45 réponses à ce sujet

[Zaynias]

I finished Mass Effect 1 and loved it, and I praise Bioware for improving Mass Effect 2 in every aspect, but I just have one big gripe within the suicide mission.

I'm a completionist and made every single preperation for the suicide mission, I even didn't go pickup my crew immediately after they got collected because I wanted to prepare more in terms of sidequests, characters, and loyalties.

The whole party members dying even when fully prepared wasn't fun at all. I didn't feel the same way with Kaidan and Ashley because I was forced into a choice, it was impossible to save them both...it was a tragic moment and accepted it as such with no regrets. Mass Effect 2 essentially had a big glowing achievement that said "make it out with everyone alive". Now I don't care about achievements, but when I'm being told that losing a character basically means I played the game badly, I reloaded through the long suicide mission initiation cutscenes just to get it right the second time. It completely killed the mood throughout the whole ending for me, and left with a very unsatisfied taste in my mouth.

The first Mass Effect really made me feel like I was in Shepard's shoes, but after reloading to save all my party members in the 2 I felt like it wasn't my Shepard anymore, like I was cheating my decision. I just couldn't go through the idea of losing a character like Garrus for the next game because of a very unclear decision I had to make, possibly spoiling the experience for me in the third game. It felt like I was preparing my Shepard for the third game rather than putting myself in Shepard's shoes making the decisions for him.

I guess I'm saying there's such a thing as too much control you can give to a player. If your goal was to make me feel cheated and unsatisfied throughout the ending, I'd say mission accomplished. You want my teammates to die through my actions by an awful choice? Give me a game over, not a badge of shame.

Besides that, I'd say you guys did an excellent job on the game, and I can't wait to play the third one!

Modifié par Zaynias, 30 janvier 2010 - 04:51 .

[CmdrFenix83]

The point is that the mission is suicidal. If someone dies, live with the consequence. Mordin died in my playthrough. I was pissed, but there's nothing I can do about it except try to make my subsequent playthroughs try harder. No one know exactly what factors in to each death at the end. Ship upgrades prevent some, and loyalty does too, but there seems to be hidden factors. Either time taken to clear each part of the mission, or some random chance of catching a stray bullet.



People are saying that they've lost people in situations that don't make sense. The only variable here seem to be time spent in each section of the mission. As in how fast you cleared that section.

[firethorn245]

Mordin died in my playthrough too! What the hell!

[Litos456]

It is messed up I know guys. I got Garrus killed, somehow, and I think I'm the only person here who managed to do that... but anyway. That's realism for ya folks. That's just what happens.

The suicide mission was good and realistic, but too bad it wasn't like the emotional ending that you could have gotten with Saren killing himself.



Also HARBRINGER IS A FATTY FATTY

[Sursion]

Ho hum. I hardly did any upgrades and everyone lived. Even the crew.

[Zaynias]

Doesn't mean I have to like it!

What if the Alliance arrests you for killing a bunch of mercs, forcing you to spend 60 in-game days romancing your cellmate? I mean, I love choice and all, but sometimes it can be detrimental to the experience.

If people were going to die without my choice, I wouldn't mind as much, it's the label for playing the game badly that rubs me the wrong way, not the available choices surrounding the event.

[Erashima7]

well.. lol.. dont try too load the mission again too save them .. it adds that feel of not knowing who is gonna die... like in real life.. u can get lucky and survive.. or a last minute missile can instantly kill u... Jacob and Zaeed died for me :/

[Zaynias]

Erashima7 wrote...

well.. lol.. dont try too load the mission again too save them .. it adds that feel of not knowing who is gonna die... like in real life.. u can get lucky and survive.. or a last minute missile can instantly kill u... Jacob and Zaeed died for me :/

It's easy to say "just ignore it" but I love Mass Effect for the universe, story and characters...I don't see how making my experience in the third game crappier any viable option whatsoever.

Modifié par Zaynias, 30 janvier 2010 - 05:25 .

[TuringPoint]

I think there's a random factor to it, I think. Maybe squad upgrades relate to survivability? Meh.



Anyway, I lost Mordin. All I did to rectify that was go back to the last stretch and put Mordin in my squad to fight the Reaper.

[stylepoints]

Get every upgrade you can, do every loyalty mission, and for the love of god don't do something stupid like put thane in charge of a group. Most people I see having people die did something stupid. I've played through twice now once on hardcore an nobody died yet.

[Barker673]

New Game +



Learn from your mistakes, young one.

[EatinMcRib]

I put Thane in charge of escorting the crew since it seemed logical for him to be quick and find the best route. That worked out fine.

[stylepoints]

I meant in charge of leading one of the fire teams, I don't think it really matters who you have escort them back. I did Jacob and Mordin and both worked fine.

[Mikenator700]

Alocormin wrote...

I think there's a random factor to it, I think. Maybe squad upgrades relate to survivability? Meh.

Anyway, I lost Mordin. All I did to rectify that was go back to the last stretch and put Mordin in my squad to fight the Reaper.

I just played the ending twice on a save and he keeps dying when he holds the line at the very end.
The third shot I'll put him on my final squad.

[Nashiktal]

I agree the suicide mission could have been done better. I love the idea, but the execution fell flat a bit for me. (Not to mention the weird end boss. I can just imagine that thing being a ship...) I also did not like the lack of impact when you lose a character. They dont give you any real drama that comes with their death.



IE, When someone dies hardly two sentences are said. I was hoping for a dramatic cinematic as they died, maybe shepherd holding them as they died. Instead we gloss over it and move on.



(Kind of a guide for those who want it, dont read if you want to figure it out yourself)

When you do the suicide mission be sure to think hard about each individuals traits.



When asked for someone to lead a team, look to the people like Garrus of jacob. Garrus led his own team for a while if you remember correctly, he can get the job done with minimal casualties.



Legion and Tali are you tech geeks. Use them to open the door. However if you do not want them to die, make sure the other team has a good leader, and move fast!



When you need a biotic to escort you through the swarms, I use Jack. Her iron will got me through just fine. (I have not tried other biotics, testing now)

[NickVan]

Vent - ???



Fire Team- Zaed



Escort- ???



2nd Team- Jacob



Door- All stay but three party members.

[Crackseed]

Generally the balance of who lives and dies depends on the people you place in charge of a given role. I've done it twice and never lost anyone both times.

[mewarmo990]

Zaynias wrote...

I finished Mass Effect 1 and loved it, and I praise Bioware for improving Mass Effect 2 in every aspect, but I just have one big gripe within the suicide mission.

I'm a completionist and made every single preperation for the suicide mission, I even didn't go pickup my crew immediately after they got collected because I wanted to prepare more in terms of sidequests, characters, and loyalties.

The whole party members dying even when fully prepared wasn't fun at all. I didn't feel the same way with Kaidan and Ashley because I was forced into a choice, it was impossible to save them both...it was a tragic moment and accepted it as such with no regrets. Mass Effect 2 essentially had a big glowing achievement that said "make it out with everyone alive". Now I don't care about achievements, but when I'm being told that losing a character basically means I played the game badly, I reloaded through the long suicide mission initiation cutscenes just to get it right the second time. It completely killed the mood throughout the whole ending for me, and left with a very unsatisfied taste in my mouth.

The first Mass Effect really made me feel like I was in Shepard's shoes, but after reloading to save all my party members in the 2 I felt like it wasn't my Shepard anymore, like I was cheating my decision. I just couldn't go through the idea of losing a character like Garrus for the next game because of a very unclear decision I had to make, possibly spoiling the experience for me in the third game. It felt like I was preparing my Shepard for the third game rather than putting myself in Shepard's shoes making the decisions for him.

I guess I'm saying there's such a thing as too much control you can give to a player. If your goal was to make me feel cheated and unsatisfied throughout the ending, I'd say mission accomplished. You want my teammates to die through my actions by an awful choice? Give me a game over, not a badge of shame.

Besides that, I'd say you guys did an excellent job on the game, and I can't wait to play the third one!

Uh huh. "Completionist." Sure.

No way everyone would have died if you really took the time to prepare and figure out your party members' strengths and weaknesses. The only one that has a high probability of dying unless you keep him out of combat is Mordin, since even with his brief STG stint he has the weakest combat skills of the whole party.

There are achievements for completing and surviving the suicide mission, too. It takes a little extra planning to get everyone out alive. Everyone tells you throughout the game that you will almost certainly lose people in the fight.

Modifié par mewarmo990, 30 janvier 2010 - 06:43 .

[stylepoints]

Vent for me is always legion, he does great. I don't ever want Tali to die so she comes with me. Fire team should always be garrus or miranda because of their leadership experience. Escort can be anyone from what I've seen. I always use Samara for my biotic.

[mewarmo990]

Most of the assignment decisions are common sense, and the descriptions of your teammates tell you what they're good at.

Vent hacker: You need a tech specialist. That means Legion or Tali. Anyone else can't hack quickly enough.

Fireteam leader: As Miranda says, you need someone with the experience to lead a team. Miranda at Garrus are both good at this.

Biotic shield: Samara and Jack are the only two strong enough to maintain the field the whole way. Thane and Jacob are disciplined but nothing special, and although Miranda's biotics are advanced for a human, Jack is probably the strongest human biotic alive because of her hax.

Diversion team leader: This is misleading - I thought it just had to be a strong fighter so I tried Zaeed for his combat experience, who died, and then Grunt for his krogan durability, who also died. The diversion leader, like the fireteam leader, has to be a good tactician who can fight overwhelming forces without taking casualties. This means Garrus (guerrilla Archangel days) and possibly Miranda (tactical genius) though I haven't tried her.

Escort: Most characters can do this fine. Ideally you want to pick someone who is well-rounded and can do a good job protecting the crew. The teammate you pick will no longer be selectable after this. I would send back Mordin, because....

Final rear guard: Mordin has a high (but not definite) chance of dying during the holding action because despite his STG experience, he has the weakest combat skills on the whole team. Send him back with the rescued crew or bring him with you to the boss fight.

Make sure you keep your squad alive during the boss fight. If they're down when you finish it, they will be dead in the ending.

Modifié par mewarmo990, 30 janvier 2010 - 06:40 .

[Nashiktal]

mewarmo990 wrote...

Most of the assignment decisions are common sense, and the descriptions of your teammates tell you what they're good at.

Vent hacker: You need a tech specialist. That means Legion or Tali. Anyone else can't hack quickly enough.

Fireteam leader: As Miranda says, you need someone with the experience to lead a team. Miranda at Garrus are both good at this.

Biotic shield: Samara and Jack are the only two strong enough to maintain the field the whole way. Thane and Jacob are disciplined but nothing special, and although Miranda's biotics are advanced for a human, Jack is probably the strongest human biotic alive because of her hax.

Diversion team leader: This is misleading - I thought it just had to be a strong fighter so I tried Zaeed for his combat experience, who died, and then Grunt for his krogan durability, who also died. The diversion leader, like the fireteam leader, has to be a good tactician who can fight overwhelming forces without taking casualties. This means Garrus (guerrilla Archangel days) and possibly Miranda (tactical genius) though I haven't tried her.

Escort: Most characters can do this fine. Ideally you want to pick someone who is well-rounded and can do a good job protecting the crew. The teammate you pick will no longer be selectable after this. I would send back Mordin, because....

Final rear guard: Mordin has a high (but not definite) chance of dying during the holding action because despite his STG experience, he has the weakest combat skills on the whole team. Send him back with the rescued crew or bring him with you to the boss fight.

Make sure you keep your squad alive during the boss fight. If they're down when you finish it, they will be dead in the ending.

Wow, did not know about the final boss fight thing. Thank god they were not down in my playthrough!

[hitorihanzo]

I respect your opinion OP, but I disagree.  I felt like I was fighting a fight that I couldn't win.  And when all of my team survived I felt happy about that.  I would have liked to have had a section where you had to fight as the rear guard, like they did in Dragon Age, but overall, I couldn't have been happier.

Edit:  You did say that everyone on your team died, correct?  If you completed all the side quests- and did them correctly, upgraded your weapons, and upgraded the ship, there should have been no way that everyone died.

Modifié par hitorihanzo, 30 janvier 2010 - 07:31 .

[LucidStrike]

mewarmo990 wrote...

Make sure you keep your squad alive during the boss fight. If they're down when you finish it, they will be dead in the ending.

Dramatically, just as my last squadmate had gone down, I used my last 3 heavy pistol shots to destroy the Reaper. They survived, magically revived.

Modifié par LucidStrike, 30 janvier 2010 - 07:45 .

[Double0hFor]

i messed up having Zaeed as the diversion leader, should have gone with my main man Garrus but whatever, i'll just get it on my insanity playthrough

[HunterX6]

Zaynias wrote...

I finished Mass Effect 1 and loved it, and I praise Bioware for improving Mass Effect 2 in every aspect, but I just have one big gripe within the suicide mission.

I'm a completionist and made every single preperation for the suicide mission, I even didn't go pickup my crew immediately after they got collected because I wanted to prepare more in terms of sidequests, characters, and loyalties.

The whole party members dying even when fully prepared wasn't fun at all. I didn't feel the same way with Kaidan and Ashley because I was forced into a choice, it was impossible to save them both...it was a tragic moment and accepted it as such with no regrets. Mass Effect 2 essentially had a big glowing achievement that said "make it out with everyone alive". Now I don't care about achievements, but when I'm being told that losing a character basically means I played the game badly, I reloaded through the long suicide mission initiation cutscenes just to get it right the second time. It completely killed the mood throughout the whole ending for me, and left with a very unsatisfied taste in my mouth.

The first Mass Effect really made me feel like I was in Shepard's shoes, but after reloading to save all my party members in the 2 I felt like it wasn't my Shepard anymore, like I was cheating my decision. I just couldn't go through the idea of losing a character like Garrus for the next game because of a very unclear decision I had to make, possibly spoiling the experience for me in the third game. It felt like I was preparing my Shepard for the third game rather than putting myself in Shepard's shoes making the decisions for him.

I guess I'm saying there's such a thing as too much control you can give to a player. If your goal was to make me feel cheated and unsatisfied throughout the ending, I'd say mission accomplished. You want my teammates to die through my actions by an awful choice? Give me a game over, not a badge of shame.

Besides that, I'd say you guys did an excellent job on the game, and I can't wait to play the third one!

LOL you sir.. got own...i am pretty sure u wasnt "fully" ready..trust me on that. too bad for you. try harder next time and do lot of diffrent saving files just in case things go wrong ( i did 30 different saves file just in case and things went bad and fixed a few)

Modifié par HunterX6, 30 janvier 2010 - 08:05 .