80 réponses à ce sujet

[slmisfit]

Thompson family wrote...

Then I hope I can leave the mercenary out. I refuse to let people burn just to make him happy. Next game, I'm not even picking him up.

You do the loyalty missions however you see fit. You don't let the personalities of the squadmates dictate how YOU handle their quests. You can still get Zaeed's loyalty, even if you go the paragon route.

Modifié par blasphemae, 01 février 2010 - 11:24 .

[CapnRumbeard_]

It also depends on the difficulty. I put the last mission on casual for the first time.



I didnt have all the upgrades I dont think although I had the ship ones and a couple crew member ones. Garrus was always my team leader and I let my crew die.



My Tali was not upgraded at all but she still lived.

[ammit23]

Saved everyone. All loyal except Zaerus, got all upgrades, so on. Sent Legion thru vent, Garrus as 2nd leader both times, Samara was the biotic, Jack (LI) went back with crew. Used paragon to resolve Tali/Legion dispute. Played most (not all) missions with Grunt and Jack except loyalty missions where you're almost forced to mix it up.



Noticed on final boss that I got really low on health and wasn't healing from being in cover. Is that how you can loose Shep - they just deactivated healing?

[Corephyfish]

Jessant wrote...

People losing Tali/Legion despite other factors in the suicide mission. Are you sure you didn't lose their loyalty immediately beforehand by picking a white (not charm/intimidate) option to settle their dispute? Because I'm pretty sure that's why Legion dies for me, I told Legion to just stop transmitting because I thought he shouldn't be using this unique situation as an opportunity for cross species espionage instead of picking the renegade option and upon reloading a save game inside the Collector base noticed he isn't loyal anymore despite having done his loyalty mission.

Its pretty sad how the white options are objectively worse but its a balance with having no consequences to your behavior so cant complain to much.

nope I picked the blue, I had enough charm points to do it, Legion was the only member of my squad to die.

[ComTrav]

Honestly, the unpredictability of it adds to the fun and tension of the fight. In a few months when I can go to Gamefaqs or wherever and see exactly what I need to do to win, it'll feel mechanical and boring. Right now it's still a Serious Decision to send Tali or Legion into the vents, and I freaked out a little bit when Samara seemed to get tired of holding up the Biotic barrier. (Which begs the question: Why didn't she just let Miranda or adept Shepherd put up the barrier and take a break? But her big biotic wave of awesome at the end was totally worth it.)



I wouldn't be surprised if there are hidden timers. I had heard about the timer after the Reaper IFF so I just did Legion's loyalty mission. And after the non-hidden timer on the vents, I did my best to move quickly through each section in case it mattered. (Besides, am its not like I'm trying to find lockers to hack for credits in the last mission...)

[Wynne]

Paragon Fury wrote...

I had all vital ship upgrades. Probes and the Med Bay play no part in the endgame - no need to waste resources on them.

I had all character's loyalty done, and everyside quest except a couple on the Citadel and Omega done.

I had all Paragon decisions, except for the ass-whuppin I gave Ehljen in Thane's Loyalty mission.

I sent Tali into the vents. She took a Rocket to the face at the door.

Zaheed has more experience than either Garrus or Miranda, yet somehow he still died after the second Fireteam mission.

And people can still randomly die by getting flung off the platforms in the end, or by being crushed by the pillars.

But did you have all weapon upgrades? Shotgun damage, assault rifledamage, pistol, tech, biotic damage? All the stuff that affects the team that you got during missions? There are sometimes research capsules along the way during the smaller missions that you do. If you missed a lot of those, just didn't pick them up, then they wouldn't show up on your research kiosk in Mordin's lab on the ship. If you missed enough tech damage upgrades, then I think that has an effect.

Like Hope Slayer, I had only Kelly and some crew members die my first time through--it was because I waited too long and prepared too much to come get them because I wanted my whole squad to live. It did. I had upgraded EVERYTHING, and found upgrades on planets I visited.

As to loyalty, the whole game I was supportive and diplomatic with my squadmates. Maybe dialogue options also count somehow. Improve or decrease your chances.

I also believe ShadowAldrius is right; it may be there are more factors according to speed. Like, if the player takes too long in this spot, there's a 60% chance of Mordin dying, or if X is team leader in the last portion, there's a 60% chance of Mordin dying. It may be that you can make a mistake of some sort and it comes down to whether you had the tech upgrade how much of a chance it will be that Mordin, who maybe thinks he should've been the team leader, will not listen fast enough at a critical moment and thus die. That's my best guess at this time.

ComTrav wrote...

Honestly, the unpredictability of it
adds to the fun and tension of the fight. In a few months when I can go
to Gamefaqs or wherever and see exactly what I need to do to win, it'll
feel mechanical and boring. Right now it's still a Serious Decision to
send Tali or Legion into the vents, and I freaked out a little bit when
Samara seemed to get tired of holding up the Biotic barrier.

I completely agree. It really feels like it MATTERS what you do when you KNOW someone can die. It's so much better. Potentially heartbreaking and frustrating if you were trying hard to save them all, but that just makes it more meaningful.

Modifié par Wynne, 01 février 2010 - 11:49 .

[Jessant]

Difficulty level might be messing with people reporting different results from the same circumstance. If we believe upgrades/conversations and the like have an effect its not unlikely that half the checks are wavered on easier difficulties.

[Delsch]

My first round was well. Dunno. I had the ship upgrades but far from all tech/weapon/armor etc upgrades.

I sent Jacob into the vents, as I wasn't paying attention at that moment and naturally he died. I know he was bad at tech so yeah.

Miranda was leader both times, Samara the biotic guard, Tali walked the crew back.

Had Thane and Garrus in my own team the whole while.

Mordin survived the whole thing without me bothering him.

So everyone lived but Jacob cause I was being stupid. Don't know if the speech might do something too? I took basically all the paragon choices there.

[kappukiino]

OldMan91 wrote...

Actually you have an absolute measure of control over who lives and dies.

Do the following:

1. Upgrade everything. The ship, the weapons, the armour, the unique teammate upgrades, everything.

2. Gain their loyalty. Do every side quest for all your teammates.

3. When you're in the Collector's Base choose either Legion or Tali as a Tech specialist. Choose either Garrus or Miranda as a second squad leader. Choose Jack or Samara as a Biotic specialist. Choose any teammate to escort the crew back to the ship.

That's it.

Zaeed and Mordin dead

[captaincooler]

Zaheed is a DLC, he's not in the system to be a squad leader. Beyond that, he's a merc, he doesn't lead teams, he goes on solo missions, and even when he does lead, he doesn't care if they make it or not.

Wrong, he can be a squad leader and he has lead teams. You should proabably read his info. Also pay him a visit and chat for a while down in the cargohold, use the garbage compactor to stay entertained.

Anyway I thought I would describe my experience, since at least one thing happened for me that no one else has mentioned. I played through on insanity with all upgrades, loyalties, blah blah, you know everything. I chose Legion as the tech expert (pipes), Zaeed as squad leader, and brought Tali and Thane with me. Legion did a super fail and couldnt get the door closed so he and Shepard physically closed it which caused Legion to get shot in the face. Then i had Miranda be squad leader, Thane made the barrier, Jacob took the survivors back, and Tali and Samara were in my squad. I'm not entirely sure what happened or why, but Samara was outside the barrier in the cutscene as we ran in and she died. That really pissed me off, but looking back i dont know why i didnt reload my save. For the end I told everyone to hold the door while Tali, Thane, and i defeated the worst final boss in video game history. I will say good cover up by BW, (reapers are modeled after what they are made of - lol) I made most of my choices based on what my friend had done, meaning no copying, i didnt choose anyone for any role that he did. Still working on a paragon play through so we shall see what happens with that.

Also, I really want some sort of interactive program where we can simulate the outcomes, basically an equation where we fill in who does what and it gives us all the details of the outcome. Not so i can get a perfect ending where no one dies, but just so i can know all my options or kill off certain characters if i feel like it. I still dont even know how you complete the game but with Shepard dying. They said that was possible right?

Modifié par captaincooler, 01 février 2010 - 12:55 .

[KainrycKarr]

blasphemae wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Then I hope I can leave the mercenary out. I refuse to let people burn just to make him happy. Next game, I'm not even picking him up.

You do the loyalty missions however you see fit. You don't let the personalities of the squadmates dictate how YOU handle their quests. You can still get Zaeed's loyalty, even if you go the paragon route.

How do you get his loyalty without letting them die?

[slmisfit]

KainrycKarr wrote...

How do you get his loyalty without letting them die?

By being a badass paragon, that's how. Seriously, I did the paragon options in his loyalty mission and still gained his loyalty. You do NOT have to do it HIS way, but I'm guessing you do have to have enough paragon points to choose the charm options that pop up when talking to him.

[stillnotking]

You need a very high Paragon rating to get Zaeed's loyalty if Santiago lives. Since a lot of people do that mission early in the game, it's easy to miss.

[Shady314]

captaincooler wrote...

Zaheed is a DLC, he's not in the system to be a squad leader. Beyond that, he's a merc, he doesn't lead teams, he goes on solo missions, and even when he does lead, he doesn't care if they make it or not.

Wrong, he can be a squad leader and he has lead teams. You should proabably read his info. Also pay him a visit and chat for a while down in the cargohold, use the garbage compactor to stay entertained.

Anyway I thought I would describe my experience, since at least one thing happened for me that no one else has mentioned. I played through on insanity with all upgrades, loyalties, blah blah, you know everything. I chose Legion as the tech expert (pipes), Zaeed as squad leader, and brought Tali and Thane with me. Legion did a super fail and couldnt get the door closed so he and Shepard physically closed it which caused Legion to get shot in the face. Then i had Miranda be squad leader, Thane made the barrier, Jacob took the survivors back, and Tali and Samara were in my squad. I'm not entirely sure what happened or why, but Samara was outside the barrier in the cutscene as we ran in and she died. That really pissed me off, but looking back i dont know why i didnt reload my save. For the end I told everyone to hold the door while Tali, Thane, and i defeated the worst final boss in video game history. I will say good cover up by BW, (reapers are modeled after what they are made of - lol) I made most of my choices based on what my friend had done, meaning no copying, i didnt choose anyone for any role that he did. Still working on a paragon play through so we shall see what happens with that.

Also, I really want some sort of interactive program where we can simulate the outcomes, basically an equation where we fill in who does what and it gives us all the details of the outcome. Not so i can get a perfect ending where no one dies, but just so i can know all my options or kill off certain characters if i feel like it. I still dont even know how you complete the game but with Shepard dying. They said that was possible right?

Legion died because you made Zaeed the fire team leader.

Samara died because only she or Jack are strong enough biotics to hold the field the whole time and then make a blast wave.

Load again and try it you'll see. 

EDIT: Shepard dying is easy. Don't upgrade the Normandy. Don't do any loyalty missions. Don't bother recruiting everyone.

Modifié par Shady314, 01 février 2010 - 01:23 .

[captaincooler]

Shady314 wrote...

captaincooler wrote...

Zaheed is a DLC, he's not in the system to be a squad leader. Beyond that, he's a merc, he doesn't lead teams, he goes on solo missions, and even when he does lead, he doesn't care if they make it or not.

Wrong, he can be a squad leader and he has lead teams. You should proabably read his info. Also pay him a visit and chat for a while down in the cargohold, use the garbage compactor to stay entertained.

Anyway I thought I would describe my experience, since at least one thing happened for me that no one else has mentioned. I played through on insanity with all upgrades, loyalties, blah blah, you know everything. I chose Legion as the tech expert (pipes), Zaeed as squad leader, and brought Tali and Thane with me. Legion did a super fail and couldnt get the door closed so he and Shepard physically closed it which caused Legion to get shot in the face. Then i had Miranda be squad leader, Thane made the barrier, Jacob took the survivors back, and Tali and Samara were in my squad. I'm not entirely sure what happened or why, but Samara was outside the barrier in the cutscene as we ran in and she died. That really pissed me off, but looking back i dont know why i didnt reload my save. For the end I told everyone to hold the door while Tali, Thane, and i defeated the worst final boss in video game history. I will say good cover up by BW, (reapers are modeled after what they are made of - lol) I made most of my choices based on what my friend had done, meaning no copying, i didnt choose anyone for any role that he did. Still working on a paragon play through so we shall see what happens with that.

Also, I really want some sort of interactive program where we can simulate the outcomes, basically an equation where we fill in who does what and it gives us all the details of the outcome. Not so i can get a perfect ending where no one dies, but just so i can know all my options or kill off certain characters if i feel like it. I still dont even know how you complete the game but with Shepard dying. They said that was possible right?

Legion died because you made Zaeed the fire team leader.

Samara died because only she or Jack are strong enough biotics to hold the field the whole time and then make a blast wave.

Load again and try it you'll see. 

I just wish it wasnt so restricted but oh well. Thanks for clearing that up

[Funkcase]

Legion in the vents, he's the best tech you have.

Garrus as second leader.

Jack as biotic shield she is the most poweful biotic on your squad.

Samara escorted the SR2 crew back to the ship.

Miranda as next team leader.

took Grunt and Thane with me.

Everyone survived.

Modifié par Funkcase, 01 février 2010 - 01:31 .

[Palathas]

On the first Part I chose -
Thane Specialist and Samara the leader of the Fire Team. When I got a "Good choice" for Samara I knew I was on a winner but when Thane kept complaining that he was burning up in the vents I knew I was in trouble and yes, he died with a rocket in the face. I then thought Tali with the enviro suit or Legion as a robot would be better, with Legion in front because he was an Infiltrator and Tech where as Thane was only Infiltrator and Tali was only Tech.

Second part I used Jack(Subject Zero) as the Biotic Specialist (mainly because I upgraded her Amp and the game keeps banging on how she is such a kick *ss biotic), Zaeed as the Fire Team distraction and Jacob as the escort to get the crew back. As was said before, Zaeed is a poor leader due to his younger years and no suprise he died. All others went well though. I took Miranda and Samara with me for the final battle and I saved Samara from going off the edge.

I wasn't really sure who I was going to replace Zaeed with for the Fire Team distraction but I was leaning towards Garrus because he lead a Merc team in my 2 year hiatus.

Edit: I'm not sure if this plays a part but my character for this was a Vanguard.

Modifié par Palathas, 01 février 2010 - 01:37 .

[.shea.]

First time around I sent Legion in the vents

Samara as the team 2 leader

Jack with biotic shield

Zaeed to escort the crew back

Jacob as the diversion team leader

took Thane and Tali to the boss fight

Result: Legion caught a rocket in his head while closing the door (I mightve been too slow opening the vents for him.



Second try:

Tali to the vents

Garrus to lead the 2nd team

Samara to hold the biotic shield

Zaeed to escort the crew back

Jacob to lead the diversion team again

Tali and Garrus to the boss fight

Result: Everyone lived (opened the vents for Tali alot quicker than first time around)



I had all Normandy and squadmember specific upgrades and loyalty missions.

[jedierick]

I am curious as to if you dont upgrade ANYTHING on the ship, if that is how you die at the end. I know that some characters will die in the attack if nothing is upgraded, maybe the ship cannot fly back after you set the charge and blow everything up?



Anywhoo



Upgraded everything on ship

Upgraded 85% of weapons and armor

All team members loyal, did all loyalty quests before crew got abducted.

Legion was sent into the vents

Miranda was the fire team leader

Jacob was second team leader - He got shot but survived.

Brought Miranda and Garrus with me to kill the HR (Human Reaper)

Sent Mordin back with crew

Samara was my biotic shield.

Everyone Survived



Interesting thing though, the first time I played the ending, I sent Zaeed back with the crew, but Mordin died, so I reloaded and played the ending again, sent Mordin back and nobody died.



I do not think this is random, I think it is based of of what you have done with characters, how well the are equipped. Mordin just couldnt handle holding off the collectors while I delt with HR, but he could take on the collectors to get everyone back to the ship.

[Vengal345]

I kept having people die until I took miranda with my main party, no idea what the deal with that was but mine looked like this any no deaths.



Main party- Legion/Miranda(Until terminator then Miranda/Tali)

Vents-Tali

Fire Team leader both times- Garrus

Biotic- Jack

Escourt- Zaeed



Used the same comp with the exception of the final party in both my renegade and paragon games with no casualties. I don't trust Miranda or Jack around each other so I think it worked out for the best separating them.

[Wugger]

I got everyone through alive.



I had all loyalty missions done and all ship upgrades (even medbay and pods)



I sent Legion as tech specialist (Took Tali in my squad) And Jacob as my fire team leader.



Chose Samara as my Biotic



Sent Mordin back with crew.



everybody lived so I was happiness.

[blaidfiste]

Jessant wrote...

People losing Tali/Legion despite other factors in the suicide mission. Are you sure you didn't lose their loyalty immediately beforehand by picking a white (not charm/intimidate) option to settle their dispute? Because I'm pretty sure that's why Legion dies for me, I told Legion to just stop transmitting because I thought he shouldn't be using this unique situation as an opportunity for cross species espionage instead of picking the renegade option and upon reloading a save game inside the Collector base noticed he isn't loyal anymore despite having done his loyalty mission.

Its pretty sad how the white options are objectively worse but its a balance with having no consequences to your behavior so cant complain to much.

You're on to something!  Same may go for the Miranda and Jack fight.  If you chose one over another, you may get screwed if the disappointed party member has to lead a team or hold a barrier.  Also a charm or intimidate speech at the end may curb some random squad deaths after the final boss.

[L4RD M4N2]

I played the ending for the 4th time with the same exact save I had.



I guess the two people you take with you to fight the final boss actually matters. Tali and the Doctor died for me after the right choices, but I never actually took them with me to the boss fight. So I decided to do that, and boom they're both alive at the end.

[Naltair]

captaincooler wrote...
I just wish it wasnt so restricted but oh well. Thanks for clearing that up

It's not really restrictive you just made bad choices, well sub optimal choices.  For the three critical roles, not including the escort which any Loyal teammate can do, you want to go for the best choices for the best chance of success.

Leaders: Garrus, Jacob, or Miranda.  Others might do it, but you will probably lose the vent infiltrator in the process.

Vent Infiltrator: Legion or Tali are the best fits for this role hands down.  If you want them to survive.

Biotic: Samara or Jack are both the best choices for this part as well, probably Morinth in place of Samara can get the job done.  The Other biotics just don't have enough juice to finish the job.

Final Boss Team: Anyone as long as they are loyal, or they will die at it's conclusion, speculation though.

Escort: Any loyal teammate can fulfill this role.

I will add I am a proponent that there is probably some hidden time element for some of the suicide mission sections but I cannot prove this intuition.

Modifié par Naltair, 01 février 2010 - 08:50 .

[Naltair]

With that said you can probably get everyone to survive with only 4 loyal teammates, 1 Leader leads the team both times, 1 tech guy, and 1 biotic, and 1 person to escort. You just have to use the biotic and tech guy or whatever is left 4th loyal teammate for the boss.

Just a theory but it should work. I believe loyalty is really only vital for the critical roles...

Modifié par Naltair, 01 février 2010 - 08:53 .