338 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth Garrus]

NickolasDS wrote...

VasQuipQuip wrote...

I don't like it. Go back to over heating. And fix that.

Be different BioWare.

Different or Realistic?

The ammo is a step to realism. There's always a cost for these things, rather it be oil for your car or electricity for your computer.

Indeed. But realism in our world, in our time. Mass Effect was not exactly that...

I think the other system could be improved, not changed completely. The idea of making it more like our times and facts bothers me a little. You expect a sci-fi movie, or game, to present me with new, exciting ideas. The first one had it. Yes, it is always opened to improvement, but it didin´t have to be throwned away.

[Romeriez Galenar]

I'm playing on hard as well. I thought perhaps more ammo spawned on the harder difficulty levels since it would take more hits to kill. I guess that's not what's going on here. Hmm.

[Eradyn]

It could be difficulty. I play on "Normal." Like you, Romeriez, I've taken to having to restrict my shots to critical body-parts and to rely more on my biotics and tactics than being able to unload lead into enemies. It's also led to me having to restrict just when I pull out my shotgun (which is far less often than the SMG).  I would think "Normal" would have more (re)spawning clips than the harder difficulties, but I guess not.

Modifié par Eradyn, 30 janvier 2010 - 08:25 .

[Sean]

lVerticall wrote...

hybrid system would have been much better. Once you fire a certain amount of shots you can either wait for your weapon to cool down as in the first ME or reload the thermal clips, which would be a much more rapid option.

Who likes the new system and why? What changes would you make?

I actually thought it was going to be like that

I remember them saying only heavy weapons would use ammo, but the way they made clips is the exact same thing as ammo

it would have worked a lot better that if you wanted to reload quicker than press "x" to swap out thermal clips, if you are runnin low on clips then wait for your gun to cool down

it would've worked a lot better

and they should have brought back being able to find different weapons, armor, upgrades just by searching like in ME1

they should've given people a beta of ME2 just to make sure everyone would like it and if they didn't and gave feedback then it could be fixed

maybe they can do that with ME3, just a level, the level doesn't even have to really exist in the real game, just a test level

[Romeriez Galenar]

I guess I'll just get back to dealing with it. Perhaps it's something in my play style..but I don't see how I could use less ammo than I am..

[sinosleep]

See, if anyone should be having a hard time with ammo here it's me, since I'm playing on the harder difficulty. But I've had no issues whatsoever. I think I'll be downloading fraps tonight cause I can't think of what the issue could be. How often are you using squad powers to weaken enemies?

I mean the average fight for me goes like this. 3 unshielded/armoed foes in a group 2 shielded guys separated. I have Jack mass pull, then have Miranda warp the one in the middle to cause a biotic explosion usually killing all 3. If any are left alive they usually have next to no health left so they finish them off before I even get a chance to unless I decided to charge for no particular reason. I then charge one of the shielded guys and unload on him with the shotgun. Even with full health and shields 3 shots will kill them. By then Miranda has overload off of cool down I have her use it on the other shielded guy I charge him 2 shot gun blasts he's dead and at the end of the day I've killed 5 guys used 5 shots and have 1 clip at least sometimes 2. Considering they give out 4 or 5 a pop I'm right back to full. Rinse and repeat.

If characters aren't grouped close enough for that squad kill or there just aren't as many of them I get a bit more creative. Have Jack pull a single enemy, I charge into the pulled enemy usually resulting in an instakill cause they fly across the map, have Miranda overload someone one, charge that guy, and move from target to target that way.

Modifié par sinosleep, 30 janvier 2010 - 08:31 .

[manyfistss]

Never have problems with ammo, save perhaps boss fights where you got to lay tons of ammo to destroy it. Even then if you know where to aim and if you upgraded your weapon you'll do fine. I personally like thermal clips, they do improve the rate of fire. In mass combat there's going to be plenty of clips from dead foes and allies alike, so it doesn't matter if you can carry a few (a game mechanic thing).

[Cypher0020]

I'm a fan of the clips. I think my SMG has 400 shots.... and reloading around 5 or so keeps me in the action with a full clip nearly all the time.



I dunno... I just reload before I hit empty and I can take down mostly anything. I've never had a problem looking for ammo....it does add realism because a gun simply cannot fire forever

[DreamersImperial]

I like the system, but I think ammo could be dropped a little more frequently than it does. I'm a pistol junkie, have been since my very first ME1 playthrough, and when I run out of pistol ammo I get cranky.

[The-OC]

The hole idea of thermal clips is kinda flawed. Why would you sacrafise infinate ammo for a gun that never over heats. That i do like the ammo system but think pistols should have the over heat because it can be so easy to run low on ammo.

[Tristan Stormrage]

@ sinosleep and anyone who feels the same way,



Trying to compare ME universe weaponry with modern day weaponry is stupid(no offense).You're not taking into account the advancement in technology(150yrs in the future+a minimum of 100-150yrs advancement because of the prothean artifacts & other alien tech).And they also probably discovered new elements and hence we're able to make better(more heat resistant) alloys.



Of course,this would all be speculation if the thermal clip system was introduced in ME1 but anyone who has played ME1 knows that with a HMW X and frictionless material X upgrade,its almost impossible to overheat your weapon unless your endlessly firing your weapon just for kicks.

Hence it seems illogical the whole galaxy go from "wait for your weapon to cooldown for a minute(max)" even with the lowliest of weapons to, "you're a sitting duck if you run out of thermal clips" even for top of the line weapons.



Therefore,it does break the Lore and seems idiotic.Hence our suggestion of atleast using a hybrid system which kinda makes sense lore wise and also keeps both parties happy.Because with the current system it feels like the devs are trying to insult my intelligence.

[Johnson45]

I like thermal clips, I don't see how in any universe a gun could have unlimited ammo.



And there fast to reload aswell

[jrubal1462]

DreamersImperial wrote...

I like the system, but I think ammo could be dropped a little more frequently than it does. I'm a pistol junkie, have been since my very first ME1 playthrough, and when I run out of pistol ammo I get cranky.

I know exactly how you feel.  Picking up the assault rifle skill has done much to allay my crankiness though.  Or at least gives me a proper outlet.  Also, the infinite magic homing fireballs help.

On another note: I think Mech Warrior 2(ish) had a "hybrid heat system" similar to what was described above.  If you didn't want to wait for your weapons to cool down you could "Flush coolant", but you could only do it about 2-3 times per mission.  I like the current system though, I'm such a hoarder I would probably die before wasting a flush.

[sinosleep]

Tristan, lore isn't what you could or couldn't do in game, it's what is actually understood in the world through codex. Since the codex didn't mention anything about heat dissipation it leaves bioware free to retcon heatsincs in as they please. The weapon combo you sited was gamebreaking and as such bioware has simply ignored it.



Just because you want them to accept it into the canon doesn't make it so.

[Mezinger]

Yeah the thermal clips are lame... give me back the old system for sure, event without the ability to sort through the inventory.

[Zugnokorr]

Never had to worry about letting a weapon cool down in the first one. This time the combat feels a lot more polished and requires a little bit more effort, so I like the thermal clips. They actually make it so I cant just run through a level with the left mouse button held down spraying everything.

[Destructo-Bot]

So don't play like that, and don't force people that LIKE to play like that not to.

[NickolasDS]

Darth Suetam wrote...

NickolasDS wrote...

VasQuipQuip wrote...

I don't like it. Go back to over heating. And fix that.

Be different BioWare.

Different or Realistic?

The ammo is a step to realism. There's always a cost for these things, rather it be oil for your car or electricity for your computer.

Indeed. But realism in our world, in our time. Mass Effect was not exactly that...

I think the other system could be improved, not changed completely. The idea of making it more like our times and facts bothers me a little. You expect a sci-fi movie, or game, to present me with new, exciting ideas. The first one had it. Yes, it is always opened to improvement, but it didin´t have to be throwned away.

Like I said, the cost. Most of the technology in ME has extreme costs, but all is paid off beause they can scan and pick up the minerals needed, from any planet around. The costs are still there. The ammo system of ME1 felt out of place with all of that.

[Tristan Stormrage]

sinosleep wrote...

Tristan, lore isn't what you could or couldn't do in game, it's what is actually understood in the world through codex. Since the codex didn't mention anything about heat dissipation it leaves bioware free to retcon heatsincs in as they please. The weapon combo you sited was gamebreaking and as such bioware has simply ignored it.

Just because you want them to accept it into the canon doesn't make it so.

I have to disagree.Codex is there to provide some sort of background rather than be the entirety of ME lore.
If that were the case then little things like usage of Shotguns,Sniper Rifles,Grenades,etc, would not be considered canon as there is no mention of specific weapons other than Pistol and Assult Rifles in the codex.Same holds true for Biotic and Tech Powers(Not the names but the effect of those abilities).

If I were to say 'Shepard used HMW X weapon' , then yes, thats a gameplay choice and not canon.But to say such weapons existed is canon.

[Veex]

Firstly let me say that I prefer this combat system to the previous one used in Mass Effect. Thermal clips and limited ammo, with the overall more responsive feel of the game, make it a more satisfying TPS.



That said, I think a lot of the complaints about running out of ammo may stem from folks trying to "spray" like they did in Mass Effect, and not making full use of all of their character's abilities.

[Skemte]

I actually like the clips as a interesting mechanic. Though I honestly wish that guns like the heavy pistol (at least hte carnifex) had higher ammo counts. To me I see little reason in using it outside of the guys that have armor I have to penetrate, even then with incidenary rounds a smg seems to do more damage against armor then the pistol can do..

[sinosleep]

Think what you will but it doesn't apply. It'd be like saying, well in KOTOR my ubre upgraded lightsaber killed even the highest level mobs in 2 hits therefore the lore of KOTOR must now reflect that there are lightsabers out there that can do as such and if not it's breaking the lore.



Having that specific weapon with those particular upgrades and it's ability to essentially fire forever without any kind of drawback isn't a part of the lore. What it is is a broken gameplay mechanic.

[Eradyn]

Veex wrote...

Firstly let me say that I prefer this combat system to the previous one used in Mass Effect. Thermal clips and limited ammo, with the overall more responsive feel of the game, make it a more satisfying TPS.

That said, I think a lot of the complaints about running out of ammo may stem from folks trying to "spray" like they did in Mass Effect, and not making full use of all of their character's abilities.

I don't spray and I rely more on my powers (I'm a Vanguard).

Regardless, I still think a happy medium could have, and should have, been reached.  Not that the current system isn't "workable" (the old system was as well), but I don't think going from one extreme to the other is the best way of resolving whatever issues are found in either system.

[Ross10]

As far as gameplay goes, I'm not a fan of limited ammo. Hoarding ammunition is my LEAST favorite aspect of shooters in general, and why I generally play more RPGs than shooters in the first place. I was not pleased to discover that they'd imported that "feature" into one of my favorite RPGs.

But I am prepared to acknowledge that I may be in the minority. If Bioware is correct and more people want a shooter with RPG elements than want an RPG with shooter elements, then they did the right thing by giving the majority of people what they want. (Of course, if they were NOT correct and misread what people want, then they just plain screwed up.)

From an in-game perspective, I have to agree that it makes zero sense. Even assuming the codex is correct and clips let you put more shots downrange faster... it's still obviously true that an old-style overheating/cooldown weapon is better than a clip weapon that's out of clips, and I find it hard to believe either that it's impossible to combine the two somehow (the "hybrid" approach referenced by many in this thread) or that everyone in the galaxy would switch to the new system.

If Bioware was insistent on making this change, then they could at least have come up with a less idiotic in-game justification for it.

[dirgerus]

work's well for me only thing that could be improved is enemies dropping more ammo it's a bit stingey with it i've ran out quite a few time's not good when your trying too take out a geth prime.