454 réponses à ce sujet

[Lozamatoz]

infalible wrote...

Mass Effect is Bioware trying to create a new audience for their games.

There are those of us who have been around for years. We're the people who got orgasmic over Dragon Age. We're used to a far more traditional and pure take on RPGs from Bioware. I myself have been a Bioware fan since the original Baldur's Gate. I was brought up on titles like Eye of the Beholder. I played proper RPGs exclusively until about 3 years ago, when I moved into other genres of gaming. There are a lot of people who are similar, especially on these boards.

It's not surprising that there is a lot of polarisation on the ME2 forum that wasn't present on the ME forum. ME2 is something new and it is - sadly for those who would say otherwise - a far simpler formula that Bioware have used before. ME2 is clearly aimed at the big console gamer segment. It's aimed at fans of games like Gears of War and Halo. It's in that segment. That's where Bioware wanted it to land and I think it did a pretty good job. It's certainly carved them a brand new and large set of fans on that platform. When you consider that up until this point most of the people here have been PC gamers as Biowares attempt at cracking the console market were a tad lacklustre (commercially, not critically before anyone mentions KotoR). Mass Effect has done it for them. Now they are pulling in a new crowd that clearly want something different for their RPGs that I and a lot of others do and it's causing a very clear rift in the community.

What I accept - and I think everyone else should accept - is that Mass Effect 2 was not designed for the Baldur's Gate -type of RPG fans. It was designed for a new breed of fans. And as such it's never going to be the RPG experience we want.

I myself am fed up of being spoon fed traditional fantasy RPG after traditional fantasy RPG at the moment, which is why I'm a little disappointed by ME. I was hoping for the definitive sci-fi RPG in the traditional sense and that's not what I got. I accept that my expectations were probably unrealistic now. However I would say this: if another game dev tries to deliver another fantasy-based traditional RPG to market, I will personally beat them to death with a rusty router. I really am fed up of the fantasy genre right now. I've had enough of Elves, Orcs, Zombies, Dwarfs, Giants, Demons etc etc so on and so forth. In fact I've taken to playing Warcraft 3 in single player mode, just so I can commit genocide against said races.

Meh.

I know what you are saying. There are traditional RPGs (tonnes of quests, loot), dungeon crawlers / hack n slash( TONNES of loot, lots of bad guys), and modern RPGs (more cinematic experience, less loot, less quests).

The thing is, ME1 was NEVER a traditional RPG which is why I fail to understand how a fan of ME1 could be so disappointed with the game. The only things they took out was a standard inventory/ loot system, the Mako and elevators. ME1 was always going for a breakthrough in RPG gaming, it wanted to be cinematic, it wanted to have mostly dialogue, it wanted to introduce 3rd person shooter action to the genre. So please, why does everyone suddenly want Mass Effect to be more like Diablo?!  If you were expecting a blast from the past, you weren't following the previews of the game, or your brain didn't actually recall what ME1 was like.

P.s. If Mass Effect was like Baldurs Gate I would hate it. I I love Baldurs Gate, and I love Mass Effect, and I want them to stay exactly the way they are, two totally different experiences. Did you not get your old school RPG fix with Dragon Age? 

[bconk55]

infalible wrote...

Mass Effect is Bioware trying to create a new audience for their games.

There are those of us who have been around for years. We're the people who got orgasmic over Dragon Age. We're used to a far more traditional and pure take on RPGs from Bioware. I myself have been a Bioware fan since the original Baldur's Gate. I was brought up on titles like Eye of the Beholder. I played proper RPGs exclusively until about 3 years ago, when I moved into other genres of gaming. There are a lot of people who are similar, especially on these boards.

It's not surprising that there is a lot of polarisation on the ME2 forum that wasn't present on the ME forum. ME2 is something new and it is - sadly for those who would say otherwise - a far simpler formula that Bioware have used before. ME2 is clearly aimed at the big console gamer segment. It's aimed at fans of games like Gears of War and Halo. It's in that segment. That's where Bioware wanted it to land and I think it did a pretty good job. It's certainly carved them a brand new and large set of fans on that platform. When you consider that up until this point most of the people here have been PC gamers as Biowares attempt at cracking the console market were a tad lacklustre (commercially, not critically before anyone mentions KotoR). Mass Effect has done it for them. Now they are pulling in a new crowd that clearly want something different for their RPGs that I and a lot of others do and it's causing a very clear rift in the community.

What I accept - and I think everyone else should accept - is that Mass Effect 2 was not designed for the Baldur's Gate -type of RPG fans. It was designed for a new breed of fans. And as such it's never going to be the RPG experience we want.

I myself am fed up of being spoon fed traditional fantasy RPG after traditional fantasy RPG at the moment, which is why I'm a little disappointed by ME. I was hoping for the definitive sci-fi RPG in the traditional sense and that's not what I got. I accept that my expectations were probably unrealistic now. However I would say this: if another game dev tries to deliver another fantasy-based traditional RPG to market, I will personally beat them to death with a rusty router. I really am fed up of the fantasy genre right now. I've had enough of Elves, Orcs, Zombies, Dwarfs, Giants, Demons etc etc so on and so forth. In fact I've taken to playing Warcraft 3 in single player mode, just so I can commit genocide against said races.

Meh.

I see where you're coming from, as I come from a similar gaming background, but this is a response that I would have understood for the ME1 launch, and that just seems a few years too late for ME2. I guess that is what I don't understand. ME1 was never a traditional RPG. More over, the elements that have changed from ME1 to ME2 are the ones that were largely tacked on (the loot system that really had no meaning other than to be another set of menus). I can understand the desire for the RPG side to be fleshed out, but there certainly wasn't anything lost. All that really occured was the change from a subpar combat experience to a rather good one, and one that actually has more party control (a largely RPG element) than before.

[HaloKT]

Love the game. Three things bug me out however:



1.) The UI and/or handling thereof was better in ME1 (PC version). It's great for consoles I guess, but I can't open any windows with hotkeys? Really? I find it pretty hard to keep track of shields/health. That was definitely handled better in ME1 IMO



2.) Team mates are soo quiet compared to ME1. In Me1 you'd have your team mates adding comments to a lot of conversations. Most hilariously done by Wrex. In ME2 it only happens in very few convos. And as has been stated by someone else above, in some situations (like on the Krogan planet) it does create a sort of detached atmosphere. Like your team isn't even there with you.



3.) Drastically reduced romance options. And yes, this is one of the major flaws for me. I can adapt to the new and (un)improved UI. I can live with silent team mates. The game's still great. But no romance option apart from a ONS with my secretary? And I don't even get the achievement for that? Or at least an achievement for not cheating on your ME1 LI? And to hear that you can actually romance Tali as a male, after I've been swooning over her in ME1 all along? That's cruel

[pilot2fly]

funny how the OP says the majority are disappointed, yet the MAJORITY of replies defend the game. did it ever occur to you that most of the supporters (99.99% of the 2 million copies sold in 3 days) are playing the game and not complaining? and i to am loving this game. i just REALLY want the hammerhead!

[Aynata]

I'm with you, Lozamatoz!

[Bio Addict]

Sweet Jesus I can't wait for more ME2 fans to finish up theire initial play throughs and come back to drown out these complainers forever.



Bottom line is this: If you don't like ME2, fine you have a right to your opinion but nobody with a brain can argue that the majority are disapointed. This game has sold 2 million copies in the first week, I'll say that again 2. Million. Copies in the first week, the masses are hardly disapointed.

[Thompson family]

The whiners are always the loudest on forums. Never fails. If whining indicated anything, the Total War series would have died after "Rome: Total War."

[LuPoM]

rabidrabbit2727 wrote...

Maybe because the people who love the game are busy playing it, rather than complaining on these forums.

Exactly.. I can say that I'm loving every single bit of Mass Effect 2, even if I am a purist RPG lover, ME2 is just unique in his kind and it's great the way it is.. in every aspect!
So.. as rabidrabbit said.. let's get back to play the game, since I have nothing to complain about

[SolaFide03]

General rule is that those that dislike something are more likely to make their case than those that are satisfied.  Forums provide a vehicle for that and nothing new here.

I am still waiting for my copy of the CE of ME2 from Amazon (should arrive today).

For what it's worth, not every RPG needs to be a skin of Dragon Age.  I absolutely love Dragon Age as a more PC - centric, classic RPG with alot more control.  However just finished ME1 (DA:O and getting an importable save game) and enjoyed that just as much.

From what I've seen of ME2, looks still to be excellent writting again from Bioware.  However the PC hotkeys (or lack there of) will be interesting.

Modifié par SolaFide03, 30 janvier 2010 - 09:24 .

[Zugnokorr]

Yeah, game forums are a poor way to determine who like the game.

[Johnson45]

OP, you can't be serious? Most are dissapointed? If most are dissapointed then how come the majority of the forum population are playing the game instead of posting on here right now. The whiners will be gone in a month or two, most likely so will you.

[NickolasDS]

Yarg, shooting was begging for attention in ME1. I couldn't help but find my goals of unlocking Xbox achievements more attractive than the combat system. I don't even like shooters that much to really care, but the game-play needed this change. I can see Bioware fixing some things, maybe some more abilities and a little more upgrading, but I would rather be put to the challenge during a fight than feel like a immortal; and all because I bought that awesome armor with those special upgrades. **sigh**

[keginkc]

I don't know a person in real life who doesn't think it's the greatest game ever. The only people anywhere that I've encountered so far who are even remotely disappointed are trolling the bioware boards.

[Bio Addict]

Another thing: I don't think most ME2 fans, myself included, would mind the complaint threads if most of them weren't so damned condescending.



Yes, I enjoy real time shooting



No, I don't like having to wade through a pile of junk at the inventory screen



These things do not make me less intelligent.

[TheSeventhJedi]

rabidrabbit2727 wrote...

Maybe because the people who love the game are busy playing it, rather than complaining on these forums.

This.  Sorry you didn't like it, but I think the reviews and dollars have spoken louder than you ever could.

[EmperorRaveno]

If i wasnt too busy playing DAO and ME2, id kick the ass of whoever said this game is dissapointing (you must have bought a different game cuse ME2 pwns).



End of and back to my games.

[armass]

I don't find anything wrong with the combat. Compared to it me1 combat feels clunky and slow. And what would you have wanted really? more stats? abilities? Same inventory displaying 9 different types of weapon with color swaps and ammunitions with numbers after them and you have to sell all the time, cause the inventory comes full? the combat to be like in kotor? That would not work.

Really they did an amazing job with this game, but some people seem to be so much slaves of game 1 that they dont want any change at all. And they keep complaining after all they did to the fans. Really people, this is your thanks after all this? For shame! If you think you can make it all in better way, start making a resume and apply to Bioware so you can make the next game.

Modifié par armass, 30 janvier 2010 - 09:39 .

[Michale_Jackson]

how was ME1's combat clunky and slow? It worked fine for me. There's not much I like yet in ME2 except they've done a few minor enhancements to detail throughout the game.



it's like some of you guys need to play ME1 and ME2 side by side, to see how ME2 is missing a whole lot everything that made Mass Effect, Mass Effect.

[infalible]

bconk55 wrote...

I see where you're coming from, as I come from a similar gaming background, but this is a response that I would have understood for the ME1 launch, and that just seems a few years too late for ME2. I guess that is what I don't understand. ME1 was never a traditional RPG. More over, the elements that have changed from ME1 to ME2 are the ones that were largely tacked on (the loot system that really had no meaning other than to be another set of menus). I can understand the desire for the RPG side to be fleshed out, but there certainly wasn't anything lost. All that really occured was the change from a subpar combat experience to a rather good one, and one that actually has more party control (a largely RPG element) than before.

I don't think it is too late for my comments because they aren't applicable to the first game; I liked Mass Effect 1 a lot more than Mass Effect 2. Mass Effect was certainly a step toward simplifying the traditional RPG but it made very few of the concessions that - and was far more of a compromise than - Mass Effect 2 has so openly made, which is why my complaint is coming now. I can see what they are trying to do and personally I thought they had done it with Mass Effect 1 and need go no further than they did. Mass Effect 1 - whilst certainly a step away from tradition - was tolerable from my perspective, even enjoyable; the dialogue with Sovereign made for a brilliant and memorable encounter in the game. The elements that I feel are missing or those that I feel are overly dumbed down in Mass Effect 2 were present in Mass Effect 1 just simplified. I thought the line would be drawn there and that a good balance had been made. It felt more like a spiritual successor to KotoR.

Move forward to Mass Effect 2. The friendly compromise that was Mass Effect 1 has turned into a  horrid concession with Mass Effect 2 that I really don't think should have been made. I can understand the simplification of more detailed RPG elements in order to accommodate an audience that is largely not used to traditional RPGs but to almost remove them entirely? It baffles me. Take the skill system in Mass Effect 2 for example and compare it to Mass Effect 1. In Mass Effect 1 there wasn't any meat to it but it was large enough and obvious enough to keep me satisfied with the compromise. Mass Effect 2 comes along and replaces an already simple stat system with an almost-totally pointless stat system. And I would also like to point out that the party control elements you are talking about as if they were additions in Mass Effect 2 were present in the PC version of Mass Effect 1. They certainly weren't user friendly and the default key mapping for positioning party members, recalling them, telling them to stay put, selecting weapons, using abilities etc just baffled me; whoever came up with that system should be shot. Mass Effect 2 did refine it and make it more intuitive but it added nothing to it as it was all already there. And yes the combat system is enjoyable but it's enjoyable as a TPS combat system, not as a traditional RPG combat system. I'm a pause and cast kinda guy; Dragon Age had that system and I personally think that Mass Effect 1 was nearer to having that system than Mass Effect 2... and I liked it. Was too simply I admit and the game felt quite easy most of the time but the combat system itself wasn't at fault, just the implementation. I very rarely have to pause in ME2; it's needed in some cases but largely the combat has been designed to flow in a similar way to Gears of War.   

I'm not saying that they SHOULD make Mass Effect more like a traditional RPG. I realise what they are doing with the ME trilogy. It's the product of the experimenting they did with KotoR and Jade Empire. It's Bioware trying to forge another dedicated fan base in the console arena. PC gamers aren't on their list of priorities where Mass Effect is concerned. We're on the side lines. However we have Dragon Age, of which the reverse is true; it's designed for PC gamers and console gamers are considered to be a lesser priority. Two distinct franchises for the two distinct platforms that Bioware is commanding... and two distinct approaches to the RPG genre that meets the needs of the general audiences on those two platforms. Simple. I accept all of that and realise it is a brilliant idea.

Doesn't stop me from praying and hoping that one day I'll get the Mass Effect that I want ;-) You never know; maybe one day Bioware will develop a few Dragon Age games with console gamers in mind and a few Mass Effect games with PC gamers in mind. I'd love that :-P Doubt it'll happen though. Can ignorantly dream however :-P

[infalible]

And as an furtherance: from what I can tell there are a few people in here that are intent on using the thread for a constructive purpose: friendly discussion and debate regarding two alternate but equally valid opinions about the game.

The rest of you seem intent on simply slandering any who doesn't share your opinion on Mass Effect 2.

The latter part is inconsiderate and totally pointless, makes you look like a total arse and diminishes any value the few of us actually discussing this can get from the thread. Just because the Internet grants you anonymity does not mean you've been awarded a license to be an antisocial waste of air.

Modifié par infalible, 30 janvier 2010 - 09:54 .

[Sageless Ranger]

Give the forums a month, all those that are playing it will be on here, and the haters will be gone, not againest constructive criticism, but people be crazy.

[Indie Thompson]

rabidrabbit2727 wrote...

Maybe because the people who love the game are busy playing it, rather than complaining on these forums.

Ding-ding-ding ! WE HAVE A WINNER!

Come on, game is great. I have had the game for 3 days and i am 33 hours in the game.
So i really havent found time to go on any forums or anything.

[Schneidend]

Skullandbonesmember says...
Most are disappointed at the very least

Painfully obvious troll, but I'll consider it a success given the number of pages.

[Spaceweed10]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

In comparison to the ones who are content with the game, the majority that not only post here but on other forums are not happy with the result of ME2. Hopefully Bioware will take note that alienating their existing fanbase to "bring in players that didn't play the original", in other words, shooter fans, is not a smart move, whether it's from an ethics standpoint or business.

You talk absolute B/S, sunshine.

[4lex_7ru]

Bio Addict wrote...

Another thing: I don't think most ME2 fans, myself included, would mind the complaint threads if most of them weren't so damned condescending.

Yes, I enjoy real time shooting

No, I don't like having to wade through a pile of junk at the inventory screen

These things do not make me less intelligent.

Agreed, while I do think that they could have done the costumes/weapons a little better I still think they did a great job of improving some of the weaknesses that ME1 was filled with. Is ME2 a perfect game? No, of course it isn't however in my opinion it is a great game and a great RPG.