338 réponses à ce sujet

[pedal2metal]

Aburi wrote...
I more than likey wont buy the third if it doesnt bridge the gap between ME1 and ME2 as its gone from "Full-featured play-ability" to "Limited featured play-through and bin" which in my eyes doesnt make it worth the money.

I think that would be a great idea but it's a real design challenge to bridge that gap.  As it stands each game is distinct & self-consistent w/it's design which is what makes both games workable.  Lots of games that try to be "all things to all people" end up being "nothing for noone" so it's a very fine line.

I'll probably still buy it as I'm enjoying ME2 even though it's a different experience from ME1 (which I also still enjoy).  I find both fun but different.  I find this actually nice as it keeps both games "fresh" & ME1 is in no way obsoleted by ME2 or vice-versa.  I view them as 2 different games interrelated only through story & characters, nothing else.

thanks & best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[neoxus299]

Yes, much have been improved but some other things left behind, atleast the camera in the conversations have been improved, and the Renegade/Paragon quick choices...



I could stand reloading, but not too often... I does feel like Gears Of War in Space...

[OutlawPunk]

i liked being overpowered in the first game. it was fun for me and it fit the hero of the universe persona. If you want a challenge do something in real life like go to the gym, play a sport, do martial arts. Are movies challenging to watch? No. Video games to me are just an interactive form of entertainment. It should be done at my leisure, that is why i pick slower paced games like rpgs. That said, thermal clips are bull crap. I hate em. I like the overheat system in the first one, i never even came close to dieing.

[neoxus299]

+1 on OutlawPunk, makes you feel like you're a Spectre... Shepard...

[JonathonPR]

Thermal clips should not be an issue. The power source is what bugs me.
Creating the magnetic field to accelerate the the metal shards would
quickly drain the batteries and recharging the capacitors would take the
most time. While running a current through element zero allows you to
alter the effective mass that requires an unknown amount of power. The
method of acceleration would also affect how the weapon performs. A coil
gun would use a series of capacitors, one for each ring, to reduce
strain on the battery. You would also require have to siphon heat from each coil. Rail guns would require only two capacitors and a cooling
system for each rod. A coil gun would require downtime to recalibrate
the rings. The major flaw is that I find it
hard to believe that they dont have access to room temperature super
conductors. Even super cooling normal super conductors would make more sense. Lastly why not use magnetic plasma. Using a plasma you only need a
charge time assuming you dont leave it on standby when assuming combat.


reposting from another thread.
now my additional argument.

Also for combat. I did not overheat my gun after the first few times. I stoped spraying bullets and pulsed my shots. Each pulse ending with me reaiming my gun resulting in better combat momentum. The clip system creates a break and has yet to encourage me to take cover, people shooting at me did that. With the clips I can be mid pulse have to reload. I have to stop my advance to look for clips. With the old system I put more rounds on my target faster. "the only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss". My old technique worked for all the guns. Pace changed acording the weapon. I consider my style to be one that would be adopted in the mass effect universe by the military organizations. The Idea that the geth would use the clip sistem for anything other than a heavy weapon, sniper rifle or shotgun with high explosive rounds seems silly and innefficient.

Also back to my science argument. The speed that the rounds travel at , assuming they are anything like modern prototype rail guns, each round would look like a tracer or flare. The friction created by the surface of the round and any atmosphere similar to earth's in content or density would create so much heat that it could cause ignition. You also cant silince a rail gun even if the bullet is going less than the speed of sound, its different based on the density of the medium, the rails arc with a very loud pop.

[CroGamer002]

Thermal clips are superior over infinitive ammo overheating guns.

Modifié par Mesina2, 27 mai 2010 - 09:19 .

[Mister Mida]

From a realistic point of view, thermal clips are a step back in technology.



It's just my opinion, though. There's no need to spread it around.

[Throw_this_away]

Perople need to stop their crying.  I think the thermal clip sytem is much better, and I HATED the overheating system of ME1 (killed immersion).  

THe thermal clips bring balance to the game as they prevent people from sitting back and sniping everyone till the cows come home. 

[Lumikki]

lVerticall wrote...

Who likes the new system and why? What changes would you make?

Okey here is my opinion. Both of them have good and bad sides.

Termal clips with reload is excelent idea, but picking up clips from ground is not. Cool down is also good when you use gun where is comming alot of fire. How ever, cool down was sometimes too long time to wait and ability basicly take the cool down totally away with mods isn't good idea. Worst idea what they did in ME1 was allow enemy jam the weapons. Who the hell would be so stupid that brings weapons in war where enemy can jam them.

How to improve the ME2 current system?

One think is to remove clip picking from ground. Don't know how to do it, because also having unlimited ammos isn't so good idea. As for cool down, I don't think it's needed if you use clips, they basicly do same thing. Also I would like all weapons has same long clip changing time that one shot sniper riffle has. Of couse they could mix the systems example:

Sniper riffle: Clips
Heavy pistol: Clips
Heavy weapons: Clips & Cool down (based what kind of weapon)
Shotgun: Clips
Submachine gun: Cool down
Assault riffle: Cool down

Why this way, because all the clip weapons are more like one shot and realod. While coold down is used when weapon has steady rate of fire ammo flow. So, you could keep shooting, until weapon become overheat or try to shoot burst.  When you have one shot ammo weapon, it's not likely to overheat that easyly. Just my opinion, of course reality is allways different.

Modifié par Lumikki, 28 mai 2010 - 02:59 .

[Throw_this_away]

OutlawPunk wrote...

i liked being overpowered in the first game.  I like the overheat system in the first one, i never even came close to dieing.

and this is why the overheating system was changed to clips. 

[Elvis_Mazur]

My opinion?



I support Themal Clips for ME3.

[Spartas Husky]

I dont mind the heat sinks.



The only thing I would tweak, is that the lower barrle of weapons is the holding chamber for a finite number of sinks. Each one providing the necessary amount of projectiles.



Like exp:



The revenant uses 80 per sink. Meaning it has 6 sinks. It would be nice if they were stored in the lower barrel, so when you run out of sinks you gota reload them individual as in reloading a modern shotgun. Pop in 6 sinks, and your good to go for another 480 rounds.



Besides that I dont mind they were pretty nice.

[Schneidend]

Much preferred the thermal clip system, and the re-design of the weapon gameplay in general. As cool as it was to kill things fifty yards with a shotgun that had infinite ammo in the first game, I much prefer actually having to get close to efficiently use the shotgun. Also, the pump-action for the reload is priceless. Slaughtering a room full of vorcha and krogan is all the more badass when I punctuate it by ejecting a spent clip. Chik-chak!

[Illusivestofmen]

Nothing is more frustrating then having to wait until your friggin weapon cools. Yes it was more original but I prefer thermals. Now plot wise I am a bit skeptical that within two years every weapon in the known galaxy has been converted to thermal clips but gameplay wise I love em.

[CatatonicMan]

Old thread is, well, yeah...

Anyway...

Thermal clips 'work' in the gameplay sense, which is good - though admittedly it does make the combat about as unique as a mass-produced button.

The glaring immersion and continuity issues that the clips add, however, are killers. The facts that the clips make absolutely no sense, don't work the way they are supposed to in combat, and have the thinnest of excuses just keeping them from being a complete retcon in the story all add up to make them a very, very bad idea.

My biggest beef with the clips is that Bioware didn't even try to make them work with anything other than the combat. That speaks of either laziness or a rushed release; either way doesn't lend confidence in their designs for the next game.

Every time I have to change weapons because I ran out of ammo - despite the fact that the weapon I'm changing to has a full compliment of the exact same ammo - I die a little inside. It's hard to get behind the savior of the galaxy if he is too dense to realize that one ammo pool can easily be used in another gun.

Modifié par CatatonicMan, 28 mai 2010 - 03:41 .

[Palathas]

I'm not a fan of the thermal clip but I'm used to them now. I used to dislike them but now they don't bother me. Especially if you upgrade your SMG or Assault Rifle so they have heaps of ammo. The only time I notice them as a bother is in the early stages of the game and with the Sniper Rifle (Mantis or Widow).

Modifié par Palathas, 28 mai 2010 - 03:49 .

[Bluko]

Thermal Clips are okay, I mean having limited ammo certainly makes fights more intensive and creates a reason for you to switch weapons. I'm somewhere in-between when it comes to which weapon system actually was better. For me personally fights in Mass Effect just seemed more epic. You also had to watch out for Snipers and Rocket Soldiers. Cover was optional, but beneficial which to me seems the best way to go. That and I have to say fighting platoons worth of enemies made Mass Effect pretty fun.

In Mass Effect 2 you pretty much have to hide behind a Rock/Crate every fight apparently since Shields have apparently gotten worse. Strange thing is while you are more vulnerable as long as you are in cover you probably won't get killed. In some cases I think the AI needs to be a bit more aggressive cause most enemies just hide behind something and then you essentially just play whack-a-mole. Of course any enemy that has Shields or Barriers is a pain to take down.
And YMIR Mechs... worse then Geth Primes. <_<

Anyways while I don't mind the Thermal Clips it to me seems like a step backwards in technology. No offense but a gun that I never have to worry about reloading in any sort of fashion seems a lot better then a gun where I can run out of thermal clips. The whole idea that's it's "superior" Geth technology makes me laugh. To be honest they probably shouldn't have even bothered having a Codex explaination.


What I would like to see is merger between the two systems. Imagine this...

All weapons in Mass Effect can be fired a set number of shots before the barrel gets overheated. So each weapon would have it's own limited number of shots before it "runs out". However at any time the soldier can automatically cool off the gun and resume firing. Basically you have unlimited ammo per say, but you still have the concept of reloading. This also means you would no longer have to hunt for thermal clips after fights. You'd also essentially be free to use whichever weapon you want, as much as you want.

That's one thing that bothered me about ME2. I wanted to as a Soldier use shotguns and sniper rifles more often, but they both had such a limited ammo capacity I never bothered with them. That and I don't like switching between weapons in the middle of fights.

[Crunchyinmilk]

I don't mind the clips, I see the reason for limited ammo supply to make you use different weapons in a fight. I just really hate that to complete *any* mission, you absolutely must hunt around like a dick after a fire fight, rooting out flashing, dropped 'clips'.

How smart is it for you to have to rely on dropped ammo just to complete *any* mission? Scouts come prepared but Shepard doesn't?

Since heat sinks that cool down in the gun, have been done away with, let me keep my discards, have em cool down in my pocket.

Let me passively regenerate SPARE ammo, between fights.

[KitsuneRommel]

Bluko wrote...

Thermal Clips are okay, I mean having limited ammo certainly makes fights more intensive and creates a reason for you to switch weapons. I'm somewhere in-between when it comes to which weapon system actually was better. For me personally fights in Mass Effect just seemed more epic. You also had to watch out for Snipers and Rocket Soldiers. Cover was optional, but beneficial which to me seems the best way to go. That and I have to say fighting platoons worth of enemies made Mass Effect pretty fun.

It was funny though how 1/2 of the enemies seemed to have rocket launchers. Why couldn't you get one? Luckily no one had ever head of leading a shot so the only real threat were the snipers.

Biotics in ME1 were way too strong especially with all the cooldown reduction mods and skills. That's what killed any challenge ME1 had. Platoons of enemies? Singularity, Lift, Singularity, Lift, etc.

[chzr]

cooldown system made sense in me1 (rpg with shooting)
heat sinks make sense in a me2 (shooter with rp)

me1 with clips doesn't make ANY sense, just think of it.

me2 without clips? imho depending on class/playstyle. as my main char is (in both games) a pure shotgun vanguard, i can imagine charging into 4 enemies and instead of shooting them all, shoot 1-2 and then die because overheating. however, for any other class that uses cover and a med/long range weapon it probably wouldn't make a difference.
For those talking about immersive combat experience, i'd rather have a way to change between pistol and a shotgun directly, or not being forced to use smg because it has 400 ammo while other guns have 20 (all using "universal" sinks) EVEN WHILE DOING IT RIGHT.

anyway hybrid system is probably way to go in me3 so both sides are satisfied.

Modifié par chzr, 28 mai 2010 - 08:11 .

[Christmas Ape]

I quite like them in practice - the new feel of combat is still fun and I happen to think the reload animation with its faintly smoking, bright red ejected heat sink is fantastic. I get the impression you don't re-use heat sinks because they're clearly described as DISPOSABLE and probably warp the moment their heat-softened metal hits the ground. There are some objections here that just don't seem to be getting it, though...

REGARDING "WHY WOULD YOU LOSE INFINITE SHOOTING FOR CLIPS"?
Here's the thing: That infinite fire no-heat assault rifle you had in ME1? Never existed in-universe. It was an unintended or overlooked side-effect of a conventional RPG loot system being applied to guns; without range or reliability concerns, they can only really play with accuracy, heat, and damage. But there aren't weapons you can fire for minutes on end in Citadel Space, or even beyond.

Other things that may have happened in your game but probably never happened in the Mass Effect universe:
Shepard filling the Krogan Monument with more than 30,000 incendiary rounds because "I don't really feel like going to Noveria right now".
Shepard setting off cryo grenades as close as possible to the Ambassador, the Executor, and the consort's receptionist.
Shepard leaving the first Council hearing and firing their weapon into the floors and walls all the way to the elevator.
Shepard charging a krogan without shields and beating the huge lizard to death with his pistol because shooting them was getting dull.
A completely non-biotic Shepard without an implanted amp lifting a Geth Colossus a hundred feet in the air because you played a Sentinel last time.
Your gun bleeding heat at the same rate in environments ranging from Xawin (-131 C) to Metgos (169 C).
The Normandy leaving Noveria on Armistice Day (according to Ash), going to Terra Nova, Earth, four worlds in the Hades Gamma cluster, five worlds in the Armstrong Nebula, and making it back to the Citadel...STILL ON ARMISTICE DAY, according to the Terra Firma people.

Gameplay does not define setting.

REGARDING "I NEVER HAVE ANY BULLETS!"
I've run out of ammo once, taking a highly inefficient squad and poorly chosen Heavy Weapon to the damaged ship, and even then it just left me doing the exit run with my Eviscerator as opposed to any of my distance weapons. If I hadn't had to put the big floaing beasty to death with my :pinched:ing Carnifex as opposed to cleansing nuclear fire or a particle beam, things might have been different.

Use powers, use squadmates, use powers FOR squadmates (even on active they don't plan like you can), and make your shots count.

Running out of sniper rifle rounds? Stop using it to solve ALL your problems. Designated Marksman Shepard (IMXP) swaps over, drills the rocket launcher vorcha between the eyes, and goes back to a higher-capacity weapon to whittle health and keep heads down.

A FINAL THOUGHT
Consider Shepard's status, legally speaking, in the second game, even if they support you.
I enjoy the distinction in feeling between ME1's "Commander Shepard, Unkillable Nightmare Of All Council Enemies, Whose Gun Spits A Constant Hail Of Death" - from the moment I touch down on the beach planet the only reason I stop moving is a cutscene, the fights become complete jokes best answered by holding down the trigger and waving the reticle around to look for red triangles - and ME2's "Commander Shepard, Reluctant Agent, Scouring The Terminus Systems To Save All Life Because That's What A Hero Does". I realize the ammo collection isn't intended that way, but it makes the gameplay feel more hardscrabble and unsupported in a way I enjoy.

And what did the bolt action on ME1 sniper rifles do if NOT interact with heat sinks? Did you have to manually shave off a round from the block inside?

Edited to extract potential spoilers from my intended arguments, feel free to contact me if something is too vague.

Modifié par Christmas Ape, 28 mai 2010 - 08:14 .

[Eledran]

I like it, the system in ME1 was too much spray and pray, now you're actually in risk of running out of ammo (though not really).

Imo, ammo could be made to be even rarer, especially on high difficulty.

[kraze07]

ME1's system was better.

[Christmas Ape]

kraze07 wrote...

ME1's system was better.

The system that was only relevant to the first half of the game, and then became waiting for a weapon or mod with a 1-3% performance increase to further curbstomp the stupid-easy combat?

I'm compelled to disagree.