338 réponses à ce sujet

[Kalfear]

They suck, nothing else really needs to be said!

Ammo system was complete failure

[pjtp]

I don't mind the clips, I don't really think it's any better or worse than the ME mechanic. It's just different, and different I can handle.



However, the shotguns and sniper rifles really need more clips.



I hear what people are saying regarding the balance of the sniper rifle, but frankly, if I want to play the game as a marksman, then why shouldn't I be allowed to? This is still an RPG right?



Maybe I like getting into a good position and covering my team-mates as they advance through the battle field. Running out of ammo after a handful of shots is really frustrating. For a game where the combat is such a big part, it's so frustrating being locked into a small number of combat styles.

[PendragonX]

The only part I find annoying about them is that even though you have used the therm clip in therory heat should still disapate allowing you to shoot even if you are out of clips(albeit at a MUCH slower rate)

[Jigero]

For all the people who are complaining about the clips, at the end of the day you just suck at the game and should play on a lower difficulty, I've beaten this game on insane twice now and I have yet to say, "god those clips sure are annoying", It's not Biowares fault you can't play a game properly. They even tried to help you by adding difficulty settings, if you can't handle insane with out ****ing about clips and dying every 5 seconds because of it, guess what you shouldn't be playing on insane your obviously not good enough. It's not BW's job to make sure all you terribad gamers are happy. L2p, suck it up or just don't play at all, because no one cares

[Zhaocore]

Cant share clips with other guns? but the clips themselves can be used on all your guns? what now?

[kiyyto]

 They are a step backward from ME.
It is boring to have to stare at the ground to collect ammo, when in ME the lore was better and you didn't have to run over every body you killed.

[sinosleep]

Legion's loyalty quest. Using nothing but the shotgun even on things I should have switched for just for the sake of argument.



(part 1)

(part 2)



If you are running out of ammo, you are doing it wrong.

[jmark22]

Here's my opinion on "ammo" in ME2.

Besides being unnecessary, thermal clips have added a lot of confusion.  A lot of that stems from them behaving like and being called "ammo".  Ammunition usually refers to the projectiles being fired out of the gun - the bullets.

In the ME universe, the projectiles being fired are tiny and are shaved from a block of metal and then accelerated to very high speed by mass effect fields.  This allows for thousands of rounds to be fired before having to "reload".  The limiting factor is the heat generated, so continuous fire will cause the gun to overheat and be unable to fire until it has cooled down.  In ME1, this was done passively and took about 5 seconds.

Thermal clips were added in ME2 so that when the gun overheats, you can simply replace the heat sink and then keep firing.  By definition, thermal clips =/= ammunition.  They are simply a way to keep your gun from overheating.

Here are the problems:

     1)  It is now impossible to passively cool the gun, as in ME1, now you must replace the thermal clip to continue firing.  Worse, the gun now overheats after a set number of shots, no matter how frequently you shoot.

     2)  Despite supposedly being universal, you can run out of thermal clips for a particular gun and are still able to switch guns and reload other guns.

What do these to things tell me?  Thermal clips = ammo.  They make no sense as disposable heat sinks.  Bioware simply forced a limited ammo mechanic into the Mass Effect universe and called them "thermal clips".  And it sucks.  It doesn't make the game unplayable, it's just unnecessary and contrived, and I hate feeling like I need to look around for thermal clips after clearing a room.  It is not fun and it breaks up the action (not in a good way).

[Soruyao]

I use nothing but snipers except for when I'm fighting husks and barrier foes and I -rarely- run out.

Accuracy is not an issue at all. It's not an issue of "L2P". All you need to do is open up the skill screen and use the paused time to line up a headshot. You will never miss doing that, and you will almost never need to switch weapons.

     1)  It is now impossible to passively cool the gun, as in ME1,
now you must replace the thermal clip to continue firing.  Worse, the
gun now overheats after a set number of shots, no matter how frequently
you shoot.

The explanation that makes the most sense is that the heat sinks are filled with some sort of super cooled liquid.  Every time you fire, you melt some of the liquid.   When you eject the heat sink, you're just ejecting the empty case and the gaseous form of what was in the sink.   If you tried to fire the gun without a heat sink it would be like starting the car without any radiator fluid.  It'll burn up and break.

The only thing that doesn't make much sense is how we fill up every gun at once when we pick up a heat sink.   This is the one thing that feels like a place where gameplay trumps lore.   Being encouraged to switch weapons sometimes is a good thing.  It encourages a varied playstyle.

Modifié par Soruyao, 01 février 2010 - 02:30 .

[Romeriez Galenar]

Soruyao wrote...

I use nothing but snipers except for when I'm fighting husks and barrier foes and I -rarely- run out.

Accuracy is not an issue at all. It's not an issue of "L2P". All you need to do is open up the skill screen and use the paused time to line up a headshot. You will never miss doing that, and you will almost never need to switch weapons.

Sorry but I call BS on that. I'm only level 10 in the game, and I just did a mission where you locate a downed ship and get ambushed.  9 shots with the sniper rifle and I was out for the entire mission.  I even did something no real soldier would do, leaving cover to look for ammo.  None was to be found.  For the record all 9 shots were headshots, and they were not ALL insta-kills.

I don't use the sniper rifle all the time, and I don't expect to.  But when you're getting ambushed from two sides by waves of enemies it was the best tool for the job.  I play an infiltrator though and the sniper rifle is part of the class skill and sadly Bioware decided to deny me any semblence of tactics. 

I get it I really do.  Some people must be the luckiest of the lucky with regards to ammo drops, yes I'm looking at you Sinosphere.  I'm really glad you've got too much ammo, but sadly I'm not one of the ones that has scores of ammo popping out at them from everywhere.  So far in my game the only places there are stashes of "ammo" are during the main quest areas.  Someone mentioned the sniper quest thing, and yes there was plenty there.  Too bad I couldn't fill my pack with it to use later.

The fact that they limit you so badly, and then don't provide a merchant to buy the sinks from, or a place on your ship to at least start out with a full load for each weapon is a complete oversight, and quite frankly unrealistic and immersion killing particular.  What soldier goes into battle without a full set of clips?  A dumb one that will soon be dead.  Add to that the fact that they NEVER EVER cool down and poof there goes all sense of Immersion.  Nothing stays hot forever, not even suns (which you can drive your spaceship through lol)

The game is great, I enjoy it and I like it a lot.  I do not however like the Heat clip/ammo situation.  They need to make more available, increase the drop rate a tad or something. 

[sinosleep]

Did you not see the video dude? Look, I'll record myself playing any damned mission you want. There aren't an overtly large amount of drops on my game or an insanely low drop rate on yours, you just either a.) are lying about your aim b.) don't use your squad enough. Just name a mission. I'm fixing to start a new run any way so I can even do low level crap if you want me to.

[edit here] Actually you know what, since I actually own up to my mistakes I'm not going to edit out the original post. I'm just going to add this, I may well be wrong when it comes to sniper rifles. My area of expertise is with shotguns, pistols, and the smg. I haven't had the hands on time with sniper rifles to make a determination about whether or not it's feasible to use them for the majority of the game without having any ammo problems. Though I'll record myself playing with sniper rifles just to see if I can get away with it and I'm confident that I can. I don't see why I wouldn't be able to considering the shotgun like the sniper rifle is a high powered weapon with limited ammo.

Modifié par sinosleep, 01 février 2010 - 03:13 .

[pjtp]

Soruyao wrote...
Accuracy is not an issue at all. It's not an issue of "L2P". All you need to do is open up the skill screen and use the paused time to line up a headshot. You will never miss doing that, and you will almost never need to switch weapons.

If you want to play the game that way, then that's your choice. Pausing the game and aiming for every sniper shot really isn't how I want to play the game.

I just want to play as a marksman every now and again, but the game won't let me. It won't let me because I only get ten shots before I have to run around like an idiot trying to find more ammo (yes, I know technically it's not ammo, but
let's face it... it's the exact same mechanic.)

It's not the end of the world, but it would be nice if something could be done about it.

Modifié par pjtp, 01 février 2010 - 03:23 .

[Romeriez Galenar]

You seem to be taking it a little personal there sinosleep (spelled your name wrong above, I am sorry it wasn't on purpose.)



I uh, don't think this is an issue worth getting all worked up about. I'm complaining about how I feel there's not enough ammo drops/heat sink capacity of the sniper/heavy weapons in my opinion during my play, not that the game is crap because of that..



I never called you a liar either. I didn't watch your videos, and I probably won't. I took you at your word, and I hope you would do me the courtesy of taking me at mine as well. I have no reason to lie about this, what do I gain by it? I'm not even calling for the return of limitless ammo though that wouldn't offend me either. All I really want is the drop rate to be tweaked a small bit. The game is playable as it is, but does not really fit my playstyle and the way that I RP shephard from the beginning.



I believe however, that the random drops cannot be the same on two machines, and in my own experience are not the same. Playing from one save of a battle, and then a reload of the same save file through the battle shows it varies quite wildly.



I completely agree that there are places where the Dev's knew you'd need more ammo, and they hand placed it there. I will agree even that the ammo in those places is MORE than you need, as it even seems to refresh. That does not mean there aren't places where the ammo fails to randomly drop often enough, and it definitely doesn't mean that one play through versus another will have exactly the same amount of ammo.



Please understand, this isn't an issue that I feel strongly enough to argue to the point where I think we may be taking it, so I will not be posting on this issue again. I'll just carry on enjoying the game, while quietly wishing the ammo would drop just a bit more frequently and I do hope you hold no angst toward me for my views.



Be well.

[binaryemperor]

Yeah, to be honest I'm not too big on the thermal clips myself. I'd rather overheat every two seconds rather than look for ammo. Maybe in ME3 the characters can have liquid cooling reservoirs in their suits or something. Of course then THEY would overheat.



OH I GOT IT! Firing your gun makes you take damage! Adds a whole new tactical level to the game.

[IggyD]

i think a hybrid version of ME1 and ME2's heat management systems would be best (could be applied in an update). Basically, regenerating ammo: Say you run out of heat capacity, you either wait for the heat sink to slowly purge itself or eject it and get back into the fight. It would add a slight resource management element to the combat, and it wouldn't be a slap in the face of the established technological backstory.

an additional feature to consider: keep firing your gun without ejecting the saturated sink, and you run the risk of it exploding and killing you.

Modifié par IggyD, 01 février 2010 - 06:29 .

[Duckduden]

In Me3 we should get a pistol with the old cooldown system, as a backup weapon when were out of clips.

[Jarys]

Sinosleep, while many people in this thread are playing in lesser difficulties, play a vangaurd in insanity.

Do it.

Ok, now gloat about never running out of ammo, ever. 
Thought so.

Enough with with the 'lol, im so smart, amazing, and tactically aware, i nevar evar run out of ammos.'
When you can use jack and lift half your enemies before they even start shooting, that isnt tactics, thats freaking easy (your 'strategy' btw).

I've completed one playthrough on an adept on hardcore and one as a soldier on insanity, and the level of defenses people have against that sort of one shot incapacitation is exponentially larger, meaning you have to create that sort of opening, you dont get it handed to you.

On a side topic, hopefully at some point they change biotics to be usable on shielded enemies at least, i miss the screaming into the distance that you can do with mass pull/throw.

[chosama]

I really dont care about the reload that was one of the things I loved about ME2 cause ME1 was kinda boring if u were a soldier and do the no overheat skill and done and u do it again and it was boring.

[kaealy]

It's laughable that people even mention realism as an argument in a game where you travel between star systems and nail aliens every other day.



It's also laughable that some say people fear "change", how is having a ammo system like 99% of the other shooters out there is anything but trying to change.

[jmark22]

kaealy wrote...

It's laughable that people even mention realism as an argument in a game where you travel between star systems and nail aliens every other day.

Quite frankly, I'm sick of hearing this kind of response.  What people really mean when they say they want something to be 'realistic' in a game like this is that they want it to make sense.  To be believable.

realistic - having or showing a sensible and practical idea of what can be achieved or expected

Here's an example.  The thermal clip mechanic is not realistic to me because I can run out of thermal clips for one gun and still be able to use another even though thermal clips are supposed to be universal.

[sinosleep]

Jarys wrote...

Sinosleep, while many people in this thread are playing in lesser difficulties, play a vangaurd in insanity.

Do it.

Ok, now gloat about never running out of ammo, ever. 
Thought so.

Enough with with the 'lol, im so smart, amazing, and tactically aware, i nevar evar run out of ammos.'
When you can use jack and lift half your enemies before they even start shooting, that isnt tactics, thats freaking easy (your 'strategy' btw).

I've completed one playthrough on an adept on hardcore and one as a soldier on insanity, and the level of defenses people have against that sort of one shot incapacitation is exponentially larger, meaning you have to create that sort of opening, you dont get it handed to you.

On a side topic, hopefully at some point they change biotics to be usable on shielded enemies at least, i miss the screaming into the distance that you can do with mass pull/throw.

This is the silliest post in this thread. Pray tell what are your squadmates there for? I do believe the answer is to help you in battle. And yet here you are claiming that if instead of running around like a putz and trying to be rambo, I actually use my squad mates as often as possible isn't a strategy, it's "easy". NO genius, its WHAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO DO. It's a squad based game, USE your squad. And my usual squad doesn't even have Jack in it any more, it's been upgraded. I know most enemies in the game have armor as opposed to shields so I bring Samara along and use mass reave all the time. Miranda warps anyone who is left over, I shockwave the lot of them gameover. I I know I'm going to be dealing with geth I bring Miranda and someone that has ai hacking. Mass overload, mass ai hacking, kill the rest, gameover. But no, you're right, even though it's a squad based game it's meant to be played without ever utilizing them. LOL, what a muppet.

As for insanity, here are the facts. Clearly, quite a few people here are having ammo issues at lower difficulties. Not one or two, but MOST in this thread. Every time I've asked for a difficulty in this thread, it's been lower than hardcore. Even in most other threads, it's been lower than hardcore. The reason I haven't tried insanity yet is cause Bioware doesn't know how to make a game difficult, they know how to make a game CHEESY. In Modern Warfare when you set the difficulty to the highest setting a headshot is still a headshot, you're the one that dies quicker. In Mass Effect you still had the same horrendously moronic AI, using the same stupid tactics and weapons, except they had access to the incredibly cheesy immunity spam. Did I beat it on immunity? Yeah, cause I usually beat EVERYTHING on the hardest difficulty. But was it fun? No, it's was irritating. It's like when you play a fighting game and instead of giving the end boss some nice combos and quick counters they just allow him to break the game mechanics. The boss can't be juggled, the boss has 3 life bars, the boss can't be countered. The boss has 2 insta-kill moves. That doesn't make the game more difficult, it turns the game into a cheesefest. Even though I haven't played ME 2 on insanity, I'm guessing it does the same thing from what I've seen on the forums. Insanity isn't hard, it's just goddamned cheesy.

I've found hardcore to be the best balance between upgraded enemies and cheese, so that's more than likely what I'll stick to. I might try insanity out for kicks though, and quite frankly I can still talk all the **** I want to anyone not playing on insanity.

p.s. If you have actually been reading this thread then you should know that my stance hasn't really been one of superiority any way. Just like when I replied to the guy about shotguns being the easiest weapon to use as far as riticule placement part of the reason that I have a hard time believing so many people are running out of ammo is that I DON'T consider what I do to be particularly complicated. In fact, I think most of it is common sense, so I figured it would be widespread, and as such not many people would have been running out of ammo.

Modifié par sinosleep, 01 février 2010 - 03:14 .

[Darth Obvious]

Jarys wrote...

Sinosleep, while many people in this thread are playing in lesser difficulties, play a vangaurd in insanity.

Do it.

Ok, now gloat about never running out of ammo, ever. 
Thought so.

Haven't tried Vanguard, but as a Sentinel on Insanity I have yet to run out of ammo once. Of course, I am using Warp and Overload almost constantly with Shep and Miranda. 

[cerberus4417]

I didn't feel it added anything to the game.  I understand they wanted to break up the comabt and have a little strategy.  I don't mind having to reload, but have unlimited heat sinks.  

[WillieStyle]

pjtp wrote...

Soruyao wrote...
Accuracy is not an issue at all. It's not an issue of "L2P". All you need to do is open up the skill screen and use the paused time to line up a headshot. You will never miss doing that, and you will almost never need to switch weapons.

If you want to play the game that way, then that's your choice. Pausing the game and aiming for every sniper shot really isn't how I want to play the game.

I don't play the game that way either but I don't run out of ammo.  

I just want to play as a marksman every now and again, but the game won't let me. It won't let me because I only get ten shots before I have to run around like an idiot trying to find more ammo (yes, I know technically it's not ammo, but
let's face it... it's the exact same mechanic.)

I use the sniper rifle almost exclusively on my Infiltrator. I play as a marksman and the game doesn't stop me.  I find that I get all the ammo I need by killing efficiently and advancing from one covered position to another.

[HedStr8EyesTite]

i think the system is fine... i think calling them thermal clips and saying the disperse the heat is stupid. it works like a clip of ammo, why not just keep it simple and call it ammo/bullets/whatever.