we had something right? The part that bothered me was like he states in the game he likes females but "eh, I'm open minded". I did love my M/M romance and it was my favorite pairing.

I have to agree that it is weird that females can romance Asari which is an all female race (Offical ME2 codex states it as so) but male shepards do not at least have the option to persue another male.

Its okay to have bisexual elfs in a fantasy genre but no gay/bi aliens in scifi? I'm not a trekie or a crazed starwars fantic so i'm not sure if this idea of gay aliens is found in this genre.

*edit* Someone said EA cut the plans for a male LI for shepard. I don't know if this could be the case. I mean that would be very hypocritical of them because I play the sims3 and your Sims can be Gay.

Modifié par RabidWHM, 29 janvier 2010 - 10:09 .

[NKato]

I think it's an intentional slight on their part.

[Kyandid]

NKato wrote...

I think it's an intentional slight on their part.

I do too. I really don't think everyone at the Bioware offices was like "Yup, fleshed out this game, bunch of new romance options, removed the crouch button, more guns, more enemies, less levelling up... everything on our to do list is done.

...

****, WE FORGOT THE GAYS!"



But I just don't know why.

[MrVincent]

I'm scratching my head over why this is one of the biggest issues with the game...



I think Bioware is just being careful, the already were falsely accused of putting full frontal nudity in a game. The last thing they need is Fox saying



"Here's a story, video games encouraging your kids to be homosexuals"

[Kyandid]

But that confuses me too, because there ARE two gay relationships in the game already, just F/F. If someone had it in for Bioware, they'd twist that just as easily as the M/M thing.

[Kyero]

since when was it ever a good time to put homosexual in a game? and when was it not ok for them to be in a game? they've been in animes and movies for many years before Kotor.

[Inverness Moon]

MrVincent wrote...

I'm scratching my head over why this is one of the biggest issues with the game...

I think Bioware is just being careful, the already were falsely accused of putting full frontal nudity in a game. The last thing they need is Fox saying

"Here's a story, video games encouraging your kids to be homosexuals"

I doubt BioWare gives a damn about what Fox thinks.

[tmelange]

I think ME is meant to be BW's mass market franchise, their foray into the military shooter market, supposedly dominated by He-Men who would boycott the game if a whiff of m/m romance tainted their Shepard in any way. I think it's easier to strategically market a fantasy-based RPG where the PC is a different person based on the person playing than it is to market Shepard as being straight in one playthrough and gay in another. I think it was a tactical decision, and, I suppose, with the way they've been able to pre-market ME2 and the great sales it's experiencing, it was the right decision for the company. It's really a shame, from my perspective, since I don't subscribe to the notion that Shepard has to have one sexual profile that stays consistent through every playthrough.

The funny thing is that in my first playthrough, I used a male Shep that didn't romance anyone in ME1 and who saved Kaidan. When I ran into Kaidan in ME2, I picked all the touchy-feely options, while simultaneously shooting down all the female LIs. When the executive assistant asked me about Kaidan, I responded with "I miss him". She gave me a funny look, and then later in the game, Jacob made a comment that, to me, seemed to acknowledge that my Shep wasn't into women. LOL I don't remember what he said but I like to think it was a bit of a nod to the nonexistent m/m.

BTW, the Salarian professor hit on me as a male Shep, and I suppose that could be a bit of m/m, assuming the professor is male...

Modifié par tmelange, 29 janvier 2010 - 10:35 .