34 réponses à ce sujet

[Lykaon63]

The jury seems to be out on that as far as I've read and I wonder if anyone has done the tests or noticed.  I was aiming to make a stealthy archer type, but if the rogue can't enjoy it's backstab ability with a bow then that might be a waste of time.

Anyone know?

[Wolff Laarcen]

I think any successful attack from stealth is an automatic crit - ranged included - but i dont believe range attacks can backstab.

[GlassRain]

Yes, its an automatic critical hit from stealth but you can't flank and get the "back stab" only out of shadow for archers I believe.

[Lykaon63]

So you can't flank, but there is a concept of 'hiding' in the shadows to get damage bonuses? Is that true for rogues and warriors?

[GlassRain]

Its a sneak attack. You can't flank with ranged weapons so no sneak attack, but as per the stealth description the attack directly out of stealth is an automatic critical. Sneak is an activated mode, warriors do not receive the talent.

[manneger]

Are you sure flanking isn't possible with ranged weapons?

[GlassRain]

Unless I am very much fail on my tactics, I've never been able to get multiple critical hits while firing into the enemies back.

[Lykaon63]

So what's the point of being a Rogue archer? Other than that initial attack out of stealth, it sounds like a rogue archer would just be a gimped warrior archer.

[manneger]

Yes, if they cannot flank then there are very few rogue talents they would be able to make use of, and really shouldnt be worth taking a couple of wortless abilities to get a good one later on in the talenttree.



Should make them the worst damagedealers by far. The only pro being extra skills.



I was planning to go dalish rogue archer for my second playthrough, but i guess i might do something else then..

[Gedderone]

Getting range on a close range Area of Effect mob - basically so you don't get killed or waste the healer's mana. Using a bow in that case would give you a bit of extra damage without the damage.

Another reason to use a bow as a rogue is to pick off enemies on a ledge that would take a while to get to. Putting a few points in archery would help in either case.

Just because you put points in a tree doesn't mean you are limited to just that weapon type.

[GlassRain]

once you get to combat stealth you could crit pretty frequently as well as stay out of combat. Not to mention some of the rogue specialties play very nicely for an archer. Just because the archer rogue won't keep up with a melee rogue doesn't mean its not valuable and viable.



My only advice is don't sell the archer short until you've played one for an extended amount of time. My rogue archer is slow rising but no less a staple of my effectiveness in combat.

[Lykaon63]

There is no doubt that an archer is powerful and useful.



The question is -- why a rogue archer instead of a warrior archer? Assuming that your goal is to make an awesome archer, of course.

[manneger]

If they cannot flank, then "combat movement" is worthless. No backstab means "coup de grace" is worthless. Dirty fighting and below the belt are melee talents. Deadly strike i'm not sure of, but i sure sounds like a melee talent ("swift strike"). Lethality and evasion should be good, but for the price of getting two melee talents they aren't as good any more..

[GlassRain]

Its is really a personal preference.



Rogues and warriors both have their benefits and disadvantages for the ranged class. I am not going to pretend to be some sort of expert nor throw out hints of the game play but both are viable in their own way. Up to you to decide if they are the right choice for you.

[ByblosHex]

Rogue Archers make good Bards & Rangers. Warriors dont.

[manneger]

Bybloshex,



Agreed. That is a good point.

[Lykaon63]

Thanks, GlassRain.



I guess I was just looking for some pros and cons. I can see that a rogue can start off with a bigger critical, and being able to pick locks is pretty good.



The downside to the warrior, of course, is that he starts with a shield talent that you won't want or need as an archer. So both feel like there are wasted steps.

[SasugaRIVAL]

Personally, I think I'm going to invest in both the DW and Archery trees for my Ranger/Duelist.

There are a ton of things I don't think I will ever use on DW tree, and things I won't ever use on Archery tree. Nobody says you can't use both trees, and both of the weapon skills rely on Dex.  If you are like me you are just stacking Dex like crazy anyways.  You don't need Str for your melee damage since all of da damage is coming from Sneak Attacks.

So why the hell not double-dip? Its not like you get damage upgrades just for investing more points in one group than another (I don't think). I'm just gonna cherry pick skills that I want, and get whatever Rogue/Ranger/Duelist talents I think will benefit me.

Modifié par SasugaRIVAL, 05 novembre 2009 - 07:41 .

[Lykaon63]

So Archery does not benefit from strength at all?

[garathkane]

Archery does benefit from strength, except for a crossbow. And there's nothing in the flanking descriptions that indicates archery is exempt from the bonus. Where have ya'll read this?

[Amioran]

"I guess I was just looking for some pros and cons. I can see that a rogue can start off with a bigger critical, and being able to pick locks is pretty good."



Pros and Cons on being a Rogue archer instead of a Warrior one.



Pros:

- Better armor penetration and criticals. Since the rogue has a better cunning score and will probably use Lethality a rogue is much better than a warrior for armor penetration.

- More useful specializations. Also warriors have useful specializations but simply Duelist/Assassin for a dps archer or Bard/Ranger for a buff/debuffer cannot be beaten.

- Stealth. A rogue can use stealth naturally.



Cons:

- Less raw damage. Warriors get more damage per level than rogues and they will have to spreads points less thinly and focus on dex/will/str. This in turn gives better raw damage.

- Less stamina. Warriors get more stamina per level and as for the before explained motive they are able to have much more stamina in the end.

- Warriors have the best specialization for Mage killers. An archer Templar is the perfect mage slayer, if you want to be one, warrior archer is better than a rogue one.





So in definitive the two classes make both good archers but it clearly depends on the role you want to have. If you look for a more dps archer maybe the rogue is better (for the more armor penetration and better criticals that in the end are more useful than raw damage) also because Duelist with Pinpoint Strike is really good for a dps archer. Same if you want to be a buff/debuffer since Bard for an archer is better (probably) than a Champion.



If you howeve want to be the ultimate mage killer than Warrior is the way to go. The same apply if you want to become a great archer fast and use also melee talents (since Warrior have many more talent points to spare).

[manneger]

Lykaon63 wrote...

So Archery does not benefit from strength at all?

Archery benefits from strength
Each point of Strength above 10 adds +0.5 Attack Attack with all weapons
Each point of Strength above 10 adds +0.5 Damage Bonus with Daggers. Longbows and Shortbow

http://dragonage.gul...ibutes/strength

Note however that the damage bonus may be incorrect, as in actually being +1 rather than +0.5. Since it is supposed to be an additional +0.5 from dex that apparently doesnt exist. But that is still unclear as far as i can tell, it might be that bows/daggers just get +0.5 from strength and no more (so the +0.5 from dex just is gone rather than being added to strength instead).

Anyway strength seems to be the most important attribute for using bows (because of the damage bug with dex), as long as you meet the dex req to actually use the bow.
 

[Lykaon63]

Thanks, Amioran. That's really helpful. I like the idea of stealthing for scouting purposes and I absolutely hate not being able to open locked chests.



I was worried that a rogue archer would be far too gimped, but it sounds like that's likely not the case.

[Amioran]

manneger wrote...

Archery benefits from strength
Each point of Strength above 10 adds +0.5 Attack Attack with all weapons
Each point of Strength above 10 adds +0.5 Damage Bonus with Daggers. Longbows and Shortbow

http://dragonage.gul...ibutes/strength

Note however that the damage bonus may be incorrect, as in actually being +1 rather than +0.5. Since it is supposed to be an additional +0.5 from dex that apparently doesnt exist. But that is still unclear as far as i can tell, it might be that bows/daggers just get +0.5 from strength and no more (so the +0.5 from dex just is gone rather than being added to strength instead).

Anyway strength seems to be the most important attribute for using bows (because of the damage bug with dex), as long as you meet the dex req to actually use the bow. 
 

I noticed that too, however it is clearly a bug since in the game is written plainly that dexterity should add to the damage of piercing weapons (arrows are piercing weapons in fact). This or the damage doesn't get written right, the same seems to apply for the attack bonus: it should give full +1 for every point after 10 in dexterity but in the window it is not showed right for ranged weapon.

I think it's a but on the window tha shows damage/attack instead of in the code, since it seems to give the scores based as if bows were actually melee weapons (clearly seen if you change a bow to a logsword and the "attack bonus" doesn't change when it should be clearly higher).

[Lykaon63]

manneger wrote...

Anyway strength seems to be the most important attribute for using bows (because of the damage bug with dex), as long as you meet the dex req to actually use the bow.

Didn't know there was a bug there.  If the fix the bug later, though, I would regret having forgone all that dex.  Oh the decisions! 

I'm way too OCD.  I keep starting over because I want to get everything just right.