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Mass Effect 3: Please make my choices have concequences


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#1
yoshibb

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Now I want everyone to understand that I thought Mass Effect was a great game, but not near as good as it could’ve been.


See this is what pisses me off about Mass Effect 2 and I think Bioware really needs to hear this. What exactly did we get for saving the Rachni, Wrex, and the Council in Mass Effect 2? Absolutely nothing besides hope that they play some role in game number 3. What did we get from our original love interests in Mass Effect 2? A severe tongue lashing and pain and then some more hope they would be in the third game. Why? So the noobs who came into the second game didn't have to be punished for coming into a SEQUEL not knowing anything. So far, my choices have no consequence. 


This is wrong.


Currently I have saved 13 out of 14 squad members from both games. I am building an army of Rachni, Krogan, Quarian, Geth, The Alliance, and the Council. I want to take my badass army and crew and kick the Reapers collective ass. Why should I need to start over when I already have all this? 


Does that mean I shouldn't have to start gathering more of an army? Like maybe even batarians or other species to add to my army? No. Should I have to scrap my entire playthrough up to this point for a few noobs who come into the third game of a TRILOGY expecting to get the same rewards of those who have basically paid for work on the third game in the first place? Absolutely not, and the thought of that is a complete joke. 


Basically default Shep's team should consist of at most five crew members from ME 2 and Liara and Kaiden/Ash from ME 1. They get the benefit of the Cerberus research on the collectors ships. However, their armies should not be anywhere close to the power mine has because I put time, money, and effort into making an unstoppable force and damnit, I want to use it. 


Does that mean all the crew members need to come back? No, maybe at the end, but not now.


Legion goes to build the army of geth, Grunt works with Wrex to build the army of Krogan. Tali might go back to help the Flotilla prepare, but I could see her being recruitable again. Thane might be dead at that point so I would understand. Jack will probably leave off on her own, she doesn't seem to care that much, but you could be able to convince her to come back at a later point. Samara leaves to continue fighting as a justicar, maybe she could help in some way gathering the Asari. That leaves Garrus, Jacob, Miranda, and Mordin from Mass Effect 2 and we get Liara and Kaiden/Ash back. About the same as the default Shep but without all those added bonuses, since the rest would all be dead. 


I also think it should be a choice between siding with the Council or siding with Cerberus which may effect your chances of recruiting Kaiden/Ash, but again it's about choices mattering. 


At most there should be 3 or 4 new characters. I don't want a whole new squad, I like the ones I have. Should I come into Lord of the Rings: Return of the King expecting Tolkien to drop all the current characters and create new ones just to pander to me? No, I should be forced to go out and buy the previous installments just to know what the hell is going on.


Even in Indiana Jones 4, they brought back a number of previous characters because that's what people wanted. You build great characters. Why should fans want new ones? Add the new to the old, but make the old just as important, if not more. 


Is this going to take some work? Hell, yes, but Bioware knew full well of the consequences when the basically made it so only 1 of your 14 squad members could survive through the first two games. Take the information you've gathered from feedback, and use the best from both games to make your third. You can take the easy way out, which is basically what was done in ME 2, or you can put in the money and effort and make Mass Effect 3 one the best damn video games of all time. Make the choices matter!  


And maybe along the way you can actually make a system that makes collecting moon rocks seem interesting :)

#2
Dick Sterling

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yoshibb wrote...

What exactly did we get for saving the Rachni, Wrex, and the Council in Mass Effect 2? Absolutely nothing besides hope that they play some role in game number 3. What did we get from our original love interests in Mass Effect 2?



You answered your own question here.

#3
Schneidend

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What did you get for saving Wrex? Gee, I dunno, maybe a more organized krogan race ready to fight the reapers?

#4
yoshibb

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Schneidend wrote...

What did you get for saving Wrex? Gee, I dunno, maybe a more organized krogan race ready to fight the reapers?


Which is what? Hope that your choices matter in Mass Effect 3 and they won't completely discard his character, so that it really doesn't mean much whether he's alive or not? Do you see my point? What if in ME 3 you get that Krogan Army even if you didn't let Wrex live. Wouldn't that feel like that choice did not matter?  

We didn't get any confirmation regarding what will happen in Mass Effect 3, we just have to have faith that Bioware won't let us down. And based on how little it meant in Mass Effect 2, I can see why people might not have much faith.

#5
ArchyGuy

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It's natural to get anxiety when you dont have any control over a situation. In ME1 and ME2 you have made a plethora of decisions. In ME3 those decisions will come back with weight. If your decisions really wont matter in ME3, then feel free to lose it on BioWare for not fulfilling their promises. Until then just breathe into a paper bag until your hyper-ventilations subside.

#6
dr dANGER boy

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ArchyGuy wrote...

It's natural to get anxiety when you dont have any control over a situation. In ME1 and ME2 you have made a plethora of decisions. In ME3 those decisions will come back with weight. If your decisions really wont matter in ME3, then feel free to lose it on BioWare for not fulfilling their promises. Until then just breathe into a paper bag until your hyper-ventilations subside.


Haha.  And you would be using that bag for a long time.  It'll be around 2 years before we see ME3.  I just hope characters from ME2 don't get the airlock and a 5 min cameo like some of the ME1 ones did.  However, Bioware is great at creating awesome new characters, so I could see them dumping ME2 and having a mix of ME1 and new ME3.

#7
EJon

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yoshibb wrote...

Now I want everyone to understand that I thought Mass Effect was a great game, but not near as good as it could’ve been.


See this is what pisses me off about Mass Effect 2 and I think Bioware really needs to hear this. What exactly did we get for saving the Rachni, Wrex, and the Council in Mass Effect 2? Absolutely nothing besides hope that they play some role in game number 3. What did we get from our original love interests in Mass Effect 2? A severe tongue lashing and pain and then some more hope they would be in the third game. Why? So the noobs who came into the second game didn't have to be punished for coming into a SEQUEL not knowing anything. So far, my choices have no consequence. 


This is wrong.


Currently I have saved 13 out of 14 squad members from both games. I am building an army of Rachni, Krogan, Quarian, Geth, The Alliance, and the Council. I want to take my badass army and crew and kick the Reapers collective ass. Why should I need to start over when I already have all this? 


Does that mean I shouldn't have to start gathering more of an army? Like maybe even batarians or other species to add to my army? No. Should I have to scrap my entire playthrough up to this point for a few noobs who come into the third game of a TRILOGY expecting to get the same rewards of those who have basically paid for work on the third game in the first place? Absolutely not, and the thought of that is a complete joke. 


Basically default Shep's team should consist of at most five crew members from ME 2 and Liara and Kaiden/Ash from ME 1. They get the benefit of the Cerberus research on the collectors ships. However, their armies should not be anywhere close to the power mine has because I put time, money, and effort into making an unstoppable force and damnit, I want to use it. 


Does that mean all the crew members need to come back? No, maybe at the end, but not now.


Legion goes to build the army of geth, Grunt works with Wrex to build the army of Krogan. Tali might go back to help the Flotilla prepare, but I could see her being recruitable again. Thane might be dead at that point so I would understand. Jack will probably leave off on her own, she doesn't seem to care that much, but you could be able to convince her to come back at a later point. Samara leaves to continue fighting as a justicar, maybe she could help in some way gathering the Asari. That leaves Garrus, Jacob, Miranda, and Mordin from Mass Effect 2 and we get Liara and Kaiden/Ash back. About the same as the default Shep but without all those added bonuses, since the rest would all be dead. 


I also think it should be a choice between siding with the Council or siding with Cerberus which may effect your chances of recruiting Kaiden/Ash, but again it's about choices mattering. 


At most there should be 3 or 4 new characters. I don't want a whole new squad, I like the ones I have. Should I come into Lord of the Rings: Return of the King expecting Tolkien to drop all the current characters and create new ones just to pander to me? No, I should be forced to go out and buy the previous installments just to know what the hell is going on.


Even in Indiana Jones 4, they brought back a number of previous characters because that's what people wanted. You build great characters. Why should fans want new ones? Add the new to the old, but make the old just as important, if not more. 


Is this going to take some work? Hell, yes, but Bioware knew full well of the consequences when the basically made it so only 1 of your 14 squad members could survive through the first two games. Take the information you've gathered from feedback, and use the best from both games to make your third. You can take the easy way out, which is basically what was done in ME 2, or you can put in the money and effort and make Mass Effect 3 one the best damn video games of all time. Make the choices matter!  


And maybe along the way you can actually make a system that makes collecting moon rocks seem interesting :)


I agree completely with you. I hope they don't pull the same crap with ME3. We should be rewarded for sticking to the franchise throughout the trilogy, not getting a watered down game to cater to people who didn't buy the first one. My surviving squad from ME2 had better be in ME3. If they give us a new squad, then they're going to lose a lot of fans and support. I like your comparison with LoTR. It makes excellent sense. You can't come in the middle of the trilogy, or the end of the trilogy and expect to be brought up to speed. Bioware had better understand that when it comes to ME3. We deserve it, we've waited for years for this - while the people who got ME2 fresh didn't have to wait that long. The long term fans need to be the main focus, not the new comers.

#8
MMMarc0

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Any real game developer with a strong following will do their best to reward their fans' loyalty, but in the end, they're still a business. Whether we like it or not, every business has the goal of making more money, and the best way to do that is to bring in more customers. How do you do that with a video game franchise? Make the new player experience as accessible to everyone as possible. The very worst thing they could do would be to alienate new customers and punish them for not already being fans.



I'm hoping that the success of ME2 will allow them to take even bigger chances with the third.

#9
mrs_anomaly

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MMMarc0 wrote...

Any real game developer with a strong following will do their best to reward their fans' loyalty, but in the end, they're still a business. Whether we like it or not, every business has the goal of making more money, and the best way to do that is to bring in more customers. How do you do that with a video game franchise? Make the new player experience as accessible to everyone as possible. The very worst thing they could do would be to alienate new customers and punish them for not already being fans.

I'm hoping that the success of ME2 will allow them to take even bigger chances with the third.


I understand what the OP is complaining about and your POV as well.
I feel somewhat in the middle. I was expecting, yes, a big payoff for making certain choices and taking the direction I did in ME. I was totally upset that I only got to see Kaiden for a few moments and he was pissed off at me to boot. 
Why can't bioware make a 'you've not played ME or ME2' option for newbs, and let the veterans import their previous Shepards that have already made choices with consequence to how ME3 turns out?
I am talking about something far more developed than what we have in ME2 for newbs or brand new Sheps we might start up..
There SHOULD be a way to do this IMO. But I've heard rumors around here that they want to push ME3 out asap and with a smaller time gap between releases...
I'm crossing my fingers and making a prayer..please please Bioware don't screw us over!

#10
DarthCaine

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Knowing BioWare, your choices from ME1 and ME2 will have little to no consequences (it's the same with every BioWare game)

#11
Kalfear

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EJon wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

Now I want everyone to understand that I thought Mass Effect was a great game, but not near as good as it could’ve been.


See this is what pisses me off about Mass Effect 2 and I think Bioware really needs to hear this. What exactly did we get for saving the Rachni, Wrex, and the Council in Mass Effect 2? Absolutely nothing besides hope that they play some role in game number 3. What did we get from our original love interests in Mass Effect 2? A severe tongue lashing and pain and then some more hope they would be in the third game. Why? So the noobs who came into the second game didn't have to be punished for coming into a SEQUEL not knowing anything. So far, my choices have no consequence. 


This is wrong.


Currently I have saved 13 out of 14 squad members from both games. I am building an army of Rachni, Krogan, Quarian, Geth, The Alliance, and the Council. I want to take my badass army and crew and kick the Reapers collective ass. Why should I need to start over when I already have all this? 


Does that mean I shouldn't have to start gathering more of an army? Like maybe even batarians or other species to add to my army? No. Should I have to scrap my entire playthrough up to this point for a few noobs who come into the third game of a TRILOGY expecting to get the same rewards of those who have basically paid for work on the third game in the first place? Absolutely not, and the thought of that is a complete joke. 


Basically default Shep's team should consist of at most five crew members from ME 2 and Liara and Kaiden/Ash from ME 1. They get the benefit of the Cerberus research on the collectors ships. However, their armies should not be anywhere close to the power mine has because I put time, money, and effort into making an unstoppable force and damnit, I want to use it. 


Does that mean all the crew members need to come back? No, maybe at the end, but not now.


Legion goes to build the army of geth, Grunt works with Wrex to build the army of Krogan. Tali might go back to help the Flotilla prepare, but I could see her being recruitable again. Thane might be dead at that point so I would understand. Jack will probably leave off on her own, she doesn't seem to care that much, but you could be able to convince her to come back at a later point. Samara leaves to continue fighting as a justicar, maybe she could help in some way gathering the Asari. That leaves Garrus, Jacob, Miranda, and Mordin from Mass Effect 2 and we get Liara and Kaiden/Ash back. About the same as the default Shep but without all those added bonuses, since the rest would all be dead. 


I also think it should be a choice between siding with the Council or siding with Cerberus which may effect your chances of recruiting Kaiden/Ash, but again it's about choices mattering. 


At most there should be 3 or 4 new characters. I don't want a whole new squad, I like the ones I have. Should I come into Lord of the Rings: Return of the King expecting Tolkien to drop all the current characters and create new ones just to pander to me? No, I should be forced to go out and buy the previous installments just to know what the hell is going on.


Even in Indiana Jones 4, they brought back a number of previous characters because that's what people wanted. You build great characters. Why should fans want new ones? Add the new to the old, but make the old just as important, if not more. 


Is this going to take some work? Hell, yes, but Bioware knew full well of the consequences when the basically made it so only 1 of your 14 squad members could survive through the first two games. Take the information you've gathered from feedback, and use the best from both games to make your third. You can take the easy way out, which is basically what was done in ME 2, or you can put in the money and effort and make Mass Effect 3 one the best damn video games of all time. Make the choices matter!  


And maybe along the way you can actually make a system that makes collecting moon rocks seem interesting :)


I agree completely with you. I hope they don't pull the same crap with ME3. We should be rewarded for sticking to the franchise throughout the trilogy, not getting a watered down game to cater to people who didn't buy the first one. My surviving squad from ME2 had better be in ME3. If they give us a new squad, then they're going to lose a lot of fans and support. I like your comparison with LoTR. It makes excellent sense. You can't come in the middle of the trilogy, or the end of the trilogy and expect to be brought up to speed. Bioware had better understand that when it comes to ME3. We deserve it, we've waited for years for this - while the people who got ME2 fresh didn't have to wait that long. The long term fans need to be the main focus, not the new comers.


LOL well ME2 wasnt much of a rreward for me but I also agree with OP!

I was disappointed that you were so renegade in the non ME1 saved game game but that just makes the OPs point even more important, reward players for being the hero and what not and making the good and hard choices in ME1 and 2.

Personally im not holding my breath, ME Bioware seems more interested in shooter mechanics then RPG elements carrying over.

#12
CSM31

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DarthCaine wrote...

Knowing BioWare, your choices from ME1 and ME2 will have little to no consequences (it's the same with every BioWare game)


I am not so sure about this as the loading scenes do warn of dire consequences in ME3 based on your decisions in ME2

An obvious one is Legion, if you give him to Cerberus then you will not do the loyalty quest resulting in the "friendly" Geth following the Reapers due to being reprogrammed. If on the other hand you do the quest then all the "heretic Geth" will become "friendly Geth" or be destroyed meaning that they could be allies in the battle against the Reapers.

Similarly if you saved the Rachni Queen in ME1 it is implied that they will aid you against the Reapers in ME3.

I have a suspicion if ME2 is anything to go by that the default ME3 game will have a dead Shepard and whatever Bioware comes up with to solve it (Clone?, Conrad Verner having reconstructive surgery and Genetic alterations to become Shepard?) and it being almost impossible to get a "perfect ending"

While if we import a character which we have had since ME1 then it will be a lot easier assuming we have made smart choices and not stuck to a straightforward Paragon or Renegade path i.e. we may have had to save the Rachni and the Council in ME1 BUT have kept the Collector base at the end of ME2

#13
DarthCaine

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CSM31 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Knowing BioWare, your choices from ME1 and ME2 will have little to no consequences (it's the same with every BioWare game)


I am not so sure about this as the loading scenes do warn of dire consequences in ME3 based on your decisions in ME2

Hah, do you seriosly still believe BioWare's BS even after ME2 !?
Remember, how they talked that the council choice and your LI choice will have big consiqences in ME2?
There's 2 rules about Bioware:
1. They ALWAYS overhype their games
2. There's ALWAYS little to no consiquences
I learned a long time ago not to trust BioWare. They make great stories, but no consiquences
Even though this is true, I love BioWare games

Modifié par DarthCaine, 31 janvier 2010 - 09:41 .