454 réponses à ce sujet

[WarlordThor]

sirandar wrote...

Yes there are things missing from the game and yes that sucks BUT

Better to leave stuff out than do a 1/2 ass job of it.  

Most of what they left out I don't realy miss.

Could Bioware have made a the RPG elements better in ME2?  ....... Yes
Could ME1 be vastly improved on? ........ Yes

Are they going to? ........ No, because they don't need to. RPG is hard labour intensive stuff and they don't need to because ME2 is head and shoulders over anything else I have played.

Did ME2 execute well what they chose to put into the game  ... story, character and cinematic feel?  YES (except perhaps biotics)

That is the best you can hope for these days.

I love RPGs and hated Dragon Age,  too confined and tedious.  Good RPGs are very hard to make and expensive.

Bioware did a good job of focusing on what was important for playing excitement, character and plot.  Sure they could have added more RPG elements and even some decent puzzles aspects.  They didn't.  The last game I played that had decent puzzle aspects was Myst Revelation, and that was a long time ago.

ME2 and ME1 could have been masterpieces if they had compelling RPG and puzzle elements.  Imagine archeological investigation Protean ruins to actually figure out their technology, like you did in parts of Myst Revelation.

It just can't happen because the bar of the average gamer is so low that spending $$$ to please the few who like puzzles and RPG is not going to make $$$. 

ME1 wasn't an RPG either ..... it wasn't even close.  It was still a great game.  It was a graphic movie with you at the helm.  Thats what it is.  The last RPG was Morrowind and perhaps DA (barely).  There will probably not be many more.  Too hard to make well.

Do you like plot, cinematic style or RPG.  Choose 2 if you are very lucky.

Gaming used to be an art .... now it is a business .....  knowing that it is lucky that even games as good as ME1 and 2 come out.

Personally I salute them ........

It's funny because Dragon Age was an amazing rpg, and game, and ME2 is lacking in both. The story in ME2 is written like a teenage novel, with horrible interactions between characters that do not seem realistic. How you found Dragon Age confined, with the multiple side quests and areas that you wern't linearly forced into, I have no idea. The linearity of ME2 is enough to make one want to cry,

[AlanC9]

NoBrand0nMe wrote...

Agree with the op..Fps fanboys that have never played a bioware game until now need to go back to COD or some other shooter..

So you're a Bioware fan, eh? Very interesting post coming from someone with a join date of January 26th. Sock puppet much?

[LuPoM]

tibbsey wrote...

I bought ME2 expecting a sequel to ME1. Unfortunately, to me, it seems like a whole new game (that just so happens to follow on with the story).

Before I make my list, I've only got up to Omega so far, so I'm basing some of the below on what I have read on these forums.

1) Movement is different (no crouch button, different cover button/system), can't turn AT ALL during storm (do like that you can do it out of combat now though).
2) Interacting is different (different interact button, different "there's something to interact with over here" system - hard to notice where the thing is sometimes)
3) Weapons are different (no finding new guns/upgrades/armour, just base weapons that you upgrade)
4) Menu system is different (no dedicated Journal/Map/Inventory/Codex buttons), no scroll wheel in anything it seems either which makes browsing tedious.
5) Squad HUD is changed (looks like they've tried to streamline it by making the weapons options popups, but it just looks cramped and a bit poo)
6) Space exploration is different (no landing on different planets and exploring (from what I've read), this was one of the things I loved about ME1, you could get out and about in the galaxy!)


Seems to me that most of the game is different, and in my opinion, not the good kind of different.

Will keep playing for the storyline, but ME2 could have been so much better if it had been more like ME1.

Sorry if I quoted you but, besides the personal preferrence things (3 5 and 6) there are 3 things wrong..

1) When you storm (sprint in ME1) and turn, you turn slightly less the same amount as you did in ME1.

2) You don't have anymore a big fat circle (with the tooltip ontop of the screen) but a thinner square, or better the 4 corners borders of a thinner square, which gets thicker when you point it.. along with the tooltip ontop, it's still visible and (thing that I like) it obstructs less the environment than the ME1 one.

3) Even if I prefer the Inventory a la Baldur's Gate/Dragon Age, ME1 was a pure mess, expecially to manage it.. and personally I find it more rpgish this way, that you have to go around, buying plans, finding them, looking for upgrades, new models to reproduce and so on.. The armor thing is the only one that has a bigger change, but atleast for you, you still "collect more pieces" which you can choose to wear instead of others (combining different stats) and personalyze the overall look (markings/colour/material)

4) Wrong.. when I press Esc in game, the menu is IDENTICAL to ME1.. there are no direct keybindings for them (you referred to that?) and no mouse wheel support makes them less "scroll friendly" but I don't remember ME1 Codex to be scrollable with the mouse wheel sincerely oO

5) Personal opinion of yours.. I find it better this way.. "optimized" to give you a better view to where to aim.. without having that lots of stuff all around your screen!

6) Space exploration in ME1 is nice untill you start screaming at the Mako, but not too much at it.. but at the crazyness of the "planet areas" developers.. mines in strange places.. bumps everywhere with the mako flying around or falling off a cliff or unable to pass that "mountain" between you and your marker.. ANNOYING after a while.. I prefer 10000 times scanning planets right now (I find it more rpgish to scan a planet not just hitting "Scan" but actually scanning it and send probes to investigate the values you get) and have Landing missions tied to the scanning, where you identify a distress call or something else and then start a mission.. plus there's a plus on exploration.. so keep an eye around

In the end.. I find it hard to sustain the arguing about the hypothetical downsides that ME2 has.. even if I'm a big fan of Baldur's Gate (replaying it every now and then since it came out), and Dragon Age too.. Mass Effect 2 just stands on its own place, and it's just the refined gameplay of what Mass Effect prototyped ^^ (in my opinion ofc )

Edit: About ME2 story.. I'm finding it AMAZING since now.. expecially all the big and numerous referrals to the first one, expecially about the choices you did (if you import your ME1 Shepard, and even BDtS counts in ^^).. its' extraordinary.. but I won't tell anything, else it'll be a *spoiler*

Modifié par LuPoM, 31 janvier 2010 - 01:19 .

[WarlordThor]

AlanC9 wrote...

NoBrand0nMe wrote...

Agree with the op..Fps fanboys that have never played a bioware game until now need to go back to COD or some other shooter..

So you're a Bioware fan, eh? Very interesting post coming from someone with a join date of January 26th. Sock puppet much?

You realize these forums haven't been out that long? And it wasn't until recently that mass effect was added to them. Not to mention you don't need to be a forum member to be a fan. But otherwise, your logic is flawless.

[AlanC9]

WarlordThor wrote...

You realize these forums haven't been out that long? And it wasn't until recently that mass effect was added to them. Not to mention you don't need to be a forum member to be a fan. But otherwise, your logic is flawless.

I'm playing the probabilities here. It's possible he did what I did, and deliberately stayed away from these forums because of too many spoilers in the previews (hence my own rather late join date, though if you look at the old ME1 forums you'll find me there). It's possible he's been a fan forever, and was only motivated to join these forums because of the offensive awfulness of ME2. I just don't think these are particularly likely.

[WillieStyle]

Well I for one am loving ME2. I'm having just as much fun playing it as I had playing DA:O or BG2 for the first time. Maybe even more.



And I love the changes they made to the game. I think the inventory changes in particular just might revolutionize RPGs. Do I really have to pick up 27 shortswords of suck +2 everytime I complete a dungeon? The upgrade/research system seems to capture all the benefits of inventories without the hassle and tedium.



Again good job Bioware.



-Signed,

-Noob Halo fan who just heard about RPGs yesterday, and loves to brown-nose Bioware.

[WhiskeyKnight]

I'm a longtime Bioware fan. I've played every game they've ever made. And I can tell you that I am not disappointed in the slightest. In fact, I consider Mass Effect 2 to be the company's greatest achievement yet.

Modifié par WhiskeyKnight, 31 janvier 2010 - 01:31 .

[AlanC9]

WillieStyle wrote...

And I love the changes they made to the game. I think the inventory changes in particular just might revolutionize RPGs. Do I really have to pick up 27 shortswords of suck +2 everytime I complete a dungeon? The upgrade/research system seems to capture all the benefits of inventories without the hassle and tedium.

This is actually a very good point. Traditional CRPG inventory systems are pretty stupid, though I guess they work well as pellets of rat chow to keep players navigating the maze. (I say CRPG because many PnP rulesets don't have any need of loot.). I thought inventory wasn't worth having in ME (because Shepard should have had our best gear from the get-go), but maybe I wasn't thinking big enough. Maybe CRPG inventory is a tool whose time has passed.

Modifié par AlanC9, 31 janvier 2010 - 01:46 .

[NoUserNameHere]

The mistake here is assuming that a change to the status quo automatically denotes inferior quality.



The case can easily be made that these changes allow for a game that feels a lot less "clunky" if that makes any sense. Surely nobody would take ME1s cover system over that offered in two.



Mind you, the switch to ammo does seem rather illogical, even if the "thermal clip" thing is a good attempt at a pseudo-retcon. However, having unlimited ammo would be game-breaking if paired with a cover system that actually works well and the improved biotic abilities. I wouldn't suggest going back to the old system so much as just amending the current one.

[MassEffect762]

I haven't beaten it yet, it's a mixed bag so far.



Give and take, HATE and LOVE. It's pissing me off. LOL

[kiyyto]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

In comparison to the ones who are content with the game, the majority that not only post here but on other forums are not happy with the result of ME2. Hopefully Bioware will take note that alienating their existing fanbase to "bring in players that didn't play the original", in other words, shooter fans, is not a smart move, whether it's from an ethics standpoint or business.

I agree to a certain point, but I don't see how anyone who is a shooter fan would like this game. I love shooters, but I definitely would not play this game as a shooter. The only reason I play this game is for the story, whereas before in ME I also enjoyed the RPG elements. Now, it is simply the story.

If they lose the story then this will truly be a suck ass game, because the shooter mechanics in this game are not top notch.

[monika26]

I know I've been busy playing rather than hanging out on here. I love ME2! Sure there's some things I don't like, however they're not game breakers for me. They did far more right with ME2 than wrong. No game is perfect, it's the overall experience which matters. For me that experience has been excellent.

[tempAE0F]

Despite the fact that I had to struggle with stuttering in some scenes and had to apply temp fixes to play the game because of technical issues, I loved the game.

It was better than ME1, and I just can't wait for ME3.

Modifié par tempAE0F, 31 janvier 2010 - 02:30 .

[finc.loki]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

In comparison to the ones who are content with the game, the majority that not only post here but on other forums are not happy with the result of ME2. Hopefully Bioware will take note that alienating their existing fanbase to "bring in players that didn't play the original", in other words, shooter fans, is not a smart move, whether it's from an ethics standpoint or business.

Nr1 rule.

People that enjoy the game play it instead of posting on a forum, this game sold at least 2 million copies.
I do not see 2 million people here on the forum crying.

Some of my posts have seen like complaints, the thing is they are very tiny complaints with me just being vocal.

I think the game is awesome so far, just the atmosphere and design alone is great.

So far my only REAL complaint is that there is no helmet toggle, in the grand scheme of things pretty minor wouldn't you say?
Still PLEASE Bioware make a helmet toggle

Modifié par finc.loki, 31 janvier 2010 - 02:38 .

[trying_touch]

AlanC9 wrote...

NoBrand0nMe wrote...

Agree with the op..Fps fanboys that have never played a bioware game until now need to go back to COD or some other shooter..

So you're a Bioware fan, eh? Very interesting post coming from someone with a join date of January 26th. Sock puppet much?

the join date is invalid given the forum's "bioware social network" transition...

i mean, mine says late 2009 and i had been a member since 06...

guy might have just updated...

but truth is, he might have been a bioware fan way before, and just never joined til now... so really. no need for the condescension...

Modifié par trying_touch, 31 janvier 2010 - 02:50 .

[Zhijn]

Beside the lag of controls for the PC and armor for the team im really enjoying ME2.

No more i gotta omni every bloody item, no more mako, no more repetitive looking indoor missions. And the ammo system is actually growing on me, in ME1 it was just spray and be reckless without fear of getting killed or, well, anything.

Ofc that dosnt mean ME2 is without its flaws and some areas could certainly use improvements.

Modifié par Zhijn, 31 janvier 2010 - 03:01 .

[Halo Quea]

As much of a blast as I'm having with ME2, I have to agree with the OP.

It's funny but those that complained the loudest about the things they disliked about ME1 got practically EVERYTHING they wanted in ME2. 

They complained about combat -  they arguably were given a full fledged TPS
They complained about the menus and UI-  they got extremely simplified menus and UI
They complained about elevator rides-   now we have loading screens 
They complained about the Mako-   the Mako was dropped from the game completely

And the list goes on.


I don't know, but I think there's a little lesson to be learned here.   The people who whined and complained about ME1's gameplay mechanics  were quite loud about it, and as a result got the game that they wanted.  Bioware may have only concluded that we no longer wanted a deep rpg experience with ME2. 

Another thing is that given Bioware's history,  those of  us who like deep role playing elements didn't suspect for one minute that the studio was going to drop so many role playing facets from the sequel.   I think that's where the greater disappointment comes from. We thought that whatever combat improvements were being made were merely additions.   We didn't know that these improvements would come at the expense of the very role playing elements that made ME1 the experience that we so enjoyed.

ME2 is done, and there's nothing that can be done to turn back the clock.  But if RPG gamers really want ME to return to it's role playing roots for ME3, then we are going to have to make some noise and voice our dislikes just as loudly and agressively as those who complained about ME1's gameplay mechanics. 

Maybe Bioware will listen to us, and hopefully not forget us next time.

[MassEffect762]

They should have kept ME1 weapons and armors and added them to the "Buy/Find and the ship will reproduce for you" system. The customization are TOO limited.

Modifié par MassEffect762, 31 janvier 2010 - 03:51 .

[Lycid]

lmao, most are disappointed? Nope. I think ME2 is by far one of the most amazing games of this generation of platforms, if not EVER.

[Agamo45]

The people who are complaining just don't like change. They want ME1.5, they can't admit that ME1 had serious flaws that needed to be addressed. This is why developers don't listen to the "hardcore fans" because if they do the series stagnates. Just look at FF. As for me I loved ME1, played through it dozens of times but ME2 is just better in every way.

[sw33ts]

Ehhh, I wouldn't say I'm disappointed.  But I would say it hasn't lived up to it's hype to ME.  Frankly when a company makes a continuation of a game that game should be incredibly better.  But I feel that ME 1 =  ME 2 not ME1 < ME2 which I think that's what should've happened.

I mean what are the changes...we get interrupts...okay those are pretty cool...inventory is taken away...okay fine I guess.   And then the Mako is taken away completely and replaced with teidousoness of looking for resources?  That is just horrible.  I had a strong dislike for the Mako yes but at least it wasn't incredibly dull at least you had people to kill, thresher maws to blow up.  Now you have these short little missions that are dumb and kinda have nothing to do with the story at least in ME1 a lot of them had to do with the "evil" cerberus. 

And now there's less dialogue??  What why?  I wouldn't exactly called Mass Effect a TPS because there are far better games out there for that.  To me it seems more like an RPG and for me the story just wasn't as great as ME1.  I'll probably get some slack now, but that's how I feel.  Half the time I was just like...SKIP SKIP SKIP...whereas in ME1 I was like MUST LEARN EVERYTHING ABOUT REAPERS/PROTHEANS.

The only character I cared for was Tali, Samara and Jack and then after their loyal quest it's like...I'm busy go away.

 

Out the airlock for you.

[Miss Lizz]

Sure, there are some things I've found lesser than the first game (dislike how we can't play proper 'dress up' with our comrades, no inventory, little to no random conversations between the squad) but I'm still loving the game. It really just took me getting used to it and the rest of the different features. Best ten bucks I've spent on game.

[AlanC9]

trying_touch wrote...

the join date is invalid given the forum's "bioware social network" transition...

i mean, mine says late 2009 and i had been a member since 06...

guy might have just updated...

If he want to prove me wrong, he's free to.

[cerberus1701]

Complainers are the minority. Vast minority.



I loved ME and ME2 is superior in virtually every respect.



Funny, what you call efforts to "bring in shooter fans" I call actually getting right what they tried and failed to do in the first game. The tactical shooter aspect of the game is NOT new.



It's only finally functional after the embarrassment that combat was ME1



Don't you get it?