220 réponses à ce sujet

[Biotic_Warlock]

Firstly i would like to say



AAAARGH!

Who broke the page!



Secondly, im all for gay romances.

[NKKKK]

If they were so afraid, they cold have made the romances sublte and the flirtation start from you WHEN YOU CHOOSE.

[sonsonthebia07]

Just realized that the topic was so friggen' old, but I only have a few things to say anyways.



Kelly Chambers was an easter egg.

The asari are monogender.



That said, am I against gay relationships in the game? No. Unless they are forced upon me,

[Biotic_Warlock]

sonsonthebia07 wrote...

Just realized that the topic was so friggen' old, but I only have a few things to say anyways.

Kelly Chambers was an easter egg.
The asari are monogender.

That said, am I against gay relationships in the game? No. Unless they are forced upon me,

Kelly is an easter egg???

[sonsonthebia07]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

sonsonthebia07 wrote...

Just realized that the topic was so friggen' old, but I only have a few things to say anyways.

Kelly Chambers was an easter egg.
The asari are monogender.

That said, am I against gay relationships in the game? No. Unless they are forced upon me,

Kelly is an easter egg???

Yes.

For Spanish, press 2.

[jlb524]

sonsonthebia07 wrote...

Just realized that the topic was so friggen' old, but I only have a few things to say anyways.

Kelly Chambers was an easter egg.
The asari are monogender.

And?  They are still f/f romantic content.  People that want m/m got nuthin'.

[sonsonthebia07]

jlb524 wrote...

sonsonthebia07 wrote...

Just realized that the topic was so friggen' old, but I only have a few things to say anyways.

Kelly Chambers was an easter egg.
The asari are monogender.

And?  They are still f/f romantic content.  People that want m/m got nuthin'.

It's not the same thing. She dances and cuddles at the end to serve the people who stayed faithful to LIs in the first game a "bonus".

But you are correct, it is "still f/f content". Perhaps they should have had Gardner head up and dance or something as a side option.

[Biotic_Warlock]

There is a very large percentage of gay people in the US and UK. I am one of them. I like games having gay content in them for realism terms, i sometimes feel anxious whenever many popular games lack this.

[jlb524]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

There is a very large percentage of gay people in the US and UK. I am one of them. I like games having gay content in them for realism terms, i sometimes feel anxious whenever many popular games lack this.

That, and there are straight-folks that can appreciate s/s romances as well.  It's not as if only LGBT gamers can enjoy or find value in a s/s romance.

[sonsonthebia07]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...



There is a very large percentage of gay people in the US and UK. I am one of them. I like games having gay content in them for realism terms, i sometimes feel anxious whenever many popular games lack this.

It is also very real and possible to have a ship full of heterosexuals. Or a ship full of heterosexuals and a few bis. Etc, etc.



Like I said, I'm not against it or anything. If it goes well with the story and the character presented, I'm all for it. I'm trying to see where you're coming from, and if I switch my point of view around and think about a game with a crew of only homosexual crew members, it would be very awkward indeed for me. So I think I can somewhat see the point here.



I apologize if I sound ignorant in any way.

[Wittand25]

sonsonthebia07 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

sonsonthebia07 wrote...

Just realized that the topic was so friggen' old, but I only have a few things to say anyways.

Kelly Chambers was an easter egg.
The asari are monogender.

And?  They are still f/f romantic content.  People that want m/m got nuthin'.

It's not the same thing. She dances and cuddles at the end to serve the people who stayed faithful to LIs in the first game a "bonus".

But you are correct, it is "still f/f content". Perhaps they should have had Gardner head up and dance or something as a side option.

She only does that if you romance her, and it has been said that the Kelly fling does get carried over to Me3 and will have consequences. To stay faithful Shepard has to avoid romancing Kelly too.

[jmood88]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

There is a very large percentage of gay people in the US and UK. I am one of them. I like games having gay content in them for realism terms, i sometimes feel anxious whenever many popular games lack this.

There are so few games that have gay content that you must feel anxious all the time.

[Eromenos]

I came across this thread while doing some digging on the topic, so I'm responding to multiple old posts here in sequence.

Still, IIRC, Zevran was
romancable as a male in DA:O, and EA was just as much a part of that as they
were ME2. I just don't quite... get the logic.

We have to keep in mind that the M/M and F/F possibilities in DA:O existed on the condition that they be outnumbered by potential M/F couplings. Like FOX News' script that portrays a minimum of 2 conservatives for every 1 centrist liberal.

But in ME2, disproportionate variety is M/M = 0 while F/F is only allowed to be a segment of the M/F, which itself = all flirtations along with romances, so the number of heterocentric behavior in ME2 is a equivalent to no less than every sexual or non-sexual encounter Shepard might become involved in. Some of the circumstances were "expanded to include" F/F for titillation, but it's worth noting that there are no exclusively F/F engagements for Shepard. Asari pureblood families are all cast as miserable and ostracized in some degree. The mixed families are "functional." BioWare commands that female NPCs "accessible" to Commander Jane Shepard are not allowed to be frigid towards Commander John Shepard. Yet BioWare is completely fine with the reverse scenario.

The M/F interactions were allowed to be exclusively heterosexual.We see no same-sex flirtations/romance/sexuality of any kind lest the NPCs in question were also "hungry for it" from opposite-sex Shepards too. If anyone found something different, please point it out.

well even though in the
real world there are ******, it is more acceptable to see lesbians rather than
homos, cause many people think its disturbing even if some think its ok, the
majority just find it not right and weird as **** that a guys says he loves u
in the game, when u are just trying to be friendly with the guys.



plus the voice actors wouldnt feel comfortbale either doing all that acting,
unless either he gets pay alot of money or he is gay or dont mind hanging
around gay people all the time, many people just dont feel comfortable.

Welcome to how the other side has to live in BioWare games. My guys aren't allowed to be friends with the women lest BioWare's scripts treat my behavior as an opening for the females to climb on top of me. I have to be a douche when I say no to them(in cases where I'm even allowed that chance) or I have to avoid them altogether.

The difference between us is that you're still given the choice of "getting with" the women you like. You don't lack for companionship in ME2. Gay gamers have it different- BioWare forces every male NPC to exclusively engage in or to talk about female attraction in ME and ME2, while forcing most of the female NPCs to constantly eye us up.

I agree that it's best if via some miracle BioWare can learn to write ANY meaningful platonic friendships with NPCS who are potential love interests. Gaining permission for shenanigans should take some effort and complexity beyond "time spent" usually gunning at people who the woman NPC has problems with. BioWare seems to be suffering from lack of imagination...

You commented about straight actors shunning M/M publicity, but there are exceptions to your general statement. James Franco's a notable "repeat-offender" in that he's bankable masculine Hollywood sex-appeal and earnest in portraying M/M sexuality. Why yes, Franco maintains both. He's an A-lister too. None of the BioWare actors currently have such status, so the smarter ones among them are grateful to have this. Certainly, there are some at any level of privilege who would recoil in panic as you suggested. But aside for Adam Baldwin, I can't think of anyone in the principle cast who might be snotty about supporting M/M.

Meeting Kaiden in ME2 was
like meeting an angry boyfriend lol. I felt awkward with my roommate watching
me play the game and myself being gay.



Bioware made me sad on this front

BioWare faced a dilemma there. Obviously they'd give service to the fans of exclusively M/F human-couplings from ME1. Yet to allow themselves room to write for ME3 and to hoard resources, the human LI's roles in ME2 had to remain small and ambiguous. The lines and attitude of an overjoyed friend had to be made serviceable and even overlapping in cases if said NPC also was an overjoyed lover. Anything that suggested M/M or F/F from there is not something BioWare will allow to be canon, and whatever hints we may like to salvage from the reunion are not the work of any sympathy or charity on BioWare's part. Makes me sad, too. My opinion is that this particular incident was no more than a coincidental side-effect of BioWare's focus on the plot.

Well, it has to make
sense in the narrative, and with characters. In the first Mass Effect, there is
no girl-on-girl. Asari are not female, as has been said a million times; they
are asexual. It's like having sex with a blow-up doll--as female as it may
appear, it's still an inflated piece of plastic. Also, Kelly Chambers is a
secretary with a huge amount of respect for Shepard, willing to do anything for
attention, and to please him/her. The Monica Lewinsky of Mass Effect, if you
will.



Jacob: Not Gay



Kaiden: Somehow, Not Gay.



Thane: Not Gay



Garrus: Definitely Not Gay



You can't force a hetero character in to sexual ambiguity. And before you say,
"We can still use a gay male squad mate," think about it: most gay
guys are effeminate. I can't see Richard Simmons taking out a Reaper. So unless
it is one of those butch gay dudes who looks like Michael Clarke Duncan, I
don't see it.

In your own way, it's nice to see that you're also unimpressed with BioWare's exploitation of F/F and women via use of their copyright asari. But I have to disagree about asari not being females, though. They and everyone else in the ME-universe were written to consider asari as female, the codex does too, and their shapes are fundamentally identical to those of human women in ME. BioWare's claim that asari are not female and thus no F/F exists is just a thin lie defending exploitation at best.

Tali, Miranda, Liara, Samara, and Kasumi happen to be feminine women who are also more than capable in their roles as heroes to the galaxy. As for Shepards, each one combines healthy quantities of both masculinity and femininty regardless of perceived sexual orientations, or morality. Each of them carries a lot of appeal from both categories. And all 4 of the men you listed have these as well. Yet you assume that gay/bi men must be weighted towards feminine which is wrong to contend on at least two of the most basic counts- your incorrect assertion that we are, and your incorrect assumption that it cannot compute to witness us as being anything else.

"Can't force a hetero character in to..." Really, now. Masculine male does not equal to straight male, neither does feminine male signify a gay male. Take the example of gay actor John Barrowman, the action-hero Captain Jack who couples with men and women and whatever on Torchwood. Does his masculinity differ too greatly from Commander Shepard's? Both are leaders, both get a lot due to scripted performances, and both are alternatively heroes and badasses. Queer gamers enjoy being Commander Shepard even through disgust with BioWare's discrimination. Our presence is proof enough that the precious "universal appeal" of ME does work.

I think some of it comes
down to the way ME is structured compared with DAO. Having no pc voiceover in
DAO makes it a lot easier. I love Meer as a voice actor but I can't really hear
a believable gay romance coming out of his mouth.

Your assumption is that Mark Meer is straight. Let's work with that. Witness Sasha Roiz, another actor who is straight and bears accompanying archetypical physical characteristics. Yet Roiz's gay character Sam Adama in Caprica defied unnecessary stereotypes by contributing narrative and action to a big picture. I realize it's hard for some people to accept that gay men aren't all impatiently waiting to be handed fashion magazines, because to date Torchwood and Caprica are the only two significant forays in western scifi I know of in which we are more than what the mainstream feels comfortable to allow.

Modifié par Eromenos, 16 décembre 2010 - 09:50 .

[StarcloudSWG]

From what I've heard, Vanderloo is quite protective of his image, as is his right. Since its' his image being used, Bioware has to accept his wishes or remove his image from all three games and all promotional materials.

[Eromenos]

Allowing for full M/M in ME does not mean that Kaidan would automatically take the place of Liara or Ashley in the arms of Vanderloo's likeness in trailers.

I sure don't play with the default Shepard head.

But if Vanderloo's attitude happens to be true as you say, BioWare must be grateful to have seized such a coup. Gods know if Vanderloo had forbidden the use of his image coupling with a black woman, BioWare would've run the risk of insulting real people by signing him.

I just searched Vanderloo's image...ugh. The Shepard rendition actually flatters him.

Modifié par Eromenos, 16 décembre 2010 - 10:08 .

[Cra5y Pineapple]

Kyandid wrote...
Plus, for what it was worth, no-one in Mass Effect 1 was remotely likable. After three playthroughs, I really found myself internally detesting Captain-Shoots-My-Best-Teammate-Because-Her-Grandpa-Was-Embarassed Williams, Holy-****-I-Can't-Stop-Whining Alenko, or Boring-Representation-Of-An-Interesting-Species T'soni. Sure, I was secretly crossing my fingers that I'd get to do the dirty with Tali (P.S. : THANK YOU BIOWARE ) but what the hell, right?

Anyway, I will side with your cause, also because I agree with everything you just said.

Modifié par Cra5y Pineapple, 16 décembre 2010 - 10:55 .

[spacehamsterZH]

I generally think some people put way, way, WAY too much emphasis on the romance options in these games. They aren't freakin' dating sims, get over it already.



That said, what really bothers me about the absence of m/m "romance" is that it just seems like such a specific and intentional omission, and the reasons that have been given for it sound like excuses for... whatever the real reasons were. You can argue about Asari physiology or the extent to which Kelly Chambers is a "full romance option" all day long, in the end they both clearly result in two people with ****** getting sexually involved. Meanwhile, m/m sex cutscenes were actually produced for ME1 and then pulled from the final product. And that just smacks of "I'm cool with homosexuality as long as both chicks are hot."



Especially given that the same developer had no problem with including m/m sex in Dragon Age: Origins. It just makes you wonder what that means as far as who Bioware intends these games for.



I'm a straight male, by the way, and I have zero interest in playing my Shepard as a hoberseggshel. But that's totally beside the point.

[Destroy Raiden_]

For the same reason they don’t have ME1 style alien/human sex scenes no animator wants to be stuck rendering it 24/7 your asking an entire department to be embarrassed, uncomfortable, or go against their religious beliefs just so you can have an m/m relationship on console. They had thane as an m/m and took it out the dialogue probably didn’t even get past phase one and definitely didn’t make it to final mission luv the devs already said Mshep is straight so = no male lovin’ that’s why fanfics where born to do impossible things that the games, movies, Tvshows won’t do or cover

[TexasToast712]

The thing is that it doesnt matter who you are, watching 2 lesbians getting it on is always more awesome than watching 2 dudes butt ****ing each other. THAT is why there are no m/m relations in Mass Effect.

And for the record, FemSheps getting it on with Asari isnt considered F/F.

Technically Asari dont have a gender.

Iam not against M/M. Iam just stating the obvious.

Modifié par TexasToast712, 16 décembre 2010 - 11:32 .

[Xilizhra]

The thing is that it doesnt matter who you are, watching 2 lesbians getting it on is always more awesome than watching 2 dudes butt ****ing each other. THAT is why there are no m/m relations in Mass Effect.

This is probably the dumbest thing ever said on this forum. I'm actually somewhat in awe.

[betd2]

I always thought it was funny that MShep is Straight but FemShep is Bi

[TexasToast712]

Xilizhra wrote...

The thing is that it doesnt matter who you are, watching 2 lesbians getting it on is always more awesome than watching 2 dudes butt ****ing each other. THAT is why there are no m/m relations in Mass Effect.

This is probably the dumbest thing ever said on this forum. I'm actually somewhat in awe.

Sorry, its the truth. If you read the whole post you would realize I really dont have a problem with M/M.

[Undertone]

Xilizhra wrote...

The thing is that it doesnt matter who you are, watching 2 lesbians getting it on is always more awesome than watching 2 dudes butt ****ing each other. THAT is why there are no m/m relations in Mass Effect.

This is probably the dumbest thing ever said on this forum. I'm actually somewhat in awe.

You and I never see an eye to eye on anything but I do agree with you on this one 100 percent.

[colossus50000]

Not this disgusting stuff again