78 réponses à ce sujet

[Corti78]

I rewrote it too. I expect it to be a choice that matters in ME3 and determines how strong the Geth fleet is when its time to face the reapers. If not then I'll be disappointed since Legion made it seem important throughout the mission.

[slmisfit]

As much as I love Tali, I've never agreed with her views on the geth. I never saw them as the bad guy, even in the first game. I saw them as a race of sentient beings who were being manipulated and used by the reapers. After talking with Legion some, I definitely feel the quarians were in the wrong... both for making the geth in the first place, and for freaking out when their creations started evolving on their own.

Edit: If it isn't obvious, I chose to save the heretic geth and rewrite the virus, even though that option is really just as bad as destroying them (brainwashing = bad).

Modifié par blasphemae, 30 janvier 2010 - 10:30 .

[stylepoints]

I destroyed them because I couldn't bring myself to brainwash anything. It is more merciful to destroy them than brainwash them.

[jimmyjoefro]

Well, hopefully they don't destroy the Quarians once the Reapers are dealt with. I know there's one quarian that'll be safe!

[marshalleck]

I liked the development of the geth in ME2 and I really enjoyed my conversations with Legion. I just wish the character hadn't become available so late in the game. Hopefully it will be back in ME3 because there are still so many questions. It would be strange to finally give the geth a "face" only to take it away, even if Legion survives.

[Ilawene]

I destroyed them as I was worried that they might recover and overwrite the true Geth. I was also considering that the reprogrammed heretics might prove a weak link or trojan horse in me3 against the reapers, falling back into their old ways.

[asaiasai]

It is not any more upsetting to rewrite them than the reavers who initiated the virus to begin with. If this was a natural progression, evolution of the species i would have been more hesitant, but as it was caused by the reavers i considered it a restoration more than anything else. They got the rewrite and hopefully we have gained another powerful ally in the fight against the reavers. Plus i think that this will go along way to starting a dialog with the Quarians and the Geth that may involve a peacful solution. Mutual respect earned in a trial by combat as Quarian and Geth deal with a common enemy.

Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 30 janvier 2010 - 11:28 .

[Jigero]

Well the Quarians where always at fault here, They made the Geth and then when they be came sentient, the first thing they thought was "Kill Em All". Which forced the Geth to defend them selves and basically ****ed it up for the rest of the galaxy. There is no indication that if the Quarians just asked for peace and their planet back the Geth would even bother to refuse. The Geth have no desire to dominate, they have no particular need for the Quarian home world, they can easily live anywhere and they have no attachment to it in the slightest. They under stand that fighting a war does nothing for them. So don't see why they can't co existent on the same planet or even the geth just find some where else to live.

Also people who destroyed the geth really made the wrong choice, Your actually not brain washing a race, by doing so it's more of a cure, because fallowing the reapers would only lead to their destruction. Also when they are reintorduced to the regular Geth it makes them all stronger, because now they have information on the reapers. Not only that your giving them a new lease on life. It's better they live because it's better for the geth as a whole.

Modifié par Jigero, 30 janvier 2010 - 11:49 .

[TankHunter678]

As legion said "There is a non-zero chance the Heretics may come to the same conclusion again" I decided to blow them up.

The Heretic Geth essentially went through the synthetic version of indoctrination, knowing the reapers tendency to be very thorough I figured that by using the heretics as tools, they would place sleeper programs in them. If the Heretics were reintroduced into Geth society as a whole you will see the same effects as when indoctrinated members of the prothean race did to the rest of the protheans. The sleepers activate, everyone gets ****ed over.

In the case of the Geth, the sleepers would then proceed to rewrite the entire geth race to serving the reapers, a potential ally that just wants to develop and be at peace with its creators, would become nothing more then kill machines. By preventing that from happening by destroying the Heretics, I have protected the Geth race as a whole. Even if it was a very renegade choice to do so. But since I am working on my second ME2 file, I plan to use the rewrite, so I can see how it goes both ways anyways.

Modifié par TankHunter678, 30 janvier 2010 - 12:01 .

[Meltemph]

I heavily disagree that uploading the virus is ANYTHING but brainwashing. They chose to use the reapers to take a quicker, faster route to technologically advancement before they were ready. If you truely believe that the Geth are now sentient life, reprogramming their brain to agree with a point of view IS unethical. Sentient life is given the freedom of choice, with freedom of choice comes consequence. Taking away their "Self" is NOT an act of mercy, but a forceful and inhumane approach to them as a sentient life.



Would I advise brainwashing a human colony that was not indoctrinated, but still worshiping and helping the reapers? No, I would not reprogram them and erase who they are. So I would have to uphold that moral completely. Personally I think they got the Paragon/Renegade thing completly backwards with this choice.



Forced acceptance is not freewill, it is indoctrination.

[IceTitan]

 I rewrote them and got Tali and Legion to compromise, which seemed to make both of them accept each others presence. Would of been nice having dragged him in Tali's loyalty to see what would happen. But got him literally after doing all the loyalties and such.....

Thing is Geth don't see morality as we do and never will.
Like Legion said, killing them would be quicker, but by re-writting them, the heretics would remain in hiding until ready to return. Meaning it's going to be a slow and involving process, not like a switch that is imediatly turned off.

To them killing them off, could be seen as bad, remember that data is what makes them what they are. By returning them, yes you force them, but you also give the geth, knowledge, experience, and understanding as they are both separate but now they rejoin, adding their data to the other geth. Will it make the geth change, not likely. 

But it will give them knowledge about the reapers, experiences about what the heretics were doing and what they did do. You have to look at them as a computer,  as organic beings, yes it's a horrible act. But for them, it's an empowering act, and maybe the best of the two choices. Could make the difference in them figuring how to help against the reapers.

Modifié par IceTitan, 11 février 2010 - 08:18 .

[Nightwriter]

When I first saw Legion with the hole in his chest my imagination kickstarted.



I thought, how cool would it be if Legion were that original geth that Tali ambushed to get the evidence against Saren, and he somehow survived the damage of having his memory core removed, but it had changed him somehow?



The things I get in my head…

[notphrog]

I like the Geth. They have an interesting outlook. And if Legion is any indication, they are rather easy to get along with.



Don't get me wrong, I still love shooting heretics in the face.

[Giantevilhead]

I don't think it's the same thing as brainwashing.



Here's an analogy that I would make with humans. There are bacteria inside humans that affect the production of certain neurotransmitters. Some of them do it by breaking down food that's used to make these neurotransmitters, some of them actually make the neurotransmitters themselves. Some of these bacteria affect the production of neurotransmitters that improve your mood and allow you to cope with stress like dopamine and endorphin. If these bacteria were to all die off, there is a good chance that you'll spiral into a suicidal depression and kill yourself. If I had killed these bacteria in someone and they committed suicide, would you say that I brainwashed the person to kill him/herself?

[Meltemph]

If I had killed these bacteria in someone and they committed suicide, would you say that I brainwashed the person to kill him/herself?

If the Geth operated through emotions like that, you may have a slight point IF we were talking about mood or emotions, but we are not talking about altering their mood.



We are taking about forcing them to agree with a point of view that was discussed over. They chose the reapers because of the technology they provided. That is theirs, they own that choice, to take it away and force them to agree with said point of view IS indoctrination.

[Kileyan]

Don't care about them really. Bioware introduced Legion not only late in the game, but right on the precipice of the rush rush rush, point of no return. Seemed like a cool character, but a really bad introduction.

I would have liked to have him/it around a bit before having all those epic questions and decisions shoved at me.

Modifié par Kileyan, 11 février 2010 - 08:43 .

[Giantevilhead]

Meltemph wrote...

If I had killed these bacteria in someone and they committed suicide, would you say that I brainwashed the person to kill him/herself?

If the Geth operated through emotions like that, you may have a slight point IF we were talking about mood or emotions, but we are not talking about altering their mood.

We are taking about forcing them to agree with a point of view that was discussed over. They chose the reapers because of the technology they provided. That is theirs, they own that choice, to take it away and force them to agree with said point of view IS indoctrination.

You're missing the point. It's not about the emotion, it's about manipulating a factor involved in decision making. Emotions and moods are mechanisms in humans that affect how we make decisions. If I can manipulate someone's emotions then I can increase or decrease the chances that they'll do something. The Geth probably don't have emotions but they have some kind of mechanism that helps them make decisions. If I make alterations to that mechanism then it can change the decisions they make. That kind of change in the Geth would be analogous to me manipulating emotions or moods in humans.

[Edje Edgar]

Even though I played paragon, I completly agree brainwashing them would be the bigger of two evils. It's really weird that a paragon shep when first confronted by this option by legion reacts shocked and gives a lecture on how he wouldn't brainwash any other species either. Yet, when he gets to choose it's the renegade option to blow them up?



I think it's because legions systems are 573 in favour of rewrite and 570 in favour of blowing up the base. Maybe a paragon shep should have gone with "democracy"?

[Meltemph]

The Geth probably don't have emotions but they have some kind of mechanism that helps them make decisions. If I make alterations to that mechanism then it can change the decisions they make. That kind of change in the Geth would be analogous to me manipulating emotions or moods in humans.

So you are saying they made that choice not of their own freewill? They were not forced into it and they were not malfunctioning when they made that choice. Legion made that clear at the Geth base when he was confused about the heretics use of tactics and monitoring. He said they understood their stance and said straight up that their decision wasnt considered "wrong" for the heretics, but was considered wrong for them.



You cont compare the 2 races like that. Legion even says they have no hardware, only software. The way they come to consensus is completely different from us.

[Meltemph]

^That is another good point. Even Shep said that it was the equivalent to brainwashing. Legion then said, the choice is either that or destroying them.

[Hoax86]

I'm suspicious that rather than the heretics coming to their senses, the other Geth will absorb their experiences and come to see the Reapers as Saren did - they're too powerful to be resisted, and the only hope of survival is working for them.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I always liked the Geth so the rewrite was an obvious choice for me, even with my renegade character. It seemed like the whole brainwashing thing was a little bit more uncertain as Legion explained it because of how the Geth interact with each other. Besides it would be a waste to destroy a potentially valuable resource.

[Giantevilhead]

Meltemph wrote...

The Geth probably don't have emotions but they have some kind of mechanism that helps them make decisions. If I make alterations to that mechanism then it can change the decisions they make. That kind of change in the Geth would be analogous to me manipulating emotions or moods in humans.

So you are saying they made that choice not of their own freewill? They were not forced into it and they were not malfunctioning when they made that choice. Legion made that clear at the Geth base when he was confused about the heretics use of tactics and monitoring. He said they understood their stance and said straight up that their decision wasnt considered "wrong" for the heretics, but was considered wrong for them.

You cont compare the 2 races like that. Legion even says they have no hardware, only software. The way they come to consensus is completely different from us.

If they truly are completely different then the "brainwash" analogy wouldn't work either.

If you're going to make a "brainwashing" analogy then you're comparing Geth thinking processes with human thought processes. If they think in a completely different way than humans then neither the "brainwashing" analogy nor the analogy I gave would work.

Also, I never said that the rogue Geth were robbed of their free will when they made that choice. I'm saying that Legion's virus isn't brainwashing because it would not actually take away the rogue Geth's free will, it would simply change the conditions of that free will. I used the emotions analogy because it's easy to understand. People's decisions change based on your emotions. Certain moods make people more aggreeable. It is possible to modify a person's mood to a point where they become extremely agreeable to certain suggestions. Such an alteration would not actually take away somene's free will, it would simply modify their decision making to such a degree that you can get what you want.

[Ferocious7]

Having Geth on my side against the Reaper's will be extremely valuable if it pays off after having the "heretics" re-written in Legion's loyalty quest.... and if they kiss & make-up with the Quarians.. teamed up they could create technology the ME galaxy has never seen before.... giving the Reaper's a nice surprise when they arrive :::::turns on lights:::: SURPRISE! bammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm =)