338 réponses à ce sujet

[Icematt12]

RyogaWanderer wrote...

Ask a soldier in real life which they would prefer. The gun that never runs out of bullets but will overheat if you go trigger happy, or the ones that work exactly like guns today. Heck if we want to get REALLY logical about it, I'd just carry a second gun if the cooldown was that long, and swap. And yes, explosions in space are (mostly) impossible, there's a whole TV trope about it at tvtropes.

Technically, you do still have infinite ammo its to do with heat sinks that you cannot fire your weapon. I persume a gun has some sort of safety mechanism that kicks in when there is nowhere to store or disperse the generated heat. With a cooldown weapon it could explode in your hands if the cooldown function is either damaged or faulty. Heat sinks make sense to me in terms of gameplay, military use and science. They just sound cheaper and safer to me than the overheat weapons.

There are more obvious things to me that break what has been established in ME1, this doesn't appear to be one of them. If mass relays are point to point (think Mu ME1 fans, if that's how it is spelt), then how can you get from Omega cluster to the Citadel if each cluster only has one relay? It's just that section in the bottom left of the screen where I feel problems lie due to the presentation and interpretation of infomation.

[Sidney]

People trying to find a "real" explanation for what is transparently a gameplay design choice are funny. There's no logic to the heat sinks, no good "real world" design reason to have 'em. It was a game play decision and that decision has a ton of holes in it.



The game doesn't want ammo, the game wants reloading. To that end let me swap out my heat sinks from my own supply. Every gun has to be "reloaded" after X shots as it is now but don't make me scrounge around for lost sinks after each fight. I'm just pulling out sinks from my cooled bag of heat sinks as I go.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

I think the termal clips are a great improvement to the game. What, you want unlimited sniper rifle ammo? Or heavy weapon? That would suck, and make the game way too easy.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

Sidney wrote...

The game doesn't want ammo, the game wants reloading. To that end let me swap out my heat sinks from my own supply. Every gun has to be "reloaded" after X shots as it is now but don't make me scrounge around for lost sinks after each fight. I'm just pulling out sinks from my cooled bag of heat sinks as I go.

''The game wants''? Riiiight.

Sounds like you just want EZ mode.

[Sidney]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...
''The game wants''? Riiiight.

Sounds like you just want EZ mode.

You think the designers were after "limited" ammo and the mechanics of worrying about ammunition or were they worried about making you "reload" periodically?

My suggestion doesn't change the combat difficulty one bit other than after a firefight not making me scrounge around for used heat sinks. You'll notice that fits with the general design direction of not looting corpses and just taking it to the next step.

[daguest]

For interested people, i have made a tutorial to get ride of thermal clip, or just for increase/decrease weapon ammos :

http://social.biowar...06/index/902373

[lord vaalic]

I am not a fan of it, it just doesnt fit after playing ME1. I could understand it if it was limited ammo or heat sinks for heavy weapons, but I dont care for them on the regular weapons at all. And I am someone who loved the first, played it through all the way about 15 times using all the different classes. This is one oops in ME2 in my opinion

[jmark22]

This isn't Fallout 3. This isn't survival horror. Scrounging for 'thermal clips' is just distracting and unnecessary. It doesn't really make the game much harder. It doesn't make it much more tactical. It just makes me have to stop what I'm doing after I clear a room and look for more 'thermal clips'. Is that fun? No.



The purpose of limited ammo, according to the devs, is to force you to "make your shots count" by taking advantage of headshots and such (which didn't matter in ME1). I argue that shooting things in the head to kill them faster is its own reward, and I don't need limited ammo to encourage me to do that.



The second stated purpose of limited ammo is to add "tension". I don't buy this as weapon overheating serves the same purpose and actually forces you to think about what you're doing MORE than limited ammo (e.g., shoot in short bursts, etc.).



As far as forcing you to use different weapons when you run out of ammo, the game already encourages you to use different weapons for different targets by making one type better for shields and another type better for armor.

[sam.delatorre]

If every game that had a shooter aspect to it was exactly alike, we would live in a very boring world.



All I have to say on this topic is, overcome and adapt. It's an imaginary universe people.



You think your idea is better? Make your own video game and sell it to the world. See how they like it.



PS Hybrid idea sounds fun and challenging. Maybe for ME3?

[Kileyan]

I Love the ME2 world. Our recon guys mark a drop zone. Then our supply ships fly over that area and litter a 2 KM area around the battle ground with thermal clips. I believe our special ops teams have disposable crawler bots that invade enemy bases and drop thermal clips within before self destructing.

This works out well, it is much easier than an infiltrator carrying more than 9 rounds of sniper ammo. We figure it is better that he get lucky and trip over some ammo, than bother carrying it himself.

Sure, many soldiers die running into fire after thermal clips they see just out of reach, but it is much better than waiting for their guns to cool down, the Geth told us so.

This new tech is so magical and perfect it transends time. Even lost derelict ships that are decades old, now carry this new, dark and edgy AMMO.

Modifié par Kileyan, 02 février 2010 - 03:21 .

[KalReegar]

They could have made the weapons to have an internal heat sink that is a back up should the weapon run out of thermal clips. This heat sink could only sustain a certain number of shots before it overheats and renders the weapon inoperable, instead of the weapon just being useless if there are no thermal clips. This heatsink could cool down, but it could take a while,and this cooldown can be decreased by directing the heat buildup to thermal clips.

Modifié par KalReegar, 02 février 2010 - 03:26 .

[Kileyan]

My engineer can flash freeze 8 humanoid sized critters every couple seconds. He can't cool down his or his teamates weapons with that same technology. silly.........

Oh and don't categorize me as just nitpicking the codex or lore. After playing the game, I don't find that the thermal clip gathering adds anything to the game. Reloading adds something to the game, but gathering little clips from the ground is less fun that finding new weapons and armor which we can't do anymore.

I do admit I was using a little logic in a make beleive world. I thought maybe having an engineer would mean having a character with skills to make heat sinks last longer, and so on.

Modifié par Kileyan, 02 février 2010 - 03:36 .

[Majpain007]

Its another word for ammo.

If its meant to eject a burnt out Thermal clip then why not have the sink cool down if your not shooting? I mean honestly it is a ammo system when you pop out a whole Thermal Clip after 1 shot.

How they should have done it was have a max number of Thermal Clips for each gun instead of a "Ammo counter"

So the Shotgun you get early in the game has 15 shots well remove the ammo counter replace it with a Thermal Clip counter and have the heat go down if your not shooting. I'm sure they could have made cool down faster where it didn't affect the speed of the game.

I don't mind it all that much as the gameplay is much smoother this time around much more enjoyable.

[binaryemperor]

When I first saw the "heat sink" news, I thought it was like:



"you have X amount of universal heat sinks, when you reload, you remove the hot one and put in a new one, you keep the hot one and it slowly cools in your inventory. If you go ape **** with the shooting, you'll keep loading clips that are still pretty hot, causing you to shoot less before you have to reload each time."

sounded fine to me. This current system is just a stock ammo system, however. If anything it should have been like Deus Ex, where the guns had a universal ammo pool.



I mean, I hardly had any trouble finding ammo as a Vanguard, but I kind of wished I could have berserked with my shotgun more exlusively. Tactics and lore are fun but sometimes it is even more fun to biotic charge a rushing Krogan warlord and put 20 shotgun rounds in his face while getting him very acquainted with my pimp hand, and then repeat the process with the next dumb*** Krogan who thinks he can tackle a Vanguard who eats Reapers and craps dark matter.

[Majpain007]

Yes I have to agree with you as a Vanguard the Shotgun is your friend but a friend that I will call out to take out the big guys. I primarily use the pistols to take everything else out and thats sad.



But I'm having too much fun to let any of the problems bring me down. Thats how much I love the game.

[Turma]

Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread through, but as to answer on the topic:



Bioware could have gone around the problem of adding ammo clips to the game by telling that the ammo feature in ME1 was later found unstable and guns were blowing on the faces of the users. Therefore the universe reverted to old fashion ammo clips.



Thermal clips just don't make sense no matter how you try to explain it. Above solution would have been better.

[Dante018]

sinosleep wrote...

Romeriez Galenar wrote...

Eradyn, perhaps difficulty level has something to do with it? I have your prob too. I only remember maybe two spots where there were any quantity of them lying around.

It's gotten to where I only go for headshots, so I can keep more ammo never knowing if I'll find more..and it's not really fun to run into a heavy mech with only the auto pistol.

This is why I'm asking what difficulty you are playing on. I play on hardcore, it's the 2nd hardest difficulty in the game since Insanity is the hardest. I don't play on insanity because even though I've always played games on their hardest difficulty I've gotten over the childish need to beat it just because. I've come to the conclusion that game makers don't know how to make games hard, they simply know how to make them CHEAP. Just like in ME 1, the ai was just as stupid on insanity as it was on normal, and their weapons were just as garbage. It's just that they were blessed with immunity spam and obscene amounts of health and shields. That's not a harder experience, that's a cheaper experience. And as such I play this one on hardcore since I think it's the best balance between difficulty and cheese.

But back to the main point, since I play on hardcore, unless you are playing on Insanity my game should be harder than yours, and I never run out of ammo.

I agree with sinosleep though I find the sniper rifle running out of ammo, always, for me on any difficulty.

I only hope that some DLC in the future allows you to carry more ammo. This would fix the ammo/ cooldown dilemma. I fixed my armor with the spare ammo upgrades but I just dont think 13 thermal clips does the widow anti-material snipe justice.

Personally, I would opt for cooldown weapons, maybe limiting the "frictionless material" combo someone mentioned earlier from ME:1 so as to not make it so overpowering if they were to go back to that system in ME:3.

[Aranwen1]

would be nice if enemies worked with these clips also, i have seen some of their weps over heating and like most games they have infinite ammo while we can run out.

if they are "state of the art" then why do they feel so much weaker then what i used in ME1?

>.> my weps didnt over heat in ME1, never let them and knew what to add to keep them from over heating.

Modifié par Aranwen1, 02 février 2010 - 07:49 .

[Frotality]

becuase its the only applicable field for it, i look at this from a purely gameplay persepctive.

i'll say it again; rebalance ammo limits. AR and smgs will be your best friends, heavy pistols and snipers dry up WAY to fast. i dont even like the smg, but i use it more than any other weapon simply because my pistol and sniper have so little ammo to spare, even scoring a headshot with every bullet, ill run out before one fight ends while i can spray and pray with my smg, finish the fight and have 160 ammo left.

honestly, id much rather have a hybrid system. in ME1, individual bullets were worthless and you emptied countless bullets into your hapless foes. in ME2, i have to save every damn sniper shot for only the most demanding and oppurtune moments, if i miss, i end up mentally face-palming knowing that ive been brutally and unreasonably punished for it. you've hit both ends of the spectrum bioware, but now you can find the middle ground:)

[Kileyan]

I hate the new system.

I played an infiltrator to use the sniper rifle, Guess what, I use pistols most often.

I played a Vanguard to try out shotguns. Guess what, I use pistols most often.

I know someone on the dev team thought this would create variety or force variety, but it is the opposite.

I liked the old game, where I could, for a change a pace, try out a new class, or even a new playthrough, and concentrate on being the sniper guy or the shotgun guy to change things up. But Bioware decided we should be forced to switch weapons constantly because that is how shooter games do it, just because........their words, not mine.

Modifié par Kileyan, 02 février 2010 - 08:10 .

[yowave]

Hello there crybabies,
"My name is Super nanny, and I am here to explain you some things, now hold on and try to stay focused till the end, NEWBIE PUT THAT KNIFE AWAY YOU CAN HURT YOURSELF."

All of you that cry about thermal clips idea are full of crap!
I love the idea of reloading, it's adding something nice to the game that was never there!
I am an fps player so yeah i love this aspect.

Just to let you know, i am playing on hardcore and never ever ran out of clips, always have a spare weapon + powers + miranda and jacob, so stop whining about it!

"Oh you was a good boy, one that listened to nanny, being focused till now means that you might be able to learn something after all!"

PISTOLS AND SNIPER RIFLES EXPLANATION:
About pistols and snipers, those weapons are not used endlessly in the battlefield even in reality!
You only use pistol when your main weapon runs out of bullets, or when you want to change magazine for your main weapon and don't have enough time!
And most of those heavy sniper rifles don't have more then 10 bullets in their magazine, so you can't take with you like tons of them to the fight are you?
Also sniper rifle is too strong, if placed correctly you can kill 70% of your enemies with a headshot, don't know about you but it sound too easy to me!

Seems to me that ya'll want an easier game, or you don't know how to embrace new things!
You are all bunch of oldies lol…

Sentence of the day:
STOP CRYING AND LEARN TO PLAY!

Modifié par yowave, 02 février 2010 - 08:30 .

[Destructo-Bot]

This game is rated mature... so what is yowave doing with it registered?

Bioware built a universe in ME1, fans expect some consistency in that universe. Tweaking the system seems to be the agreeable solution for everyone, not scrapping it whole for this trite heat clip nonsense. Given the controversy it clearly needs work.

Now go finish your homework.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 02 février 2010 - 08:49 .

[Kileyan]

yowave wrote...

Hello there crybabies,


Sentence of the day:
STOP CRYING AND LEARN TO PLAY!

Sentence of the day: Are you 10 years old?

People like different things than you!

Grow up, the only person throwing a temper tantrum is you.

[Mox Ruuga]

Don't like them.

The worst thing is the very limited amount you bring on a mission. Seriously, a N7 Infiltrator sniper heads to heavy combat with ten shots for his weapon. Dumb, really dumb. Makes Shepard look like an idiot.

Ammo scrounging is for survival horror games. It has no place on the 22nd century battlefield, where Shepard is a well connected, well equipped operative working for highly influential backers with no resource issues. Not some poor schmuck trying to survive a zombie apocalypse.

If Bioware is committed to this new system, at least give us back passive cooldown. That way you can spare your precious few thermal clips for moments of heavy action, when you need to be able to fire constantly. To offset this, the drops from enemies can be eliminated or reduced drastically.

[yowave]

Let me say it again will ya?
Seems to me that ya'll want an easier game, or you don't know how to embrace new things!
You are all bunch of oldies lol…

And about passive cool down, do you hear yourself! Those weapons shoot slugs maybe 4 times faster than our current weapons bullets! I am not a physicist but they are also generating a lot more heat, and heat can't parish that fast.
Don't know what you want to do, but I don't want to stay behind cover for the rest of my life waiting for my dam weapon to cool down!

Modifié par yowave, 02 février 2010 - 09:12 .