631 réponses à ce sujet

[AltitudeNYC]

Kozlovskiy wrote...

Where is an option for us gaymers to have a gay shepard?

There are a lot of cute hunks in the game, especially joker! I am a little disappointed because the developers didn't cater to the homosexual community.

I wish I could say that I feel your pain. . . but I really, REALLY don't.

My biggest worry was the opposite of yours. After playing Dragon Age and seeing that trying to become best friends with another guy somehow constitued sexual interest in more than one case, I was put off. It actually changed the way I was playing the game. Where as I would like to know as much as I could about everybody usually, I found myself reading questions carefully and avoiding things that may pan out in an "unintended way". That's not fun gaming, that's scary gaming.

Modifié par AltitudeNYC, 31 janvier 2010 - 08:59 .

[Homeless Cheese]

Like Bioware is gonna take the time to make gay options when maybe 1% of people who play this are gay. It would just be stupid and a waste of time.

[Lightice_av]

Since when having homosexual characters in a game is a right?

Since the game was advertised as your personal story where you can craft Commander Shepard into the person of your liking. Leaving out one major option is detrimental to this goal.

Like
Bioware is gonna take the time to make gay options when maybe 1% of
people who play this are gay. It would just be stupid and a waste of
time.

Even 1% represents millions of dollars in a game of this magnitude, and you're forgetting the gamers who like to play a character of the opposite sex who also want to have a romance path that appeals to them. 10% would be a more realistic assessment, and it could easily be higher.

After playing Dragon Age and seeing that trying to become best friends
with another guy somehow constitued sexual interest in more than one
case, I was put off.

Heh, really? There's exactly one guy in the entire game who is a romance option to male characters, and he's not beating around the bush. To not notice what the conversation options entail, you must either be blind or unwilling to actually read what the options say.

Seriously people, options are options. You're not forced to take them if they're not for your liking. I never pick the gay sex option, but I still want that people who do to have it.

Modifié par Lightice_av, 31 janvier 2010 - 09:16 .

[Abriael_CG]

Lightice_av wrote...
Since the game was advertised as your personal story where you can craft Commander Shepard into the person of your liking. Leaving out one major option is detrimental to this goal.

"major" option?

And since when sexual preference is a major part of one's personality?
You CAN chose the personality of your shepard, not being able to make him gay doesn't change or lessen that.

The more I see people demanding gay characters in games like it was part of  "gay rights", the more I have to giggle. Find a boyfriend/girlfriend in real life, instead of demanding developers to tailor a game and it's characters around your sexual preferences.

[Lightice_av]

And since when sexual preference is a major part of one's personality?

You CAN chose the personality of your shepard, not being able to make him gay doesn't change or lessen that.

One's sexual preferences are a quite central part of their personality. That's the whole reason why the romance option exists at all in Mass Effect. I wouldn't cry if it wasn't there, but if you want to implement an option like that, then you better do it well, and in a way that appeals all the demographics. It adds depth to the character's personal story, and as it is, certain demographics are left without thatr depth.



It's hardly much to ask - a couple of per cents of the full game experience, but it would mean a lot to many people. People have started flamefests over much smaller issues, and so far the gay community on this forum has been for the most part very polite and intelligent about the matter, while the naysayers have been for the most part flamers with the maturity of a 13-year old.

[John Locke N7]

i wish tere where gay shepard options, just to stick it in the eyes of those prejudice idoits who acualy opress gays with laws. its so wrong.

[Killian Kalthorne]

olgaroni wrote...

It's difficult to discuss this topic with Americans. There is always so much overreaction and the arguments against a gay option are so ridiculous. Honestly the story of ME2 is not very innovative. What really makes the game interesting are the members of the squad. The romances are an import means to link the player to the game.

This American only cares about story integrity.  Romances, gay, straight, or whatver, should not be placed in the game unless it drives the story forward in some manner.  A sex scene, regardless of coupling, placed in a game, movie, novel, television program, or whatever simply for the sake of a sex scene is bad writing.  Period.  Also, less tha 2% of the human population is gay, and homosexuality has been linked to larger families.  By the 22nd century families with larger than 2 to 3 children would be very rare except for sparsely populated colonies.

That being said what they r4eally need in the game, as a joinable NPC is a character like Torchwood's Captain Jack Harkness. 

[Arik7]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...
Since the game was advertised as your personal story where you can craft Commander Shepard into the person of your liking. Leaving out one major option is detrimental to this goal.

"major" option?

And since when sexual preference is a major part of one's personality?
You CAN chose the personality of your shepard, not being able to make him gay doesn't change or lessen that.

The more I see people demanding gay characters in games like it was part of  "gay rights", the more I have to giggle. Find a boyfriend/girlfriend in real life, instead of demanding developers to tailor a game and it's characters around your sexual preferences.

Sexuality  is a major part of everyone's identity, not necessarily personality.  If my Shepard has to be straight, then he is not really MY Shepard.    Do you feel that a gay main character could represent you?  Could you identify with a male PC who flirts with other men?   While ME does not force you into heterosexuality, it does force gay fans to remain single.  That's not much of an adventure anymore.

"Gay rights" is not the best term in this situation.  Fairness to gay fans - would be more appropriate.
I bet many gay fans of ME have bfs/gfs, but they still want to fully experience the Mass Effect Universe...

[Abriael_CG]

Lightice_av wrote...
One's sexual preferences are a quite central part of their personality.

Not really. I have quite a lot of homosexual friends (working in contact with the fashion industry makes them a quite common sight in my day) of both genres. The 99% of them are and behave like very normal people that just happen to prefer having relationships and sex with people of the same gender.

Sexual preference being a major trait of one's personality is a trait much more common to the "internet gay" (IE: the nerdish homosexual that expresses most of his sexuality on the internet, and that quite often never really had a boy/girlfriend in real life), that feels the need to scream his homosexuality to the world like it was the only part of his personality worthy of note and whines "OMG! SLIGHT TO GAY RIGHTS!" When a game doesn't allow him/her to dry hump people of the same gender.

It's hardly much to ask - a couple of per cents of the full game experience

Not really, it's quite a big change in the game's dialogue, and forces the writers to bend over their vision to tailor the game around the tastes of a minority (more often than not to express a totally unbelievable stereotypical token gay that has nothing do do with real homosexuals and just ends up feeling insulting to many that make oversensitivity the banner of their homosexuality)
Writers should be able to express their vision without diktats from a minority. If their vision includes homosexuals, more power to them. if it doesn't, there are other games that allow that.

Arik7 wrote...
Do you feel that a gay main character could represent you?  Could you identify with a male PC who flirts with other men? 

Actually Dragon Age forced me in flirting with other men just to express some friendship to Zevran. It didn't kill me. A gay character? if the story was good I could go for it. If it irked me too much, there are many games on the market. For sure i wouldn't go to a forum telling that having a straight character is my right.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 31 janvier 2010 - 09:34 .

[FataliTensei]

AltitudeNYC wrote...

Kozlovskiy wrote...

Where is an option for us gaymers to have a gay shepard?

There are a lot of cute hunks in the game, especially joker! I am a little disappointed because the developers didn't cater to the homosexual community.

I wish I could say that I feel your pain. . . but I really, REALLY don't.

My biggest worry was the opposite of yours. After playing Dragon Age and seeing that trying to become best friends with another guy somehow constitued sexual interest in more than one case, I was put off. It actually changed the way I was playing the game. Where as I would like to know as much as I could about everybody usually, I found myself reading questions carefully and avoiding things that may pan out in an "unintended way". That's not fun gaming, that's scary gaming.

it bugs me how in mass effect if I'm a male shepard and I try to be freinds with my female team mates it's considered me coming on to them

[Lightice_av]

Romances, gay, straight, or whatver, should not be placed in the game unless it drives the story forward in some manner. A sex scene, regardless of coupling, placed in a game, movie, novel, television program, or whatever simply for the sake of a sex scene is bad writing. Period

Oh, very much agreed. But apart from Kelly Chambers, all the optional romances in ME franchise so far very much fulfill these demands. If/when the gay option gets added to the game, it must have the same amount of depth and emotional involvement as every other option. Dragon Age succeeded at this, according to those who played Zevran's subplot, so I see no reason why it couldn't work in Mass Effect.

Not really. I have quite a lot of homosexual friends (working
in contact with the fashion industry makes them a quite common sight in
my day) of both genres. The 99% of them are and behave like very normal
people that just happen to prefer having relationships and sex with
people of the same gender.

 

Personality is far more than external demeanor. True, a gay character doesn't have to, or even necessarily should act stereotypically "gay", but their presence would still be a desireable addition, for the sake of equal treatment of those who want to have the same depth of character to their Shepard as those with more conventional preferences.

Not really, it's quite a big change in the game's dialogue, and
forces the writers to bend over their vision to tailor the game around
the tastes of a minority

 

They cartered to the xenophilic minority who liked Garrus and Tali - almost certainly smaller than the gay fanbase. Minority voices need to be listened as well, especially when their demands do nothing to damage the game experience of the majority.

Modifié par Lightice_av, 31 janvier 2010 - 09:37 .

[Killian Kalthorne]

Arik7 wrote...
While ME does not force you into heterosexuality, it does force gay fans to remain single.

That is what tends to happen if you are surrounded by heterosexuals men.

[AltitudeNYC]

Lightice_av wrote...

And since when sexual preference is a major part of one's personality?
You CAN chose the personality of your shepard, not being able to make him gay doesn't change or lessen that.

One's sexual preferences are a quite central part of their personality. That's the whole reason why the romance option exists at all in Mass Effect. I wouldn't cry if it wasn't there, but if you want to implement an option like that, then you better do it well, and in a way that appeals all the demographics. It adds depth to the character's personal story, and as it is, certain demographics are left without thatr depth.

It's hardly much to ask - a couple of per cents of the full game experience, but it would mean a lot to many people. People have started flamefests over much smaller issues, and so far the gay community on this forum has been for the most part very polite and intelligent about the matter, while the naysayers have been for the most part flamers with the maturity of a 13-year old.

It is a lot to ask, actually, it's too much.
It is not natural to expect that as an option when so few gamers and people fit that demographic. The majority of us are not gay and Shepard is not gay or a woman. Yes there is an option to play as a girl, but Shepard is definately a guy. Regardless of what you think there are definately perameters on Shepard. The parameters are very wide, but not that wide.

Hey. I persoanlly want to have a relationship with Dr. Chakwas, but
that didn't happen. Why the hell would there be an option to be gay
before something like that?

Modifié par AltitudeNYC, 31 janvier 2010 - 09:40 .

[Killian Kalthorne]

Um... Just because Shepherd is a "man's man" doesn't mean he couldn't be gay. I have met very masculine gay men, and very feminine straight men as well. Not everyone fits the stereotypes, ANYC.

[Arik7]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

Arik7 wrote...
While ME does not force you into heterosexuality, it does force gay fans to remain single.

That is what tends to happen if you are surrounded by heterosexuals men.

So no one in the galaxy is gay besides your Shepard?  That's not very realistic....

Modifié par Arik7, 31 janvier 2010 - 09:43 .

[Lightice_av]

The majority of us are not gay and Shepard is not gay or a woman. Yes there is an option to play as a girl, but Shepard is definately a guy. Regardless of what you think there are definately perameters on Shepard. The parameters are very wide, but not that wide.

You're 100% wrong with your assessment. There is no canon Shepard. Shepard can be just as well man or a woman. He or she can be a nice person or a bastard. He or she can decide whether to pursue a relationship while on duty, or not. If woman, she can enter to a relationship with a female alien. So why not a man, just the same?



And as I've said many times, apart from the gay fanbase, there are also female fans who like to play as a male Shepard and find romance option to their interest. I certainly play both as male and female Shepards, and thankfully find something interesting both ways. Why not the other demography? Only because they remained silent while the xenophilic fan cried and made their voices heard, and for that they were listened to.



Now the gay fans and their supporters like myself do the same.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Arik7 wrote...
So no one is the galaxy is gay besides your Shepard?  That's not very realistic....

Remember, only 2% of the human population is gay.  That percentage may be higher or lower in other species.  Now add in the expanse of the galaxy.  It could be years before you meet another gay or lesbian, and even then the relationship may or may not work out.  Because of this, in my ever so humble opinion, is why I think bisexualism will probably be practiced more than homosexuality when we actually do develop FTL in the real world.

I am not against homosexuality in game.  I just want anything they put in the story to make sense.

Modifié par Killian Kalthorne, 31 janvier 2010 - 09:46 .

[Arik7]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Arik7 wrote...
Do you feel that a gay main character could represent you?  Could you identify with a male PC who flirts with other men? 

Actually Dragon Age forced me in flirting with other men just to express some friendship to Zevran. It didn't kill me. A gay character? if the story was good I could go for it. If it irked me too much, there are many games on the market. For sure i wouldn't go to a forum telling that having a straight character is my right.

I didn't ask you if you could play a gay character, I asked you if you could indentify with him.  Apparently you did not.   BioWare gives us all these customizations to create our Shepard, for immersion.   It's not anyone's right to have anything in game.  BioWare is a business and they can do whatever they want.   At the same time, gay fans should let them know that there is demand for such content.  You can create a thread about something you want to see in the next DLC pack or ME3, nobody is stopping you.

[Eternal Dust]

AltitudeNYC wrote...
It is a lot to ask, actually, it's too much.
It is not natural to expect that as an option when so few gamers and people fit that demographic. The majority of us are not gay and Shepard is not gay or a woman. Yes there is an option to play as a girl, but Shepard is definately a guy. Regardless of what you think there are definately perameters on Shepard. The parameters are very wide, but not that wide.

Are you kidding me?! Shepard is not gay or a woman? Do you have any evidence that BioWare stated that this was their intention? Shepard is who YOU shape him or her to be! For crying out loud, just because you can't imagine it happening to your Shepard does not mean that everyone else's Shepard is invalid.

And it's not a lot to ask for. The dialogue for same-sex romances was even recorded for both Ashley and Kaidan in ME1, but they left it out. The fact that it was there in the first place meant that they had intentions of putting it in. What people are asking for are just a couple of lines to allow them to validate their feelings. This is not asking for something out of the blue. This is asking for BioWare to be consistent with their games in the past. It didn't stop BioWare from putting same-sex romances in before even when the majority were still not gay. Would allowing more options for gamers really kill anyone? Seriously. <_<

[Abriael_CG]

Lightice_av wrote...

Personality is far more than external demeanor. True, a gay character doesn't have to, or even necessarily should act stereotypically "gay"

Which makes it a quite minor trait, now, doesn't it? 

but their presence would still be a desireable addition, for the sake of equal treatment of those who want to have the same depth of character to their Shepard as those with more conventional preferences.

Desirable for you? good. You're still in no position to demand it, or treat it as a right or a matter of "equality".
I'd prefer to romance kelly. I can't. I don't go around demanding it.

They cartered to the xenophilic minority who liked Garrus and Tali

They did because it was fitting their vision. Gay shepard didn't. Good for the ones that liked Garrus and Tali (which isn't that "xeno" anyway, you can pretty much imagine her as very humanoid).
You might want to give your money to a developer whose vision fits yours, if it irks you that much.

almost certainly smaller than the gay fanbase.

Is it? I'm pretty sure that the ones that asked for tali romance are quite a lot more than the ones that asked for gay shepard.

Minority voices need to be listened as well

Minority "CAN" be listened when it fits the developer's vision. It doesn't need to be listened. It's not part of gay rights.
If Bioware had to listen to the demands of every known minority, we'd have a game from them every 10 years, and it'd cost 200 dollars.

especially when their demands do nothing to damage the game experience of the majority.

This is the most naive comment I ever saw. I'm sorry. Game development is a matter of resources, and resources are finite. putting resources to implement "gay shepard" would invariably mean taking the resources from somewhere else IE: Damaging the game experience of the majority.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 31 janvier 2010 - 09:53 .

[Killian Kalthorne]

When I play a character I get into that role, and yes I have played gay characters. I have played straight characters. I have played lesbian characters. I have played Vici, an animenecrophiliac character. Don't ask. If you are going to take a role of a character play him or her full tilt. Otherwise it is a waste of time.

[Akiada]

Homeless Cheese wrote...

Like Bioware is gonna take the time to make gay options when maybe 1% of people who play this are gay. It would just be stupid and a waste of time.

And yet, there sits a fishtank and model ships in my cabin.

Truly, the population of gay ME fans must be smaller than he ME2 Fans-of-virtual-models-and-fishtanks!

FataliTensei wrote...

it bugs me how in mass effect if I'm a male shepard and I try to be freinds with my female team mates it's considered me coming on to them

This.

Every romance in the game needs to come with a "Not Interested" option. Srsly. There's literally no way to be nice to Ashley without entering into the romance unless you go after Liara. Kinda annoying, y'know?

[Abriael_CG]

Akiada wrote...
And yet, there sits a fishtank and model ships in my cabin.

Truly, the population of gay ME fans must be smaller than he ME2 Fans-of-virtual-models-and-fishtanks!

Actually collectibles are a quite popular part of gaming, and many people complained that in ME1 the cabin was too drab. So yeah, it's very probable that gay ME fans are a minority compared to fans of virtual models and fishtanks.

[Arik7]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

Arik7 wrote...
So no one is the galaxy is gay besides your Shepard?  That's not very realistic....

Remember, only 2% of the human population is gay.  That percentage may be higher or lower in other species.  Now add in the expanse of the galaxy.  It could be years before you meet another gay or lesbian, and even then the relationship may or may not work out. 

That's just silly.  Considering how many gays are closeted, I think your stat is very much understated.  But regardless, gay people tend to gather in certain places, it's very easy to meet a gay person if you want to.  With extranet in the 22nd century, it would not be a problem.... 

[Eternal Dust]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Akiada wrote...
And yet, there sits a fishtank and model ships in my cabin.

Truly, the population of gay ME fans must be smaller than he ME2 Fans-of-virtual-models-and-fishtanks!

Actually collectibles are a quite popular part of gaming, and many people complained that in ME1 the cabin was too drab. So yeah, it's very probable that gay ME fans are a minority compared to fans of virtual models and fishtanks.

You are making the false assumption that gay ME fans are the only ones who want same-sex romances.