221 réponses à ce sujet

[Sageless Ranger]

[quote]Mabari Owns High Dragon wrote...

[quote]NoBrand0nMe wrote...

[quote]Mabari Owns High Dragon wrote...

Try playing on Insanity, then you'll need to use some strategy ; ). As for the inventory, yeh I miss it too. As for the rest of the game, I enjoy exploring the galaxy, not as much as ME1, but its still fun. I think we should all just cross our fingers for ME3. Yes there will be a 3, it says so in ME2. I also agree with the fact they're babying us. I'm tired of seeing "Press RT to launch probe" every two seconds... 
[/quote]

If they took the best of both games then they could truly create something amazing. Not like me1 isnt already..

[/quote]

I think that the ME games as a whole is amazing, heck the story alone is the best that I have seen.

Modifié par Sageless Ranger, 30 janvier 2010 - 07:18 .

[Evil Johnny 666]

Riot Ring wrote...

Soruyao wrote...

Riot Ring wrote...
@ Soruyao - I title is a way for BioWare to at least raise a brow to the thread, but instead, I got the onslaught.

Any time you create a title that is inflammatory to the developers of a game a lot of people like, you're going to get a lot of people coming in and being very short with you.   It always happens the same way.

If you create a topic with a title that encourages thoughtful discussion, you're more likely to avoid a flamewar.  You're also more likely to get a developer to read a thread.   They tend to prefer reading threads that discus an issue intelligently, rather than ones that insult them or devolve into a meaningless flamewar.

At least, thats what it seems like to me.

They can defend their developers elsewhere. And you are wrong, they tend to prefer reading topics applauding the game or any other Bioware game.

Have you noticed that fans of the series as a whole have literally talked down on the first game just so they could prove to me that ME2 is better?

Where is the intelligence in that?

Sorry but they also lock stupid topics. We're not taking down ME1, we're just pointing its problems. I LOVE ME1, it's an incredible game but it isn't perfect. ME2 does a lot of things better. But why did you create the topic in the first place if you "knew" no developper were going to read it and mindless fans defending a game they like (as if it was a sin)? Have you read most of your responses? You're the one who is acting the most childish without thinking and ****ting on everything/everyone.

[Sageless Ranger]

I've never talked down on the first game! it was amazing, but i Iike ME2 just as much!

[Riot Ring]

My first post contains an explaination for you all.

[Doom Eclipse]

i have to agree, its a good game but it is lacking in the rpg elements, spending hours looking though crap you don't need is fun..having more than 3 skills a party member, actually being able to equip armors to your party members etc etc

[Riot Ring]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Sorry but they also lock stupid topics. We're not taking down ME1, we're just pointing its problems. I LOVE ME1, it's an incredible game but it isn't perfect. ME2 does a lot of things better. But why did you create the topic in the first place if you "knew" no developper were going to read it and mindless fans defending a game they like (as if it was a sin)? Have you read most of your responses? You're the one who is acting the most childish without thinking and ****ting on everything/everyone.

Actually I did think a dev was going to read it. It was actually my hope. I am defending myself from countless biased opinions and self righteous fans. I gave my opinion long ago about the game.

Modifié par Riot Ring, 30 janvier 2010 - 07:25 .

[MythikStripes]

@Riot Ring. I just have one question. Do you like any aspects of the game? Or just hate it? Because there have to be some things that you enjoy about it. I feel that if you voiced some positives about the game you wouldn't get attacked on your opinion so much. Like i respect your opinion in that you expected something else, but i felt as if you were talking down all the people that enjoy and love this game, may not be your intention, but thats what it comes off as.

[Riot Ring]

MythikStripes wrote...

@Riot Ring. I just have one question. Do you like any aspects of the game? Or just hate it? Because there have to be some things that you enjoy about it. I feel that if you voiced some positives about the game you wouldn't get attacked on your opinion so much. Like i respect your opinion in that you expected something else, but i felt as if you were talking down all the people that enjoy and love this game, may not be your intention, but thats what it comes off as.

Actually yes.  Thank you for asking. The new planets are breathtaking, and the new characters on the scene are much more enjoyable than the first. They felt so stiff, but now there is more to the random collection of crew you collect. The armor customization is always fun to play with, and even though I havent beaten the game, the relationships that you can obtain thus far are too amusing.

[fieldmob742]

Guys, stop using a strawman argument and directing attention from his biggest point, sure ME1 didnt require that much critical thinking. Yay you proved him wrong, now read the whole post and something besides the title.



I love the combat they added, but it's not like you need to sacrifice customization and inventory just so you can have combat, you can have both. And yes, i know the inventory system was flawed in the first mass effect, but they should have improved, not removed.



All you mindless people flaming, on both sides of the argument, need to stop. You aren't solving anything and you make yourselves look like idiots. I didn't know people can read, but don't understand what they are reading if it doesn't agree with them.



The only reason we are posting these "Whine" threads, is so Bioware knows what to improve in Mass Effect 3.

[DAbov]

 I think people might be a little less hostile towards you if you didn't call people who manage to enjoy a good game "morons"

Modifié par DAbov, 30 janvier 2010 - 07:30 .

[Vandrayke]

I disagree



I think combat in ME2 is much more variable and gives you many more ways to kill enemies. And the enemies are more varied. I like using squad abilities a lot more in ME2, also, because you can combine everything differently for different enemy types. I like hitting what my crosshairs are on. And I like sniper rifles A LOT more.



I really enjoyed ME1. I just like ME2 more in every possible way.

[Evil Johnny 666]

Riot Ring wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Sorry but they also lock stupid topics. We're not taking down ME1, we're just pointing its problems. I LOVE ME1, it's an incredible game but it isn't perfect. ME2 does a lot of things better. But why did you create the topic in the first place if you "knew" no developper were going to read it and mindless fans defending a game they like (as if it was a sin)? Have you read most of your responses? You're the one who is acting the most childish without thinking and ****ting on everything/everyone.

Actually I did think a dev was going to read it. It was actually my hope. I am defending myself from countless biased opinions and self righteous fans. I gave my opinion long ago about the game.

Because you aren't biaised and self righteous. As if you had to hate the game to be intelligent. How are we biaised? Because we are Bioware "fanbois"? sorry if we just like playing good games.

[Evil ZeR0]

just dont feed the troll it will go away eventually

[Vandrayke]

also it would be nice if people would stop assuming they are more intelligent than everyone who has different taste



you don't exactly have to be Stephen Hawking to beat ME1 on all difficulty levels... you just have to spend a lot of time on it

[MythikStripes]

Riot Ring wrote...

MythikStripes wrote...

@Riot Ring. I just have one question. Do you like any aspects of the game? Or just hate it? Because there have to be some things that you enjoy about it. I feel that if you voiced some positives about the game you wouldn't get attacked on your opinion so much. Like i respect your opinion in that you expected something else, but i felt as if you were talking down all the people that enjoy and love this game, may not be your intention, but thats what it comes off as.

Actually yes.  Thank you for asking. The new planets are breathtaking, and the new characters on the scene are much more enjoyable than the first. They felt so stiff, but now there is more to the random collection of crew you collect. The armor customization is always fun to play with, and even though I havent beaten the game, the relationships that you can obtain thus far are too amusing.

YAY:wizard:. See, the game is good. the OP agreed to liking most of the game. So hopefully this will end soon because i want to get back to my second playthrough... it'll be tough considering the first playthough was on normal...
Started on normal so that i could get used to it, dont hate

[Dunemachine]

I like video games, this is a good video game. I like this game. Bioware makes good video games. I like Bioware. Let's get back to playing Bioware's good video game, shall we? :]

[Soruyao]

Okay, so I'll start: As an infiltrator, here's how I approached situations on hardcore difficulty.  (EDIT: Er, I meant insanity. Sorry!  I play on insanity for both games.)  I would pop immunity, pop marksman, and then hold my pistol trigger on enemies till they died. (I'd use some sort of squadmate CC on any snipers I might see, and I'd dodge rockets if I had to.)

This is how I approached most situations on my second and third playthrough as a ME1 infiltrator, including bosses.

In ME2, I start by using up every sniper round I have, weaving incinerates between shots if I'm fighting armor and shield drains if I'm fighting shields. Then if I run out of ammo, I switch to my heavy pistol and headshot and incinerate/shield drain depending on their defense. When their shields are down I have mordin use the ice tech ability to freeze enemies and then I blow them up with melee or headshots.

If I'm fighting barriers I stealth to get to the closest cover I can find and I take out everyone's shields with my SMGs and then switch to my heavy pistol and cryo blast headshot things to blow them up.

Against bosses, I start with the SMG and shield drain/incinerate spam to take down their defenses and then either AI hack them if there's 2 boss robots, or I snipe them or I cryo blast pistol headshot them.

For me, as an infiltrator, I play in a much more complex way than I ever did in ME1 and get rewarded for it. (I rarely die, even on insanity.)

Now, do you think you could do the same thing for us and describe some scenarios from both games and how you approach them in a more complex way in ME1 than ME2? That way we can understand where you're coming from, because as it is now, it's still a little confusing.

Modifié par Soruyao, 30 janvier 2010 - 07:42 .

[Riot Ring]

Dunemachine wrote...

I like video games, this is a good video game. I like this game. Bioware makes good video games. I like Bioware. Let's get back to playing Bioware's good video game, shall we? :]

Sounds good to me.  I have a villain to plague the universe with. I have made my point, and all of you have done the same.

90% of you disagree with me. Swell. I wasnt trying to raise an army, just let these devs know whats what. Thank you everyone for battle of the text, but I got $60 I am trying to get out of a game I dont consider to be a true sequel but a nice stand alone, no doubt.

[WillieStyle]

Soruyao wrote...

Okay, lets get this back on topic a little bit.

The OP's argument is that ME1 had more complex combat than ME2. We disagreed by pointing out that ME1 could easily be completed by spam, and that spam was the most efficient way to play through the game.

He disagreed by saying that he purposefully avoids the spam in the first game to make it play tactically.

However, by that same logic, we could purposefully avoid simplicity in this game too and create arbitrary rules to make our game more complex to reach the same end.

The only way we can create an objective understanding of how complex a game system is, we need to look at the same type of player playing both games. Lets look at three catagories of players and see how they will tend to react to each game:

For the first category lets look at the metagamers. These are the type of player who care about efficiency above all else. As time goes by, the way each metagamer plays becomes more similar to each other metagamer. This is because they are discovering the most efficient ways to maximize dps, healing, and mitigation.

We all know how metagamers played ME1. They spammed every ability at once and ran in and held the trigger until everything died. (Immunity, singularity, marksman, etc.) In ME2 we're seeing them use cover and picking different skills based on the situation. For them, ME2 is unquestionably much more complex and strategic. (Especially as a vanguard!)

If we take your example of someone who makes up rules on how to play and doesn't mind being less efficient, then they will bring complexity into any game they play, whether the game encourages it or not. Lets call them "choice gamers" for the moment, because they want to choose exactly how to play, usually for roleplay reasons.

Now, if a choice gamer decides like you, to play in a complex fashion, (lets call these "complexity choice gamers.") they will bring complexity to any game they might play. Looking at how this subgroup plays a game only shines light on how much playing in a complex fashion is punished in a game. (They might use a weak gun in multiplayer, for example, because they like the way it feels, or because it fits their character, and get mauled for it.) I feel that this category won't have any trouble adapting to ME2 because it encourages complex play. In fact, they will be more comfortable with it, because they will feel less encouraged to play the spammy way.

However, there is a group of choice gamers who choose to play in a very simple way. (Lets call them "simplicity choice gamers.") These are the people who remember ME1 in the fondest light. They are the ones who complained about the ammunition change, and they complain about losing immunity and weapon skills. They were rewarded for playing in the way they liked to play in ME1, and had an ego boost on top of it because they were able to do this on the hardest difficulty modes with no problem. (They are restricted to easier difficulties in most games because of their simple style of play.) In ME2, they are heavily encouraged to play in a more complex fashion and think tactically, because otherwise they die. Some of them just lower the difficulty, some of them l2p, and some of them turn the game off and go onto the forums to complain.

So! To sum it up, lets look at the 3 groups briefly and come to a conclusion.

Metagamers in ME1 played simply because it was efficient. They play in a more complex way in ME2 now because that is efficient.

Complexity choice gamers played in a complex way in ME1. They play in a complex way in ME2 now, because they do that in any game, because that's their style.

Simplicity choice gamers played in a simple way in ME1 and were rewarded. They try to play in a simple way in ME2 and die. Then they improve/lower difficulty/complain.

Therefore, if we define a game's complexity by how much complexity most players put into the combat, I think we can safely argue that ME2 is a more complex game than ME1 was.

I would like to say - completly without irony - that this is the best written, most intelligently argued post I have EVER read in a game forum. 
Well done good Sir.

[Bryy_Miller]

Riot Ring wrote...

NOTE: THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION ON ME2. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT, DO NOT FILL YOUR TIME WITH TRYING TO PROVE ME WRONG, IT WON'T WORK AND IT BECOMES A FLAME WAR.

1) Then you probably should not have made the thread title "BioWare and/or EA must think we are all morons". That implies you seem to speak for us.
2) This is a public forum.
3) Great job at telling people that anyone with a different opinion will get flamed.

[Riot Ring]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Riot Ring wrote...

NOTE: THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION ON ME2. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT, DO NOT FILL YOUR TIME WITH TRYING TO PROVE ME WRONG, IT WON'T WORK AND IT BECOMES A FLAME WAR.

1) Then you probably should not have made the thread title "BioWare and/or EA must think we are all morons". That implies you seem to speak for us.
2) This is a public forum.
3) Great job at telling people that anyone with a different opinion will get flamed.

The topic is dead now, but its the thought that counts. So I think you are the official winner of this thread. +10 points. 

[NorseDude]

Riot Ring wrote...

NorseDude wrote...

I'm getting really tired of telling people this, but Mass Effect 2 DOES have an inventory. It DOES have upgrades. It DOES have all the RPG bits from the first one. What it doesn't have is a huge inventory full of crap, handing you money just for the sake of making you feel rich and skills you never use. You want inventory? Go to the Normandy and research new stuff. Want upgrades? Research it. Want skills? You have far less than in the last game, but that simply means you don't have 10 ranks in medikits or hacking. This time you have only four ranks in the few skills you have, but they are far more important. No, you don't have Unity or Healing, but the Unity is a common skill that uses medikits. And just so you know, you can research it so it gets better, too. You don't have a hacking skill, but everyone can hack. And yep, you can do some research to improve it, if you want to.

And the list goes on. All in all, ME2 has everything ME1 had, but it's cleverly disguised and not as obvious and tedious. We really need a big sticky, or a NPC telling you this in-game.

lol You really believe that don't you? Thats adorable.

alright, name something ME1 has that ME2 doesn't?

[Murmillos]

The problem with these threads, is people focus too much on what was lost - or what was changed, instead of all the other advancements on what makes the game great.

The minor issue I do have with the game is the mission complete ending - and the lack of leveling up in the middle of a mission.

[NorseDude]

Who says you can't level up during a mission?

[Murmillos]

Lets just say, Its never happened to me and I'm nearing the end of my first play thru..