168 réponses à ce sujet

[grumpymooselion]

MANoob wrote...

Janan Pacha wrote...
This means that your crowd control powers, cannot control anything until it's almost dead.

Well, in my experience singularity is a decent CC ability even on insane (once leveled up it immobilizes shielded enemies for a fair ammount of time and has a ridiculous cooldown). Adept is mostly limited to warp/singularity/class passive skill but these are ok.

Singulairty's effect on targets with their defenses up is quite minimal on insanity, even fully upgraded. I took that wholly into account when saying what I said. Singularity will not be often used. It will drain their defenses, but do so very slightly. The immob is brief, it's not a fair amount of time, and not worth the cooldown it puts on all your abilities since Reave would have been far more effective - read: Reave gets to the source of the problem, but does nothing to stop the main problem which is that by the time you can use your CC abilities . . . things are all but dead.

Actually
Warp works on shielded enemies, just does less damage. I don't know if
its a bug but if you aim Warp yourself without using pause menu it will
hit even shielded enemies and deal damage.

Warp on shields is near insignificant. Why aren't you using Reave? Reave does double damage to shields. That's the whole point of one part of my argument, is that as an Adept your Bonus power choices are very limited because it's so obvious that only a couple of them will ever be useful. Warp Ammo, Barrier and Reave are your selection. Slam will suffer from the same issue as your other biotics.

Warp is not for taking down shields. One warp will not take down a shield entirely. You'll go through cooldowns like crazy trying to take down a shield with just warp. His post was saying "Oh, I'll just throw out a warp and then send things flying with throw" and it DOES NOT work that way.

-

Never mind that it does nothing about the base problem, that the majority of your biotics become effective only when an Enemy is nearly dead. The main portion of your class is your ability to use Biotics as Crowd Control and you cannot use them until the enemy is Nearly Dead.

This is not difficult.

Modifié par Janan Pacha, 30 janvier 2010 - 04:50 .

[Roxlimn]

JananPacha:



I didn't assume that some classes shouldn't be playable. The fact that the hardest difficulty on this game can be completed with basic guns means that ALL the classes are playable., on every level.



The powers an Adept has are Singularity, Warp, Shockwave, Pull, and Throw. Of those, Warp and Singularity are of tremendous use against any enemy, and both Pull and Throw can be used to quickly finish off enemies hiding behind cover, allowing you to quickly move on to other enemies.



I'm not sure if Shockwave can be used on Shielded enemies. I will test later to make sure.



Pull and Throw are not crowd control powers. They're kill powers. Shockwave and Singularity are crowd control powers. Even then, I don't see how Pull or Throw is useless just because you can use a gun instead. The same argument could be made for Incinerate. Why use Incinerate when you can just use AP ammo and a Carnifex pistol and solve the problem with a bullet?

[jpetrey123]

Roxlimn wrote...

JananPacha:

I didn't assume that some classes shouldn't be playable. The fact that the hardest difficulty on this game can be completed with basic guns means that ALL the classes are playable., on every level.

The powers an Adept has are Singularity, Warp, Shockwave, Pull, and Throw. Of those, Warp and Singularity are of tremendous use against any enemy, and both Pull and Throw can be used to quickly finish off enemies hiding behind cover, allowing you to quickly move on to other enemies.

I'm not sure if Shockwave can be used on Shielded enemies. I will test later to make sure.

Pull and Throw are not crowd control powers. They're kill powers. Shockwave and Singularity are crowd control powers. Even then, I don't see how Pull or Throw is useless just because you can use a gun instead. The same argument could be made for Incinerate. Why use Incinerate when you can just use AP ammo and a Carnifex pistol and solve the problem with a bullet?

this^

[MANoob]

Janan Pacha wrote...
Singulairty's effect on targets with their defenses up is quite minimal on insanity, even fully upgraded. I took that wholly into account when saying what I said. Singularity will not be often used. It will drain their defenses, but do so very slightly. The immob is brief, it's not a fair amount of time, and not worth the cooldown it puts on all your abilities since Reave would have been far more effective - read: Reave gets to the source of the problem, but does nothing to stop the main problem which is that by the time you can use your CC abilities . . . things are all but dead.

Then I really dont know how I manage to stunlock trash mobs with it on insanity :/. The hold duration is ok, it just has a very small radius initially so make sure it hits. Cooldown  is 2.25 seconds with passive skill & upgrades.

Note that I generally agree with your point of view and I thin that most of the abilities that work only on unshielded enemies should be reworked. Im just saying than not all of CC abilities are useless.

Warp on shields is near insignificant. Why aren't you using Reave?
Reave does double damage to shields. That's the whole point of one part
of my argument, is that as an Adept your Bonus power choices are very
limited because it's so obvious that only a couple of them will ever be
useful. Warp Ammo, Barrier and Reave are your selection. Slam will
suffer from the same issue as your other biotics.

I'm using overload, because I'm playing Sentinel currently . Still warp can be used against shields, it would just take more time(x2) to take them out. 
And not only Adept choices of bonus powers are limited, everyone's are, because most of them are weak. I also think Energy Drain will work just fine for an Adept.

Modifié par MANoob, 30 janvier 2010 - 05:02 .

[grumpymooselion]

Roxlimn wrote...

I didn't assume that some classes shouldn't be playable. The fact that the hardest difficulty on this game can be completed with basic guns means that ALL the classes are playable., on every level

Actually that's exactly what you suggest when your response to a class having difficulties on said difficulty setting due to specifically their powers inability to work on targets with defenses up - when on said difficulty settings all enemies have said defenses.

Of those, Warp and Singularity are of tremendous use against any enemy,

They aren't. Warp is an inferior power to use unless the enemy is barried or armored. If the enemy is shielded Revae is the obvious power choice.

As for singularity, I've gone over this, a fully Upgraded signularity will not be effective against targets with defenses up. It will briefly effect their movement and very, very slightly drain their defenses. Nothing more.

and both Pull and Throw can be used to quickly finish off enemies hiding behind cover,

If you're finishing off enemies, then their defenses are gone already. This means, strangely enough, that your powers cannot be used until the enemy is all but dead, as I've been saying, and as others have been saying.

allowing you to quickly move on to other enemies.

That you can't use the majority of your powers against either.

I'm not sure if Shockwave can be used on Shielded enemies. I will test later to make sure.

Shock wave will very briefly cause a movement impairing effect on a target with defenses up. It's not worth the cooldown. You should be using reave to mess up their shields.

Pull and Throw are not crowd control powers. They're kill powers.

 . . .

Your inability to understand that those powers can't be used against
enemies with defenses up is baffling. Call them CC powers, call them
Kill powers, call them whatever you like - you still can't use them
until an enemies defenses are stripped, and by that point they're all
but dead. Shoot them with your gun because at that point it's just a
waste of a cooldown.

Shockwave and Singularity are crowd control powers.

 . . .

Your inability to understand that those powers can't be used against
enemies with defenses up is baffling. Call them CC powers, call them
Kill powers, call them whatever you like - you still can't use them
until an enemies defenses are stripped, and by that point they're all
but dead. Shoot them with your gun because at that point it's just a
waste of a cooldown.

Even then, I don't see how Pull or Throw is useless just because you can use a gun instead.

 . . .

Your inability to understand that those powers can't be used against
enemies with defenses up is baffling. Call them CC powers, call them
Kill powers, call them whatever you like - you still can't use them
until an enemies defenses are stripped, and by that point they're all
but dead. Shoot them with your gun because at that point it's just a
waste of a cooldown.

The same argument could be made for Incinerate. Why use Incinerate when you can just use AP ammo and a Carnifex pistol and solve the problem with a bullet?

Incinerate is your anti-armor ability.

[Kalduin]

I haven't had any trouble at all with shields and barriers playing as a Vanguard, though charge pretty much obliterates everything, coupled with the slow down and warp ammo. The way the game was designed as I have noticed it so far, is that there are alot of fluff enemies that you can use snap biotics on, and then there are the 'elite' enemies that you need to whittle down before you can send them flying into the depths of space.

You really just have to be tactical with how you use your powers, do you really expect to be able to throw a 5 ton Mech with the flick of a finger? How about slam an Asari right off the bat who is naturally talented in biotics and also has a couple hundred years on you?

Also keep in mind biotics in the universe has been around as long as the council has, and is relatively new to humanity, it's only natural that galactic technology would yield defenses to these types of powers.

The only gripe I had was that I couldn't combine my favorites, lift and throw, together anymore as a Vanguard, though pull and charge works similarly.


 To Janan Pacha, it simply sounds like you want the power without the balance for it, if they made biotics the end all be all, then guns would have less of an impact and the game really is more focused on the shooter aspect rather then powers. Again, your playing as a human, not born with but given biotic powers, unlike an naturally talented Asari, in the game, in that universal setting it makes sense.

 As far as why both using biotics when you can just shoot? It's gratifying, at least for me, and considering how fast the game is selling, I'd wager for alot others as well. You really use this arguement anywhere, why use a fatality in mortal combat if you could just crouch punch the other guy to death? Why call in an AC130 in MW2 if you can just run around with commando and knife the **** out of the other team?

 It's the coup de grâce, and I freaking love it.

Modifié par Kalduin, 30 janvier 2010 - 05:08 .

[grumpymooselion]

MANoob wrote...

Janan Pacha wrote...
Singulairty's effect on targets with their defenses up is quite minimal on insanity, even fully upgraded. I took that wholly into account when saying what I said. Singularity will not be often used. It will drain their defenses, but do so very slightly. The immob is brief, it's not a fair amount of time, and not worth the cooldown it puts on all your abilities since Reave would have been far more effective - read: Reave gets to the source of the problem, but does nothing to stop the main problem which is that by the time you can use your CC abilities . . . things are all but dead.

Then I really dont know how I manage to stunlock trash mobs with it on insanity :/. The hold duration is ok, it just has a very small radius initially so make sure it hits. Cooldown  is 2.25 seconds with passive skill & upgrades.

It doesn't hold them. It won't hold them unless their defenses are down. I'm not sure what you're seeing. I've used Singularity extensively myself, and know very well how it acts. If their defenses are up there's a brief, very brief, immob and a very, very slight drain on their defenses. Reave is the superior option here.

Note that I generally agree with your point of view and I thin that most of the abilities that work only on unshielded enemies should be reworked. Im just saying than not all of CC abilities are useless.

And I'd note that the CC abilities like Singularity that still have 'some' effect, are better replaced by reace to get rid of the source of the problem - the source of the problem being their defenses (reave for shields/warp for barriers/armor).

jpetrey123 wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...

JananPacha:

I
didn't assume that some classes shouldn't be playable. The fact that
the hardest difficulty on this game can be completed with basic guns
means that ALL the classes are playable., on every level.

The
powers an Adept has are Singularity, Warp, Shockwave, Pull, and Throw.
Of those, Warp and Singularity are of tremendous use against any enemy,
and both Pull and Throw can be used to quickly finish off enemies
hiding behind cover, allowing you to quickly move on to other enemies.

I'm not sure if Shockwave can be used on Shielded enemies. I will test later to make sure.

Pull
and Throw are not crowd control powers. They're kill powers. Shockwave
and Singularity are crowd control powers. Even then, I don't see how
Pull or Throw is useless just because you can use a gun instead. The
same argument could be made for Incinerate. Why use Incinerate when you
can just use AP ammo and a Carnifex pistol and solve the problem with a
bullet?

this^

"This" what? A stunningly flawed argument that completely ignores how you actually have to play an Adept on insanity? You end up playing an Adept like a different class on insanity, with less weapon options and less power options.

[darkwonders]

Janan Pacha wrote...

swils24 wrote...

Bigeyez wrote...

I feel the first response saying Biotics are fine L2Play aquedately covers this thread. Funny how I play insanity using my Adept and Sentinel and do just fine.

No argument, the adept class is playable.  You can beat the game on insanity with adept.  The problem is that it is nowhere near as fun or diverse (in terms of what you cast) on higher difficulties as it was in ME1.

I have some doubts he plays the Adept just fine on Insanity for one. Yes, you can beat the game on any difficulty with an Adept.

But are you able to beat the game as an Adept, while playing like an Adept? Or are you playing like another class, with less weapons and less powers to use?

Warp and Reave, or, if you prefer, Barrier, are the only Biotics I find useful. All the other Biotics are not usable until enemy defenses are down, or, if they're like Singularity, are usable (but only effectively slow an enemy - that has their defenses up - for a split second, and draining their defenses . . . but only very, very slightly). The truth of the matter is most of your biotics are never useful until enemy defenses are down, at that point an enemy is all but dead. That means by the time you can use most of your Biotics, you're essentially about to finish them off. This means most of your biotic powers are little more than fancy finishing moves.

Warp, Reave and Barrier - and Warp Ammo if you'd like to count that as a Biotic power - are the only truly effective biotics in the game.

As an Adept, because of how Bonus powers work, you would only have Warp and "ONE" other power that effective in the game. No other power is ever going to be useful until enemy defenses are down, and at that point those powers become usable as "nothing more than a finishing move" because once enemy defenses are down they're as good as dead.

More than that, Enemy biotics are not restricted in the same way at all. The same biotic power you would use, the enemy can use on you and do so against you, despite being shielded, very effectively. Whereas if you use that same biotic power on them (let's say pull or throw) it would do almost nothing to them as a target with defenses up. There's something inherently wrong with that when the same rules don't apply both ways.

It's the same inconsistency that says enemies have infinite ammo - and - infinite Heavy Weapon ammo. However, whereas your guns are always going to be useful, in some how, you can't say the same of 'your' biotic powers. Many of your biotic powers will only be useful as finishing moves.

The only powers that escape that are some of the least interesting Biotic powers. Warp is effective, but it's not fun. Reave is effective but it's not fun, it's not even visually fun. Reave has one of the most boring effects in the game.

Slam sounded like a fun power, but you'll never take it, and you won't take it because it suffers from the same issues that Pull and Throw and the other 'fun' biotic powers suffer from. That being that it will never be useful as anything other than a finishing move because it requires enemy defenses be gone to be useful, and if an enemies defenses are gone, they're as good as dead.

Whatever some of the people in this thread would like to tell themselves, this is a flaw, it is a glaring and obvious flaw.

It's also glaringly obvious in this thread which of you are playing on the easier difficulty modes, instead of on the modes that are actually hard. Image if you were a soldier and more than half of your abilities couldn't ever be used until the enemy was almost dead anyways. That's all it takes. Spend a good hour on insanity, if you don't see the flaw then you're blind. Biotics need to be looked at and changed. There's no reason why some classes should have to just throw up their hands and say, "Yeah, on those hard difficulty settings I can get by, but I have to do so without using most of my abilities - I'm like one of those other classes now, except I don't have their weapons and abilities . . . and heck, and can't use most of my abilities until things are all but dead."

The weaknesses, the reasons, for the Adept being where they are in terms of abilities and weapons are supposed to be made up for by their ability to control their enemies. On the higher difficulty settings you can't control your enemies until they're almost dead.

Do you see the problem?

You're saving grace as an Adept is meant to be crowd control.

You cannot use your crowd crontrol until the enemy is almost dead.

This is what the higher difficulty settings present you with.

Do you see the problem?

Let's try again:

Mechanic: What's supposed to keep you alive as an Adept is your Crowd Control.

Problem: You can't use your crowd control until the enemy is almost dead.

Do we see it now?

Do we need to do it again?

Okay:

MECHANIC: Adepts use Crowd Control.

PROBLEM: Their Crowd Control can't be used until the enemy is pretty much Dead.

Most sense I've seen in a post yet... 

Although I've been managing to go through the game with 2 biotics and an engineer... Granted I'm on Veteran, so the enemies aren't as immune as they would be on insanity.

[MANoob]

Janan Pacha wrote...
It doesn't hold them. It won't hold them unless their defenses are down. I'm not sure what you're seeing. I've used Singularity extensively myself, and know very well how it acts. If their defenses are up there's a brief, very brief, immob and a very, very slight drain on their defenses. Reave is the superior option here.

Once their defenses are down it won't hold them, it will lift them and send them flying. Until then it just immobilizes them. It also wont work on large enemies so don't expect much there. It still works fine against thash mobs for me.

Modifié par MANoob, 30 janvier 2010 - 05:20 .

[grumpymooselion]

MANoob wrote...

Janan Pacha wrote...
It doesn't hold them. It won't hold them unless their defenses are down. I'm not sure what you're seeing. I've used Singularity extensively myself, and know very well how it acts. If their defenses are up there's a brief, very brief, immob and a very, very slight drain on their defenses. Reave is the superior option here.

Once their defences are down it won't hold them, it will lift them and send them flying. Until then it just immobilizes them. It also wont work on large enemies so don't expect much there. It still works fine against thash mobs for me.

I see the problem here, I misunderstood your term "Hold" to mean the lift effect of Singularity. I apologize, I didn't grasp your meaning there.

[Roxlimn]

Janan Pacha:

You don't grasp a lot of meanings. A kill power is a power you use to finish an opponent whose shields or armor are down. Pull and Throw are examples of these powers (and the Adept isn't the only one with these powers, either!), but so is AI Hacking.

Yes, you can shoot a Prime whose defenses are down, but why waste ammo and shots? Better to shoot something that's still got defenses up, yeah?

A leveled Carnifex Pistol with AP rounds will shave off armor like nothing - Incinerate's got nothing on it. Why waste pistol rounds offing a mook when you can be aiming that pistol somewhere more productive? Even worse, why wait for the mook to get out of cover? Pull and Throw get around cover, allowing you to kill enemies quickly once defenses are down, without regard for whether they have cover or not.

Then you can aim that Phasic Tempest somewhere where it'll actually be useful.

Here: I think the problem is that you found Adept on Insanity so hard that it was un-fun.  Okay.  I'll make a run on Insanity specifically with Adept specifically and see if I have the same observations.  That good?  I just don't see a whole lot of problem with not using one or two powers on your class slate.  An Infiltrator could use Cryo ammo.  Personally, I never found the sense in it.  With the range you got on an Infiltrator, outright kill shots with AP ammo or Disruptor or Warp ammo where almost always better options.  Does that make the Infiltrator unfun?  I don't think so, at least not for me.

The powers for Infiltrator are:

Tactical Cloak, Incinerate, AI Hacking, Cryo Disruptor.

Of those I found AI Hacking and Incinerate of limited use.  Sure, Incinerate COULD off me some armor.  OR,  I can use the cooldown for Tactical Cloak and get into advantageous positions, as well as take off aggro, and get a 75% nonspecific damage boost to boot.  Cryo was cute, but since I had no use for Barrier as Advanced Training, I got AP ammo instead, and with the AP boosts on the pistol and the Sniper Rifle - well, it was pretty good.

Modifié par Roxlimn, 30 janvier 2010 - 05:29 .

[grumpymooselion]

Nevermind. Honestly. It's not hard to understand:

The Main set of an Adept's powers not being usable until an enemy is nearly dead is not okay.

An Adept's weaknesses are made up for by their Biotic powers.

An Adept can't use the majority of their biotic powers until defenses are stripped.

When anything's defenses are stripped they're nearly dead.

This boxes the majority of your biotics into being nothing more than finishing moves.

Having a class whose survival and weapons and abilities are based around being able to use their abilities to mitigate enemy mobility and firepower is a good idea - but when that class can't mitigate said firepower until the enemy is nearly dead completely contradicts that design point.

Not to mention it contradicts the enirety of the Promotional video on the Adept where it's claimed the Adept as the class that never has to fire a Shot. I suppose if you want to Spam Warp and Reave and never use any of your other powers until something's nearly dead . . . you can say they met that. The truth of it is the fun powers like Pull, Throw - even the bonus Slam power - can't be actively used in the meat of most fights . . . And the further truth is it would be far more cost effective to just shoot the enemy at that point.

Modifié par Janan Pacha, 30 janvier 2010 - 05:33 .

[Roxlimn]

Janan Pacha:



I meant when their defenses are down but they're in cover. Clearly.

[grumpymooselion]

Roxlimn wrote...

Janan Pacha:

I meant when their defenses are down but they're in cover. Clearly.

I'm sure. Do go on justifying that you can't use the majority of your powers until the fight is all but over.

Modifié par Janan Pacha, 30 janvier 2010 - 05:34 .

[Dave of Canada]

vhatever wrote...

madvibe wrote...

Sparrow475 wrote...

vhatever wrote...

Shut the hell up about TPS and FPS. I've been playing shooters sunce "duck hunt".

There is no real difference between them, and not enough to try to derail a thread with puerile trolling attempts.

i didn't even know about the weapon thing until I played a soldier. And that's just too far for me. Giving the soldier a ton of soldier exclusive content was the final straw for me. I was the one arguing it wasn't all that lopsided before discovering that.

Go play Uncharted or GOW and try and tell me they play the same as CoD or Halo. They don't. One major difference is cover. In a TPS you actually go into cover, whereas in an FPS "cover" is just being behind something.

I guess you haven't played Killzone

Or bioshock, or dead space, etc. Let's face it, they don't know what the hell they are talking about. They are just biting on handheld's troll bait. handheld's post made zero sense. ME2 isn't trying to get the TPS crowd, NEWS FLASH, THEY ALREADY HAVE THE TPS CROWD.

Bioshock and Dead Space didn't have cover, you just moved behind something. I don't know about Killzone, never played it.

[Roxlimn]

Janan Pacha:

Two is not "the majority of your powers," since the Adept power count is five. Last I checked, two out of five is not a majority.

Besides which, I don't understand how you're depleted every shield and armor in the area globally without killing anything. Aside from being difficult, it's also a stupid strategy. Once one enemy's defenses are down, Pull and Throw allow you the easy kill, regardless of cover. That doesn't mean the fight is over. It just means you can kill that one target.

And no, it's NOT more cost-effective to just shoot it.  That's because bullets in this game actually mean something.  Rather than offing some mook without defenses, I would rather use my ammo to deplete the next enemy's shields.

And yes, enemy health actually is that much - even on Normal.  It takes more than one bullet to off enemies.

Modifié par Roxlimn, 30 janvier 2010 - 05:50 .

[IRace82]

Hmmm



i havent read the whole tread but what is really funny and i would like to know the logic behind (and lore) why biotics cant damage or at least move opononet. Isnt that suppposed to be a force that manipulates mass? so biotics should at least move something around if not damaging it.



And another thing and I dont know if it has been mentioned before. How can your squadmates fire guns indefinetly while i cant and i have to pick clips? Am i getting flawed weapons? xD

[ShuMaKisO]

when you have a game with multiple classes. Whats wrong with having some that are easier to play with and some that require some skill and dare I say, tact? Some of us like a challenge.

[Jopper13]

I agree that biotics seemed to be downgraded a little bit with the "You can't do X to Y target because they still have Z defense up" which seems out of place. As an adept, you rely on your powers to fight and keep you alive.



But I do understand why the soldier class is so powerful and I agree with it for several reason.

1) New players can jump in as a soldier and survive much better, giving them that edge if they aren't used to games like this.

2) This is a third person shooter/ RPG combo... it is not an online MMO, so yes you can have one class that is superior to the others, mainly for the reason above. If you want a more unique or challenging game, play an adept or engineer, but for face stomping fighting power the soldier is the way to go.

3) Because being a soldier works. Period. Sure, you can type out commands on your Omni-Tool and hack a mech or use your mind powers to knock someone over, but shooting a gun well is always lethal. It always has been and always will be. Sure, adept and tech powers are cool, but being good at weapons, which are designed to kill, is powerful in any game.



I am not fully justifying the soldier class and saying it is 100% balanced, I just just understand why soldiers are more powerful and easy to play. My fiance finally decided to play ME and ME2 and she is not good at these types of games, so she plays a soldier on easy/casual so she can survive, not worry about complicated powers/abilities, and have fun.

[flamingdts]

ShuMaKisO wrote...

when you have a game with multiple classes. Whats wrong with having some that are easier to play with and some that require some skill and dare I say, tact? Some of us like a challenge.

You see, that brings up a lot of problems. First off, it means if you want a challenge you must play a specific class, not a specific difficulty. 

Second, there will be class discrimination, such as "Vanguards are for noobz", and what you get are silly and pointless arguments.

Third, nobody wants their favorite class to be made easier than the other class (or weaker than the other classes). It's like shotgun and sniper rifles. One does lethal long range damage, whiles the other lethal short range damage. The challenge should be in terms of difference in play style, not the power of a class. Some class could be more challenging in terms of  play style, but there should never be a class that is stronger than other classes in every way. Imagine if your favorite weapon is a shotgun, but the game designed it so that it is weaker in every aspect when compared to an assault rifle.

Modifié par flamingdts, 30 janvier 2010 - 05:59 .

[jerms510]

AR is garbage. tried using it a few times, mostly as a "oh sh*t I need to gtfo before I die". didn't work too well, as it doesnt slow down bullets.

[Roxlimn]

flamingdts:



So far, the only major input along the lines that Adepts actually are more challenging to play comes from a guy who thinks that two out of five is a majority. Pardon me for taking that with a little grain of salt.



Aside from the Soldier, all classes have at least one power that require defenses to be down before you can use them. Of the remaining classes, Vanguard gets Shotgun and Charge, Infiltrator get Sniper Rifle and Tactical Cloak.



Ammo specialties are okay-ish. It's not a huge deal. Losing the gun access is a bigger deal. In return, Adept gets Warp, Singularity, and Shockwave, in addtion to Pull and Throw. It doesn't seem like an overly bad deal given that you can more or less rely on your team mates for gun damage, anyway. Once your enemy's defenses are down, Throw for the quick kill and hunker back down to cover.



I'll have to really try it out on a full run for a definitive analysis, but if Adept is not as good, it's probably more to do with gun access than it is powers limitations, in which case the Sentinel would be in a similar position.

[grumpymooselion]

Roxlimn wrote...

Janan Pacha:

Two is not "the majority of your powers," since the Adept power count is five. Last I checked, two out of five is not a majority.

The only powers always effective against targets with defenses are the following:

Reave
Warp
Warp Ammo (if you want to consider it a power)

You will always have warp.

You have to choose between Reave and Warp Ammo.

You might choose barrier instead.

Singularity has minimal effect on targets with their defenses still up, and is not worth the cooldown.

Shockwave is in the same boat as singularity, but it is even less effective, its effect on a target is not worth the cooldown until enemy defenses are down.

Reave is probably the best choice for the Adept since it deals with the Shield problem best, and works well with Warp for Detonations.

None of your other powers are worth wasting a cooldown while their defenses are still up, even singularity - which still has some effect - is not worth it. One power you'll always have will be useful and that's Warp. Reave is the optimal bonus for complimenting warp because it takes care of Warp's lesser effect against shields.

Besides which, I don't understand how you're depleted every shield and armor in the area globally without killing anything.

Um, what? You can't kill them until their defenses are down. They all have defenses on insanity. You have to deplete their defenses before you kill them.

Aside from being difficult, it's also a stupid strategy.

I think you're confused. 

You can't kill them until their defenses are down. You have to take down their defenses, then kill them. The best option for killing them at this point is to use your gun, because the powers are a waste of a cooldown at this point - it's much more sensible to use a gun to kill the enemy in question and save your cooldown to use warp or reave on the next target to start taking care of their defenses.

Once one enemy's defenses are down, Pull and Throw allow you the easy kill, regardless of cover. That doesn't mean the fight is over. It just means you can kill that one target.

Why would you do that? It's much more sensible to shoot them and save your cooldowns to use another Warp or Reave on your next target.

And your argument makes no sense. The problem with the majority of your Biotics is they aren't effective versus targets that have their defenses up. This means you use Warp or Reave for most things, which are two of the most boring powers (especially reave, it's not only boring on a base level but it's also visually boring) in order to get rid of your target's defenses. Once a target's defenses are down they're all but dead at this point. You can use your other biotics effectively agains that target now, but they're be little more than a finishing move at this point.

This means the majority of your biotics are not useful until an opponent is nearly dead. This completely contradicts the build of the class, the classes weapon range and power range is built around the idea they're use their biotics - but the majority of their biotic choices can't be used until an enemy is nearly dead.

1. Singularity can be used prior to defenses going down but it has barely any effect - it does minimal damage to defenses and has a very slight immob effect, as such it is not effective until their defenses are down.
2. Pull is not effective until their defenses are down.
3. Throw is not effective until their defenses are down.
4. Slam is not effective until their defenses are down - and you can't have it and any of the other bonus powers. Because of this, it makes it a non-choice. Barrier, Reave or even Warp Ammo are all superior Bonus Choices.
5. Shockwave has an effect that is minimal against a target with defenses up (it will stutter their movement for a brief second), but this is not worth the cooldown on all abilities and is thus not effective unless they enemy has their defenses down.

1. Barrier is always useful, but you can't have it and Reave.
2. Reave is always useful, but you can't have it and Barrier.
3. Warp Ammo may not be considered a biotic power by some, but it's also an effective choice, however, you cannot use it and still have options like Reave or Barrier.

Complication: The only Biotic power that I haven't tried, and can't speak on is Dominate. Dominate in theory let's you take control of organic minds. I do not know if it is hindered by shields.

That leaves Five biotic powers that are only truly effective after an enemies defenses are down.

Three that are always effective, but not everyone may consider Warp Ammo a biotic power.

And one that I cannot speak for.

Want to just use the base powers?

Singularity - not wholly viable until an enemy is near death.
Throw - Not viable until an enemy is near death.
Pull - Not viable until an enemy is near death.
Warp - Always viable, but it's not as effective as Reave would be toward a Shielded target, its effect being minimal in comparison.
Shockwave - not wholly viable until an enemy is near death.

Which one is the only one you can almost always use effectively? Which one is always worth the cooldown?

Warp. Just Warp.

Modifié par Janan Pacha, 30 janvier 2010 - 06:12 .

[newcomplex]

Soldiers are saying the same thing about how soldiers are useless cause everyone gets the assault rifle and they don't have any utility.

Adepts are absolutely fine.   A single warp+incinerate from a squaddy will take out a pack of enemies sheilds, and you can mass pull for ez mass kills.   That is strategy.   Opening every fight with lift and ramboing everything is not. 

I sugges you QQers go PLAY MASS EFFECT again and realize how terrible everything was.

You people realize that once a enemies sheilds are down, they are at 50%.   Their are tons of scenarios where you need to use a biotic power to finish them off because your recieving heavy fire.      

Modifié par newcomplex, 30 janvier 2010 - 06:16 .

[Suron]

Behindyounow wrote...

Grind Axis wrote...

Handheld thinks it sad when a forumite can not understand the difference between a TPS and an FPS. Handheld is starting to lose faith in his fellow forumites.

Quoted for great emphasis. It's hard to take people on this forum seriously when they don't even know what they're talking about. Makes them just as dumb as the people they're talking down to.


Agreed.

FPS: First person shooter
TPS: Third person shooter.

I love this...this defense/rebuttle/response is one of the most brainless there are.

FPS vs TPS..as the OP said (not saying I agree with her points..but on this "she's" right)..they play virtually the EXACT same...just in one you stare at your own back/ass the entire time.

But it's ok...lack of intelligence dictates one must grasp at any straws possible when trying to discredit an arguement/point/view they don't agree on.

yah..the differences in TPS and FPS are...mindboggling....if you're a 2yr old retard....

Modifié par Suron, 30 janvier 2010 - 06:17 .