153 réponses à ce sujet

[implodinggoat]

vigna wrote...

2 years to Liara may be 2 actual years, but to an Asari its like 2 months in the span of their life. Shepard was sleeping for 2 years so it's been zero time really. In that situation how hard could loyalty be?

True and she did go a hundred years without before she met Shepard.

[CanadAvenger]

implodinggoat wrote...

****.  I was just talking to Samara about the homicidal murder addicted Asari called the Ardat-Yakshi  and I just got a very bad feeling about what Bioware is going to do to Liara in ME3.  (To avoid spoilers for those who have not completed Samara's loyalty mission I have not mentioned the name of the Ardat-Yakshi who appears in ME2.)

Consider the following.

1:  Liara seems to be acting differently and is demonstrating a more coldblooded nature then one would have thought her capable of.

2:  Samara said that Ardat-Yakshi don't manifest symptoms until they reach maturity and while the one Ardat-Yakshi in ME2 apparently manifested symptoms at or before the age of 40, Liara is still quite young by Asari standards.  Alternatively Asari maturity could be activated by the joining of minds involved in Asari sex and as you will recall Liara was a virgin at the start of ME1 and even if Shepard did not become her lover there's no telling exactly what she's been up to in the two years between ME1 and ME2.

3:  While it is perhaps coincidental, ME1 and ME2 have only featured two Asari who's eyes have changed color from blue to pure black.  The two Asari are Liara and the Ardat-Yakshi in ME2.  The change to pure black eyes may be a trait universal to the Asari; but then again it might not be.

4:  Only pureblood Asari who are born from a union between two Asari may manifest the genes to become an Ardat-Yakshi and as you will recall Liara is a pureblood Asari.

4:  Liara doesn't know who her real mother is.

5:  Benezia never told Liara who her mother is leading one to believe that she likely had a reason to hide this fact.

6:  All of Samara's children have manifested the Ardat-Yakshi gene.

7A:  It is possible that Samara is Liara's mother.  After she took the justicar oath Samara was duty bound not to have children (for good reason in her case).  While this seems reassuring it would also be a very good reason for Benezia to hide the identity of Liara's mother.

or alternatively

7B: During the ME1 showdown with Benezia ( who you will recall was just a wee bit power mad and evil in ME1.) she says to Shepard "You do not know the priviledge of being a mother. There is power in creation.".    Furthermore the Ardat-Yakshi in ME2 reffered to herself as the genetic future of her people.  It is thus possible that Benezia used  technology to create (clone?) Liara without Samara's participation in an attempt to produce a superior Asari.  Much like Grunt was created to be the perfect Krogan. 

8:  There is no cure for an Ardat-Yakshi.

That is all incredibly viable.
However, the Asari on Feros who gives Shepard the Cipher also has eyes that turn black.

But if this turns out to be true.... there will be many, including myself, who will not be happy.

[seyera]

While I think this cleverly hidden dialouge should have been more accessible, I think it will have benefits for the people who stayed loyal to Liara. I mean, she is the only reason Shepard is still alive right now. Besides, without looking at forums, I think a smaller percentage of players will ever see this and that could have a heavy impact on later decisions. That being said, I have a feeling BioWare is going to include her a lot in ME3 (At least I hope so). There is a lot of potential for her story. Not to mention she is the only character certain to be alive in the finale. After seeing this part I didn't choose an LI in ME2, and I thought the picture clip instead was great!

[vigna]

I want the picture deal on my next playthrough.

[Katsaurs]

I will have to play through again with my Shep to get this dialogue, alas I missed it due to me thinking it was a possible renegade option. Just my luck- I'm glad I had the chance to see it over on youtube, it makes me feel a whole lot better about keeping loyal to her now- and it really was heart wrenching to hear how she couldn't let Shepard go like that.



@implodinggoat: Wow I honestly never thought of that, all those points are scarily viable in many ways that I seriously hope poor Liara doesn't turn out to be an Ardat-Yakshi. I can't help but feel that not only would many who stayed true to her would feel upset by it, but I also feel Liara's been through too much hell already.



I mean she 'witnesses' the death of someone she loves deeply and the only person she's ever joined with- to have that taken away from her so suddenly at the hands of the collectors is enough to break her heart if not her soul. It's apparent already that she really is so deeply in love with Shepard (holds more weight if you romanced her I guess), perhaps on all levels when she states she just couldn't let her/him go like that. No person would go to such extreme lengths as to pretty much sell their soul to the Shadow Broker, and get herself into so much personal debt while losing a dear friend in the process unless they had deep reasoning to do so. And I feel her love for Shepard is enough for that.



So to have her become an Ardat-Yakshi after all that? I think it would destroy her.

[Larask]

implodinggoat wrote...

****.  I was just talking to Samara about the homicidal murder addicted Asari called the Ardat-Yakshi  and I just got a very bad feeling about what Bioware is going to do to Liara in ME3.  (To avoid spoilers for those who have not completed Samara's loyalty mission I have not mentioned the name of the Ardat-Yakshi who appears in ME2.)

Consider the following....

I doubt it. First, Samara says how many Ardat-Yakshi are out there (and are related to her), and she explains where the others are. Second, the black eyes are not only present in these two Asari, remember Shiala on Feros? So, it's a common trait. And then, Samara would also know about Liara, and probably have informed her about the posssible condition. Overall, this would be a pretty poor written story for Liara, and as an LI, it would be both dissapointing and it's wouldn't make sense either since the romances are suppose to be resumed in ME3.

[Naughty Bear]

Wow. She sounded like she was on the verge of tear's. When she find's out i had snoo snoo with Tali, Liara will be pratically in pieces!



I cant wait for Mass Effect 3. **** fight!

[Nozybidaj]

OK, went back and replayed a bit to get the conversation with Liara, I still don't feel any better about Liara's portrayal in ME2 or the handling of the romance. For being one of the "big choices" you make in ME1 BW really did the whole scene a disservice in ME2. No option to tell her you still care for her, no option to tell her you'll be back once the mission is done, no acknowledgment at all that anything had ever happened between the two of them.



Of all the ball drops BW has in ME2 this is definitely the biggest one in my book, really feels like they went out of there way here to make people who played ME1 and enjoyed the Liara romance feel neglected. I suppose next we are gonna find out she has "relations" with her "friend" at some point in the comic, as surprising as it is she could find time to fit it in between all the rape attempts. /sigh



And here I didn't think my opinion of the ME2 characters and story could go any lower....

[bjdbwea]

implodinggoat wrote...

I was just talking to Samara about the homicidal murder addicted Asari called the Ardat-Yakshi  and I just got a very bad feeling about what Bioware is going to do to Liara in ME3

That's certainly a possibility. However, if we learned one thing in ME 2, it's that nothing is as definite in the ME universe as it may seem. If the developers wanted, there could easily be a quest to find a cure. Though it does seem they're rather out to find a way of removing Liara from Shepard's story. Let's hope they read their forums before deciding.

If you remain faithful to her during the game (not getting any other
love intrests with your crew), at the beginning of the Suicide Mission
you see Shepard walk into his room and stare longingly at the picture of
Liara on his/her desk, then sorta clench his fists, and crack his/her
knuckles as if to say "I'm doing this for you."

Yes, that was at least something, and nicely done. It gives at least hope that BioWare will come up with a good continuation and conclusion in ME 3. Still, if they "allowed" Shepard to feel that way still, why on earth didn't they allow him to say anything AT ALL to Liara? It is simply unrealistic, to the extent that it breaks the immersion.

[Larask]

bjdbwea wrote...


Yes, that was at least something, and nicely done. It gives at least hope that BioWare will come up with a good continuation and conclusion in ME 3. Still, if they "allowed" Shepard to feel that way still, why on earth didn't they allow him to say anything AT ALL to Liara? It is simply unrealistic, to the extent that it breaks the immersion.

Exactly my thoughts. I can understand her not joining the crew, but to not being able to talk to her so much is just unrealistic, especially with a character like Liara. I really don't get why/how Bioware did this.

[mmmu]

Ah, I have to jump in and agree on the part that it was most odd that Shepard wasn't given the option to tell anything about her feelings to Liara.

I could live with the fact Liara wasn't gonna come around to travel with me this time around, but I really wished to express my feelings to her. I mean, I've just been dead for two years, now I'm back and been fed all this apocalyptic pressure and the one person I trust and love is out of my reach, and I can't tell her that. So many things to say, so much love and longing to express!

Just before the suicide mission I walked up to Liara's office yet again hoping I could tell her that I'm going now and I don't know if I'm coming back. But nada. That was a little bothering to me.

Funnily enough, I had my own moment similar to the video of watching the picture before punching through the relay, because I felt I needed that quiet moment with Liara, even if it was just with the picture. Boy was I happy when the cutscene appeared. The greatest touch of the whole sequel was that piece of video.

I'm very optimistic about Liara in ME3 right now though, I think she'll be back big time and there's lots of room for development on that part. And yeah, the fact that she reacquired Shepard is very comforting. Ah, wall of text.

Logging you out, Shepard.

Modifié par mmmu, 02 février 2010 - 01:01 .

[Curry Noodles]

Add me to the list of people seriously disappointed with Liara's "romance". That clip is really great though, makes me glad I didn't go sleeping around with the crew. That really should have been one of the mandatory parts of the conversation if you were in a relationship.



Considering how well done Thane, Garrus, Tali, and Jack's romances were, you'd think there'd at least be something to Liara. I could barely tell my character had even romanced her in the first game. Just thinking to myself "Well, that was a letdown. So much for continuing romances from ME1". I heard that the Ashley/Kaiden ones are also very bad/poorly done.

[Nozybidaj]

Curry Noodles wrote...

Add me to the list of people seriously disappointed with Liara's "romance". That clip is really great though, makes me glad I didn't go sleeping around with the crew. That really should have been one of the mandatory parts of the conversation if you were in a relationship.

Considering how well done Thane, Garrus, Tali, and Jack's romances were, you'd think there'd at least be something to Liara. I could barely tell my character had even romanced her in the first game. Just thinking to myself "Well, that was a letdown. So much for continuing romances from ME1". I heard that the Ashley/Kaiden ones are also very bad/poorly done.

All the ME1 romances were mishandled.  I think every resigned themselves to the fact that they weren't going to be squad mates, but the complete lack of being able to acknowledge them was a real let down, and not in a good story oriented way but in a bad BW really messed this up sort of way.

[CanadAvenger]

mmmu wrote...



Just before the suicide mission I walked up to Liara's office yet again hoping I could tell her that I'm going now and I don't know if I'm coming back. But nada. That was a little bothering to me.

I did the same thing. But alas, no avail. Also, I went back to her AFTER the suicide mission to see if she had anything different to say, or if I would say something along the lines of "Hey I just kicked ass for you". But no...

Now that I mention it, noone outside of the crew had anything to say in regards to the last mission, but I suppose you can counter that with "They were the only ones that knew"

[Taritu]

speedy111280 wrote...

That scene makes me hope they'll give those Shepard's that romanced Ashley or Kaidan in ME 1 or anyone in ME 2 the option to dump them for Liara. Liara clearly loves Shepard whether you romanced her in ME 1 or not, and I'd love to be able to have this dialogue make Shepard rethink some things about their LI.

Liara is awesome. My Shepard's that romanced her are never going to cheat on her. I'd feel like such a douche if they did.

Yeah, pretty much.  I want to romance the other characters, but it's going to be on different Shepards 'cause I can't bring myself to cheat on her.  I did catch this without being told on the forums, but only because I saw some options disappeared, thought that was odd, and went back to a quicksave.  So glad I did.  Granted, she says the same thing even if you didn't romance her, but I think that's because Liara loves you no matter whether you returned it or not.

Anyway, Liara's my lady.

[Taritu]

And hey, even if not as much as we might have wanted, still so much better than what happens to Ashley/Kaidan romancing Sheps. That's just a straight up gut punch.

[Nozybidaj]

Taritu wrote...

And hey, even if not as much as we might have wanted, still so much better than what happens to Ashley/Kaidan romancing Sheps. That's just a straight up gut punch.

At least they stuck to character.  In fact Ash and Kaidan have the most believable motivations and reactions out of anyone in the game.

[ratzerman]

Katsaurs wrote...

I will have to play through again with my Shep to get this dialogue, alas I missed it due to me thinking it was a possible renegade option. Just my luck- I'm glad I had the chance to see it over on youtube, it makes me feel a whole lot better about keeping loyal to her now- and it really was heart wrenching to hear how she couldn't let Shepard go like that.

I shudder to think how many people bought this game, missed that last cutscene, and will never find out about it.  Honestly, what percentage of players actually come to these forums?  It can't be that high.  In all likelyhood, there are hundreds of thousands of people out there who have now formed negative opinions of Liara based on an incomplete experience. 

Why would Bioware do this?  Why would they sabotage their own creation?  Are they that desperate to sweep the original love interests under the rug?

[Daeion]

Qfisher wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

...but yeah, a Liara DLC mission would be awesome!!

Only if we get an Ashley DLC mission too.

Kaidan I could frankly care less about.  Sorry, but he always struck me as being, well, Carth Onassi without the interesting.  His voice actor, while good, didn't exactly help that impression.

Yes yes, missions for all of our ME LI's and set them to recognize if we had gone through the relay yet or if we came back and have them act accordingly.  I was a little upset that the only thing I could look at before going off to kill myself was a simple picture, would have been nice to be able to say goodbye.

[Jman2113]

Wow...I...I didn't know. I was thinking she was just too swept up in some vendetta and didn't love me, or care to start things up again.

[Daeion]

implodinggoat wrote...

Qfisher wrote...

Driveninhifi wrote...

If she had moved on, why would she kiss Shepard? Why be afraid Shepard would hate her?

Why would she kiss Shepard?  She lost someone she did care about very deeply at the time and spent two years coming to terms with it.  More or less out of nowhere, Shepard shows up on her doorstep, looking hardly the worse for wear.  The pacing of the scene makes it ambiguous as to whether or not she or Shepard initiated the kiss - personally, it seemed to me that Shepard was the one who moved in for the kiss in the first place.  That makes the immediately following actions - her stepping away, looking rather nonplussed, and walking back to her desk - have a much clearer meaning.

The kiss didn't exactly upset her.  But it was the reminder of something that she had lost and dealt with losing.

As for being afraid Shepard would hate her?  She had, in her mind, given Shepard's body to the last people in the galaxy who should have any access to it.  She did something out of loss and grief and the desperate desire to be back together with the person she loved... only to spend two years moving on and getting over that ache.

And again, then Shepard shows up.  So, yeah, I would also be a little afraid that "sorry, I sold your body to terrorists to resurrect you and I don't love you any more" would result in Shepard hating her.  She isn't going to fall apart if it happens, but the idea isn't a pleasant one.

I got the same impression as well as the perception that she might have fallen in love with whoever it is that the Shadow Broker took from her.   Its not that her moving on is unrealistic; but if would be a real dick move if Bioware didn't let Shepard try to do something about it.  I realize that they want players to take an interest in some of the new romance options; but browbeating the player who wants to be loyal isn't necessary.

Yeah I was totally getting the feeling that he was more then just a friend.

Modifié par Daeion, 02 février 2010 - 04:53 .

[Nozybidaj]

Daeion wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...

I got the same impression as well as the perception that she might have fallen in love with whoever it is that the Shadow Broker took from her.   Its not that her moving on is unrealistic; but if would be a real dick move if Bioware didn't let Shepard try to do something about it.  I realize that they want players to take an interest in some of the new romance options; but browbeating the player who wants to be loyal isn't necessary.

Yeah I was totally getting the feeling that he was more then just a friend.

I'm dreading that as well, though I hope BW doesn't completely and totally sell out the character.  Probably a lost cause to complain at this point though.

[Starscream723]

jlb524 wrote...
You're right.  If you have the 'fling' with Kelly, the Liara picture remains.  If you romance Miranda, it does not.

If you bang Miranda, then go see her after the suicide mission, she'll do her pre-mission dialogue of asking if you're still interested. You can say no, and bam - the photo is stood up again.

Just sayin'.

(You'll also get the message from Kelly at this point, if you've been flirting with her throughout)

[jlb524]

Starscream723 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
You're right.  If you have the 'fling' with Kelly, the Liara picture remains.  If you romance Miranda, it does not.

If you bang Miranda, then go see her after the suicide mission, she'll do her pre-mission dialogue of asking if you're still interested. You can say no, and bam - the photo is stood up again.

Just sayin'.

(You'll also get the message from Kelly at this point, if you've been flirting with her throughout)

Really?   I didn't know that about Miranda.  I assumed after you consummated the romance with the new character, the pic of the old LI was gone for good.  I haven't done any of the new romances.

I know about the Kelly message though.

Modifié par jlb524, 02 février 2010 - 05:06 .

[Daeion]

implodinggoat wrote...

****.  I was just talking to Samara about the homicidal murder addicted Asari called the Ardat-Yakshi  and I just got a very bad feeling about what Bioware is going to do to Liara in ME3.  (To avoid spoilers for those who have not completed Samara's loyalty mission I have not mentioned the name of the Ardat-Yakshi who appears in ME2.)

Consider the following.

1:  Liara seems to be acting differently and is demonstrating a more coldblooded nature then one would have thought her capable of.

2:  Samara said that Ardat-Yakshi don't manifest symptoms until they reach maturity and while the one Ardat-Yakshi in ME2 apparently manifested symptoms at or before the age of 40, Liara is still quite young by Asari standards.  Alternatively Asari maturity could be activated by the joining of minds involved in Asari sex and as you will recall Liara was a virgin at the start of ME1 and even if Shepard did not become her lover there's no telling exactly what she's been up to in the two years between ME1 and ME2.

3:  While it is perhaps coincidental, ME1 and ME2 have only featured two Asari who's eyes have changed color from blue to pure black.  The two Asari are Liara and the Ardat-Yakshi in ME2.  The change to pure black eyes may be a trait universal to the Asari; but then again it might not be.

4:  Only pureblood Asari who are born from a union between two Asari may manifest the genes to become an Ardat-Yakshi and as you will recall Liara is a pureblood Asari.

4:  Liara doesn't know who her real mother is.

5:  Benezia never told Liara who her mother is leading one to believe that she likely had a reason to hide this fact.

6:  All of Samara's children have manifested the Ardat-Yakshi gene.

7A:  It is possible that Samara is Liara's mother.  After she took the justicar oath Samara was duty bound not to have children (for good reason in her case).  While this seems reassuring it would also be a very good reason for Benezia to hide the identity of Liara's mother.

or alternatively

7B: During the ME1 showdown with Benezia ( who you will recall was just a wee bit power mad and evil in ME1.) she says to Shepard "You do not know the priviledge of being a mother. There is power in creation.".    Furthermore the Ardat-Yakshi in ME2 reffered to herself as the genetic future of her people.  It is thus possible that Benezia used  technology to create (clone?) Liara without Samara's participation in an attempt to produce a superior Asari.  Much like Grunt was created to be the perfect Krogan. 

8:  There is no cure for an Ardat-Yakshi.

If Liara was an Ardat-Yakshi, wouldn't those of us who romanced her in ME have been screwed?  Litteraly?

Also, didn't Samara say that of her three children, 2 had choosen to seclude themselves?  I'm not saying being an archeologist is life of glamour, but you are going to run into a lot of people, especially if you are considered an expert on the protheans.

As for the black eyes, the Asari who gives you the cypher also does the whole black eye thing, I assume it has to do with melding minds?