153 réponses à ce sujet

[Homebound]

I never got to know this...I thought she just had her own issues and that I shouldnt stick my nose in it.

[AA-bi-polar]

It would be nice if she was a LI in ME 3. Even if you did cheat on her with another character there is still a chance to rebuild that relationship given the chance. If I don't it'll be like ME 2 without Cerberus bringing Shepard back...

[jlb524]

BlackwindTheCommander wrote...

I called her obsessed and left without another word... Is that bad?

Yes it's bad.  You have to ask her why's she's angry with the Shadow Broker after you've completed the 'Observer' quest.  That makes it all better.

[DigitalMaster37]

All this talk about Liara has me really desiring to see her again. Come on BioWare with the Liara DLC!!!

[Qfisher]

Quite frankly?  I like seeing the additional scene, which I'd managed to miss on my Shepard, but it didn't make me feel as if everything was still fine.  If anything, it hammered home to me that the relationship was over despite Liara's efforts.

Liara isn't the same person that Shepard encountered when fighting Saren.  She might have been, in the start, and she was willing to give anything to have Shepard back.  But that was still nearly two years ago - not a long time for an Asari, but still enough time for her to go from being a researcher to someone who would spend her time hunting down and destroying the Shadow Broker.  Now she had different priorities, different outlooks on life, different ways of behaving.

Shepard was still running about and trying to do her job of saving the galaxy.  Liara was involved in personal power struggles.  By perspective, by changes in events, by so many variables, they had drifted apart.

ME2 makes no bones about the idea that Shepard is not the center of the universe.  Important, sure, but not the be-all and end-all.  Shepard's crew had their own lives to deal with, and while they wouldn't have wanted the commander dead... well, the world moves on.  They've moved on.  Every single person in the crew continued with their life, and they weren't just sitting there waiting to hop back on the ship at the slightest invitation.  The fact that Garrus and Tali were both willing to drop things and run back with you says more about what the two of them really wanted to be than anything else.

Liara still cares about Shepard, but I think she realizes that the relationship is over, sad though it may be.  She's moved on, for better or for worse.

Or maybe my Shepard was just getting really sick of asari behavior.  It made sense at the time.

[jlb524]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

All this talk about Liara has me really desiring to see her again. Come on BioWare with the Liara DLC!!!

Here she is....



...but yeah, a Liara DLC mission would be awesome!!

[Qfisher]

jlb524 wrote...

...but yeah, a Liara DLC mission would be awesome!!

Only if we get an Ashley DLC mission too.

Kaidan I could frankly care less about.  Sorry, but he always struck me as being, well, Carth Onassi without the interesting.  His voice actor, while good, didn't exactly help that impression.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Qfisher wrote...

Quite frankly?  I like seeing the additional scene, which I'd managed to miss on my Shepard, but it didn't make me feel as if everything was still fine.  If anything, it hammered home to me that the relationship was over despite Liara's efforts.

Liara isn't the same person that Shepard encountered when fighting Saren.  She might have been, in the start, and she was willing to give anything to have Shepard back.  But that was still nearly two years ago - not a long time for an Asari, but still enough time for her to go from being a researcher to someone who would spend her time hunting down and destroying the Shadow Broker.  Now she had different priorities, different outlooks on life, different ways of behaving.

Shepard was still running about and trying to do her job of saving the galaxy.  Liara was involved in personal power struggles.  By perspective, by changes in events, by so many variables, they had drifted apart.

ME2 makes no bones about the idea that Shepard is not the center of the universe.  Important, sure, but not the be-all and end-all.  Shepard's crew had their own lives to deal with, and while they wouldn't have wanted the commander dead... well, the world moves on.  They've moved on.  Every single person in the crew continued with their life, and they weren't just sitting there waiting to hop back on the ship at the slightest invitation.  The fact that Garrus and Tali were both willing to drop things and run back with you says more about what the two of them really wanted to be than anything else.

Liara still cares about Shepard, but I think she realizes that the relationship is over, sad though it may be.  She's moved on, for better or for worse.

Or maybe my Shepard was just getting really sick of asari behavior.  It made sense at the time.

QFT. Liara is a completely different person.

[Driveninhifi]

Qfisher wrote...
Liara still cares about Shepard, but I think she realizes that the relationship is over, sad though it may be.  She's moved on, for better or for worse.

Not so sure that's true. If she had moved on, why would she kiss Shepard? Why be afraid Shepard would hate her? She probably isn't sure where they stand, but from the dialogue I got the picture that she still very much wants Shepard to be a part of her life. Most of what she did was for Shepard, after all. I do think there needs to be more exposition they need to explain Liara's development quite a bit more - otherwise it seems that the character changed too much. The DLC needs to have Shepard and Liara talk alone, and work out their relationship.

I do think there should have been an option for Shepard to tell Liara he/she loves her after she says she's afraid Shepard will hate her.

[jlb524]

My Liara/Shepard relationship is still going strong. My Shepard did stare longingly at her photo before kicking Collector a**. I always wondered how Shepard got the Liara picture?



Anyways, Liara seems to think the relationship is still going on as well. After seeing Shepard again, she looks lovingly at her, grabs both of her hands, and then kisses her. Seems like she's still interested.

[Qfisher]

Driveninhifi wrote...

If she had moved on, why would she kiss Shepard? Why be afraid Shepard would hate her?

Why would she kiss Shepard?  She lost someone she did care about very deeply at the time and spent two years coming to terms with it.  More or less out of nowhere, Shepard shows up on her doorstep, looking hardly the worse for wear.  The pacing of the scene makes it ambiguous as to whether or not she or Shepard initiated the kiss - personally, it seemed to me that Shepard was the one who moved in for the kiss in the first place.  That makes the immediately following actions - her stepping away, looking rather nonplussed, and walking back to her desk - have a much clearer meaning.

The kiss didn't exactly upset her.  But it was the reminder of something that she had lost and dealt with losing.

As for being afraid Shepard would hate her?  She had, in her mind, given Shepard's body to the last people in the galaxy who should have any access to it.  She did something out of loss and grief and the desperate desire to be back together with the person she loved... only to spend two years moving on and getting over that ache.

And again, then Shepard shows up.  So, yeah, I would also be a little afraid that "sorry, I sold your body to terrorists to resurrect you and I don't love you any more" would result in Shepard hating her.  She isn't going to fall apart if it happens, but the idea isn't a pleasant one.

[implodinggoat]

The Shadow Broker is a legitimate threat, so I can see what she's doing even though she does seem a tad obsessed. The problem is just the way its presented. If she was just a crew member its fine; but if she was your love interest she seems so cold that its hurtful. If you choose the obscure dialogue the OP highlighted, it softens the blow; but since they used the exact same dialogue for her regardless of whether she was your love interest or not she still comes off as kind of cold. I mean with Ashley or Kaiden at least their reaction is pretty definitive; but with Liara you don't know where you stand. She didn't get the attention she deserved in ME2, hopefully she will in ME3.



PS: I agree some DLC featuring Liara would be great and considering her interest in The Shadow Broker, it definitely has potential. I just hope the DLC includes some dialogue for the people who loved Liara in the first game, cause her appearance in this game just didn't cut it. Don't get me wrong the voice actress did a fine job, its the writers who ****ed up.

[implodinggoat]

Qfisher wrote...

Driveninhifi wrote...

If she had moved on, why would she kiss Shepard? Why be afraid Shepard would hate her?

Why would she kiss Shepard?  She lost someone she did care about very deeply at the time and spent two years coming to terms with it.  More or less out of nowhere, Shepard shows up on her doorstep, looking hardly the worse for wear.  The pacing of the scene makes it ambiguous as to whether or not she or Shepard initiated the kiss - personally, it seemed to me that Shepard was the one who moved in for the kiss in the first place.  That makes the immediately following actions - her stepping away, looking rather nonplussed, and walking back to her desk - have a much clearer meaning.

The kiss didn't exactly upset her.  But it was the reminder of something that she had lost and dealt with losing.

As for being afraid Shepard would hate her?  She had, in her mind, given Shepard's body to the last people in the galaxy who should have any access to it.  She did something out of loss and grief and the desperate desire to be back together with the person she loved... only to spend two years moving on and getting over that ache.

And again, then Shepard shows up.  So, yeah, I would also be a little afraid that "sorry, I sold your body to terrorists to resurrect you and I don't love you any more" would result in Shepard hating her.  She isn't going to fall apart if it happens, but the idea isn't a pleasant one.

I got the same impression as well as the perception that she might have fallen in love with whoever it is that the Shadow Broker took from her.   Its not that her moving on is unrealistic; but if would be a real dick move if Bioware didn't let Shepard try to do something about it.  I realize that they want players to take an interest in some of the new romance options; but browbeating the player who wants to be loyal isn't necessary.

[Driveninhifi]

I think the kiss was initiated by Liara and the reaction afterward is more bad animation than anything. I think they are trying to get across the fact that's she's a) worried about being watched and afraid what will happen if/when Shepard finds out what she did. The nonplussed look is just the default look the models have in the game.

I don't exactly think she's gotten over Shepard - I don't think she's gotten over anything and that has a lot to do with why she's so angry. I think the only thing that makes sense is that she's got a lot of guilt. She feels guilty about turning over the body. Her "screw up" when getting the body caused her friend to get killed/captured. I think she just doesn't know exactly where they stand, but would definitely be willing the continue the relationship. I think they really should have let Shepard bring it up - it hits a false note for me that you can't. Feels like they deliberately want to leave the player hanging. Shepard needed to be able to say "I still love you" after she says she's afraid Shepard will hate her.

I also don't buy her falling in love with the "friend." It doesn't fit the character at all. Plus, if the friend is the drell from the comics they've barely known each other. And for the timeline to work, he has to have gotten captured/killed during the recovery of the body (she mentions she's been searching for 2 years, so whatever the impetus for the obsession must have occurred while finding the body). Having her fall in love with someone else so soon after Shepard's death would really ruin the character.

Also, there is Liara DLC planned. Take a look at the CookedPC directory.....

Modifié par Driveninhifi, 01 février 2010 - 04:34 .

[Qfisher]

implodinggoat wrote...

I got the same impression as well as the perception that she might have fallen in love with whoever it is that the Shadow Broker took from her.   Its not that her moving on is unrealistic; but if would be a real dick move if Bioware didn't let Shepard try to do something about it.  I realize that they want players to take an interest in some of the new romance options; but browbeating the player who wants to be loyal isn't necessary.

Eh, I don't know.  ME2, in some ways, feels a bit more real to me simply because you don't get to choose what happened over the last two years one way or the other.  There's no way to convince Wrex to leave Tuchanka, for example, no matter how good your relationship with him was.  It gives the character a bit more depth.  Similarly, Garrus's personal quest didn't run like his quest in ME - there's no talking him down or trying to get all sides of the story, there's simply a choice of doing what he asks or not.

You can't do anything about the fact that you spent two years dead or that Cerberus resurrected you.  No matter how much you rail against it, sometimes things simply are what they are.

Driveninhifi wrote...

I think she just doesn't know
exactly where they stand, but would definitely be willing the continue
the relationship. I think they really should have let Shepard bring it
up - it hits a false note for me that you can't. Feels like they
deliberately want to leave the player hanging.

I'm beginning to believe that discussing the plot of these games is a bit like arguing over a Rorschach blot - there's so much open to interpretation.  Depending on Shepard's personality, that's another way to read the whole interaction and no more or less valid.

We will, in all likelihood, get to see more of Liara in the future, one way or the other.  Losing the first person that she had ever been romantically involved with in a century of life might have just been more of a shock than is immediately evident.

Food for thought: perhaps Shepard and not Liara is the one who doesn't want to discuss things any further?  Perhaps her change in personality is just too much?

Modifié par Qfisher, 01 février 2010 - 04:37 .

[ShadowAldrius]

firehawk12 wrote...

Cheers. It's too bad if you select "Liara's Needs", you don't get a chance to hear this. Kind of a bit of an oversight on their part.

Yeah, it has to be a bug. The investigate options aren't supposed to end the conversation.

I don't really like Ali Hillis' performance here, though... her voice is too airy and wispy or something. It's a good performance otherwise but... yeesh.

[ratzerman]

jlb524 wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

All this talk about Liara has me really desiring to see her again. Come on BioWare with the Liara DLC!!!

Here she is....



...but yeah, a Liara DLC mission would be awesome!!

Sigh.......... there's my girl.  So beautiful, and so sad.

All of this "Liara is cold, she's changed" talk has is going to give me an ulcer.  It makes me miss the days when people called Liara a wimp, and called her fans cradle-robbers.  At least you could laugh at those folks.  Hiding her final cutscene the way they have, it's almost as if Bioware wants people to get the wrong impression of her.

[GnusmasTHX]

wow I didn't realize this convo was hard-found or anything. I got it the first time.

[ratzerman]

Driveninhifi wrote...

Also, there is Liara DLC planned. Take a look at the CookedPC directory.....

You've mentioned this before, but it seems too good too be true.  How exactly does hacking the game's directory tell you there's going to be character-specific DLC?

[jlb524]

ratzerman wrote...

All of this "Liara is cold, she's changed" talk has is going to give me an ulcer.  It makes me miss the days when people called Liara a wimp, and called her fans cradle-robbers.  At least you could laugh at those folks.  Hiding her final cutscene the way they have, it's almost as if Bioware wants people to get the wrong impression of her.

You're right.  The people that didn't see that dialog have legitimate reasons to feel that Liara is cold towards them.

The cradle-robber and wimp people are just ridiculous and playa-hating on Liara.

We'll have to stand tall and keep trying to convice people that Liara isn't a cold-hearted b*tch!    Hopefully the remaining issues of the Redemption comic will help.

If not, it's going to be a loooong two years 

[Vayrand]

ratzerman wrote...

Driveninhifi wrote...

Also, there is Liara DLC planned. Take a look at the CookedPC directory.....

You've mentioned this before, but it seems too good too be true.  How exactly does hacking the game's directory tell you there's going to be character-specific DLC?

Do a simple search like you would when searching for a song

Modifié par Vayrand, 01 février 2010 - 04:54 .

[jlb524]

ratzerman wrote...

Driveninhifi wrote...



Also, there is Liara DLC planned. Take a look at the CookedPC directory.....

You've mentioned this before, but it seems too good too be true. How exactly does hacking the game's directory tell you there's going to be character-specific DLC?

There's an audio file called 'twrhub_liara_dlc_lead_in_d_S_INT'. I don't know if we can jump to conclusions, however.

[ratzerman]

jlb524 wrote...

There's an audio file called 'twrhub_liara_dlc_lead_in_d_S_INT'. I don't know if we can jump to conclusions, however.

Hmmmm........ interesting, but you're right about jumping to conclusions.  Even if Liara gets worked into DLC somehow, the romance angle probably won't be. I keep thinking of that Casey Hudon interview, when he talked about ME2 being the "troubled" time in the love story, and how it would "continue" in ME3.

But...... but....... I don't wanna be troubled in a videogame.  Real life is troubled enough.

Maybe I should stick to Nintendogs.

[Lycid]

Will Liara care in ME 3 if I sleep with Miranda?



Seriously, if Bioware codes something like she gets mad at you for sleeping with someone in ME2, they are truly evil.

[ratzerman]

Lycid wrote...

Will Liara care in ME 3 if I sleep with Miranda?

Seriously, if Bioware codes something like she gets mad at you for sleeping with someone in ME2, they are truly evil.

Evil?  Or moral?  They've said that cheating in ME2 will have consequences in ME3.
So sleep around at your own risk.