338 réponses à ce sujet

[SorrowAndJoy7]

I like the thermal clips, think they work well, are easy to find but also at times means you have to use different weapons.. which is a good thing.

[diskoh]

from a gameplay perspective? they're a nice touch.



from my perspective? i have a stressful job. i don't want stress in my entertainment, i want to freaking spray infinite ammo.



i know that's a rare opinion though, people take their games seriously.

[D00MRoar]

lVerticall wrote...

 I was very hopeful for them but after playing enough it feels like a step backward. Reloading the thermal clips takes just as much time as letting a weapon cool down in  ME 1. Also instead of searching for crates with weapons, armor, upgrades, etc, as in the first ME I find myself spending a lot of time searching for ammo, which is much harder to spot. 

 I think a hybrid system would have been much better. Once you fire a certain amount of shots you can either wait for your weapon to cool down as in the first ME or reload the thermal clips, which would be a much more rapid option.

Who likes the new system and why? What changes would you make?

You are wrong. Go back and play ME1 and let your weapon overheat. It takes a good few seconds for your gun to cooldown. In ME2 reloading is almost instantaneous. The character just pops the thermal clip and you are ready to go. Unless you absolutley want to use just one particular gun then you should not have a problem with ammo.

Modifié par D00MRoar, 30 janvier 2010 - 06:11 .

[Bara Rockfall]

I'm not a big fan. I don't like my guns running out of ammo. It's hard to spot the clips in some of the darker environments. Plus I like to stay of the move and press the attack. If I have to run back to old kills and search for clip I think it's wasted time. I really need to watch my ammo now and that changes the whole feel fo the game.



I loked going in guns blazing in ME1 and worry about overheating when it happens. If you just shoot in short bursts you never had to worry.



I do like the hybrid idea, but the old system worked fine. I agree about ammo for the heavy weapons but that is a game balance issue not a gameplay one.

[hbk0]

I don't have to much opinion about it. It's just a way to change the gameplay mechanics to make it more shooter-ish. And all the theory or lore about it is simply some excuse to make it look less obvious.



For the gameplay aspect, it's fine, it's more shooter-ish. But for the story aspect, it's pretty lame. Who in the world, I mean in the universe, considering different species and technology, would use universal ammo for all the weapons?

[sinosleep]

I like them. I play on hardcore and have never run out of ammunition on anything other than a heavy weapon, and even then I've only run out of heavy weapon ammo two or three times since I save it or bosses. If you can aim well, then ammo is never a problem.

To those complaining about the lore, it's not breaking it.

This is the lore....

All modern infantry weapons from pistols to assault rifles use micro-scaled mass accelerator technology. Projectiles consist of tiny metal slugs suspended within a mass-reducing field, accelerated by magnetic force to speeds that inflict kinetic damage.

The ammo magazine is a simple block of metal. The gun's internal computer calculates the mass needed to reach the target based on distance, gravity, and atmospheric pressure, then shears off an appropriate sized slug from the block. A single block can supply thousands of rounds, making ammo a non-issue during any engagement.

Top-line weapons also feature smart targeting that allows them to correct for weather and environment. Firing on a target in a howling gale feels the same as it does on a calm day on a practice range. Smart targeting does not mean a bullet will automatically find the mark every time the trigger is pulled; it only makes it easier for the marksman to aim.

Doesn't mention anything there about heat management, which is what the "ammo" change is about and as such there's no lore to go against. Weapons still have practically unlimited ammo, they just have a set number of shots to heat sincs. I like this mechanic better both from a lore perspective and from a game play perspective.

So, once again.

IT
DOES
NOT
BREAK
THE
LORE

__________________________

Not only that, but once again, I play on hardcore as a vanguard, I have NEVER RUN OUT OF AMMO. I love tps/fps games, so I'm sure that helps, but unless you can't hit the broadside of a barn you shouldn't be running out of ammo. For the love of God, THERE ARE INFINITELY RESPAWNING AMMO POINTS in a lot of these levels.

And before someone else mentions how they don't want to "look" for ammo, do you look or terminals? Wall safes? ANYTHING ELSE? Cause if you do, then you'll be finding the ammo while you're looking for them. It's not as if ammo is all hidden away in areas of the game that contain nothing other than ammo.

Modifié par sinosleep, 30 janvier 2010 - 06:18 .

[JGray]

It isn't actually reloading. Nor is there one type of clip for your SMG and one type for your pistol. From what I can figure out, here's how it works:



Your weapon has X spaces for thermal clips. Each of these clips can absorb X amount of heat (which translates into shots). When a thermal clip is full the weapon won't fire until the clip is ejected. That's what "reloading" is. All the heat is removed entirely from the weapon and its free to fire once again.



So, you aren't popping out one clip and then popping in another. That's why when your shotgun runs out of clips your SMG still has them. They're already installed in your SMG. I suppose if you wanted to take the time to remove them from one weapon and install them in another you could (not as a game mechanic but in a 'if you were really there' sort of way). That would take more time than just holstering one weapon and pulling out another. Want to see how long it would take? Do an experiment. Get two of those kid's toys. The ball with slots you can push shapes through. Put all the shapes into ball 1. Then start the timer. Empty ball 1. Take the shapes you emptied from ball 1. Place them in ball 2. Stop the timer when you're done.



If you were in combat? You'd be dead.

[sinosleep]

Oh, and from a realism standpoint I think it's a far superior mechanic as well. When I was in the military m249 gunners had to carry an extra barrel with them. Why you ask? Well because upon sustained fire the barrel can get so hot that it begins to warp and melt rendering the weapon useless so gunners carry a spare in case they need to swap it out. Simply waiting around for the barrel to cool off isn't going to do anything for you cause of the temperatures you are dealing with.



The weapons in mass effect are sending projectiles out at incredible speeds, this requires power which in turn produces a lot of heat. I see the thermal clips working a lot like the replacement barrels on m249 machine guns. If you let it get to the point where it's inoperable (overheat) then air cooling isn't going to do jack, you need to replace something. Thermal clips have become that thing.

[Romeriez Galenar]

so..thermal clips never cool down and that's entirely realistic? Maybe in ME3 there will be lore about how all the ejected "Hot" thermal clips that ONLY SHEPARD has to use started unusually high numbers of fires on all the planets that Shepard visited and he's proclaimed "The fiery Menace"



Heh even that would fit in with the Lore better...



Shepard Modified his guns to use heat sinks just to screw with the ungrateful people on the planets he saved.



I like it!

[sinosleep]

Yeah, that's entirely realistic. See the gun barrel example. Trying to let it aircool isn't going to do squat. You HAVE to replace it.

[Warskullx]

The clips work and do a lot to improve the gameplay, people are just afraid of change. The only thing I would tweak about the system is to automatically refill ammo between battles.

[Eradyn]

I can work with them but I don't prefer them. Especially when it forces me to limit how often I can use my shotgun. As a VG, that is incredibly frustrating and counterproductive. Regardless what the devs have said before, I still think a hybrid system of a sort would have worked better, but that's just me.

[sinosleep]

Eradyn wrote...

I can work with them but I don't prefer them. Especially when it forces me to limit how often I can use my shotgun. As a VG, that is incredibly frustrating and counterproductive. Regardless what the devs have said before, I still think a hybrid system of a sort would have worked better, but that's just me.

What difficulty are you playing on, and how often do you play other shooters? I am playing on hardcore as a vanguard I didn't run out of ammo for the shotgun when it had 10 rounds, didn't when it had 15, and sure as hell haven't since I upgraded to 25. I use it almost exclusively only ocassionaly using handgun sniping from ranges where the shotgun just isn't viable, and even that has become more and more rare as my squadmates have matured into good enough crowd control guys for me to use charge a lot more often.

I mean, are you aware half the places you get into firefights have respawning ammo points? There's ammo all over the place in this game. Only weapon I've ever emptied out on was heavy weapons, and even then it's only happened two or three times since I save the heavy for boss battles and heavy mech fights.

Modifié par sinosleep, 30 janvier 2010 - 08:00 .

[Romeriez Galenar]

sinosleep wrote...

Yeah, that's entirely realistic. See the gun barrel example. Trying to let it aircool isn't going to do squat. You HAVE to replace it.

I know what you're saying...but the guns barrel will EVENTUALLY cool.  Apparently Heat Sinks NEVER do.

(Capitals are just for emphasis..not yelling or anything...)

My biggest problem with the thermal clips is the fact that you can't even load up on your ship prior to touching down on the planet.  Yeah, lets invade Planet X!  Wait I've only got 1 thermal clip... Heh never mind, I don't need more.  I'm sure I'll think of something while the 400 collectors are barreling down on me....

Modifié par Romeriez Galenar, 30 janvier 2010 - 08:03 .

[sinosleep]

So you'd be willing to sit for 15 minutes in game time waiting for a thermal clip to cool off? To me the whole thing was always an awful mechanic. If it ever got so hot as to make the weapon unusable it certainly wouldn't be cooling off in 30 seconds.

p.s. Honestly this is getting to the point where I'm considering simply downloading fraps, taping myself play a few missions, upload them on youtube and then simply reply with links to them on any ammo related threads. I serious can not comprehend how on earth anyone is ever running out of ammo.

Modifié par sinosleep, 30 janvier 2010 - 08:05 .

[Romeriez Galenar]

No..it'd be more like...I have 5 thermal clips and I'd cycle between them. I mean think of all the waste that's going on. I'm not sure what Thermal clips of made of, but you'd think they'd recycle them at some point...can't be a limitless technology can it?



The clips could have been part of the resource thing. Requiring a lot of minerals or something to create them. I guess making them rare so that finding more of them or making them was like a real achievement.

[Eradyn]

sinosleep wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

I can work with them but I don't prefer them. Especially when it forces me to limit how often I can use my shotgun. As a VG, that is incredibly frustrating and counterproductive. Regardless what the devs have said before, I still think a hybrid system of a sort would have worked better, but that's just me.

What difficulty are you playing on, and how often do you play other shooters? I am playing on hardcore as a vanguard I didn't run out of ammo for the shotgun when it had 10 rounds, didn't when it had 15, and sure as hell haven't since I upgraded to 25. I use it almost exclusively only ocassionaly using handgun sniping from ranges where the shotgun just isn't viable, and even that has become more and more rare as my squadmates have matured into good enough crowd control guys for me to use charge a lot more often.

I mean, are you aware half the places you get into firefights have respawning ammo points? There's ammo all over the place in this game. Only weapon I've ever emptied out on was heavy weapons, and even then it's only happened two or three times since I save the heavy for boss battles and heavy mech fights.

I can only recall two instances (read: mission areas) where ammo actually respawned for me.  I've actually been rather surprised at how "uncommon" it is for me to find ammo lying around.  Which is strange, and now that you mention finding all these respawning ammo clusters I'm wondering if there's an ongoing glitch in my game.  Because while I've found some like that in a couple of battle instances, it's not prevalent at all for me. o.O

[Romeriez Galenar]

in response to your p.s. The enemy dropping them seems to be random. Perhaps you're getting luckier than some? I generally only run out of the sniper ones and the heavy pistol/grenades.  I'm never completely out of them..but I just run out of the ones I really use, a lot of the time.

edited for coherencies sake.

Modifié par Romeriez Galenar, 30 janvier 2010 - 08:10 .

[sinosleep]

Romeriez Galenar wrote...

No..it'd be more like...I have 5 thermal clips and I'd cycle between them. I mean think of all the waste that's going on. I'm not sure what Thermal clips of made of, but you'd think they'd recycle them at some point...can't be a limitless technology can it?

The clips could have been part of the resource thing. Requiring a lot of minerals or something to create them. I guess making them rare so that finding more of them or making them was like a real achievement.

They're not rare though, that's my point. I literally, have NEVER run out of ammo on anything that wasn't a heavy weapon. And that's as a player that uses shotguns on practically everything. I only use the handgun for sniping when I'm too far away to use the shotgun (as in using the shotgun would result in 3 or 4 shots due to inaccuracy from range and a high probability of running out of ammo) and I use the SMG on heavy mechs when I run out of heavy weapon ammo.

As for what you bring with you, it's simply the way shooters have always functioned. Every shooter I've ever played in my life required you to pick up ammo, even if it was functionally infinite. If you were a decent player there was always enough ammo  on every level to make it so that if you picked it up you never ran out. It's the same here. There's no lore reason why Marcus Fenix doesn't bring more ammo with him in Gears, it's simply a gameplay mechanic that he has to find it. Same thing here. Could Shepard theoretically bring more clips? Sure, but Bioware has decided to emulate other shooters and as such he has to find more. And they've provided enough of it where it's functionally infinite any way.

[Romeriez Galenar]

Eradyn, perhaps difficulty level has something to do with it? I have your prob too. I only remember maybe two spots where there were any quantity of them lying around.



It's gotten to where I only go for headshots, so I can keep more ammo never knowing if I'll find more..and it's not really fun to run into a heavy mech with only the auto pistol.

[Jigero]

Romeriez Galenar wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

Yeah, that's entirely realistic. See the gun barrel example. Trying to let it aircool isn't going to do squat. You HAVE to replace it.

I know what you're saying...but the guns barrel will EVENTUALLY cool.  Apparently Heat Sinks NEVER do.

(Capitals are just for emphasis..not yelling or anything...)

My biggest problem with the thermal clips is the fact that you can't even load up on your ship prior to touching down on the planet.  Yeah, lets invade Planet X!  Wait I've only got 1 thermal clip... Heh never mind, I don't need more.  I'm sure I'll think of something while the 400 collectors are barreling down on me....

Actually your wrong, The Barrel may cool but they have to still has be changed, over heating a barrel carodes it, any mairne today will tell you, that you have to switch out a barrel even after one over heat.

Personally I loved the Thermal Clips, it really forced you to be tactical, you couldn't sit there and just take pot shots all day and it also gave you reason to use other guns. I loved jumping out of cover sprinting across enemy fire and grabing some new clips, then trying to run back before I was shot to death. It forced you to take new postions and advance forward and pick and chose your targets. Not only that be to be less liberal on what you spend time shooting.

[Dewnis]

Ammo > cooldown

[mewarmo990]

[sinosleep]

Romeriez Galenar wrote...

Eradyn, perhaps difficulty level has something to do with it? I have your prob too. I only remember maybe two spots where there were any quantity of them lying around.

It's gotten to where I only go for headshots, so I can keep more ammo never knowing if I'll find more..and it's not really fun to run into a heavy mech with only the auto pistol.

This is why I'm asking what difficulty you are playing on. I play on hardcore, it's the 2nd hardest difficulty in the game since Insanity is the hardest. I don't play on insanity because even though I've always played games on their hardest difficulty I've gotten over the childish need to beat it just because. I've come to the conclusion that game makers don't know how to make games hard, they simply know how to make them CHEAP. Just like in ME 1, the ai was just as stupid on insanity as it was on normal, and their weapons were just as garbage. It's just that they were blessed with immunity spam and obscene amounts of health and shields. That's not a harder experience, that's a cheaper experience. And as such I play this one on hardcore since I think it's the best balance between difficulty and cheese.

But back to the main point, since I play on hardcore, unless you are playing on Insanity my game should be harder than yours, and I never run out of ammo.

Modifié par sinosleep, 30 janvier 2010 - 08:19 .

[Romeriez Galenar]

overheating a barrel does not corrode it..it has a tendency to warp them and cause wear, also you could get a barrel stoppage and maybe an catastrophic barrel failure where a bullet becomes lodged and the max pressure of the barrel is exceeded.



They switch barrels out to fight that yes, but they also get to RE-USE the barrel unless its damaged. Heat sinks get switched out, only to never get used again and there's the problem.