140 réponses à ce sujet

[Grahamers]

Bumping to help.

[Grahamers]

Ditto

[DocSigma]

I think one of the most important things to note is that any character you are controlling is under your control and tactics do not apply. It is only for AI characters controlled by the computer just to answer any questions from people wondering why their controlled PC isn't following a hands off the control or keyboard set of actions dictated by the tactics flow of "if, then" set of logic rules.

[pierpoint]

Ooo, seems that computer science degree is useful even in fantasy realities now. Yay!

[PatT2]

I even saw an action called "jump to tactic #" (or something like it). Was blown away. Yes, programming skills will be very, very useful here. Thinking like a programmer....



You can have tactics so that, your tank acts like a tank, selects out the enemy you want him to, and the healer concentrates on both the tank, and herself, (the healer is the one who uses most of the lyriam potions!) A dead healer is a dead team. I don't play the tank, but I decide what the tank should focus on...so the tank looks to me to decide...



I love this.

[Jesamyn]

Really appreciate this post on tactics. I understand how they are supposed to work far better now.

[Grahamers]

I am glad this is a helpful thread. Please keep the comments coming!

[Astalder]

If you're playing a melee DPS class I recommend the following, what this does is if you're using your main character your ranged characters will support you in a barrage of death so you can focus fire targets (even on console).  If you have to switch to your tank for example on a boss your melee dps will assist the tank (b/c it's now under tactical control) and so the ranged dps will follow suit. This has worked beautifully so far. The hitch with this setup is that advanced magic tactics will require personal execution, but you can't really script them well anyways due to friendly fire.  You can always do a better job yourself on PC, but if you're looking to play on normal or harder on console without pausing endlessly I find this has really helped.

Tank:
Heal pot at 50% health.
Taunt cluster of 2 or more.
Shield wall if surrounded by 4 or more.
Use attack abilities on nearest visible enemy.
Threat mode active always.

DPS warrior:
Heal pot at 25% health.
Debuff clusters of 2 or more.
Sweep clusters of 2 or more.
Assist tank with attack abilities (Riposte, cripple, etc).
Aura always active.

Mage:
Heal pot at 50%.
Heal ally at 75%.
Heal over time ally at 90%.
Mana/Stamina over time ally at 50%.
Assist melee DPS with debuff spells (freeze, weaken, etc).
Frost weapons active always.

Ranged DPS:
Heal pot at 25%.
If being hit kick stun.
Assist melee DPS with debuff/attack abilities (scattering, critical, etc).
Song active always.

Modifié par Astalder, 08 novembre 2009 - 02:59 .

[Grahamers]

Astalder wrote...

If you're playing a melee DPS class I recommend the following,...

Thanks for the suggestions.

The one change I would suggest is that you have your ranegd support attack the target of your tank, not the nearest visible.  They may pull agrro to themselves if they target someone other than the tank's target.

[miltos33]

Thank you and I think your post is worthy of a Wiki entry. Please do so.

[Astalder]

Grah if you have them assist your melee dps warrior they should still be OK, that way your dps train can target squishies while your tank tanks the baddies.



One change I'm trying out now is changing "Ally" to "Character".

[Grahamers]

Astalder wrote...

Grah if you have them assist your melee dps warrior they should still be OK, that way your dps train can target squishies while your tank tanks the baddies.

True ture.  I haven't figured out all of the nuances of threat gen yet so I have been having my tank gather the mobs, even teh squishies, and all my other npcs atack his target.  I am sure this will evolve!

[simpatikool]

Has anyone set up a good tactic that initiaites the Group Heal? The tactics can analyze one character, but I have not come across a condition that looks at group health. The only way I sort of discovered a work around was the Jump to tactic. I set up,



If Ally health > 50% jump to next tactic



If player controlled character health > 50% group heal.



That way the spell kicks off instead of just doing to heals.



For me, Wynne seems to be about out of mana in like 20 seconds.

[Mojo817]

DocSigma wrote...

I think one of the most important things to note is that any character you are controlling is under your control and tactics do not apply. It is only for AI characters controlled by the computer just to answer any questions from people wondering why their controlled PC isn't following a hands off the control or keyboard set of actions dictated by the tactics flow of "if, then" set of logic rules.

I'm not sure if this has been emphasized but it is in fact very important, especially if you are the type of person to select all characters for concentrated attacks.  If all characters remain selected and their target dies, they'll stand around and not check their tactics, so be sure to keep this in mind in more clustered battles.

[CPC-Yka]

Is there any way NOT to select any character, so that the combat is in full auto mode ?
Would be especially good for "simple" combat.

Modifié par CPC-Yka, 09 novembre 2009 - 05:35 .

[Nodrak]

simpatikool wrote...

Has anyone set up a good tactic that initiaites the Group Heal? The tactics can analyze one character, but I have not come across a condition that looks at group health. The only way I sort of discovered a work around was the Jump to tactic. I set up,

If Ally health > 50% jump to next tactic

If player controlled character health > 50% group heal.

That way the spell kicks off instead of just doing to heals.

For me, Wynne seems to be about out of mana in like 20 seconds.

#1 [Ally Health < 50%] -> [Jump to tactic 2]
#2 [Player Controlled Health < 50%] -> Group Heal

This will not work like you expect.  If #1 is true (an ally is below 50%) then it will proceed to #2 like you expect.  However, if #1 is false, it will still proceed to number 2, resulting in group heal being used any time your controlled character drops below 50%, regardless of the health of other allies.

A more detailed healer setup that includes a [Tank] character, 2 allies and the healer is as such:

#1 [Self HP < 50%] -> [Heal or Poultice]
#2 [Tank HP < 50%] -> [Heal]
#3 [Ally HP < 50%] -> [Heal]
#4 [Ally HP < 50%] -> [Group Heal]

You may want to swap 3 and 4 depending on prefernce.  Basically, this will cause the healer to heal themselves if they are hurt, if they are not hurt bad, they will heal the tank if they are hurt.  If neiter of them are hurting much, they will heal a critical ally.  Then we get to the group heal, since #3 takes precidence over #4, Group heal will only be used when Heal is on cooldown from healing the Tank, or another ally.  In this case, since heal was used on the tank, or the ally, and they are still missing health (the tank is an ally ), the healer will the cast group heal.  This is better in my eyes since group heal is a lager mana cost, and it is not always needed (if your tank is tanking a group of melee mobs, no one should be getting hit).

[makeshiftwings7]

Crackpipe1 wrote...

Here are the problems:

Health related:

1a) I at first had Ally Use lesser health potion; also had Self Use lesser health potion

1b) I and other allies still kept dying; so I bumped up to

This won't work like you think.  First, in case you're confused, "Self" always means whichever character your setting the tactics on.  It doesn't mean the main character (unless you're on the main character's tactics screen).  "Ally" means the other characters (not the character whose tactics you're setting).  So if you have "Ally < 25% -> Use Health Poultice", then that means that if, say, Morrigan notices that Allistair has less than 25% health, then Morrigan will use a Health Poultice on herself, even though she might be at full health!  Probably not what you want.  Every character should have "Self < 25% -> Use Health Poultice".   The only time you'd want to use "Ally < 25% health" would be on a mage that can cast Heal.  Then when they notice that Allistair is at <25%, they'd cast Heal on him.

[Gidzen]

Grahamers wrote...


First, understand that you don't do anything with the tactics menu while in combat.  It is a list of rules that the selected character will follow whenever they are in combat, so you don't open it while in combat, you set it up before combat. Imagine that it is a series of "If...then..." rules.

Does that mean when in multiple enemy advances only one strategy has to last throughout the entire sequence.. you can't change your tactics when the first wave expires unless you micro manage each player?

[Grahamers]

Gidzen wrote...

Grahamers wrote...


First, understand that you don't do anything with the tactics menu while in combat.  It is a list of rules that the selected character will follow whenever they are in combat, so you don't open it while in combat, you set it up before combat. Imagine that it is a series of "If...then..." rules.

Does that mean when in multiple enemy advances only one strategy has to last throughout the entire sequence.. you can't change your tactics when the first wave expires unless you micro manage each player?

No.  You can go to the tactics window any time you want whith the game paused and chaneg tactics.  You could set up a few custom sets for different situations and just pause and choose teh set you want to be in effect for each character and then unpause.  You could even edit the tactics line by line if you wanted to, but that would be annoying to do during each fight.

In my comment above was in response to a poster who thought that the ONLY time you go to the tactics window was when you entered combat.

:-)

[Gidzen]

Grahamers wrote...

Gidzen wrote...

Grahamers wrote...


First, understand that you don't do anything with the tactics menu while in combat.  It is a list of rules that the selected character will follow whenever they are in combat, so you don't open it while in combat, you set it up before combat. Imagine that it is a series of "If...then..." rules.

Does that mean when in multiple enemy advances only one strategy has to last throughout the entire sequence.. you can't change your tactics when the first wave expires unless you micro manage each player?

No.  You can go to the tactics window any time you want whith the game paused and chaneg tactics.  You could set up a few custom sets for different situations and just pause and choose teh set you want to be in effect for each character and then unpause.  You could even edit the tactics line by line if you wanted to, but that would be annoying to do during each fight.

In my comment above was in response to a poster who thought that the ONLY time you go to the tactics window was when you entered combat.

:-)

  Thanks so much  Can you rename the Custom settings?  I ginked up my default Alistar default logic by mistake by seeing how  the save worked... manual says I screwed it.

[Grahamers]

  Thanks so much  Can you rename the Custom settings?  I ginked up my default Alistar default logic by mistake by seeing how  the save worked... manual says I screwed it.

You can manually change them back.  I don't think tha there is a "reset this to the default "defender" tactic" button.  Perhaps someone who is not at work can post they settinsg for you.

[JHorwath]

I try to keep the tactics usage to a minimum. I turned all the AI assists off in Mass Effect and I use them very sparingly in Dragon Age.

[chuckm1961]

In my opinion, this is the heart and soul of this game. If this works well, this game will rock. If not, ... oh well.

[Forsakencritter]

Awesome job Grahamers & commenters.



/bump for some more love!

[Dylath Leen]

The tactics section is a great addition to the game (they must have taken note of the great AI mods created for NWN & NWN 2) but they really needed to explain the system in more detail in the manual (rather than putting it in the bloody Prima Strategy Guide). Obviously there are too many possible combinations for a complete guide, but they could have included more info than they have. I'm still not 100% sure why some conditions and actions are highlighted red (I presume because they cannot be used for some reason, eg wrong weapon equipped).



Anyway, thanks to the OP for producing something Bioware didn't.