631 réponses à ce sujet

[Endurance_117]

Lightice_av wrote...

Eidolonn wrote...

It's a game.  The HAVE to limit choices because of storyline and resources, amongst other things.

Didn't prevent Dragon Age...Seriously, your argument has been made a hundred times. It's explained dry time and time again.

In Dragon Age the Main Character does not talk, takes up a LOT less space 

Modifié par Endurance_117, 01 février 2010 - 08:29 .

[LolaRuns]

You don't get it. So let me reiterate. DA:O is voiced only in english.

Errrrrr... no?

Besides I thought most language actually aren't gendered in a way you can hear when taking in second person (I love you, etc).

Modifié par LolaRuns, 01 février 2010 - 08:31 .

[Lightice_av]

Plenty? An handful of people screaming in a forum are quite negligible in the grand scheme of things.

We shall see, won't we?

Lol, excuse me? The fact that there was no M/M romance in ME1 but F/F was there caused a crapstorm.

Hardly. More like halfhearted wondering if there'd be some for the sequel. And then even that stopped, when people decided, after encouraging quotes from the devs that there indeed would be an option.

And it's exactly the reason why Bioware removed F/F as well. Good job to the whiners.

You are in the possession of mind-reading skills nowadays, or maybe you go drinking with the dev team every once in awhile? How enviable to possess all that inside knowledge without any connections...

In Dragon Age the Main Character does not talk, takes up a LOT less space

 

Hint: overlapping dialoge. Two DVDs. Do the math.

Modifié par Lightice_av, 01 février 2010 - 08:31 .

[Abriael_CG]

MassFrost wrote...
That about sums it up. People seem to think that Shepard is a character for them to shape any way they want to, but fail to realize that before we took control of him in Mass Effect he was an established character laid out by the developers and story writers the way they wanted him. If they don't want him to experience gay romance, that's their call, not ours. Anyone that really wants gay romance that badly (and frankly I find it a little sad, letting something so trivial ruin your gaming experience) is just as free to open their own gaming studio and develop their own homosexual fantasy sex simulator.. Sorry, Mass Effect just isn't it.

This.

[Yeled]

Eidolonn wrote...

How about this for an answer...  the main character is not gay and/or the NPC is not gay.

Right.  In your game you don't want them to be gay.  So they aren't.  Just like you don't want your Shepard to act like a renegade.

In another person's game they could choose otherwise.  I'm not sure why that's hard/costs significantly more/or hurts anything for anyone.

[Endurance_117]

MassFrost wrote...

That about sums it up. People seem to think that Shepard is a character for them to shape any way they want to, but fail to realize that before we took control of him in Mass Effect he was an established character laid out by the developers and story writers the way they wanted him. If they don't want him to experience gay romance, that's their call, not ours. Anyone that really wants gay romance that badly (and frankly I find it a little sad, letting something so trivial ruin your gaming experience) is just as free to open their own gaming studio and develop their own homosexual fantasy sex simulator.. Sorry, Mass Effect just isn't it.

sums it up

[Yeled]

MassFrost wrote...

Not to say I care either way, but wouldn't that just go against the whole argument that being gay isn't a choice?

No because we're not talking about biological/genetic or environmental factors at all.  We're talking about a choose your own adventure game.  Its essentially a question of storytelling in a game about choices. 

If a player would find the game more enjoyable if it included a romance option that appeals to them, and said option is not hard to implement (someone has a hack that lets you change the whole thing on a PC by simply changing one word of code), then I don't see why a company would not let you do it.

[Vamphuntr]

MassFrost wrote...

Eidolonn wrote...

Yeled wrote...

Honestly I'm not sure why Bioware limits your choices at all. If they make a character romancable, why not let anyone romance them regardless of gender?

How about this for an answer...  the main character is not gay and/or the NPC is not gay.

Novel concept.

It's a game.  The HAVE to limit choices because of storyline and resources, amongst other things.  Maybe the game creators simply did not want to put male gay characters in the game.  It is their choice, after all.  If you don't like it, don't buy it or don't play it or mod it yourself to include it.

That about sums it up. People seem to think that Shepard is a character for them to shape any way they want to, but fail to realize that before we took control of him in Mass Effect he was an established character laid out by the developers and story writers the way they wanted him. If they don't want him to experience gay romance, that's their call, not ours. Anyone that really wants gay romance that badly (and frankly I find it a little sad, letting something so trivial ruin your gaming experience) is just as free to open their own gaming studio and develop their own homosexual fantasy sex simulator.. Sorry, Mass Effect just isn't it.

Too bad in ME1 you female Shepard could be gay. Sure Asari are asexual but they have a female appearance. They have breast, feminine voice and body. Use ''she'' to talk to each others. If you are a women and are attracted by something that looks female you are lesbian. Same scenario for guys.

[Abriael_CG]

Lightice_av wrote...
We shall see, won't we?

Oh yes, you sure will.

Hardly. More like halfhearted wondering if there'd be some for the sequel. And then even that stopped, when people decided, after encouraging quotes from the devs that there indeed would be an option.

I hope the couch under the rock was confy, because you definitely spent the last three years there. This little whine-thread is nothing compared to then.

You are in the possession of mind-reading skills nowadays, or maybe you go drinking with the dev team every once in awhile? How enviable to possess all that inside knowledge without any connections...

All it takes is logic. Or you think they excluded it as an intentional slight to the gay community? 

[Yeled]

MassFrost wrote...

That about sums it up. People seem to think that Shepard is a character for them to shape any way they want to, but fail to realize that before we took control of him in Mass Effect he was an established character laid out by the developers and story writers the way they wanted him. If they don't want him to experience gay romance, that's their call, not ours.

But they didn't choose the character's gender?   I'm sorry but that really doesn't follow.

[Endurance_117]

Vamphuntr wrote...

Too bad in ME1 you female Shepard could be gay. Sure Asari are asexual

Well what do we have here..

[Vamphuntr]

Endurance_117 wrote...

Vamphuntr wrote...

Too bad in ME1 you female Shepard could be gay. Sure Asari are asexual

Well what do we have here..

You have to quote the whole text you know. Otherwise it's taking thing out of it's context. This is a basic fact in elementary reading comprehension.

[Lightice_av]

I hope the couch under the rock was confy, because you definitely spent the last three years there. This little whine-thread is nothing compared to then.

Not on the old forums certainly. And there's been close to ten of these "whine-threads" already in this short time, largely locked because they contained so much flaming.

All it takes is logic. Or you think they excluded it as an intentional slight to the gay community?

Er, no? Do you think that they did it to slight their forumgoers? Tali and Garrus-fans disagree most heartily, and they whined a lot louder. The most likely probability is that due to the low intensity of forum activity compared to most other matters, there wouldn't be demand for the option.

[halO bendeR]

Yeled wrote...
I wonder if EA had any role to play in this. If I remember correctly there has been a gay option in every bioware game since KOTOR. Then EA buys the company and suddenly that option is gone. That strikes me as more than a coincidence.

Dragon Age was released under EA and that had bi-sexual options in it. Though I guess you could make the argument that DA:O is more of a niche game than Mass Effect 2 -- EA might of felt it was less of a risk including it in that game.

I really don't know why m/m f/f romances weren't included this time around given Bioware's track record.  As I understand it there was dialogue recorded for said options so I imagine PC players will have access to homosexual romances via mods at some point.

While I'm personally not interested in the option, I do feel like the option should be there for those who are.

[Wittand25]

Endurance_117 wrote...

MassFrost wrote...

That about sums it up. People seem to think that Shepard is a character for them to shape any way they want to, but fail to realize that before we took control of him in Mass Effect he was an established character laid out by the developers and story writers the way they wanted him. If they don't want him to experience gay romance, that's their call, not ours. Anyone that really wants gay romance that badly (and frankly I find it a little sad, letting something so trivial ruin your gaming experience) is just as free to open their own gaming studio and develop their own homosexual fantasy sex simulator.. Sorry, Mass Effect just isn't it.

sums it up

The only problem here is SHEPARD DOES NOT HAVE A PAST DECIDED BY THE DEVELOPER. Bioware has never decided a past for Shepard other than beeing a human military member at the start of ME1 every thing else about him/her can be decided by the player..

[Abriael_CG]

LolaRuns wrote...
Errrrrr... no?

Besides I thought most language actually aren't gendered in a way you can hear when taking in second person (I love you, etc).

My bad. DA:O is voiced in german and french but not in the usual "console standard" spanish and italian (thank goodness).

Though, this still doesn't change the fact that you heard the alistair mod in english. Try hearing it in french and you'll have quite some laughs at how wacko it will probably sound.

Heavily gender-sensitive languages like Italian or French have basically every word in a male and female form. It's not just a matter of "him" or "her". Almost every noun and adjective changes when it refers to a male or a female.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 01 février 2010 - 08:43 .

[MassFrost]

Yeled wrote...

MassFrost wrote...

That about sums it up. People seem to think that Shepard is a character for them to shape any way they want to, but fail to realize that before we took control of him in Mass Effect he was an established character laid out by the developers and story writers the way they wanted him. If they don't want him to experience gay romance, that's their call, not ours.

But they didn't choose the character's gender?   I'm sorry but that really doesn't follow.

Again, that's their choice to give us a choice. Shepard isn't a character that belongs to any of us, he/she belongs to BioWare. What they choose to do with that character is completely up to them, and it's clear that a homosexual romance option simply isn't on their list of priorities.

Truth be told, I was initially in support of the gay community getting a choice in romance options, but after viewing thread after thread on the topic for the last couple of weeks I hope they don't give you the option. Simply for the fact that if they do it'll show all you have to do is stir up a small group of people and get them to whine incessantly to get whatever you want.

[Lightice_av]

Heavily gender-sensitive languages like Italian or French have basically every word in a male and female form. It's not just a matter of "him" or "her". Almost every word noun and adjective changes when it refers to a male or a female.

Which explains why there is only male Commander Shepard and it will never be an option to play a woman. Oh, wait...

[MassFrost]

Wittand25 wrote...

Endurance_117 wrote...

MassFrost wrote...

That about sums it up. People seem to think that Shepard is a character for them to shape any way they want to, but fail to realize that before we took control of him in Mass Effect he was an established character laid out by the developers and story writers the way they wanted him. If they don't want him to experience gay romance, that's their call, not ours. Anyone that really wants gay romance that badly (and frankly I find it a little sad, letting something so trivial ruin your gaming experience) is just as free to open their own gaming studio and develop their own homosexual fantasy sex simulator.. Sorry, Mass Effect just isn't it.

sums it up

The only problem here is SHEPARD DOES NOT HAVE A PAST DECIDED BY THE DEVELOPER. Bioware has never decided a past for Shepard other than beeing a human military member at the start of ME1 every thing else about him/her can be decided by the player..

Did I say past? I was referring to the fact that the direction he/she goes from the beginning of the game onward is laid out by them, not by us. Any options we have along that path are simply ones that the developers have decided to give us.

Oh, and technically he/she does have a past decided by the developers, otherwise I could say that I wanted my Shepard to have grown up being raised by monkeys on Eden Prime. It's more an illusion of choice than anything else.

[Yeled]

halO bendeR wrote...

Dragon Age was released under EA and that had bi-sexual options in it. Though I guess you could make the argument that DA:O is more of a niche game than Mass Effect 2 -- EA might of felt it was less of a risk including it in that game.

DA:O was in development for years before EA bought Bioware.  Mass Effect 2 was made much more quickly because they already had the skeleton of the system.  ME1 released right after EA bought Bioware. 

That's my theory, anyway.

While I'm personally not interested in the option, I do feel like the option should be there for those who are.

Agreed.

[Abriael_CG]

Lightice_av wrote...
Not on the old forums certainly. And there's been close to ten of these "whine-threads" already in this short time, largely locked because they contained so much flaming.

Made almost entirely by the same people, I'd add. You included.

Er, no? Do you think that they did it to slight their forumgoers? Tali and Garrus-fans disagree most heartily, and they whined a lot louder. The most likely probability is that due to the low intensity of forum activity compared to most other matters, there wouldn't be demand for the option.

The problem is that no one really cares about the controversy of xenoromance. It's just a matter of enjoyment and has zero controversial aspects in it. The matter of "gay rights" is controversial, and the whole whinefest reached the mainstream media (while you heard nothing on the mainstream media about the fact you couldn't romance garrus or Tali, for obvious reasons).
Hence, Bioware probably thought it safer to steer clear of the controversy this time. Which I'd name a good call.

Lightice_av wrote...
Which explains why there is only male Commander Shepard and it will never be an option to play a woman. Oh, wait...

The fact that they spent the resources to voice the non-romantic part of the script for both genders (and people that want to play female aren't a small minority as those that want to play gay), doesn't automatically imply that they should spend MORE resources to voice the romantic parts of the scripts for both genders as well.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 01 février 2010 - 08:48 .

[LolaRuns]

Heavily gender-sensitive languages like Italian or French have basically every word in a male and female form. It's not just a matter of "him" or "her". Almost every noun and adjective changes when it refers to a male or a female.

Not in second person. At least not in either French or German. I love you, I missed you, I've been thinking about you, how are you, your eyes are beautiful, I didn't know what to do with my life till I met you, all that second person blabla. It's only a problem when a character talks about his love for X to a third person. "I love her, I'm involved with her". But how often does that really happen in ME?

Take for example the Ashley romance scene:

Almost the entire dialog is second person or first person. Meaning her lines would be the same (in German or French) if said to a man or a woman.

Modifié par LolaRuns, 01 février 2010 - 08:52 .

[Abriael_CG]

LolaRuns wrote...
Not in second person. At least not in either French or German. I love you, I missed you, I've been thinking about you, how are you. I didn't know what to do with my life till I met you, all that second person blabla. It's only a problem when a character talks about his love for X to a third person. "I love her, I'm involved with her". But how often does that really happen in ME?

You're keeping it limited to very simple sentences, but characters in ME2 don't exactly express themselves with oneliners.

[Lightice_av]

Made almost entirely by the same people, I'd add. You included.

I've only been a participant in a couple. You, among a few others, have made this personal for me. Without your types, I might have already left. As it is, I might see this to the end. Small, determined groups have done wonders in the past...

Hence, Bioware probably thought it safer to steer clear of the controversy this time. Which I'd name a good call.

*looks at Kelly's striptease*

Nope, no controversy there. Good call, Bioware.

Seriously man, think before you post.

[Yeled]

MassFrost wrote...

Again, that's their choice to give us a choice. Shepard isn't a character that belongs to any of us, he/she belongs to BioWare. What they choose to do with that character is completely up to them, and it's clear that a homosexual romance option simply isn't on their list of priorities.

Truth be told, I was initially in support of the gay community getting a choice in romance options, but after viewing thread after thread on the topic for the last couple of weeks I hope they don't give you the option. Simply for the fact that if they do it'll show all you have to do is stir up a small group of people and get them to whine incessantly to get whatever you want.

You are right.  It is their choice.  I'm just not sure why they chose to limit this.  While I myself am not gay, I can't see any reason to choose not to allow players who are gay have several options (not even just one...I think they should open up all the romances) to have a romance with a same sex NPC.  I even support immature straight male players who would like to have their Shepard be involved in "hot" girl-girl action.  Its no skin off my nose, and if it makes their customers happy then go for it.

I'm still looking at EA suspiciously as the cause of all this limiting choices stuff.