I would give it a 9/10 well worth $5 & the wait. Can't see why so many people give it a lower score. Plot, new details on Cailan, great loot, fun battles. I guess people expect too much for $5. I can't believe we get 45 min of content for only $5, i was very impressed & completely forgive Bioware for the broken promises. I'm sure they learned a lot from that horrible experience!
Thoughs on RtO
Débuté par
ericsa
, janv. 30 2010 02:45
Retour en haut
#52
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 11:59
Noviere
-
- Members
- 899 messages
There actually is a mage staff... It's in the Circle of Magi Chest, which requires a key. From what I've read, the only way you can get the key is if you didn't get it from the caged prisoner the first time you are in Ostagar at the beginning of the game.
#53
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 12:15
ericsa
-
- Members
- 203 messages
You can still get it, I think I got it from a charred corspe that was inside a cage. Probably the same guy!Noviere wrote...
There actually is a mage staff... It's in the Circle of Magi Chest, which requires a key. From what I've read, the only way you can get the key is if you didn't get it from the caged prisoner the first time you are in Ostagar at the beginning of the game.
I'm gonna try RtO with loghain now, he better be freaking sorry.
#54
Guest_Colenda_*
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 12:43
Guest_Colenda_*
Guest_Colenda_*
-
- Guests
At a guess, Zevran doesn't like the idea of lighting a great big fire in the middle of a wilderness teaming with darkspawn. Or, I don't know, maybe he's a closet roundhead.
I quite enjoyed RtO. As someone said earlier, however, it would have been nice if the companions had interacted a bit more with the PC, and I would have liked more dialogue options when it comes to the 'burn Cailan' convo. 'Light the fire!' (German option) sounds kind of pompous. If in the spirit of all those 'Tell him to keep away from me, Gorim!' lines you get in Orzammer.
The reuse of old cutscenes seemed a bit sentimental - okay for my dwarf noble PC, but I'm not sure how they would work with my city elf, who wasn't mad keen on Cailan 'So we're both from Denerim!' Theirin.
At the moment, I think I prefer Warden's Keep, but I may see things differently when I've gone through again with Alistair. I'd like to be able to read the dialogue in the toolset, but I don't think RtO has been included in the single player resources.
I quite enjoyed RtO. As someone said earlier, however, it would have been nice if the companions had interacted a bit more with the PC, and I would have liked more dialogue options when it comes to the 'burn Cailan' convo. 'Light the fire!' (German option) sounds kind of pompous. If in the spirit of all those 'Tell him to keep away from me, Gorim!' lines you get in Orzammer.
The reuse of old cutscenes seemed a bit sentimental - okay for my dwarf noble PC, but I'm not sure how they would work with my city elf, who wasn't mad keen on Cailan 'So we're both from Denerim!' Theirin.
At the moment, I think I prefer Warden's Keep, but I may see things differently when I've gone through again with Alistair. I'd like to be able to read the dialogue in the toolset, but I don't think RtO has been included in the single player resources.
Modifié par Colenda, 30 janvier 2010 - 01:19 .
#55
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 12:44
Noviere
-
- Members
- 899 messages
Weird -- I can't loot the caged corpse. It's definitely the same guy... Same cage, same exact spot. I'm pretty sure you can only loot it if you didn't help him before Ostagar was overrun.ericsa wrote...
You can still get it, I think I got it from a charred corspe that was inside a cage. Probably the same guy!
Modifié par Noviere, 30 janvier 2010 - 12:45 .
#56
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 01:00
blademaster7
-
- Members
- 1 596 messages
I don't plan on getting this but I've been reading the threads(and the wiki) ever since the first release on the 360.
Do you think Eamon will try to fix Alistair up with Celene? If you made him king that is.
Do you think Eamon will try to fix Alistair up with Celene? If you made him king that is.
#57
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 01:14
Maeves_Child
-
- Members
- 91 messages
I loved it. I've played through twice, once with Alistair/Wynne and once with Loghain/Wynne and it's a completely different show. I guess I could really care less about loot or time, this one was all about emotion to me.
Cailan's corpse made me sad and shivery. But oddly, looting Duncan's sword and dagger from the ogre actually made me tear up.
It was worth every penny just for the dialogue alone, although I wouldn't have minded a bit more interactive dialogue. I really liked how it stayed true to character. Loghain is tired, unhappy but unrepentant. Alistair is disturbed, but tries to lighten the mood.
5 stars IMHO.
Cailan's corpse made me sad and shivery. But oddly, looting Duncan's sword and dagger from the ogre actually made me tear up.
It was worth every penny just for the dialogue alone, although I wouldn't have minded a bit more interactive dialogue. I really liked how it stayed true to character. Loghain is tired, unhappy but unrepentant. Alistair is disturbed, but tries to lighten the mood.
5 stars IMHO.
#58
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 01:15
ericsa
-
- Members
- 203 messages
blademaster7 wrote...
Do you think Eamon will try to fix Alistair up with Celene? If you made him king that is.
I hope so, maybe that will get Loghain over his stupid orlais paranoia. Loghain was a complete **** throughout RtO too, didn't even want to grant Cailan a funeral pyre. He's a total douche.
#59
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 01:31
Locustus
-
- Members
- 15 messages
Of course I am happy that this DLC is now finally available so that we now finally can continue with our 'lives'.
And I am also glad to discover that the overall quality isn't that bad at all. In general I think it is of the same level of The Stone Prisoner, but I would rate Warden's Keep lower then Return to Ostagar, since it has a very chaotic story line (mainly a lot of questions and hardly any decent answers), terrible interaction with party members, and most of all a very inconvenient way of upgrading equipment (as mentioned earlier here). All with all, having to wait for RtO was worth it, and it restored (only a small) bit of my trust in BioWare's quality goals for now.
And I am also glad to discover that the overall quality isn't that bad at all. In general I think it is of the same level of The Stone Prisoner, but I would rate Warden's Keep lower then Return to Ostagar, since it has a very chaotic story line (mainly a lot of questions and hardly any decent answers), terrible interaction with party members, and most of all a very inconvenient way of upgrading equipment (as mentioned earlier here). All with all, having to wait for RtO was worth it, and it restored (only a small) bit of my trust in BioWare's quality goals for now.
#60
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 02:09
Sresla
-
- Members
- 427 messages
I really liked it. I played it through once with Zevran, Alistair and Oghren and once with just myself and Zevran (because, well... yeah <3).
Now, when I saw Zevran disapprove at the end, my initial reaction was... er, what? But then I thought about it and it does make sense. I don't see an assassin having a lot of emotional attachment to corpses, for him, dead is dead. I can very easily see him thinking to himself, "We have a bloody trail of bodies behind us that is perhaps a mile long or more. What does it matter if we leave another? A king dies as easily as a beggar, the only difference is how many mourn the passing." Keep in mind, too - he's Antivan, so he shouldn't/doesn't necessarily feel any sort of loyalty to the Ferelden nobility either.
As to the dialogue (I found this to be true in WK too), having certain characters in your party, there seems to be a priority as to who's going to speak at any given point. Zevran DOES say things, if you and he are alone, but if Alistair is with you (for example), HIS dialogue will override Zevran's at every point in RtO except when you get Maric's sword. If it's just you and him at the end, there's even a 'story screenshot' opportunity with him (but I didn't seem to get one with Alistair).
The one thing that makes me sad, is if you listen to the RtO dialogue, there's an exchange between Loghain and Alistair, which tells me that perhaps at some point, it wasn't the idea to have Loghain joining the Grey Wardens be a "crisis point" for Alistair. Unless there's some currently undiscovered way to get them both in your group (ya, don't I wish)? If that were the case, I'm fairly sure I'd have to re-vamp my ideal party set-up to be myself, Zevran, Loghain and Alistair.
Anyway, worth the $5 in my opinion, if for no other reason that it sheds some light on the whole 'Loghain goes around the twist' thing, with those three codex entries. That alone was worth the price of admission, for me.
Now, when I saw Zevran disapprove at the end, my initial reaction was... er, what? But then I thought about it and it does make sense. I don't see an assassin having a lot of emotional attachment to corpses, for him, dead is dead. I can very easily see him thinking to himself, "We have a bloody trail of bodies behind us that is perhaps a mile long or more. What does it matter if we leave another? A king dies as easily as a beggar, the only difference is how many mourn the passing." Keep in mind, too - he's Antivan, so he shouldn't/doesn't necessarily feel any sort of loyalty to the Ferelden nobility either.
As to the dialogue (I found this to be true in WK too), having certain characters in your party, there seems to be a priority as to who's going to speak at any given point. Zevran DOES say things, if you and he are alone, but if Alistair is with you (for example), HIS dialogue will override Zevran's at every point in RtO except when you get Maric's sword. If it's just you and him at the end, there's even a 'story screenshot' opportunity with him (but I didn't seem to get one with Alistair).
The one thing that makes me sad, is if you listen to the RtO dialogue, there's an exchange between Loghain and Alistair, which tells me that perhaps at some point, it wasn't the idea to have Loghain joining the Grey Wardens be a "crisis point" for Alistair. Unless there's some currently undiscovered way to get them both in your group (ya, don't I wish)? If that were the case, I'm fairly sure I'd have to re-vamp my ideal party set-up to be myself, Zevran, Loghain and Alistair.
Anyway, worth the $5 in my opinion, if for no other reason that it sheds some light on the whole 'Loghain goes around the twist' thing, with those three codex entries. That alone was worth the price of admission, for me.
Modifié par Sresla, 30 janvier 2010 - 02:12 .
#61
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 02:29
Gegenlicht
-
- Members
- 317 messages
What surprised me the most is honestly that I immediately stumbled over two minor inconveniences. Not really bugs, but a loot container with a VERY narrowly defined clickable area, and an area outside the Tower of Ishal where a texture wasn't properly aligned. But you'd think that with this much waiting time, they'd have all these little things squashed.
Content-wise, I thought it mostly traded on nostalgia. I'm fine with that, it worked well for me, and it probably works even better if you're fresh out of Lothering. Other than the redesigned Ostagar, however, this seems to have been done on the cheap end of things. I realize it's not expensive to buy either, but it felt closer to a high quality fan-made mission using a reskinned Ostagar area than a low quality professional addon. Few conversations for one, but more importantly there's a lack of sounds. I can see how they might cut back on music to capture the austere nature of the wintry Ostagar, but the Necromancer cutscenes also all seem very quiet, as if they'd forgotten to give them ambience.
At the end of the day, I liked it well enough. The Nug Crusher alone made my day. It just really didn't feel polished, and I felt that Bioware just threw some extra loot above and beyond Cailin's armaments at me (Duncan's blades, Repeater Gloves, Nug Crusher) to make me feel like I got something for my money.
Content-wise, I thought it mostly traded on nostalgia. I'm fine with that, it worked well for me, and it probably works even better if you're fresh out of Lothering. Other than the redesigned Ostagar, however, this seems to have been done on the cheap end of things. I realize it's not expensive to buy either, but it felt closer to a high quality fan-made mission using a reskinned Ostagar area than a low quality professional addon. Few conversations for one, but more importantly there's a lack of sounds. I can see how they might cut back on music to capture the austere nature of the wintry Ostagar, but the Necromancer cutscenes also all seem very quiet, as if they'd forgotten to give them ambience.
At the end of the day, I liked it well enough. The Nug Crusher alone made my day. It just really didn't feel polished, and I felt that Bioware just threw some extra loot above and beyond Cailin's armaments at me (Duncan's blades, Repeater Gloves, Nug Crusher) to make me feel like I got something for my money.
#62
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 02:33
ericsa
-
- Members
- 203 messages
Sresla wrote...
As to the dialogue (I found this to be true in WK too), having certain characters in your party, there seems to be a priority as to who's going to speak at any given point. Zevran DOES say things, if you and he are alone, but if Alistair is with you (for example), HIS dialogue will override Zevran's at every point in RtO except when you get Maric's sword. If it's just you and him at the end, there's even a 'story screenshot' opportunity with him (but I didn't seem to get one with Alistair).
Nice discovery! I'm gonna have to check that out.
#63
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 02:59
Caelamia
-
- Members
- 7 messages
I really liked it, and believe it was worth the wait (played PC version). Took myself as mage, Wynne, Alistair and Leliana. As far as I know, there were only four voice actors credited as having worked on RtO but Zevran actually speaks in Ostagar? Leliana indeed doesn't speak at all throughout the entire DLC, not sure any of the others do or not.
Things I found a little odd were upon giving the Joining Chalice to Alistair, I would have expected some dialogue or at least a reaction to it other than the standard +5 gift comment. In my mage playthrough (I played RtO after the epilogue) we left Anora in charge, Alistair and I went off to rebuilt the Grey Wardens. As it's a very important piece of your history and a Duncan memorabilia, not to mention vital if you're going to kick-start the Ferelden Wardens off again, I thought it deserved a little more spotlight. Even if you're only just past Lothering, you'd still have thoughts on it.
Like people have said, some great pieces of equipment and it was touching to have Alistair reunited with both his half-brother's armour and father's sword. The only thing I could have asked for was maybe a dialogue or two from Ali and Wynne, as others have mentioned, but no complaints here.
Thank you BioWare. Enjoyed it overall.
Things I found a little odd were upon giving the Joining Chalice to Alistair, I would have expected some dialogue or at least a reaction to it other than the standard +5 gift comment. In my mage playthrough (I played RtO after the epilogue) we left Anora in charge, Alistair and I went off to rebuilt the Grey Wardens. As it's a very important piece of your history and a Duncan memorabilia, not to mention vital if you're going to kick-start the Ferelden Wardens off again, I thought it deserved a little more spotlight. Even if you're only just past Lothering, you'd still have thoughts on it.
Like people have said, some great pieces of equipment and it was touching to have Alistair reunited with both his half-brother's armour and father's sword. The only thing I could have asked for was maybe a dialogue or two from Ali and Wynne, as others have mentioned, but no complaints here.
Thank you BioWare. Enjoyed it overall.
#64
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 03:14
Stutterwarp
-
- Members
- 1 messages
Post removed
Modifié par Stutterwarp, 30 janvier 2010 - 06:45 .
#65
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 03:14
StuartMarshall
-
- Members
- 196 messages
I finished it rather quickly and easily but enjoyed it, it had closure and meaning. I'm not the sort who obsesses over loot so played it more for the story and thought it was good enough.
Cailan's scene made me shiver too and I wanted to maul that Necromancer who kept taunting and running.
The lack of a corpse for Duncan makes me wonder if one of the big DLCs in future could revolve around him, possibly him pulling a Gandalf and still being alive? (Since there are so many LOTR comparisons and he is the equivalent of Gandalf, the sagely mentor)
Cailan's scene made me shiver too and I wanted to maul that Necromancer who kept taunting and running.
The lack of a corpse for Duncan makes me wonder if one of the big DLCs in future could revolve around him, possibly him pulling a Gandalf and still being alive? (Since there are so many LOTR comparisons and he is the equivalent of Gandalf, the sagely mentor)
#66
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 03:16
AndreaDraco
-
- Members
- 962 messages
Just finished it. I was a bit disappointed that Zevran hadn't any dialogue, but I've read here (some posts above) that he indeed has, so I will have to try that again.
Aside from this minor quibble, I thoroughly enjoyed the DLC. The story was nice and simple, and this linearity left a lot of room for emotions and goosebumps: I can't but approve this storytelling choice. RtO is all about emotions and nightmares, and I realli dug the melancholic feeling of the DLC. The secret documents were interesting enough, and they depict a very intriguing political scenario (what if Cailan put aside Anora and married Celene of Orlais? Oh my, Loghain would have gone mad! ^^).
It took me a little more than two hours to play through the entire area, and I'm indeed very satisfied. As soon as I gain Loghain during my second playthrough, I will have to replay it with Loghain to see how he reacts to certain things
Aside from this minor quibble, I thoroughly enjoyed the DLC. The story was nice and simple, and this linearity left a lot of room for emotions and goosebumps: I can't but approve this storytelling choice. RtO is all about emotions and nightmares, and I realli dug the melancholic feeling of the DLC. The secret documents were interesting enough, and they depict a very intriguing political scenario (what if Cailan put aside Anora and married Celene of Orlais? Oh my, Loghain would have gone mad! ^^).
It took me a little more than two hours to play through the entire area, and I'm indeed very satisfied. As soon as I gain Loghain during my second playthrough, I will have to replay it with Loghain to see how he reacts to certain things
Modifié par AndreaDraco, 30 janvier 2010 - 03:17 .
#67
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 03:58
_Aine_
-
- Members
- 1 861 messages
ericsa wrote...
I hope so, maybe that will get Loghain over his stupid orlais paranoia. Loghain was a complete **** throughout RtO too, didn't even want to grant Cailan a funeral pyre. He's a total douche.
For how many times Loghain talks about Maric and/or the Maker ( funny, similar words if you flip some letters lol) i thought it was out of character that he wouldn't somewhat quietly allow a proper burial. The times and the religion seemed to call for certain ceremony and reverence, for his faith alone not for any feeling for or against the dead. It would have been a completely sacrilegious thing, honor or hate aside. Beyond that, hat was his best friends son, love or hate the man in life, it just seemed off to me to dishonor his best friends child through death, regardless .... *shrugs*
#68
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 04:14
SinYang
-
- Members
- 370 messages
Banter or cutscene dialogues? only Alistair had the latter on cailan then at end.
Zevran's stuff was in banter comments. I'd have paid abit more if we had proper cutscenes really, this is where Warden's keep was slightly better imo.
I noticed this too, I hope not! Starwars homages/rip offs appear in quite a few games already. Origins was avoiding the *divine ressurection* mechanic, dead means DEAD in Thedas.
He was a good character that served his role well, died as any Grey warden would want battling the blight. The End. Anything else would cheapen the story of Origins & the lore.
Zevran's stuff was in banter comments. I'd have paid abit more if we had proper cutscenes really, this is where Warden's keep was slightly better imo.
The lack of a corpse for Duncan makes me wonder if one of the big DLCs in future could revolve around him, possibly him pulling a Gandalf and still being alive? (Since there are so many LOTR comparisons and he is the equivalent of Gandalf, the sagely mentor)
I noticed this too, I hope not! Starwars homages/rip offs appear in quite a few games already. Origins was avoiding the *divine ressurection* mechanic, dead means DEAD in Thedas.
He was a good character that served his role well, died as any Grey warden would want battling the blight. The End. Anything else would cheapen the story of Origins & the lore.
Modifié par SinYang, 30 janvier 2010 - 04:20 .
#69
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 04:21
mousestalker
-
- Members
- 16 945 messages
Nug whacker/crusher/hammer (can't recall the exact name and am too lazy to look) was tier 5 and gave an obscene amount of stamina, so is that the AW weapon?
#70
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 04:26
Llane Lightbringer
-
- Members
- 39 messages
Wait a few years and you'll be doing the same thing.Freckles04 wrote...
Although, can I just say I'm REALLY getting sick of Wynne harping on her age all the time and then getting upset when you agree with her that she's old?
#71
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 04:31
mousestalker
-
- Members
- 16 945 messages
SinYang wrote...
Banter or cutscene dialogues? only Alistair had the latter on cailan then at end.
Zevran's stuff was in banter comments. I'd have paid abit more if we had proper cutscenes really, this is where Warden's keep was slightly better imo.The lack of a corpse for Duncan makes me wonder if one of the big DLCs in future could revolve around him, possibly him pulling a Gandalf and still being alive? (Since there are so many LOTR comparisons and he is the equivalent of Gandalf, the sagely mentor)
I noticed this too, I hope not! Starwars homages/rip offs appear in quite a few games already. Origins was avoiding the *divine ressurection* mechanic, dead means DEAD in Thedas.
He was a good character that served his role well, died as any Grey warden would want battling the blight. The End. Anything else would cheapen the story of Origins & the lore.
Couldn't agree more. Recycling dead characters is the hallmark of bad comic book/soap opera writing.
#72
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 05:00
Noviere
-
- Members
- 899 messages
No one witnessed Duncan's death, and there is no body. It's not resurrection if the person isn't actually dead.
#73
Guest_Colenda_*
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 05:07
Guest_Colenda_*
Guest_Colenda_*
-
- Guests
Noviere wrote...
No one witnessed Duncan's death, and there is no body. It's not resurrection if the person isn't actually dead.
Yep. In mystery/crime fiction, you can't rely on someone being dead unless you've seen the body, and sometimes not even then. That trope's been around for ages. Wilkie Collins did it nicely in The Woman in White. Duncan narrating the DA epilogue does seem to be a pretty strong hint in that direction.
Also, does anyone here think Eamon knew about Cailan's Orlesian flirtation? It's hard to imagine that he could have approved, despite being married to an Orlesian himself. He presumably has someone in eye as a possible future queen, but that someone surely wouldn't be Celene.
And I can't remember, but Celene doesn't actually write anything about marrying Cailan, does she? Would Cailan be that stupid?
#74
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 05:11
AndreaDraco
-
- Members
- 962 messages
Colenda wrote...
Also, does anyone here think Eamon knew about Cailan's Orlesian flirtation? It's hard to imagine that he could have approved, despite being married to an Orlesian himself. He presumably has someone in eye as a possible future queen, but that someone surely wouldn't be Celene.
And I can't remember, but Celene doesn't actually write anything about marrying Cailan, does she? Would Cailan be that stupid?
Well, if Anora couldn't conceive a child, and if the King was truly talking about an alliance between Ferelden and Orlais, what better method to cement that alliance than a wedding between the King and the Empress? I'm not saying that this was the case, but this is surely the first idea that popped into my mind when I read the three letters.
#75
Posté 30 janvier 2010 - 05:13
ejoslin
-
- Members
- 11 745 messages
AndreaDraco wrote...
Colenda wrote...
Also, does anyone here think Eamon knew about Cailan's Orlesian flirtation? It's hard to imagine that he could have approved, despite being married to an Orlesian himself. He presumably has someone in eye as a possible future queen, but that someone surely wouldn't be Celene.
And I can't remember, but Celene doesn't actually write anything about marrying Cailan, does she? Would Cailan be that stupid?
Well, if Anora couldn't conceive a child, and if the King was truly talking about an alliance between Ferelden and Orlais, what better method to cement that alliance than a wedding between the King and the Empress? I'm not saying that this was the case, but this is surely the first idea that popped into my mind when I read the three letters.
It would explain why Eamon doesn't sound very happy over the Cousland wedding to Alistair for sure.
Edit: Formatting
Modifié par ejoslin, 30 janvier 2010 - 05:13 .
