30 réponses à ce sujet

[JKoopman]

So Joker's excuse is that after the Normandy SR-1 was destroyed he was "grounded" by the Alliance and so he joined up with Cerberus to fly again (note: Why would the Alliance ground their top pilot? Wouldn't they immediately transfer him to another posting aboard a starship? What use is a crippled pilot planetside?). Thing is, how would Joker have known that Cerberus would put him back in space? He had no way of knowing about the SR-2 at the time and according to the story it's existence wasn't even revealed to him until approximately 1 day before Shepard's awakening. For that matter, why would his reaction to being grounded by the Alliance be to join up with a known terrorist organization in the first place? What, there weren't any private corporations or civilian starships for him to sign up with? It doesn't make sense.

And Dr. Chakwas's excuse makes even less sense. So after the Normandy SR-1 was destroyed she was posted to a position on Mars. But missing being aboard starships she signed on with Cerberus to get back into space? First of all, if you talked to Chakwas in the first game she flat out told you that she had the option to open a groundside clinic but she chose to stay with the fleet. Why was it a choice then, but not now? Secondly... so her thought process was basically "I'm a doctor who's goal it is to help people, but I like being in space and the Alliance wants to keep me planetside so... I'm gonna join up with a known terrorist organization that I know has commited terrible crimes and killed many good people..... because that will help me to help people......... somehow?" Hippocratic oath, anyone? Do no harm? That's like the US Surgeon General signing on with Al Queda when he retires. And like Joker, there were apparently no space-based civilian med clinics or corporations in need of a good doctor?

Seriously, was this the best that BioWare's writers could come up with? It feels so hackneyed, it's sad. I would've prefered a brand new pilot and medical officer rather than having these two characters shoehorned into working for Cerberus in such a way.

Modifié par JKoopman, 29 janvier 2010 - 10:08 .

[Jetfire99]

I personally think they might have let slip to both of them that they were rebuilding the PC. They'd both follow you into the lion's den after all.

[Wrexercise]

I would say because the Alliance was trying to keep everything hush hush, as was the Council.

[Cypher0020]

Wow am I glad that someone did a topic on this. I could see Joker getting irked at not being able to fly... but joining Cerberus isn't exactly the way to go...



Unless Joker someone found out rumors of the impending threat, and somehow TIM indicated that Shepard was going to be revived?



Uhhhh plus... wouldn't Joker's skills attract TIM anyways?



Now Chakwas.... if you share the brandy with her... isn't it the stability she's searching for? Plus, I think she states in early dialogue she doesn't work for Cerberus- she's following Shepard, and she needs to take care of Joker too.

[Corti78]

Both of them had to know Shepard was coming back. Dr. Chakwas clearly states she does not work for Cerberus, she works for Shepard. Joker most likely holds the same belief, what other reason would he join Cerberus without knowing of the SR-2 until just days before Shepard's return? They trust and wanted to be with their old commander, thats what I see.

Modifié par Corti78, 29 janvier 2010 - 10:11 .

[Cypher0020]

But aren't Shepard, Joker, and Chakwas traitors now? Depending how ME2 turns out.... can they ever go back to being Alliance again?

[Nyaore]

Cypher0020 wrote...

But aren't Shepard, Joker, and Chakwas traitors now? Depending how ME2 turns out.... can they ever go back to being Alliance again?

I doubt they could honestly, though after all the **** the Alliance put the original Normandy's crew under after Shepard's death I doubt any of them would be keen on going back.

As for why they joined, my guess is that TIM somehow let it slip to them that Shepard was going to be brought back to life and that they would be needed to help in the upcoming mission. After all, Chakwas is one of the most skilled medical professionals in the Alliance fleet and Joker is likewise the most skilled pilot. Plus they're familiar faces that would help put Shepard at ease as he/she got used to working under Cerberus. I know my Paragon Shepard would have constantly been looking over her shoulder if those two weren't there to make her feel slightly more secure.

Modifié par Nyaore, 29 janvier 2010 - 10:48 .

[xMister Vx]

^ As much "traitors" as Shepard. And (mine at least) was reinstated as a Spectre. They're in his crew. End of story.



Personally I felt that they really came back for Shepard and nobody else. In fact, once you snoop around, you'll notice that not many people actually know a lot about Cerberus on the ship, and are more supportive of you than the organisation.

[izmirtheastarach]

For all we know, Joker and Chakwas both just joined Cerberus. Neither of them are surprised to see Shepard, so they know he is going to be working with them.



Joker is grounded, and Cerberus offers him a chance to pilot a new Normandy? What is difficult to believe about that?



And if you dig into Chakwas, one of the main reasons she is there is to look after Joker.

[elearon1]

My guess is as follows:

Joker was grounded because the Alliance was covering up the Reaper attack - so they wanted to bury anyone involved with it. They also transfered the doctor to a location she'd quietly disappear into. This sort of thing happens in our own world, so hardly surprising.

Then each of them were approached by Cerberus and offered jobs which appealed to them. (Joker may not have known about the new Normandy, but he was apparently being - or told he was going to be - used to pilot for them) Likely they were also let onto the fact that Cerberus intended to bring Shepard back - they fairly well suggest it to Liara in the comic, so we can imagine they would have done the same to these two.

Cerberus wants Shepard to have some of his/her old crew on the ship for a variety of reasons, so would have made it attractive by whatever means were necessary.

Modifié par elearon1, 29 janvier 2010 - 10:51 .

[Cypher0020]

I'd hate to say I like working for Cerberus... but I really grew attached to the crew, especially the playful banter with Daniels adn Gabby- I gotta make sure they live.



Plus my Shepard feels comfortable with Joker and Chakwas beside her in all this chaos....

[Nimander]

I look at Cerberus as much like the Technocracy in Mage: The Ascension.



Much of the leadership is corrupt and there's a strong group that are racist bastards, but there's also good people wanting to protect people.



I kind of hope Shephard can take over Cerberus and legitimize it in ME3. Kind of like how the Salarian STG and Asari Commandos are about. Cerberus would be, once cleansed, their human counterpart.

[kraidy1117]

It is very likely that Joker and Chakwas knew Shepard was being rebuild. They where not surprised and also remember the alience and the council wanted to hush everything up. Grounding Joker and putting Chakwas somewhere else is not far fetched. Also alot of people where vocal for Shepards claims about the reapers when the council tried to hush it up and TIM recruited them.

[LucidStrike]

I imagine they didn't join without knowing Shepherd was coming back.

Modifié par LucidStrike, 29 janvier 2010 - 11:35 .

[Mokinokaro]

If you ask EDI about Cerberus, she'll tell you the group is far from a united front. It's ran more like a terrorist organization with many different cells that operate independently and focus on single projects, so it's actually very likely what TIM tells you is true: he had no idea what the cells you encountered in ME1 were doing.



Likewise, some cells are going to be more extreme than others.

[Bigeyez]

I can buy Joker joining, because the Alliance grounded him wanting to keep everything hush hush and basically bury Shepards team. Chawkwas however is indeed a stretch. I could only really see her joining if they either outright told her or hinted at the fact they were trying to ressurect Shepard.

I completely agree that the reason she gives doesn't hold water. In fact if you sit down and drink with her after buying hert he brandy one of the dialogue options is Shepard questioning her reasons, because he knows she could have gotten a position on any starship she wanted to, because of her many years of service to the alliance. Her response is that she's really there to look after Joker, which I can believe, but is still a stretch in my eyes.

Modifié par Bigeyez, 29 janvier 2010 - 11:56 .

[NKato]

Mokinokaro wrote...

If you ask EDI about Cerberus, she'll tell you the group is far from a united front. It's ran more like a terrorist organization with many different cells that operate independently and focus on single projects, so it's actually very likely what TIM tells you is true: he had no idea what the cells you encountered in ME1 were doing.

Likewise, some cells are going to be more extreme than others.

Still, that's an issue. I don't know if I can even trust the Illusive Man. The first playthrough, I spared the station, and gave it to Cerberus. I saw a grin on the Illusive Man's face that made me VERY uncomfortable.

So I did another playthrough and had the thing blown up instead.

If I see any kind of response that raises questionable motives, I don't take chances with it.

[TOBY FLENDERSON]

Cypher0020 wrote...

But aren't Shepard, Joker, and Chakwas traitors now? Depending how ME2 turns out.... can they ever go back to being Alliance again?

No because Shepard is still a specter and above all law but the council, and they'ed never go after him after he killed 2 reapers, bacame a household name, and saved the galaxy. He could easily let slip about the reapers and because he's a hero everyone would believe him.

[Master Shiori]

Mokinokaro wrote...

If you ask EDI about Cerberus, she'll tell you the group is far from a united front. It's ran more like a terrorist organization with many different cells that operate independently and focus on single projects, so it's actually very likely what TIM tells you is true: he had no idea what the cells you encountered in ME1 were doing.

Likewise, some cells are going to be more extreme than others.

Not true.

EDI clearly says that idividual cells aren't aware of each other, but the Illusive Man personally oversees each of them and is always aware of what they're doing.
That's why Cerberus has only 150 people and never more then a few cells operating at the same time, since more then that would make it impossible for Illusive Man to micromanage the organization effectively.

[Aisynia]

Chakwas made it very clear she was there for Shepard.

[Multifarious Algorithm]

Joker I imagine would've been picked up fairly recently by Cerberus, probably in the last few months before Shepard wakes up? It sounds like he's been doing some work for them for a while, but Shepard was probably the bait to get him. One imagines Chakwas followed after that - indeed it seems like a lot of the crew might've been grabbed with some very thinly veiled allusions to the idea they'd be working with Shepard.

[Reiella]

Master Shiori wrote...

Mokinokaro wrote...

If you ask EDI about Cerberus, she'll tell you the group is far from a united front. It's ran more like a terrorist organization with many different cells that operate independently and focus on single projects, so it's actually very likely what TIM tells you is true: he had no idea what the cells you encountered in ME1 were doing.

Likewise, some cells are going to be more extreme than others.

Not true.

EDI clearly says that idividual cells aren't aware of each other, but the Illusive Man personally oversees each of them and is always aware of what they're doing.
That's why Cerberus has only 150 people and never more then a few cells operating at the same time, since more then that would make it impossible for Illusive Man to micromanage the organization effectively.

And during the first ME, I'm sure it's possible to have killed more than 150 Cereberus members .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Joker no, Chakwas a little. But she gave a pretty good explanation IMO :X

[Suron]

this may have been said but:



You're ok with Shepard being re-grown from decayed burnt and decomposed flesh....to be exactly as he was before he "died"



but you're not ok with Joker/Chakwas working for Cerberus???



ok then....



lol whatever

[Suron]

Mokinokaro wrote...

If you ask EDI about Cerberus, she'll tell you the group is far from a united front. It's ran more like a terrorist organization with many different cells that operate independently and focus on single projects, so it's actually very likely what TIM tells you is true: he had no idea what the cells you encountered in ME1 were doing.

Likewise, some cells are going to be more extreme than others.

wrong..TIM oversee's all of it..ALL..OF...IT...

he knows of each and every cell...now in his defense he may not know exactly what lengths each cell goes too (which means he may not have known how Jack was treated) to accomplish their goal...

but to think he knows nothing of what each cell is doing shows a severe lack of intelligence