48 réponses à ce sujet

[Pacific Ninja]

Ch40sFox wrote...

Illusive Man is definitely the Shadow Broker..... no way he knows all that he knows, has access to the funds he has, and resources he has without being the Shadow Broker...

Theyve always said that it could be a group of people.... or a single man...

Why not both?

Cerberus has several cells running, all of which run completely independently and report directly to TIM...

It makes the most sense.

yea it actualy does make sense... did u ever do the mission when you have to find the observer for liara??? i failed that one

[ashmiranda3waymm]

WKlingbeil1 wrote...

Haha, I do like your 1 and 2 options, however, I don't like the idea of not having closure as paragon, and I don't think the devs would either. They're supposed to end the Shepard trilogy at 3, so they have to have complete closure there. I think it's possible, but I'm sure either way will end up with Reaper destruction (involving some core computer you hack and destroy the entire fleet with, I'm sure).

I guess I'm thinking the paragon option will lead to the scattering and defeat of the reapers to the extent that they will not be a problem again for a long long time. The renegade option will lead to the annihilation of the reapers (including the technology to defeat them again), but requires massive amounts of collateral damage.

Even though popular opinion may disagree, Bioware has been careful to make renegade choices (aside from the occasional punching of random people) any less moral than paragon options. I justify letting the council die in ME1 because they were an acceptable loss considering they sucked at leading anyway and throwing valuable reinforcements to save some sort of symbol seemed irresponsible. In ME2 I gave TIM the technology he asks for because atm we have no chance if the reaper fleet attacks, so worst case scenario for giving him the technology is no worse than the reapers winning (also the "we can take the reapers option" seemed absurdly naive).

If the option in ME3 is kill many aliens to establish human dominance or win with many fewer casualties, there seems to be an obvious "right" answer in that case.

But i digress, Bioware has done an excellent job in this series balancing the the paragon-renegade playstyles as a morally grey area and I do not think ME3 will disappoint.

[ashmiranda3waymm]

Pacific Ninja wrote...

Ch40sFox wrote...

Illusive Man is definitely the Shadow Broker..... no way he knows all that he knows, has access to the funds he has, and resources he has without being the Shadow Broker...

Theyve always said that it could be a group of people.... or a single man...

Why not both?

Cerberus has several cells running, all of which run completely independently and report directly to TIM...

It makes the most sense.

yea it actualy does make sense... did u ever do the mission when you have to find the observer for liara??? i failed that one

Sorry guys this cannot be reconciled with the Cerberus questline in ME1. At the end of "Hades Dogs" (I believe but not quite sure) an agent for the Shadow Broker calls you wanting to buy Cerberus' information from you. He is also not very persistent as he says he will just have someone else get the information if it is filed away in Alliance databases. This quest makes it pretty clear that the Shadow Broker and Cerberus are at odds.

Also, according to the mass effect wiki site:

"In Mass Effect:
Redemption [/i]the Shadow Broker was hired by the Collectors to retrieve
Shepard's body and deliver it to them."

I have not read the story so I cannot comment on the validity of the claim, but it seems pretty clear that TIM and the Shadow Broker are not the same person.

Modifié par ashmiranda3waymm, 30 janvier 2010 - 10:26 .

[Sharn01]

Old saying goes " The road to hell is paved with good intention's".

[Ch40sFox]

ashmiranda3waymm wrote...

Pacific Ninja wrote...

Ch40sFox wrote...

Illusive Man is definitely the Shadow Broker..... no way he knows all that he knows, has access to the funds he has, and resources he has without being the Shadow Broker...

Theyve always said that it could be a group of people.... or a single man...

Why not both?

Cerberus has several cells running, all of which run completely independently and report directly to TIM...

It makes the most sense.

yea it actualy does make sense... did u ever do the mission when you have to find the observer for liara??? i failed that one

Sorry guys this cannot be reconciled with the Cerberus questline in ME1. At the end of "Hades Dogs" (I believe but not quite sure) an agent for the Shadow Broker calls you wanting to buy Cerberus' information from you. He is also not very persistent as he says he will just have someone else get the information if it is filed away in Alliance databases. This quest makes it pretty clear that the Shadow Broker and Cerberus are at odds.

Possibly another cell trying to locate and obtain information on other cells.... anyone can pose as an agent for the Shadow Broker, easily... its not that hard....

TIM is the Shadow Broker, no doubt in my mind at all.... it is the only logical thing that makes sense...

Modifié par Ch40sFox, 30 janvier 2010 - 10:24 .

[jimmyjoefro]

TIM is a xenophobe. He doesn't ally himself with non-humans.

[ashmiranda3waymm]

jimmyjoefro wrote...

TIM is a xenophobe. He doesn't ally himself with non-humans.

Are you just generalizing? Because no one whose purpose was to advance humanity would engage in mutually beneficial agreements with non-humans, am I right? Does he not tell Shepard to recruit members from many different species to fight the collectors?

[DK_DOOM]

Illusive Man being Shadow Broker is an interesting concept, except that if you ask him about Liara, he recommends not recruiting her because she might be working for the Shadow Broker.

[Ch40sFox]

Why wouldnt he? Recruiting her would lead Liara directly to the person she wants to kill.... the Illusive man... If anyone can track a Quantum Entaglement Device, itd be Liara...



Thats why he discourages it...



TIM sets up a trap for Shepard to walk into the Collectors hands..... TIM is not above using people briefly and then dumping them...



What was it Jacob said?



"Hiding bull**** behind a smile."

[marshalleck]

TIM can't be the Shadow Broker, the Shadow Broker has been active in the galaxy since long before humans traveled the relay network.

[ashmiranda3waymm]

It just doesn't seem practical that TIM would be both the head of Cerberus and the Shadow Broker. That is two major organizations to run while trying to keep his identity from leaking through multiple channels.

[jimmyjoefro]

ashmiranda3waymm wrote...

jimmyjoefro wrote...

TIM is a xenophobe. He doesn't ally himself with non-humans.

Are you just generalizing? Because no one whose purpose was to advance humanity would engage in mutually beneficial agreements with non-humans, am I right? Does he not tell Shepard to recruit members from many different species to fight the collectors?

He'll let Shepard use aliens to help him achieve whatever it was (seems like he was all about getting that Collector ship), but I don't see him trusting aliens with sensitive info as the Shadow Broker.  Besides, why would he be trying to buy information on his own corporation or whatever Cerberus is.

[ashmiranda3waymm]

jimmyjoefro wrote...

ashmiranda3waymm wrote...

jimmyjoefro wrote...

TIM is a xenophobe. He doesn't ally himself with non-humans.

Are you just generalizing? Because no one whose purpose was to advance humanity would engage in mutually beneficial agreements with non-humans, am I right? Does he not tell Shepard to recruit members from many different species to fight the collectors?

He'll let Shepard use aliens to help him achieve whatever it was (seems like he was all about getting that Collector ship), but I don't see him trusting aliens with sensitive info as the Shadow Broker.  Besides, why would he be trying to buy information on his own corporation or whatever Cerberus is.

I agree with you that it wouldn't make much sense that he is not the Shadow Broker but it has nothing to do with xenophobia.

[Pacific Ninja]

jimmyjoefro wrote...

ashmiranda3waymm wrote...

jimmyjoefro wrote...

TIM is a xenophobe. He doesn't ally himself with non-humans.

Are you just generalizing? Because no one whose purpose was to advance humanity would engage in mutually beneficial agreements with non-humans, am I right? Does he not tell Shepard to recruit members from many different species to fight the collectors?

He'll let Shepard use aliens to help him achieve whatever it was (seems like he was all about getting that Collector ship), but I don't see him trusting aliens with sensitive info as the Shadow Broker.  Besides, why would he be trying to buy information on his own corporation or whatever Cerberus is.

theres actaly more than one cerberus .. "Cerberus Cells" work individualy

[jimmyjoefro]

Sure it does. He won't trust aliens because of his xenophobia.

[DK_DOOM]

Ch40sFox wrote...

Why wouldnt he? Recruiting her would lead Liara directly to the person she wants to kill.... the Illusive man... If anyone can track a Quantum Entaglement Device, itd be Liara...

Thats why he discourages it...

TIM sets up a trap for Shepard to walk into the Collectors hands..... TIM is not above using people briefly and then dumping them...

What was it Jacob said?

"Hiding bull**** behind a smile."

Very interesting scenario, I like it.

[jimmyjoefro]

Pacific Ninja wrote...

jimmyjoefro wrote...

ashmiranda3waymm wrote...

jimmyjoefro wrote...

TIM is a xenophobe. He doesn't ally himself with non-humans.

Are you just generalizing? Because no one whose purpose was to advance humanity would engage in mutually beneficial agreements with non-humans, am I right? Does he not tell Shepard to recruit members from many different species to fight the collectors?

He'll let Shepard use aliens to help him achieve whatever it was (seems like he was all about getting that Collector ship), but I don't see him trusting aliens with sensitive info as the Shadow Broker.  Besides, why would he be trying to buy information on his own corporation or whatever Cerberus is.

theres actaly more than one cerberus .. "Cerberus Cells" work individualy

There's one Cerberus.  It has multiple cells. Just think of large corporations, like Sony for example.  Sony is an entertainment company, but has different divisions, like music, film, electronics, gaming, etc..  TIM is in charge of all that is Cerberus. 

Modifié par jimmyjoefro, 30 janvier 2010 - 10:55 .

[marshalleck]

Ch40sFox wrote...

If anyone can track a Quantum Entaglement Device, itd be Liara...

What? Since when is Liara a tech specialist?

Oh wait, after her character got rewritten. Right.

[Elios]

TIM = Shadow Broker /thread

[asaiasai]

The elusive man is your typical executive who has only one motivation, money, which means power. These people are as addicted to money as a crack head to crack, and there is never going to be enough to sate thier addiction. TIM can not and should not ever be trusted period. This would be like a inviting the neighborhood crackhead in your home unsupervised for an afternoon. You have no one to blame but yourself.



Asai

[ashmiranda3waymm]

Elios wrote...

TIM = Shadow Broker /thread

You hear that guys it looks like this debate is over because Elios decided his conjecture is absolute truth. Honestly I hate statements with not argument or proof with "/thread" at the end of it. It indeed makes you look like an inconsiderate ***hole who can't get up from his computer because you're weighed down by narcissism and hot pockets.

[Jaina Twoseas]

How do we know he's human anyway? Could be a hologram... seriously, if someone is smoking so much stuff all day he should be dead.

[Elios]

ashmiranda3waymm wrote...

Elios wrote...

TIM = Shadow Broker /thread

You hear that guys it looks like this debate is over because Elios decided his conjecture is absolute truth. Honestly I hate statements with not argument or proof with "/thread" at the end of it. It indeed makes you look like an inconsiderate ***hole who can't get up from his computer because you're weighed down by narcissism and hot pockets.

Narcissism yes; Hotpockets not so much

[Schneidend]

ashmiranda3waymm wrote...

This would only be true if TIM was in fact the devil. I find him to be a very honorable man myself.

Honorable men don't loudly proclaim that "Cerberus IS humanity." I too once thought as you do, but the ending made me see the truth of it. All Illusive Man cares about is winning, even if it means turning humanity into something else.