51 réponses à ce sujet

[Spinnazie]

FROST4584 wrote...

Galluskek wrote...

I just can't see why anyone would blow up th Collector base. It just seems so counter productive, considering the threat that the Reapers pose, and the knowledge that it could bring. I mean, it isn't like you are killing babies or kittens in order to do this research. Or that Cerberus would be able to get millions of humans in the converters to build their own Reaper.

As a paragon irl (if my scar-free face is any indication), I think that blowing it up was a very stupid and renegade thing to do. It feels like you blew the damn thing to bits in order to stick a figurative finger up at TIM, not any moral logic.

Anyways, what reason did you have for blowing up the base?

Or if you're like me, why in gods name would anyone blow up this precious resource?!

I agree with you. Also I am disapointed at the options bioware have given us. The Collector base has lots of secrets why would you just blow it up? It makes NO SENSE at all from a miltary point of view and out  right dumb, just because many humans died. He was right in terms of using reaper tech against them ot even find out a weakness.

Back to the disspointment in options. Shepard could have made a joiint-opts between cerbures and the Alliance, the council. Myself I would opted that every major faction ( the good guys in general humans, Turian, Salians, ect) would  work together to uncover its secrets. I always play the good guy, and rarely go with evil way of doing things. I hate the face that my crew disagrees with my choice not to destory the collector base. Not one person agree with me one the ship. In real life most people would agree.

In short their were better options than the two that was offered at the end.

That's so narrowminded it's not even funny....did you forget what happened in ME1???

The Reapers GAVE us Mass Relays and the Citadel, look what happened there.


EDIT: Not to mention it's pretty clear that TIM wants the technology to further Cerberus.

Modifié par Spinnazie, 30 janvier 2010 - 01:18 .

[Galluskek]

Spin****e wrote...
That's so narrowminded it's not even funny....did you forget what happened in ME1???

The Reapers GAVE us Mass Relays and the Citidel, look what happened there.


EDIT: Not to mention it's pretty clear that TIM wants the technology to further Cerberus.

It is a different thing to research and BUILD things from foreign tech than to FIND then lying around. We'll be able to see any absurd Reaper traps in the process of putting these things together, plus we'll learn how they are put together. Very little trap potential unless the scientists and engineers are really dumb.

Modifié par Galluskek, 30 janvier 2010 - 01:22 .

[FROST4584]

The point is the collector base could have something that can help the organic races to win. Humans, Sarlians, Turian, ect can destory the base at anytime. Why destory something outright that could hold value? It doesn't make any sense. Also Shepard should have had a choice in choosing a larger force aka a multi species project for the collector base. I was dissapointed in the options. There should have been a 3rd option, for a multi race investagion I have had choosen that, but I choose the closest option to it.

Spinnazie if that were the case why do races still use the mass relays more less the Citadal? Narrow minded please.

Modifié par FROST4584, 30 janvier 2010 - 01:32 .

[Corti78]

The Reapers built that base. I'm sure they'll have something in there to prevent it from being used by Cerberus to gain insights into them. Harbinger could possibly still connect to that base for all we know. Maybe even indoctrinate the people who are trying to study it, learn what Cerberus is planning and be prepared for it.

There are too many unknowns concerning that base and what the Reapers are truly capable of. Sovereign said in ME1 the reapers leave only what they want found. If they didn't want Cerberus or anyone else getting ahold of that base I would expect Harbinger to initiate some form of self destruct or something before he released control. He did not even attempt to which says to me this falls within their plans of possibilites and they may intend to take advantage of it.

Modifié par Corti78, 30 janvier 2010 - 01:37 .

[Spinnazie]

FROST4584 wrote...


Spinnazie if that were the case why do races still use the mass relays more less the Citadal? Narrow minded please.

The council refuses to even acknowledge the reapers, what do you expect them to tell EVERYONE in the galaxy?

There's no actual harm in using the relays now anyway. The Collector base is a totally unknown entity.

[Spinnazie]

Corti78 wrote...

The Reapers built that base. I'm sure they'll have something in there to prevent it from being used by Cerberus to gain insights into them. Harbinger could possibly still connect to that base for all we know. Maybe even indoctrinate the people who are trying to study it, learn what Cerberus is planning and be prepared for it.

There are too many unknowns concerning that base and what the Reapers are truly capable of. Sovereign said in ME1 the reapers leave only what they want found. If they didn't want Cerberus or anyone else getting ahold of that base I would expect Harbinger to initiate some form of self destruct or something before he released control. He did not even attempt to which says to me this falls within their plans of possibilites and they may intend to take advantage of it.

QFT

[Motion Blue]

I believe paragon options in ME1 said it perfectly, I don't recall it perfectly, but it went something like



"There is always a choice, you can do what is easy. Or you can do what is right. That is what makes a person great"



Illusive man created monsters using both Rachne and Husk technology, lost control in both cases. Imagine what he would try to do with Reaver tech.

[Galluskek]

Motion Blue wrote...

I believe paragon options in ME1 said it perfectly, I don't recall it perfectly, but it went something like

"There is always a choice, you can do what is easy. Or you can do what is right. That is what makes a person great"

Illusive man created monsters using both Rachne and Husk technology, lost control in both cases. Imagine what he would try to do with Reaver tech.

That's a good point, EDI did say that he always takes personal control of the experiments. Even limiting Cerberus' operations so he is always involved as much as possible. He's responsible for their silly miscalculations.

I'm starting to think it would be better to blow the place up if I can't give it to the wider galactic community.

[FROST4584]

Spin****e wrote...

FROST4584 wrote...


Spinnazie if that were the case why do races still use the mass relays more less the Citadal? Narrow minded please.

The council refuses to even acknowledge the reapers, what do you expect them to tell EVERYONE in the galaxy?

There's no actual harm in using the relays now anyway. The Collector base is a totally unknown entity.

You act as if there isn't  a science team could be sent to the collector base or even video tape could go over there and bring back proof of what they were doing or what they had done.  Word will get out anyways about the base. The ending choices of ME2 kind of sucked. I rather have the base , with its secrets.

"There's no actual harm in using the relays now anyway. The Collector base is a totally unknown entity."

So you would outright destory something without understanding what it is or what it can do?

The Prothens saved the day in ME1 because they studied the mass relay and the Citial. If they didn't study, all would have been lost in ME1 period. Again who is narrow minded?
 
I don't trust cerburus. Bioware made it black and white when they didn't have too. ME1 ending was plane enough save other races at the cost of human lives or hold back while your" allies" die. ME2's ending is just a setup for a 2nd enemy  IM for Mass Effect 3, reguardless of what you choose. Again I am very disapointed  by Bioware for "poor" choice.

Modifié par FROST4584, 30 janvier 2010 - 02:04 .

[agrue]

Voods07 wrote...

I blew up the base. Humans along with other alien races did just fine killing a reaper, they can do it agiain.

Killed one Reaper, at the cost of extremely heavy losses. Oh, and by beating ME2, you also killed the equivalent of a Reaper fetus.

Blowing up the base is like if Princess Leia decided to delete the Death Star plans. Yeah, it's an evil weapon good for nothing much other than committing genocide - but you're not trying to build your own Death Star, you're trying to find the hidden weakness so that you can blow up the one that's coming to get you. Except now, there's a whole fleet of Death Stars coming, and they've been wiping out all life in the galaxy periodically for countless aeons. Nice job breaking it, hero.

[Keltoris]

agrue wrote...

Except now, there's a whole fleet of Death Stars coming, and they've been wiping out all life in the galaxy periodically for countless aeons. Nice job breaking it, hero.

That thing you burned up isn't important to me. It's the fluid catalytic cracking unit. It made shoes for orphans. Nice job breaking it, hero.

Modifié par Keltoris, 30 janvier 2010 - 01:56 .

[Captain_Goodguy]

agrue wrote...

Voods07 wrote...

I blew up the base. Humans along with other alien races did just fine killing a reaper, they can do it agiain.

Killed one Reaper, at the cost of extremely heavy losses. Oh, and by beating ME2, you also killed the equivalent of a Reaper fetus.

Blowing up the base is like if Princess Leia decided to delete the Death Star plans. Yeah, it's an evil weapon good for nothing much other than committing genocide - but you're not trying to build your own Death Star, you're trying to find the hidden weakness so that you can blow up the one that's coming to get you. Except now, there's a whole fleet of Death Stars coming, and they've been wiping out all life in the galaxy periodically for countless aeons. Nice job breaking it, hero.

You know the data from the base in the the datapad. So maybe that could be used

[CynixV]

All those people playing Adepts on Insanity should be thanking the TIM hes the one that orchastrated humanitys biotic development. Its been pretty clear Cerberus is just a tool he uses to Further humanity on the global stage. He wants Humanitys dominance over the galaxy cerberus is the tool to reach those ends. Remember people he created this organization upon discovery of Alien life in the galaxy not... Before but im a renegade , Its the Greater Good would you kill 100 people to save a million? how about 1000 ? how about 10000 , Remember your choices in this game effect ME3 i think it be pretty ****** poor writing if suddenly TIM turns after all youve done for him when the reapers start invading he needs you to help defeat the reapers for humanitys sake if your not around its pretty clear the universe is toast.

[laffy007]

I kept the base.I think that even though ceberus is evil, they are not total ignoramuses. They tell you what you need to know. Would Anyone in their right mind go straight into a trap on a collecter ship?!hell no. When the council (human or otherwise) are on the knees begging for mercy from the race they didn't belive in, who's going to save them? Ceberus.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

laffy007 wrote...

I kept the base.I think that even though ceberus is evil, they are not total ignoramuses. They tell you what you need to know. Would Anyone in their right mind go straight into a trap on a collecter ship?!hell no. When the council (human or otherwise) are on the knees begging for mercy from the race they didn't belive in, who's going to save them? Ceberus.

Think about what you just said. Do you really think that Cerberus is going to save aliens?

[laffy007]

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

laffy007 wrote...

I kept the base.I think that even though ceberus is evil, they are not total ignoramuses. They tell you what you need to know. Would Anyone in their right mind go straight into a trap on a collecter ship?!hell no. When the council (human or otherwise) are on the knees begging for mercy from the race they didn't belive in, who's going to save them? Ceberus.

Think about what you just said. Do you really think that Cerberus is going to save aliens?

no but they sure as hell will save humanity. Thats all i care about.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

laffy007 wrote...

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

laffy007 wrote...

I kept the base.I think that even though ceberus is evil, they are not total ignoramuses. They tell you what you need to know. Would Anyone in their right mind go straight into a trap on a collecter ship?!hell no. When the council (human or otherwise) are on the knees begging for mercy from the race they didn't belive in, who's going to save them? Ceberus.

Think about what you just said. Do you really think that Cerberus is going to save aliens?

no but they sure as hell will save humanity. Thats all i care about.

Losing humanity in order to save it. Interesting.

[stylepoints]

laffy007 wrote...

I kept the base.I think that even though ceberus is evil, they are not total ignoramuses. They tell you what you need to know. Would Anyone in their right mind go straight into a trap on a collecter ship?!hell no. When the council (human or otherwise) are on the knees begging for mercy from the race they didn't belive in, who's going to save them? Ceberus.

Everything cerberus has ever done leads me to believe they are ignoramuses and should not be trusted with something of this magnitude.

[jegillan]

The ability to study Reaper/Collector tech is a major draw for keeping the station, but dropping it solely into TIM's hands is a bit too much. The insights from it might be able to turn the coming war though. EDI herself said that Reaper shields were impenetrable to any current weapons, and as such something new will have to be developed to fight them. As I said in another thread, each character I play through with is getting an end-game save with both choices.

[screwoffreg]

FROST4584 wrote...

Galluskek wrote...

I just can't see why anyone would blow up th Collector base. It just seems so counter productive, considering the threat that the Reapers pose, and the knowledge that it could bring. I mean, it isn't like you are killing babies or kittens in order to do this research. Or that Cerberus would be able to get millions of humans in the converters to build their own Reaper.

As a paragon irl (if my scar-free face is any indication), I think that blowing it up was a very stupid and renegade thing to do. It feels like you blew the damn thing to bits in order to stick a figurative finger up at TIM, not any moral logic.

Anyways, what reason did you have for blowing up the base?

Or if you're like me, why in gods name would anyone blow up this precious resource?!

 
I agree with you. Also I am disappointed at the options bioware have given us. The Collector base has lots of secrets why would you just blow it up? It makes NO SENSE at all from a military point of view and out  right dumb, just because many humans died. He was right in terms of using reaper tech against them to even find out a weakness.

Back to the disappointment in options. Shepard could have made a joint-opts between Cerberus and the Alliance, the council. Myself I would opted that every major faction ( the good guys in general humans, Turian, Salians, ect) would  work together to uncover its secrets. I always play the good guy, and rarely go with evil way of doing things. I hate the face that my crew disagrees with my choice not to destroy the collector base. Not one person agree with me one the ship. In real life most people would agree.

In short their were better options than the two that was offered at the end.

I agree.  The only reason I went back and destroyed the base in another save was because it seemed EVERY SINGLE member of my party hated the idea!

[Giantevilhead]

I think that keeping the Collector base will turn out to be a bad idea in the third game. In the first game, they said that the Reapers were too far away from the galaxy to use their indoctrination on people. However, Harbinger was able to control the Collector leader. That means there's probably some kind of technology on the base that allows for some kind of long range connection to the Reapers. I think that if you kept the base then there will be a mission either in a DLC or ME3 where Cerberus loses contact with the base and when you go to investigate, you find out that all the people have either been killed or indoctrinated and you'll be forced to blow it up to prevent the Reapers from using it to indoctrinate more people.

Modifié par Giantevilhead, 30 janvier 2010 - 05:02 .

[agrue]

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

Think about what you just said. Do you really think that Cerberus is going to save aliens?

Somehow, I think the aliens will be much safer if the creation of a human Reaper never comes to pass.

[Thalorin1919]

All though my main character is paragon, I chose to keep the base.



I looked at it this way. The Council basically tossed all evidence of the reapers into the trash, lied to the galatic community, and called me a criminal for working with Cerberus AFTER I saved there behinds two years ago.



The Council would make no progress. They wouldnt sent out ships to the Omega Relay for a study anyways, cause I was working with Cerberus. So basically, I was VERY frusterated with them, and I felt the Illusive Man was the only guy willing to actually committ to destroying the reapers.



The Council races are to ignorant to acknowledge the Reapers, and Cerberus is the only one powerful and willing to do something. I cant find why people didnt hand the technology over to the Illusive Man. It would provide advances in technology to destroy the reapers. Yeah, we killed ONE, after we almost got obliterated.



I trust the Illusive Man. He is witty, and he did pull some stunts. But he is the only guy that will perserve humanity and the galaxy. I dont know where you getting views that he would build some reaper and unleash his wrath on the galaxy.

[Remmy2112]

Cerberus failed to harness the power of the Rachni. They failed to harness the power of the Thorian Creepers. They committed atrocities against children to create all-powerful Biotics. They committed atrocities against Alliance soldiers to test the deadliness of Thresher Maws. Their science team was indoctrinated and killed aboard the dead Reaper. Their only successes were Project Lazarus, the Normandy SR1 and SR2 designs, and EDI. They're good at matters of politics, finance, and engineering, but little else. The Illusive Man sees an avenue of power, and as Samara puts it, does not have the wisdom to use it properly. The base represented too many unknown variables and dangers for it to be safely used, Cerberus or not. EDI said that the Collector base didn't have any meaningful cyberwarfare defenses, so she would have been able to pull data during the mission. That's about as safe as studying active Reaper tech can be, just look at the IFF.



About the only useful technological advancement made from Reaper tech was by the Turians, who took bits of salvage from Sovereign's guns and made the Thanx cannons, and who knows how costly that was. Reaper are like the Cthulu mythos, powerful and seductive, but ultimately far too alien and destructive.

[Dave of Canada]

If you say you're going to blow the base up, you see the Illusive Man's true colors starting to shine.