631 réponses à ce sujet

[Abriael_CG]

Medhia Nox wrote...
I believe most of "us" are simply stating - we want an option - or you don't want our business.

So, again, you're basically saying that you can't enjoy a game in which you can't play a gay main character?

If you can, then you have no reason to complain. If you cannot, well, that's rather shallow.

@Lightice_av : how funny. You come here to endlessly argue and have nothing personal at stake? So basically you're arguing for the sake of it. Interesting that with that you have the guts to call others trolls.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 01 février 2010 - 06:15 .

[Lightice_av]

If you can, then you have no reason to complain. If you cannot, well, that's rather shallow.

There's plenty of reason to complain if their option of all the possible ones is excluded - especially when it's been established that in this community complaining pays. Stop being so ridiculously black and white; people can enjoy this game without a specific romance option, but they would still enjoy it more with it included.

Also, why are you here? If you don't care, then what's the point to your presence?

@Lightice_av :
how funny. You come here to endlessly argue and have nothing personal
at stake? So basically you're arguing for the sake of it. Interesting
that with that you have the guts to call others trolls.

You just don't get it. Why would someone argue without a personal stake? Why would someone do anything if they didn't get something out of it? Maybe because they feel morally compelled to defend other people? Because they want to be of assistance? Because they like to be useful? 
You're not intimidating me. Stop wasting your time.

Modifié par Lightice_av, 01 février 2010 - 06:18 .

[Medhia Nox]

And Abriael_CG -



Did you have a romantic interest in the game? The opinions of people who speak from a place of privilege don't interest me at all.



If you haven't noticed - it states plainly that I have ME2. Obviously - being well aware that they're not going to add this element to the game - has not stopped me from purchasing the game.



So - what you're saying is - that you frequently buy games that you don't connect with? Good for you. I expect more substance out of my RPGs.. there are companies who will engage me in their products. I will spend my money on an item that takes my interests into consideration.

[Abriael_CG]

Lightice_av wrote...
There's plenty of reason to complain if their option of all the possible ones is excluded

Oh is that so? Then this forum would be made entirely of complaints. Maybe someone should start whining that there isn't a polyamorous shepard option. Damn, why can't I have all the girls in the game at the same time?

Also, why are you here? If you don't care, then what's the point to your presence?

Oh but i DO care. Being very familiar than resources in game development are finite (while someone here seems not to understand that), I'd much rather them spend all of their resources in the most popular options, in order for the game to be enjoyed at it's best by most people, instead of sprinkling developement resources on extremely secondary options to appease to every little whiny minority out there, with the result of having to cut corners on the most popular ones.
They cut enough corners already even without your help.

You just don't get it. Why would someone argue without a personal stake? Why would someone do anything if they didn't get something out of it? Maybe because they feel morally compelled to defend other people? Because they want to be of assistance? Because they like to be useful?

Behold the internet messiah

You're not intimidating me. Stop wasting your time.

Oooh, internet though guy too... charming. Who would want to intimidate you? I actually find your arguing for arguing sake quite humorous.

@Medhia Nox: you still didn't answer to my question, you can't connect with a game in which you can't play a gay character?

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 01 février 2010 - 06:32 .

[Captain Jazz]

Abriael_CG, transparency is only useful when you're not just looking to pick fights, move on or attempt some sophistication in your baiting, seriously, it's dull.

[Abriael_CG]

Captain Jazz wrote...

Abriael_CG, transparency is only useful when you're not just looking to pick fights, move on or attempt some sophistication in your baiting, seriously, it's dull.

Is it now? At least I'm not here arguing just for the sake of it like a certain poster is doing
Luckily, you're in no position to judge my motives, are you?

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 01 février 2010 - 06:41 .

[Eidolonn]

I demand ME2 to offer me the option to play the game with a character that has one hand missing.  That is wheelchair bound.  That has a small gap in between his top teeth that causes him to whistle his S's.  That has one leg that is a half inch shorter than the other.  That has parents that he can regularly call/visit.  Yada yada yada.

Spare me.

If you want to play a gay Shepard, go ahead.  Just role play it, don't get involved with female NPC's, and just realize that none of the male NPC's are gay.  You're here to save the human race, and if one of your side adventures of preference is not available, oh well.  Deal with it like the rest of us do when we don't get everything we want.

[Eidolonn]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Captain Jazz wrote...

Abriael_CG, transparency is only useful when you're not just looking to pick fights, move on or attempt some sophistication in your baiting, seriously, it's dull.

Is it now? At least I'm not here arguing just for the sake of it like a certain poster is doing
Lickily, you're in no position to judge my motives, are you?

I see the Freudian slip there. 

But yeah, Abriael, you're really being a bit abrasive just for effect.  It's really doing nothing for your credibility.  Let the trolls and flamers troll and flame.  I am pretty sure that you're typically above all of that.

Modifié par Eidolonn, 01 février 2010 - 06:39 .

[Abriael_CG]

Eidolonn wrote...
But yeah, Abriael, you're really being a bit abrasive just for effect.  It's really doing nothing for your credibility.  Let the trolls and flamers troll and flame.  I am pretty sure that you're typically above all of that.

Not really. I've seen too many games that ended up being rather average because the developers tried to make everyone and his mother happy, wasting their resources in every possible directions and making a game that is a little of everything and ultimately nothing really good. I'd rather Bioware games to avoid going down that route.

[Medhia Nox]

Abriael_CG -

Yes, I definately can.

- Fallout 3 I connected with the original character ((SPOILER)) - meaning the one who sacrifices himself to save the Capital Wasteland. After the change - I found it to be trite and pandering to "masses".

- Homeworld (old RTS): I found the journey to Haigara (their "homeworld") to be a compelling tale. The ending of the story was extremely well done - even drew a man tear.

- Dragon Age: I gave my life for the betterment of Ferelden. Good stuff - and I was pleased with the rewards of self-sacrifice.

And on, and on, and on -

----

But if a game is going to make a big deal out of romantic options - as the Mass Effect trilogy has - then I expect to be engaged.

The game almost tricks you into romantic options with the females - I couldn't even be Liara's friend without her trying to come on to me (and now, her stupid picture is in my room on the new Normandy). I hear the same is similar with Jack - some people are just stumbling into these options by trying to be friends.

I understand your argument hinges on downplaying (or ignoring) the relevance of romantic options in the game - but, they are there - and if they're going to play a role, I want to be engaged.

--

Example: There is a seen with Kaiden/Ashley. If I am a male - and Kaiden were my love interest - then the scene would have been even more involved. As it is - there was never an option - so it's just frienship and old war buddies.

Don't make it sound like I can't find developed RPGs from plenty of other companies. There's a lot out there - and if those great games are also going to add this element. Then yes, I would spend my money there.

Do you support things monetarily that you don't have great interest in?

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 01 février 2010 - 06:52 .

[Captain Jazz]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Eidolonn wrote...
But yeah, Abriael, you're really being a bit abrasive just for effect.  It's really doing nothing for your credibility.  Let the trolls and flamers troll and flame.  I am pretty sure that you're typically above all of that.

Not really. I've seen too many games that ended up being rather average because the developers tried to make everyone and his mother happy, wasting their resources in every possible directions and making a game that is a little of everything and ultimately nothing really good. I'd rather Bioware games to avoid going down that route.

Is being purposefully obtuse the best way to make your point apparent? You're just making yourself look like a trolling ******.

Even if the troll option actually does somehow shift opinions your way, they have the resources to make 3 options for male and female each, but making 2 straight and 1 gay option each will break the bank? Really? I don't buy it. Sure, it would probably be a better move to make 2 & 2, because there will be those who will whine about uneaven choices, but that's still not going to bring the walls down around their ears.

Modifié par Captain Jazz, 01 février 2010 - 06:56 .

[Abriael_CG]

Mass effect 2 doesn't make such a "big deal" out of romance. In the end romance in the game counts as, maybe 1% of the whole gameplay.

So, if you can enjoy games that don't include a gay romance option, you should enjoy ME2 no problems. Otherwise, if you just spite the game because you're envious of the fact the vast majority of the gaming population got their tastes catered for specifically, and your specific minority didn't, well, though luck. You might want to broaden your horizon a bit.

There are a TON of (less whiny) minorities that didn't get their very own Shaperd, and Bioware simply can't cater for them all.

Captain Jazz wrote...
Is being purposefully obtuse the best way to make your point apparent? You're just making yourself look like a trolling ******.
Even if the troll option actually does somehow shift opinions your way, they have the resources to make 3 options for male and female each, but making 2 straight and 1 gay option each will break the bank? Really? I don't buy it. Sure, it would probably be a better move to make 2 & 2, because there will be those who will whine about uneaven choices, but that's still not going to bring the walls down around their ears.

So basically (aside from the personal attacks, which are quite moot), you're saying that they should deprieve the vast majority of gamers of an option in order to give that option to a minority? 
That's exactly the problem I'm talking about. People screaming "who cares about what the majority likes, divert resources away from that to cater to me! me! me! me!".

That's how shallow games are born.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 01 février 2010 - 07:00 .

[Lightice_av]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Oh but i DO care. Being very familiar than resources in game development are finite (while someone here seems not to understand that), I'd much rather them spend all of their resources in the most popular options, in order for the game to be enjoyed at it's best by most people, instead of sprinkling developement resources on extremely secondary options to appease to every little whiny minority out there, with the result of having to cut corners on the most popular ones.
They cut enough corners already even without your help.

Feel free to explain the fact that they already included the gay Ashley and Kaidan options in the first game then, and cut them out in the last minute, presumably after noticing that the entire human main cast would have been bi. The files are still on the disk, and can be extracted, as you can see on YouTube. It most definately didn't destroy their budget for the rest of the game.

Behold the internet messiah

Must be so alien for you to care about something other than yourself.

Oooh, internet though guy too... charming. Who would want to intimidate you? I actually find your arguing for arguing sake quite humorous.

In other words, as you have made perfectly clear by now, you're just baiting people for the fun of it. I.e. trolling. Good that we have settled this now. Don't bother speaking to me again.

[LolaRuns]

So basically (aside from the personal attacks, which are quite moot), you're saying that they should deprieve the vast majority of gamers of an option in order to give that option to a minority?

Why deprive? Why not just make characters romancable by either male or female? Aka everybody loves Shep regardless what form he's in at the time.

[Ninja Mage]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Mass effect 2 doesn't make such a "big deal" out of romance. In the end romance in the game counts as, maybe 1% of the whole gameplay.

So, if you can enjoy games that don't include a gay romance option, you should enjoy ME2 no problems. Otherwise, if you just spite the game because you're envious of the fact the vast majority of the gaming population got their tastes catered for specifically, and your specific minority didn't, well, though luck. You might want to broaden your horizon a bit.

There are a TON of (less whiny) minorities that didn't get their very own Shaperd, and Bioware simply can't cater for them all.

Captain Jazz wrote...
Is being purposefully obtuse the best way to make your point apparent? You're just making yourself look like a trolling ******.
Even if the troll option actually does somehow shift opinions your way, they have the resources to make 3 options for male and female each, but making 2 straight and 1 gay option each will break the bank? Really? I don't buy it. Sure, it would probably be a better move to make 2 & 2, because there will be those who will whine about uneaven choices, but that's still not going to bring the walls down around their ears.

So basically (aside from the personal attacks, which are quite moot), you're saying that they should deprieve the vast majority of gamers of an option in order to give that option to a minority? 
That's exactly the problem I'm talking about. People screaming "who cares about what the majority likes, divert resources away from that to cater to me! me! me! me!".

That's how shallow games are born.

The only shallow thing in this forum is you. You would blatantly deprive others of having an option in a game where there are 6 straight romances and a lesbian romance with a secretary. And are still blaming it on resources, even though you aren't even on the development team? WOW, you are a troll. **** you

[Captain Jazz]

Abriael_CG wrote...
cater to me! me! me! me!".

... *holds up a mirror*

[sw33ts]

Why is this even a debate?



The game is an RPG. And I believe Bioware even calls it that. If simple modders can mod Morrigan to have a f/f or Allister to have a m/m relationship then I'm sure Bioware can make m/m relationships. I think it's funny people come in here saying things along the lines of bioware didn't have time or my favorite IT'S NOT YOUR CHOICE. It's bioware's. It was stated before that the reason Tali wasn't a romance option in the beginning was because she has chicken feet and they thought no one would want to romance chicken feet. As they can see now obviously the need was there so they made her an LI. Now that there is a need for m/m hopefully they'll make that so.



I highly doubt adding a m/m relationship, when there's been f/f relationships in the game, will break the game. It's not called pleasing everyone it's called evening the playing field. If Bioware didn't want to put up with the m/m relationship they shouldn't have put a f/f relationship in ME



If YOU don't want your Shepard to be gay then okay, but no reason to hinder someone elses chances of making their shepard their's even more.

[Abriael_CG]

Lightice_av wrote...
Feel free to explain the fact that they already included the gay Ashley and Kaidan options in the first game then, and cut them out in the last minute, presumably after noticing that the entire human main cast would have been bi. The files are still on the disk, and can be extracted, as you can see on YouTube. It most definately didn't destroy their budget for the rest of the game.

As a matter of fact, those partial files have never been voiced in any other language than english. It's pretty obvious that they have been cut from the game because the budget forced them to remove some options.
Or maybe you think they did as a slight to the internet gay community? lol.

Must be so alien for you to care about something other than yourself.

Just for the sake of showing off as the protector of X's rights? I have better ways to spend my energies.

LolaRuns wrote...
Why deprive? Why not just make characters romancable by either male or female? Aka everybody loves Shep regardless what form he's in at the time.

Because that means creating new lines of script, voicing them both for male and female sheperd, in all the languages the game has been voiced. This means spending resources, and voice acting isn't cheap.

Mind you, considering the abysmal quality of the italian dub, that was done at the very cheapest studo available in the country, resulting in a majorly lessened experience, I dare say that they were quite tight in budget, in that department.

Ninja Mage wrote...
The only shallow thing in this forum is you. You would blatantly deprive others of having an option in a game
where there are 6 straight romances and a lesbian romance with a secretary. And are still blaming it on resources, even though you aren't even on the development team? WOW, you are a troll. **** you

Gotta love people that lack any sort of argument that come in just to post shallow personal attacks. There's no need to be on the development team to know that development resources in ANY game are finite. Expecially games made by software houses owned by a parent publisher, I might add.

sw33ts wrote...
I highly doubt adding a m/m relationship,
when there's been f/f relationships in the game, will break the game.
It's not called pleasing everyone it's called evening the playing
field. If Bioware didn't want to put up with the m/m relationship they
shouldn't have put a f/f relationship in ME

Why should the field be "evened"? The audience isn't even. I'd dare say that people interested in gay romances in games aren't even near to 1/3 of the total.
Also, to "even the playing field" would mean making it even between everyone, not just between straight and gay. Why would gay people be so much important compared to any other minority to require "evening" that other minorities don't get?

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 01 février 2010 - 07:18 .

[Sirus0013]

Gays don't have rights... get used to it!

[Endurance_117]

As seen in the trailers, Shepard is a manly man. No gay person talks like him.

[Lightice_av]

Mind you, considering the abysmal quality of the italian dub, that was done at the very cheapest studo available in the country, resulting in a majorly lessened experience, I dare say that they were quite tight in budget, in that department.

Perhaps we should start whining against the Italian fanbase for stealing budget then?

Modifié par Lightice_av, 01 février 2010 - 07:18 .

[LolaRuns]

Because that means creating new lines of script, voicing them both for male and female sheperd, in all the languages the game has been voiced. This means spending resources, and voice acting isn't cheap.

How many lines would that be, 10 maybe per romance? Hardly a deal breaker during the production of the game. I'm sure that there are many other things that aren't necessarily that exciting to everybody that also get 10 lines.

And if ME (a) actually considered putting those kind of relationships in at one point (aka didn't consider them to be in violation of the storyline) and ( seems to be making decent amounts of money, why shouldn't people petition for "Well btw, next time you do it, why not keep it in?" Just like the fans of xeno romances did.

Why would gay people be so much important compared to any other minority to require "evening" that other minorities don't get?

Because it's comparatively easy. Romance options exist. Characters exist. Additional voice work would be minimal since romances don't really have that huge an effect on the story. If people were asking for them to write a complex coming out backstory or whatever, I would agree. Too much effort. Not worth it. But this? Comparatively minor effort (compared to let's say having to animate a wheelchair). 

Modifié par LolaRuns, 01 février 2010 - 07:25 .

[Abriael_CG]

Lightice_av wrote...
Perhaps we should start whining against the Italian fanbase for stealing budget then?

Given the abysmal quality of the italian voice acting, the vast majority of the fanbase would rather have the english voice acting, while is stuck with a sub-par product unless they import.

[Abriael_CG]

LolaRuns wrote...
How many lines would that be, 10 maybe per romance? Hardly a deal breaker during the production of the game. I'm sure that there are many other things that aren't necessarily that exciting to everybody that also get 10 lines.

10 lines? Considering that most languages (there isn't only english) are gender sensitive, most is not all of the romance lines for the bisexual character would have to be revoiced.

And if ME (a) actually considered putting those kind of relationships in at one point (aka didn't consider them to be in violation of the storyline) and ( seems to be making decent amounts of money, why shouldn't people petition for "Well btw, next time you do it, why not keep it in?"

Making decent amounts of money doesn't mean being able to splurge. Normally games that make a lot of money also have a big budget, and investors expect revenue from that budget.

[jselene]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Because that means creating new lines of script, voicing them both for male and female sheperd, in all the languages the game has been voiced. This means spending resources, and voice acting isn't cheap.

*sigh* Here.  Relink for convenience: 


French ME2.  Femshep's in the scene, but with maleshep voiceover.  The lines were recorded already, in multiple languages. 

Modifié par jselene, 01 février 2010 - 07:25 .