631 réponses à ce sujet

[Abriael_CG]

Lightice_av wrote...

I've only been a participant in a couple. You, among a few others, have made this personal for me. Without your types, I might have already left. As it is, I might see this to the end. Small, determined groups have done wonders in the past...

Basically you just admitted that you're here just for the sake of arguing with people you don't like. Good call.

*looks at Kelly's striptease*
Nope, no controversy there. Good call, Bioware.
Seriously man, think before you post.

Oh yeah., a striptease is SO extremely controversial (and actually it's a dance wearing a snug, yet entirely covering outfit, she does not strip at all). Did you see an article about it somewhere yet? :innocent:

Yeled wrote...
I'm still looking at EA suspiciously as the cause of all this limiting choices stuff.

After Dante's Inferno I seriously doubt EA puts any kind of limits, seriously.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 01 février 2010 - 08:56 .

[Wittand25]

MassFrost wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

Endurance_117 wrote...

MassFrost wrote...

That about sums it up. People seem to think that Shepard is a character for them to shape any way they want to, but fail to realize that before we took control of him in Mass Effect he was an established character laid out by the developers and story writers the way they wanted him. If they don't want him to experience gay romance, that's their call, not ours. Anyone that really wants gay romance that badly (and frankly I find it a little sad, letting something so trivial ruin your gaming experience) is just as free to open their own gaming studio and develop their own homosexual fantasy sex simulator.. Sorry, Mass Effect just isn't it.

sums it up

The only problem here is SHEPARD DOES NOT HAVE A PAST DECIDED BY THE DEVELOPER. Bioware has never decided a past for Shepard other than beeing a human military member at the start of ME1 every thing else about him/her can be decided by the player..

Did I say past? I was referring to the fact that the direction he/she goes from the beginning of the game onward is laid out by them, not by us. Any options we have along that path are simply ones that the developers have decided to give us.

Oh, and technically he/she does have a past decided by the developers, otherwise I could say that I wanted my Shepard to have grown up being raised by monkeys on Eden Prime. It's more an illusion of choice than anything else.

Ofcourse we players have only the options the developers give us. The sole point of this thread is to show that we are not satisfied with the options presented by them regarding romance right now.
And he/she does not have a past the player has the chance to pick one of nine different past for Shepard at the start of ME1.

[Twizz089]

 


But they didn't choose the character's gender?   I'm sorry but that really doesn't follow.

Please dont feed the troll

Modifié par Twizz089, 01 février 2010 - 08:57 .

[JackDresden]

While I wouldn't mind at all if they wanted to put a gay romance option in I think it plain silly to think that every story based RPG that comes out from now on has to have that option. It's up to the writers to decide if they want to include such a thing.

[Lightice_av]

Basically you just admitted that you're here just for the sake of arguing with people you don't like. Good call.

Hardly. I'd prefer to see this done without any arguments. Lets just say that you've strengthened my resolve to support smart people with reasonable requests, because they have the likes of you to go against.

Oh yeah., a striptease is SO extremely controversial (and actually it's a dance, she does not strip). Did you see an article about it somewhere yet?

Seeing how it's an F/F option, no more or less controversial than any other F/F or M/M option. None of the romances are exactly graphic, and I have no issue with that whatsoever.

[Abriael_CG]

JackDresden wrote...

While I wouldn't mind at all if they wanted to put a gay romance option in I think it plain silly to think that every story based RPG that comes out from now on has to have that option. It's up to the writers to decide if they want to include such a thing.

This is exactly my standpoint. People take it for granted, like it wasn't anymore a developer's right to decide against it.
Many also make it a matter of "gay rights" which is entirely silly and totally out of whack.

[halO bendeR]

MassFrost wrote...

Truth be told, I was initially in support of the gay community getting a choice in romance options, but after viewing thread after thread on the topic for the last couple of weeks I hope they don't give you the option. Simply for the fact that if they do it'll show all you have to do is stir up a small group of people and get them to whine incessantly to get whatever you want.

Wow, that sounds pretty vindictive of you if true.
I think there's a difference between the LGBT community and say, Talimancers in terms of getting what they want. I think it's a legitimate complaint that gay and lesbians aren't represented in the game espesially given Bioware's past history.

[Lightice_av]

Many also make it a matter of "gay rights" which is entirely silly and totally out of whack.

Why are you repeating that for the umpteenth time after you've been already told by everybody and their dog it's not about "gay rights".

[LolaRuns]

You're keeping it limited to very simple sentences, but characters in ME2 don't exactly express themselves with oneliners.

I linked one of the hookup scenes on youtube. The entire thing can be mostly divided into 3 different things:

- Addressing third person: wouldn't change whether one talks to a man or a woman
- Talking first person about own experiences (I'm not a word person, I've been spending my whole life fighting for what I want) : wouldn't change whether one talks to a man or a woman
- Talking about outside abstract things (Death closes all) : wouldn't change whether one talks to a man or a woman

(see the female version of the scene to see how little of the dialogue is changed.  )

Sure there are things that would have to be changed ("I see a strong passionate woman with a great a**" rather than "I see a strong passionate man with a great a**"), but this are the overwhelming minority compared to all other sentences.

In truth the romances in ME are not that complex that they affect *a ton* of scenes outside of direct dialog scenes.


It doesn't mean that ME needs to have a same sex hookup options or that they don't have the artistic license not to include them. I just find the moaning about how much would have to be changed to make it happen really quite silly. It's. Not. That. Much. Of. A. Difference.

Modifié par LolaRuns, 01 février 2010 - 09:01 .

[sw33ts]

Abriael_CG wrote...

You don't get it. So let me reiterate. DA:O is voiced only in english. English is mostly NOT a gender-sensitive language, so the same line sounds exactly the same wheter you tell it to a male or a female (while there are still nuances that SHOULD be changed to make a quality product, and in fact the Alistair mod is an amatorial product that would never be accepted on a professional level). ALL the other languages Mass effect 2 is voiced on (actually I'm not sure about German), are gender sensitive, hence you'd have to voice all the lines twice. The "Shepard" or "commander" trick solves the problem just partially, and just in english.

Lol.  I speak Spanish and English.  I also understand how French, and
Italian works. With the use of say I love shepard.  It's still gonna
say "Yo quiero Shepard" or if they want to be cheesy "Me amo Shepard." 
And it would be the same.  Words like Commander are still spelled one
way whether female or male.   It's Comandante for both male and female
in spanish and italian.  I dont' remember the word for commander in French but I'm pretty sure it's also just one word.  When you conguate a verb in spanish/italian it's based on who's saying it not the gender of the person you're saying it to.  A group of all females or a group of all males running is still coguated the same if that makes sense.  If anything they would have to just have actors say certain things 2 times like when Miranda is like She/he saved the galaxy in the beginning, but the actresses already have to do that.  Even in english when you're speaking to someone you're not constantly saying their gender.  You just speak to them.  So I highly doubt that'd be an issue.

Abriael_CG wrote...
Because F/F is quite a lot more popular, in general, between gamers
than an M/M option. So they probably assumed it was warranted. The fact
that they excluded it in ME2 should probably tell you the following:

They
don't have or are not willing to spend the resources to make BOTH a
M/M and a F/F option, because they feel that either doesn't fit their
vision or their budget. In Mass Effect 1 they tentatively added a F/F
option, but they saw that it brought them more grief and harm than gain
(with all the "we want M/M too! You anti gay bastards!" crap) , so they
just cut down both options. Good job to the ones that protested, I'd
say. They managed to have both options removed with threads like this.

They cut down on both options?  Did they?  It's hard to cut down on a m/m relationship when there wasnt' one to begin with. And last I checked you can still romance a female.  Maybe it's more like a fling but at least it's there.    Is it wrong for m/m people to "protest," although I don't know if that's such a great word for that, for something you don't agree with?  And as I've said countlessly...to make a m/m wouldn't be that hard.  And it brought them more grief because of people like Fox not fans.  At least that's how I remembered it.

Abriael_CG wrote...
If they had to be fair, they should include every minority you could
think of. What about transgenders? What about polyamorous? What makes
gay males more important then them? 
Computer RPGs CANNOT include ALL options. That's what pen and paper is for.

O_o Now I feel you're grasping for straws.  As for polyamorous I belive it's possible as for transgenders I believe if they spoke up (which i've yet to hear) then okay.  If you can have f/f then u should be able to have m/m or dont' touch same sex romances at all.  And anyways Bioware has touched on samesex relationships before with dragon age and jade empire so why stop now?  Because he's in space and obviously there's no gay men in space?  I unno a HUGE ship flying around a vast black hole sounds pretty gay to me.

xD

[Abriael_CG]

Lightice_av wrote...
Hardly. I'd prefer to see this done without any arguments. Lets just say that you've strengthened my resolve to support smart people with reasonable requests, because they have the likes of you to go against.

LOL. You're seriously hilarious. If they have reasonable arguments, they don't need you to come play their attorney.
You just like to feel like the "hero" that protects the "weak" (like people aren't able to defend themselves in a forum), but as a matter of fact, you're just arguing for argument's sake.

Seeing how it's an F/F option, no more or less controversial than any other F/F or M/M option. None of the romances are exactly graphic, and I have no issue with that whatsoever.

Again, have you seen any article anywhere on the press about it?
Evidently no one considers it controversial, probably just because it isn't.

[MassFrost]

halO bendeR wrote...

MassFrost wrote...

Truth be told, I was initially in support of the gay community getting a choice in romance options, but after viewing thread after thread on the topic for the last couple of weeks I hope they don't give you the option. Simply for the fact that if they do it'll show all you have to do is stir up a small group of people and get them to whine incessantly to get whatever you want.

Wow, that sounds pretty vindictive of you if true.
I think there's a difference between the LGBT community and say, Talimancers in terms of getting what they want. I think it's a legitimate complaint that gay and lesbians aren't represented in the game espesially given Bioware's past history.

Yep, it's entirely true. And no, there's no difference whatsoever, as this is a video game. The developers can do whatever they wish and represent whomever they choose, I think it's time people started accepting that. It almost seems as though people are feeling offended over this, as if it's an attack of the gay community or something. I'm all for gay rights, but whining and complaining over their exclusion in a video game is just pathetic to me.

[Eidolonn]

Yeled wrote...

Eidolonn wrote...

How about this for an answer...  the main character is not gay and/or the NPC is not gay.

Right.  In your game you don't want them to be gay.  So they aren't.  Just like you don't want your Shepard to act like a renegade.

In another person's game they could choose otherwise.  I'm not sure why that's hard/costs significantly more/or hurts anything for anyone.

No, in BIOWARE'S game. Not my game.  Not your game.  I could not care less either way.

[newcomplex]

Simply put, gay people are no more or less special then any other sexual deviancy. The Bioware writers chose not to incorporate a gay character into your mass effect crew. That is their decision. Too bad if your specific orientation is not catered to, it's biowares game.

You can still decide your sheps gay, theirs nothing in the game that is contrary to that point.   Their just happens to be nobody you ca be gay with.  

Get off your high horse.   Gay people are normal people who deviate sexually from the rest of the population.    That is literally the epitomy of gay rights, to make sure you folk are treated exactly the same.    Their are so many other sexual deviancies (many which are less socially accepted then gays, not talking about illegal and creepy stuff like pedophilia, stuff like transexuality and asexuality) and other issues (for instance, the way shepherds facial customziation looks like, its impossible to create a type E facial structure, which is tradionitionally found in latino heritage) that ME does not cater to.   It isn't the games job to cater to it either.   Can you not enjoy movies unless the protoganist is in a gay relationship?   

And in regard to talimancers, the ton set by those posts are quite different from the tone in these.   These threads usually end up "demanding" a gay romance, while garrus threads are just fangirls going plzplzplzplpzlplz.     

Modifié par newcomplex, 01 février 2010 - 09:11 .

[sw33ts]

MassFrost wrote...

halO bendeR wrote...

MassFrost wrote...

Truth be told, I was initially in support of the gay community getting a choice in romance options, but after viewing thread after thread on the topic for the last couple of weeks I hope they don't give you the option. Simply for the fact that if they do it'll show all you have to do is stir up a small group of people and get them to whine incessantly to get whatever you want.

Wow, that sounds pretty vindictive of you if true.
I think there's a difference between the LGBT community and say, Talimancers in terms of getting what they want. I think it's a legitimate complaint that gay and lesbians aren't represented in the game espesially given Bioware's past history.

Yep, it's entirely true. And no, there's no difference whatsoever, as this is a video game. The developers can do whatever they wish and represent whomever they choose, I think it's time people started accepting that. It almost seems as though people are feeling offended over this, as if it's an attack of the gay community or something. I'm all for gay rights, but whining and complaining over their exclusion in a video game is just pathetic to me.

Lol how is "whining" for say Tali/Garrus any different then "whining" for m/m.  At least the former is atainable in real life.

[Lightice_av]

If they have reasonable arguments, they don't need you to come play their attorney.

You've never experienced standing up to anyone, have you? I like that people are willing to act for what they want instead of just sitting passively waiting that someone would notice them and carter to them without request. Thus, I want to help them. It has nothing to do with "protection".

Again, have you seen any article anywhere on the press about it?

Evidently no one considers it controversial, probably just because it isn't.

Exactly. It isn't controversial. Not any more. How many magazines published shock-articles about Dragon Age? I thought so. Time has passed that controversy. That's the point; homosexuality in video games is no longer a matter of shock to most people.

[Eidolonn]

JackDresden wrote...

While I wouldn't mind at all if they wanted to put a gay romance option in I think it plain silly to think that every story based RPG that comes out from now on has to have that option. It's up to the writers to decide if they want to include such a thing.

LOL.  Come on now, Jack.  Why initiate basic common sense into this argument??

FYI, that means I agree with Jack for those that do not comprehend sarcasm.

[MassFrost]

sw33ts wrote...

MassFrost wrote...

halO bendeR wrote...

MassFrost wrote...

Truth be told, I was initially in support of the gay community getting a choice in romance options, but after viewing thread after thread on the topic for the last couple of weeks I hope they don't give you the option. Simply for the fact that if they do it'll show all you have to do is stir up a small group of people and get them to whine incessantly to get whatever you want.

Wow, that sounds pretty vindictive of you if true.
I think there's a difference between the LGBT community and say, Talimancers in terms of getting what they want. I think it's a legitimate complaint that gay and lesbians aren't represented in the game espesially given Bioware's past history.

Yep, it's entirely true. And no, there's no difference whatsoever, as this is a video game. The developers can do whatever they wish and represent whomever they choose, I think it's time people started accepting that. It almost seems as though people are feeling offended over this, as if it's an attack of the gay community or something. I'm all for gay rights, but whining and complaining over their exclusion in a video game is just pathetic to me.

Lol how is "whining" for say Tali/Garrus any different then "whining" for m/m.  At least the former is atainable in real life.

Where did I say it was any different? They're just as much to blame for their incessant whining as are the people whining for gay romance in the game. Oh, and it's the latter, unless you've somehow found a way to have sexual relations with extraterrestrials in real life.

Modifié par MassFrost, 01 février 2010 - 09:08 .

[Lightice_av]

Where did I say it was any different? They're just as much to blame for their incessant whining as are the people whining for gay romance in the game.

They set the precedence: squeaky wheel gets the grease. You are by no means forced to visit these threads. I never visited the Garrus-threads, myself.

[dirtyindiandude]

HEY GUYS I DEPLETED URANUS BY PROBING IT!!!!!!

[MassFrost]

Lightice_av wrote...

Where did I say it was any different? They're just as much to blame for their incessant whining as are the people whining for gay romance in the game.

They set the precedence: squeaky wheel gets the grease. You are by no means forced to visit these threads. I never visited the Garrus-threads, myself.

So that means you have to bring yourself down to their level?

[sw33ts]

MassFrost wrote...

sw33ts wrote...

MassFrost wrote...

halO bendeR wrote...

MassFrost wrote...

Truth be told, I was initially in support of the gay community getting a choice in romance options, but after viewing thread after thread on the topic for the last couple of weeks I hope they don't give you the option. Simply for the fact that if they do it'll show all you have to do is stir up a small group of people and get them to whine incessantly to get whatever you want.

Wow, that sounds pretty vindictive of you if true.
I think there's a difference between the LGBT community and say, Talimancers in terms of getting what they want. I think it's a legitimate complaint that gay and lesbians aren't represented in the game espesially given Bioware's past history.

Yep, it's entirely true. And no, there's no difference whatsoever, as this is a video game. The developers can do whatever they wish and represent whomever they choose, I think it's time people started accepting that. It almost seems as though people are feeling offended over this, as if it's an attack of the gay community or something. I'm all for gay rights, but whining and complaining over their exclusion in a video game is just pathetic to me.

Lol how is "whining" for say Tali/Garrus any different then "whining" for m/m.  At least the former is atainable in real life.

Where did I say it was any different? They're just as much to blame for their incessant whining as are the people whining for gay romance in the game.

Lol, so as paying customers of a game we're not allowed to "whine" for something you want or don't agree with?  Is that what you're saying?  And I don't see anyone whining I see people putting up perfectly good reasons as to why m/m relationships should be in the game.

Lol at my typo why yes.  Yes I have found a way to sleep with a Quarian.

Modifié par sw33ts, 01 février 2010 - 09:12 .

[LolaRuns]

The Bioware writers chose not to incorporate a gay character into your mass effect crew.

I know, they instead decided to pander to xeno-fans. So, what's keeping fans of m/m or f/f to petition and try to make themselves seem as loud/big as fans of xeno/spacehamsters/whatever. Not to mention that the clips of additional f/f or m/m in ME1 seem to point towards them having chosen to include "that deviancy" at once point and then chose to take it out again. So why shouldn't people try to petition for them to not make that choice again the next time it comes around?



IMO I think ME does quite fine without m/m. I think the series is established to some extent already and it would be a bit odd to now include it in ME3. However, I tend to subscribe to a storyline vision POV. People can or can not share it depending on their preferences (we can't really look into the heads of the creators, can we) respectively, not even the creators might share my POV of things. That said, if they had originally envisioned m/m or f/f versions and removed them out of fear for backlash that seems pretty chicken to me. Sounds a lot like selling out in fact.

[Abriael_CG]

Lightice_av wrote...
Why are you repeating that for the
umpteenth time after you've been already told by everybody and their
dog it's not about "gay rights".

yet people continue to drool about "making it even" and similar arguments, that sounds pretty political.

sw33ts wrote... Even in english when you're speaking to someone you're not constantly saying their gender.  You just speak to them.  So I highly doubt that'd be an issue.

It's much more complicated than that. Latin languages have nouances that don't exist in english. Also, while the "shepard" and "captain" trick lessens the issues, it doesn't cancel it. It's that simple.
if it wasn't included, it's quite obvious that the issue exist, or again, you think Bioware just decided not to inlcude the option because they hate Gay people?

Abriael_CG wrote...
They cut down on both options?  Did they?  It's hard to cut down on a m/m relationship when there wasnt' one to begin with. And last I checked you can still romance a female.  Maybe it's more like a fling but at least it's there.    Is it wrong for m/m people to "protest," although I don't know if that's such a great word for that, for something you don't agree with?  And as I've said countlessly...to make a m/m wouldn't be that hard.  And it brought them more grief because of people like Fox not fans.  At least that's how I remembered it.

yes, it's wrong for them to endlessly whine on this. As a matter of fact, gaming shouldn't need to revolve about anyone's sexual preference. Sometimes you get the option you like, sometimes you don't. To demand it equals to setting a precedent that states that every game developer should bend over twice in their writing to represent the gay minority. And if game developers do it, then should also the other media.
There are enough badly written gay "token characters" to make the minority happy out there. We don't really need more.

O_o Now I feel you're grasping for straws.  As for polyamorous I belive it's possible as for transgenders I believe if they spoke up (which i've yet to hear) then okay.  If you can have f/f then u should be able to have m/m or dont' touch same sex romances at all.  And anyways Bioware has touched on samesex relationships before with dragon age and jade empire so why stop now?  Because he's in space and obviously there's no gay men in space?  I unno a HUGE ship flying around a vast black hole sounds pretty gay to me.xD

Polyamorous is not possible. You can't romance two girls at the same time. You can have sex with one (without involvment) and then romance one of the other two (the other one won't accept it), but that's all.

The fact that Bioware touched same sex relationships shouldn't mean that such a feature should be taken for granted in all the game they develop from here to bankrupcy. You should be happy that they sometimes do, instead of demanding more at every turn.