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[Inquisitor Recon]

Yeah I've heard that, going to get those done with ASAP on my current playthrough.

[Mister_Tez]

Default137 wrote...


Actually, there are a few random deaths possible, depending on your choices.

Mordin will die if you leave him to hold the line, and you don't have Grunt, Garrus, or Zaeed holding it with him.

Jack,
Tali, Miranda, and Thane also have a fairly high chance of dying during
the Hold the Line bit if you don't leave Garrus/Grunt/Zaeed behind to
help, but its much lower then Mordins something like 25% chance to die,
so it happens much less often.

Those aren't "random" though. They're calculated, based upon each character's "hold the line" score. One of the devs explained it, I'll look for the link.

ReconTeam wrote...


Yeah, not everybody reads the damn guide ahead of playing the game. Or did you not think of that?

I figured Thane could handle the pipes and it turned out he couldn't (caught a rocket shutting the door). And Jack died holding the line on my game.

Why would you need to read the guide to be able to make logical choices?

The briefing tells you what kind of character you need for the vent section: a tech specialist to hack security & open the doors.

When Jacob volunteers, Miranda specifically points out that he would not be suitable as he doesn't have the tech skills to hack the security & open the doors in time.

When you get the selection screen, the bios make it fairly clear who is suitable, and who is not. The only two characters who are specifically mentioned as being tech experts are Tali & Legion (which the player should know anyway from knowing the characters). Jacob's bio makes no mention if him being a tech expert. Thane's bio makes no mention of him being a tech expert. They're only in the list because their classes include some tech ability, but they are not tech experts. Mordin is a genius, and the bio points this out, but it also specifically mentions that his field of expertise is biology.

The only two characters remotely suitable, the only two characters who are logical choices, are Tali & Legion.


For the Fireteam leader (both times), again it's fairly logical. You need not just someone good in a firefight but someone who is also a good leader. You know that Miranda is a good leader as well as fighter, she is your XO & her own custom class points out that she has leadership skills. You know that Jacob has leadership skills (junior officer in the Alliance military, head of security & Miri's right-hand-man on the Lazarus station) as well as combat skills. You know that Garrus has leadership skills (e.g. his Omega team) as well as being great in combat. Samara has a lot of combat skills, but spent her life working alone - not good leadership material for the Fireteam. Thane has good assasin skills, & spent his life working alone - not good leadership material for the Fireteam. Mordin is a scientist, not a Fireteam leader. Grunt is just a grunt, not a leader. Zaeed, despite his combat skills, is unsuitable as he spent two decades working alone as a merc / bounty hunter... apart from a few missions where everyone but him died. Not a leader. Etc...So it's fairly easy to work out who the ideal three candidates are.

The Biotic shield - you obviously need a strong biotic. Yes, Thane & Jacob & Miri have Biotics, but it is fairly blatant that none of them are at all as powerful as Jack or Samara/Morinth. Jack is the ultimate human biotic. Samara/Morinth is an asari & so is a natural biotic (no need for an Amp, naturally powerful), while adding to that you know that Samara is a Justicar & nearly as powerful as a Matriarch, while Morinth is a crazy asari succubus who gets more & more insanely powerful each time she kills someone via sex. So again the ideal choices are logical ones.


The only thing which isn't quite so obvious is the "hold the line" section, as many people may take the tank characters with them for the boss instead of leaving them to hold the line & so protect any squishies left at the door.

Modifié par Mister_Tez, 26 février 2010 - 10:44 .

[Aanorith]

Noone died and I was happy ^^

[Fromyou]

my first one was Mordin and Zaeed. the rest i saved everyone

[Mister_Tez]

ReconTeam wrote...

SL22 wrote...
I haven't read any guides, I used my damn brain and read the descriptions.

And why is it such a stretch to figure Thane could crawl through some air ducts and deal with some electronics? He is an assassin for a living. Crawling through air ducts is 50% of his job, and he should be able to figure out how to unlock a damn door. I suppose one could assume Zaeed knows how to lead a team as well.

You don't know quite what they're going to face, what the electronics will be like - would you not want to send one of your best tech experts, someone you know will be able to hack anything they encounter, instead of sending someone who, while a little techy, is not an actual expert & who may fail at it or take too long?

Thane's bio makes no mention of the skills required in the briefing. Tali's does. Legion's does.

Zaeed & leadership... He's been working alone since his former partner shot him in the face 20 years ago or whenever it was. If you "talk" to him, you also find that on the rare occaision he has not worked alone, he has ended up getting his whole team killed. I'd rather use someone I can trust to lead a team, like Miranda or Garrus.

[Kinvarus]

Mordin and Grunt

[Inquisitor Recon]

Mister_Tez wrote...
Thane's bio makes no mention of him being a tech expert. They're only in the list because their classes include some tech ability, but they are not tech experts.

Being an assassin and obviously doing plenty of contracts on high-tech worlds, it seems quite likely that he would have to hack security systems and so forth on a regular basis. I think it is a sensible conclusion to make. It is not clear from the start that the guy crawling through the duct needed technical skills only. From the way Miranda talks about the risk I figured stealth might be useful.

The only two characters remotely suitable, the only two characters who are logical choices, are Tali & Legion.

Not everybody thinks the same when faced with such a situation. What seemed logical to me was somebody with stealth skills. Although the vents were a bit different from what I expected. I figured it would be along an alternate route rather than pretty much running alongside your path of attack.

The only thing which isn't quite so obvious is the "hold the line" section, as many people may take the tank characters with them for the boss instead of leaving them to hold the line & so protect any squishies left at the door.

I left Grunt and Jacob at the door but Jack died anyway, so I assume loyalty issues were the factor that got her killed there.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 26 février 2010 - 10:45 .

[FenixBlaze]

First play through everyone lived threw my Suicide Mission.



Paragon path, No one was left behind!

[The Happy One]

SL22 wrote...No one can "randomly" die, I've completed nine playthroughs and no one has ever died

9 playthroughs? What a loser...

[Jax Sparrow]

 I find that I have to 'work' to get anything other than a flawless ending.  First, if you do all the sidequests it becomes obvious that there are only two or three good squad leaders.  There are also only two good hackers to send through the ducts and two good Biotics to set up the biotic field.  I let myself get caught thinking Miranda is a third good biotic but that failed and lead to Grunt getting taken away by the swarm.  The other two should be obvious.

[DarthCaine]

Nobody died for me



Mordin dying isn't random, it's because you didn't leave the best defenders (Garrus and Grunt) "holding the line"

[Mister_Tez]

ReconTeam wrote...

Mister_Tez wrote...
Thane's bio makes no mention of him being a tech expert. They're only in the list because their classes include some tech ability, but they are not tech experts.

Being an assassin and obviously doing plenty of contracts on high-tech worlds, it seems quite likely that he would have to hack security systems and so forth on a regular basis. I think it is a sensible conclusion to make. It is not clear from the start that the guy crawling through the duct needed technical skills only. From the way Miranda talks about the risk I figured stealth might be useful.

The only two characters remotely suitable, the only two characters who are logical choices, are Tali & Legion.

Not everybody thinks the same when faced with such a situation. What seemed logical to me was somebody with stealth skills. Although the vents were a bit different from what I expected. I figured it would be along an alternate route rather than pretty much running alongside your path of attack.

The only thing which isn't quite so obvious is the "hold the line" section, as many people may take the tank characters with them for the boss instead of leaving them to hold the line & so protect any squishies left at the door.

I left Grunt and Jacob at the door but Jack died anyway, so I assume loyalty issues were the factor that got her killed there.

I can see your reasoning, but I still think it was far more logical, to me at least, that Legion & Tali were ideal.

You are told you need a tech expert to hack the security & open the doors. That's the main requirement. They don't need stealth, they're going through a vent tunnel while you battle a load of enemies nearby. First & foremost they need tech expertise, the brief tells you this & Miranda tells you this.

Although Thane is sneaky & stealthy, & does have some tech ability, you know that he simply is not in the same league as Tali or Legion. You need a tech expert, & the bios (& your own knowledge of the characters) make it clear that both of them are tech experts. I can't remember the exact wording, but IIRC there was stuff such as "mechanical genius" & "never faced a technical problem they can't solve" in the bios for them. Thane, on the other hand, had no mention of any technical expertise in his bio.


Re. Jack's death - Yeah, I assume so. From recent reading here, Jack is a "squishy", & has a higher risk of death while holding the line than certain other characters do. Although her risk of death is not as high as Mordin's (the most risky), it would increase if she is not loyal. Plus her risk would decrease the more kick-ass defenders are left at the door - e.g. if Garrus & Zaeed were at the door as well as Grunt she would survive.

[Inquisitor Recon]

I see what your getting at, but from the onset it seemed to be more of a stealth/tech challenge than pure tech to myself. Something an infiltrator would be suited for.

[Mister_Tez]

yfhfrg wrote...

R34P3RR3D33M3R wrote...

celticeagle13 wrote...

hey guys how do you save kelly i had everyone on teh squad live but kelly always died

Don't do the IFF mission before you did all the loyalty missions.
After you finish the IFF mission, do Legion's loyalty mission.
Then head straight for the Omega 4 relay and start the suicide mission.
Kelly and all other crewmembers will survive then.

I did this on my second playthrough, the only mission I did between IFF and suicide was Legion's loyalty mission, but I still arrived too late and half the crew died. Not sure what I did wrong, I didn't even land on any other planets or anything, are you not allowed to even stop by any other systems or planet-scan?

Did the crew get kidnapped before or after you did Legion's loyalty mission?

If you let them get kidnapped first, then did Legion's loyalty mission, then went through Omega 4, your crew will die as you took too long.

You must activate Legion & talk to him straight after the Derelict Reaper IFF mission, & then do Legion's loyalty mission straight away. That way, the crew will not be kidnapped until after Legion's loyalty mission (next time you clock the galaxy map). Once they have been kidnapped, go straight through the Omega 4 Relay.

[Mister_Tez]

ReconTeam wrote...

I see what your getting at, but from the onset it seemed to be more of a stealth/tech challenge than pure tech to myself. Something an infiltrator would be suited for.

Fair enough

I've just looked for a video of the selection on YouTube, & there is an initial mention of stealth, so I can see you thinking someone like Thane would be suitable. I know a few other people who did, also because they thought "Well, Thane is good at sneaking...".

Shepard - "If we can't blast out way through then we'll use stealth. Someone could sneak in through this ventilation shaft here."

However, Miranda then says (after Jacob volunteers) "I appreciate the thought, Jacob, but you couldn't shut down the security systems in time. We need to send a tech expert."

And then the selection screen I think makes it more clear: "Choose a Tech Specialist to unlock the door."

Tali's entry says "Revered as a mechanical genius even among the advanced engineers of the quarians. She is most effective when faced with technical problems that can be solved with the application of intelligence rather than brute force."

Legion's says: "Utterly fearless and proficient in combat. It possesses the collective memory of the entire geth, and has the unmatched technical expertise of a sentient machine that can be used with calculated proficiency."



Still, I guess at the end of the day it doesn't matter if Thane is used & gets shot at the end  - he still opens the doors for you, & it's a better death than dying of Kepral's Syndrome lol.

[Kloreep]

I messed up all the choices, so despite having everyone loyal, Thane, Garrus and Samara all died. Garrus dying was a real gut-punch too, I'd used him in my squad for most of the game - but hey, that made my Shep's story all the more dramatic.

I admit I should have known better than to choose Miranda as a field generator. I was just gun-shy of putting Cerberus people in key positions, and figured I'd go ahead and use her somewhere else. (I was afraid IM was going to back stab me via his officers. Turns out he simply walks up in front of you and asks you to put the knife in yourself, so okay then...) But genetic engineering or no, biotics is clearly not her sole focus, which I should have realized.

Samara being a bad leader does make sense in hindsight, I suppose. With Garrus (wanted him on my squad) & Miranda (see above) not candidates, Samara simply seemed like a good next choice.

Mister_Tez wrote...

You don't know quite what they're going to face

Exactly. Hence why I sent someone (Thane) who I thought could look after themselves on the way there - not just be a good candidate for the last part of the job, should they be lucky enough to actually reach their destination. I realized Thane was perhaps not the best at tech specifically; but as he himself says, he has some experience with infiltration in general. Like ReconTeam, I thought he had the best mix of skills, even if he wasn't a great specialist. That it turned out to be the hacking part that was difficult is not something I could have foreseen, unless I am writing off the possibility of surprises.

Don't get me wrong: given that the vent mission is very straightforward and is pulled off almost exactly as planned, Thane is clearly a poor choice from the get-go. I had no way of knowing that on a first playthrough. Just like with not wanting to put Miranda in a leadership role, I was hedging in anticipation of a curveball that it turned out the game was not going to throw at me.

Modifié par Kloreep, 26 février 2010 - 11:39 .

[Minaach]

Fish Fables wrote...

I got to the human-reaper with everyone alive (full loyalty, all upgrades purchased). I was celebrating a perfect ending, until the cutscene where everyone's running back to the ship and they show Mordin's body.

I was sad.

This. I was so pissed my Salarian Scientist died...

[ExtremeOne]

Tali died from the pipes, Jack died from being on the line , Samara died from not being loyal, Thane died from the seeker sworms. I am glad they all got whacked

[Pinkflamingo22]

Krajj54 wrote...

SL22 wrote...

cool story bro

Its not rocket science. its so easy o have everyone live. You ust have to not be a ****ing idiot and know who is good at what.

[thegoldfinch]

Everyone always lives in my play throughs. The game tells you on the team/specialist selection screen what skills that person needs to have, and they also give a description of everyone's skills. It's pretty straightforward. I make sure to have everyone's loyalty, all quests done, and all upgrades possible in place before making the suicide run. Like I said, straightforward.



I use Garrus for the fire team leader, Tali as my tech girl, Grunt as the crew escort, Samara as my biotic, and Thane + Miranda during the final boss. Everyone is a happy camper. =)

[insomniac13]

Zaeed and Jacob had to go in order for all the cool guys to survive. I hated Zaeed and Jacob i could do without so im happy!

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Nobody!!!!

Get over it!!!!

Play it right, or don't play it at all!!!!

And for all the idiots who killed their entire team........you'll get yours in the end!!!!

[Jimbe2693]

Its not rocket science. its so easy o have everyone live. You ust have to not be a ****ing idiot and know who is good at what.

So say somebody puts Tali in the vents, but then puts Zaeed as the leader, Tali dies. Does that make them an idiot for thinking Zaeed can lead a team? He was once leader of the blue suns after all.

Also if the people you take with you to fight the human-reaper aren't loyal they die... and someone can randomly die towards the end.
Again, does that make them an idiot?