270 réponses à ce sujet

[Stronghold II]

tmelange wrote...

RedSocialKnight wrote...

Obviously, I think Dragon Age is just aces.

I do think that all the time and money that must have gone into the in-house engine did not have the world's best payoff. The state of the art passed Bioware by while they were working on it, and at release it already looked a bit dated -- to the extent that some of the most moving scenes in the game are undercut a little by the doll-like appearance of the models.

Kind of hoping they'll follow ME2 in licensing someone else's engine for the sequel. It's just too hard for a small house to keep up -- the Infinity Engine was an exception, but that's because it never tried to compete with the state of the art 3D graphics even of that time -- it looked fine, but it was successful because it was the perfect fit for the kind of games Bioware makes, not because it was the prettiest thing on the market.

I think this is a very valid point of discussion, whether or not a person loves the game. I would be curious to know whether BW feels that the engine they spent so much time developing is now dated. IMHO, the graphics aren't the most important thing to me. Although it's popular to equate the level of enjoyment with the visual quality of a game, I find that the games I have enjoyed the most over the years have always been evaluated on criteria that had little to do with how the game looked from a 3D perspective.

 As much as I would like to say and believe that graphics don't matter, in todays market that is just not true anymore.

 Games have come a long way, and they are looking pretty dang spectacular. So when a game comes along that looks sub par people take notice.

Modifié par Stronghold II, 30 janvier 2010 - 11:14 .

[Dahelia]

Stronghold II wrote...

Dahelia wrote...

Stronghold II wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Stronghold II wrote...
 It's not a valid point, it's a bit retarded in fact.
 

But you've given no reasons as to why.

 Here, I'll dumb it down for you a bit.

 Both are games YAY!

 Both are RPGs  YAY!!

 Both are made by Bioware YAY!

 Both have been released close together YAY!

 Explain to me again why I can't compare the two? I mean I would understand if I was comparing Dragon Age with a toaster..................but come on man.

We really need a rolling eyes smilie...just for you...just for you. Your opinion is NOT fact...if you like ME so much more, go to the ME forum and post that there...you will get the same praises you are looking for. Here, you will NOT.

 OMG your opinon differs from mine GO AWAY GO AWAY!!!


 classic.

This is really getting pathetic..you really are just a troll. You are expecting people to love your opinion and agree, no one here really is going to. Your opinion as I typed already is NOT fact.

[RangerSG]

Stronghold II wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Was this thread an afterthought?

Just because you, personally, prefer ME2 means that DA was an afterthought? What a conceited, self-centered, idiotic stance.

 Just because my opinon differs from yours doesn't mean you have to get all butt hurt about it. That's a pretty self-centered, idiotic stance to take. Pretty conceited as well.......

 You are also a bit of a hypocrite. Complaining about trolling when that's pretty much all you TRY to do.

 and the mindless "this" that has followed is proof that people are sheep and are too afraid to think on their own.

 Blind rabid fanboyism does NOT help push this genre forward. One of the devs in this very thread admitted that the game could be better, why is it so hard for you to embrace that fact?

 So add some merit to your drivel or troll elsewhere.

And personal attacks on those you disagree with don't illustrate trolling and ME fanboy posts?

Saying "Because" to defend your opinion is a valid argument?

You can go back to the ME forum now. Have a nice day.

[Dahelia]

Stronghold II wrote...

tmelange wrote...

RedSocialKnight wrote...

Obviously, I think Dragon Age is just aces.

I do think that all the time and money that must have gone into the in-house engine did not have the world's best payoff. The state of the art passed Bioware by while they were working on it, and at release it already looked a bit dated -- to the extent that some of the most moving scenes in the game are undercut a little by the doll-like appearance of the models.

Kind of hoping they'll follow ME2 in licensing someone else's engine for the sequel. It's just too hard for a small house to keep up -- the Infinity Engine was an exception, but that's because it never tried to compete with the state of the art 3D graphics even of that time -- it looked fine, but it was successful because it was the perfect fit for the kind of games Bioware makes, not because it was the prettiest thing on the market.

I think this is a very valid point of discussion, whether or not a person loves the game. I would be curious to know whether BW feels that the engine they spent so much time developing is now dated. IMHO, the graphics aren't the most important thing to me. Although it's popular to equate the level of enjoyment with the visual quality of a game, I find that the games I have enjoyed the most over the years have always been evaluated on criteria that had little to do with how the game looked from a 3D perspective.

 As much as I would like to say and believe that graphics don't matter, in todays market that is just not true anymore.

 Games have come a long way, and they are looking pretty dang spectacular. So when a game comes along that looks sub par people take notice.

It is the story of an RPG that is most important, not the graphics..a story is what makes an RPG. If someone says different, this is why the RPG genre is dying.

[Stronghold II]

RangerSG wrote...

Stronghold II wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Was this thread an afterthought?

Just because you, personally, prefer ME2 means that DA was an afterthought? What a conceited, self-centered, idiotic stance.

 Just because my opinon differs from yours doesn't mean you have to get all butt hurt about it. That's a pretty self-centered, idiotic stance to take. Pretty conceited as well.......

 You are also a bit of a hypocrite. Complaining about trolling when that's pretty much all you TRY to do.

 and the mindless "this" that has followed is proof that people are sheep and are too afraid to think on their own.

 Blind rabid fanboyism does NOT help push this genre forward. One of the devs in this very thread admitted that the game could be better, why is it so hard for you to embrace that fact?

 So add some merit to your drivel or troll elsewhere.

And personal attacks on those you disagree with don't illustrate trolling and ME fanboy posts?

Saying "Because" to defend your opinion is a valid argument?

You can go back to the ME forum now. Have a nice day.

 I'm just returning in kind Sir.

[Stronghold II]

Dahelia wrote...

Stronghold II wrote...

tmelange wrote...

RedSocialKnight wrote...

Obviously, I think Dragon Age is just aces.

I do think that all the time and money that must have gone into the in-house engine did not have the world's best payoff. The state of the art passed Bioware by while they were working on it, and at release it already looked a bit dated -- to the extent that some of the most moving scenes in the game are undercut a little by the doll-like appearance of the models.

Kind of hoping they'll follow ME2 in licensing someone else's engine for the sequel. It's just too hard for a small house to keep up -- the Infinity Engine was an exception, but that's because it never tried to compete with the state of the art 3D graphics even of that time -- it looked fine, but it was successful because it was the perfect fit for the kind of games Bioware makes, not because it was the prettiest thing on the market.

I think this is a very valid point of discussion, whether or not a person loves the game. I would be curious to know whether BW feels that the engine they spent so much time developing is now dated. IMHO, the graphics aren't the most important thing to me. Although it's popular to equate the level of enjoyment with the visual quality of a game, I find that the games I have enjoyed the most over the years have always been evaluated on criteria that had little to do with how the game looked from a 3D perspective.

 As much as I would like to say and believe that graphics don't matter, in todays market that is just not true anymore.

 Games have come a long way, and they are looking pretty dang spectacular. So when a game comes along that looks sub par people take notice.

It is the story of an RPG that is most important, not the graphics..a story is what makes an RPG. If someone says different, this is why the RPG genre is dying.

 You are half correct.

 The story is why we all play RPGs. The story is very important.

 But why don't you release a game that looks like crap in todays market and see how well it does. Like it or not, graphics are VERY important.

[ericsa]

SleeplessInSigil wrote...

Fallout 3 steamrolls all. 

Oh god how I don't agree. I gave up on playing F3 when I was playing both games. F3 is just so depressing with all the post-apokalyptic ****.

[Stronghold II]

ericsa wrote...

SleeplessInSigil wrote...

Fallout 3 steamrolls all. 

Oh god how I don't agree. I gave up on playing F3 when I was playing both games. F3 is just so depressing with all the post-apokalyptic ****.

 Bethesda may very well be the worst game developer ever.

[melkathi]

Stronghold II wrote...


 What is this camp thing you speak of?

If this is an earnest question, you seriously should not judge the game sicne then you haven't actually played it past the first hour.

[Stronghold II]

melkathi wrote...

Stronghold II wrote...


 What is this camp thing you speak of?

If this is an earnest question, you seriously should not judge the game sicne then you haven't actually played it past the first hour.

 I once seen the box on a Wal-Mart shelf. 

 That count? 

 My faith in humanity has all but vanished!! POOF!! There it goes!!

[Morroian]

Stronghold II wrote...
 Here, I'll dumb it down for you a bit.

 Both are games YAY!

 Both are RPGs  YAY!!

 Both are made by Bioware YAY!

 Both have been released close together YAY!

 Explain to me again why I can't compare the two? I mean I would understand if I was comparing Dragon Age with a toaster..................but come on man.

Because that doesn't address the specific point I'm trying to debate about the reason why ME2 is a more polished game than DAO which was raised by RangerSG.

[Larry L]

Stronghold II wrote...

Dahelia wrote...

Stronghold II wrote...

tmelange wrote...

RedSocialKnight wrote...

Obviously, I think Dragon Age is just aces.

I do think that all the time and money that must have gone into the in-house engine did not have the world's best payoff. The state of the art passed Bioware by while they were working on it, and at release it already looked a bit dated -- to the extent that some of the most moving scenes in the game are undercut a little by the doll-like appearance of the models.

Kind of hoping they'll follow ME2 in licensing someone else's engine for the sequel. It's just too hard for a small house to keep up -- the Infinity Engine was an exception, but that's because it never tried to compete with the state of the art 3D graphics even of that time -- it looked fine, but it was successful because it was the perfect fit for the kind of games Bioware makes, not because it was the prettiest thing on the market.

I think this is a very valid point of discussion, whether or not a person loves the game. I would be curious to know whether BW feels that the engine they spent so much time developing is now dated. IMHO, the graphics aren't the most important thing to me. Although it's popular to equate the level of enjoyment with the visual quality of a game, I find that the games I have enjoyed the most over the years have always been evaluated on criteria that had little to do with how the game looked from a 3D perspective.

 As much as I would like to say and believe that graphics don't matter, in todays market that is just not true anymore.

 Games have come a long way, and they are looking pretty dang spectacular. So when a game comes along that looks sub par people take notice.

It is the story of an RPG that is most important, not the graphics..a story is what makes an RPG. If someone says different, this is why the RPG genre is dying.

 You are half correct.

 The story is why we all play RPGs. The story is very important.

 But why don't you release a game that looks like crap in todays market and see how well it does. Like it or not, graphics are VERY important.

I don't agree with your argument one bit. First of all I don't think Dragon Age looks "like crap" by any means. I think it looks very good in fact. The graphical assets are certainly of a higher quality than Oblivion, and that's more than good enough for me.

And comparing it to the few other games in it's genre that have come out this hardware generation, games like Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2, Sacred 2 Fallen Angel, and I suppose you could even compare it a bit to Fable.......Dragon Age looks better than all of them. So I in no way see how Dragon Age looks "like crap" in todays market. You can't compare Dragon Age to Mass Effect on any level imo beyond story telling. One's a RPG and one's a 3rd person shooter. Each have totally differnt graphical bars. It's like comparing Bejeweled to Killzone 2.....it makes no sense.

And 2ndly, graphics are very importany in certain genres or styles of games. First and 3rd person shooters (like ME2), racing games and fighting games. And to certain styles of RPGs graphics CAN be important too, like for example Final Fantasy. In other genres or styles of games though, graphics are not as important. And the Dragon Age style of RPG is an example. Luckily though, imo it DOES have good graphics when compared to actual comparable games.

And besides, to most gamers graphics aren't THE most important thing. They're more like a nice extra. If they WERE the #1 most important thing to most gamers PS3 would be the highest selling console this gen, not Wii. And games like Killzone 2 and Uncharted 2 amongst other (also Crysis) would have much higher sales than they do. So not only do I disagree with your argument on Dragon Age, but I also think your generalization of gamers is completely off-base and wrong.

[Stronghold II]

Morroian wrote...

Stronghold II wrote...
 Here, I'll dumb it down for you a bit.

 Both are games YAY!

 Both are RPGs  YAY!!

 Both are made by Bioware YAY!

 Both have been released close together YAY!

 Explain to me again why I can't compare the two? I mean I would understand if I was comparing Dragon Age with a toaster..................but come on man.

Because that doesn't address the specific point I'm trying to debate about the reason why ME2 is a more polished game than DAO which was raised by RangerSG.

 I was told I could not compare the two.

 I think that is silly.

 Actually I think that it is asinine. It's also pretty clear that people are only skimming certain post.

[Posioned]

Stronghold II wrote...

You are half correct.

 The story is why we all play RPGs. The story is very important.

 But why don't you release a game that looks like crap in todays market and see how well it does. Like it or not, graphics are VERY important.

And that is something I've always found kind of ..sad. Todays generation (ok I'm dating myself here) is so enamoured by shiny new things that big better graphics seem to take priority in everything for most. Yes graphics are nice. But it's truly not the be all and end all to a game. However I know that most do not share that sentiment with me.

[Stronghold II]

[quote]Larry L wrote...

[quote]Stronghold II wrote...

[quote]Dahelia wrote...

[quote]Stronghold II wrote...

[quote]tmelange wrote...

[quote]RedSocialKnight wrote...

Obviously, I think Dragon Age is just aces.

I do think that all the time and money that must have gone into the in-house engine did not have the world's best payoff. The state of the art passed Bioware by while they were working on it, and at release it already looked a bit dated -- to the extent that some of the most moving scenes in the game are undercut a little by the doll-like appearance of the models.

Kind of hoping they'll follow ME2 in licensing someone else's engine for the sequel. It's just too hard for a small house to keep up -- the Infinity Engine was an exception, but that's because it never tried to compete with the state of the art 3D graphics even of that time -- it looked fine, but it was successful because it was the perfect fit for the kind of games Bioware makes, not because it was the prettiest thing on the market.[/quote]

I think this is a very valid point of discussion, whether or not a person loves the game. I would be curious to know whether BW feels that the engine they spent so much time developing is now dated. IMHO, the graphics aren't the most important thing to me. Although it's popular to equate the level of enjoyment with the visual quality of a game, I find that the games I have enjoyed the most over the years have always been evaluated on criteria that had little to do with how the game looked from a 3D perspective.

[/quote]


 As much as I would like to say and believe that graphics don't matter, in todays market that is just not true anymore.

 Games have come a long way, and they are looking pretty dang spectacular. So when a game comes along that looks sub par people take notice. [/quote]

It is the story of an RPG that is most important, not the graphics..a story is what makes an RPG. If someone says different, this is why the RPG genre is dying.

[/quote]


 You are half correct.

 The story is why we all play RPGs. The story is very important.

 But why don't you release a game that looks like crap in todays market and see how well it does. Like it or not, graphics are VERY important.[/quote]



[quote]I don't agree with your argument one bit. First of all I don't think Dragon Age looks "like crap" by any means. I think it looks very good in fact. The graphical assets are certainly of a higher quality than Oblivion, and that's more than good enough for me. [/quote]

 Please quote me where I siad that DA looked like crap.

 Go ahead......I'll wait.


[quote]And comparing it to the few other games in it's genre that have come out this hardware generation, games like Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2, Sacred 2 Fallen Angel, and I suppose you could even compare it a bit to Fable.......Dragon Age looks better than all of them. So I in no way see how Dragon Age looks "like crap" in todays market. You can't compare Dragon Age to Mass Effect on any level imo beyond story telling. One's a RPG and one's a 3rd person shooter. Each have totally differnt graphical bars. It's like comparing Bejeweled to Killzone 2.....it makes no sense.[/quote]

 Please tell me you are joking. Please for the love of God and for the sake of humanity tell me you just made all that up off the top of your head for lolz?

 I can compare DA to MUA2, Sacred 2, and Fable, but I can;t compatre it to Mass Effect 2? I may have to /suicide over that one.

 Just because a game has guns does not make it any less of a RPG. I'm not even sure how anyone can logically come to that conclusion. RPG stands for Role Playing Game. I don't see "With the exclusion of guns" in that description anywhere.



[quote]And 2ndly, graphics are very importany in certain genres or styles of games. First and 3rd person shooters (like ME2), racing games and fighting games. And to certain styles of RPGs graphics CAN be important too, like for example Final Fantasy. In other genres or styles of games though, graphics are not as important. And the Dragon Age style of RPG is an example. Luckily though, imo it DOES have good graphics when compared to actual comparable games.[/quote]

 Do you even read what you write? I'll just point and laugh at this paragraph to save you a bit of shame.


[quote]And besides, to most gamers graphics aren't THE most important thing. They're more like a nice extra. If they WERE the #1 most important thing to most gamers PS3 would be the highest selling console this gen, not Wii. And games like Killzone 2 and Uncharted 2 amongst other (also Crysis) would have much higher sales than they do. So not only do I disagree with your argument on Dragon Age, but I also think your generalization of gamers is completely off-base and wrong.[/quote]

 LOL you are always good for a laugh sir, I salute you!

 The Wii sold more because it was cheap. FACT

 See how the PS3 sales are now catching up with everyone else? Price cut.

 Why do you think games and movies are looking better and better? It's because visuals sell games.

 Yes story is VERY important, but it's a bit naive to think that graphics are not a major selling point in todays market.

Modifié par Stronghold II, 31 janvier 2010 - 12:00 .

[Derengard]

There was a ME 1 before the 2, and each game is more concise. The graphic engine is not a Bioware development. ME2 looks so much better than 1 because they didn't have the hang of the engine in the beginning. This is normal with any new technology. And any sequel (at least Bioware ones, of which I think there are only two examples) is a great improvement to the prequel, even when the development time was relatively short. This has also to do with company growth. When they started ME 2, DA was already over 90% (or so) done.

[Stronghold II]

Posioned wrote...

Stronghold II wrote...

You are half correct.

 The story is why we all play RPGs. The story is very important.

 But why don't you release a game that looks like crap in todays market and see how well it does. Like it or not, graphics are VERY important.

And that is something I've always found kind of ..sad. Todays generation (ok I'm dating myself here) is so enamoured by shiny new things that big better graphics seem to take priority in everything for most. Yes graphics are nice. But it's truly not the be all and end all to a game. However I know that most do not share that sentiment with me.

 Exactly!!

 and it is sad.

 I fought this for years. I was a hardcore CRPGer. I played BG for about 7 years. I loved my PC, I loved my Baldur's Gate, and I loved the dated graphics.

 Those days are gone though. 

 The console market is taking over, visuals are taking priority, and the game play is knocked down to about 8 hours instead of 100. Bioware is one of the few developers left that even makes games with over 20 hours of content.

 Yes, it is VERY SAD.

[Stronghold II]

Dahelia wrote...

Stronghold II wrote...

Dahelia wrote...

Stronghold II wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Stronghold II wrote...
 It's not a valid point, it's a bit retarded in fact.
 

But you've given no reasons as to why.

 Here, I'll dumb it down for you a bit.

 Both are games YAY!

 Both are RPGs  YAY!!

 Both are made by Bioware YAY!

 Both have been released close together YAY!

 Explain to me again why I can't compare the two? I mean I would understand if I was comparing Dragon Age with a toaster..................but come on man.

We really need a rolling eyes smilie...just for you...just for you. Your opinion is NOT fact...if you like ME so much more, go to the ME forum and post that there...you will get the same praises you are looking for. Here, you will NOT.

 OMG your opinon differs from mine GO AWAY GO AWAY!!!


 classic.

This is really getting pathetic..you really are just a troll. You are expecting people to love your opinion and agree, no one here really is going to. Your opinion as I typed already is NOT fact.

 LOL poor thing, it's just a game dear, mellow out.

 I don't give a rat's backside if anyone agees with me, but fact is people do.

 You are ignoring much of this thread. That's another fact.

[Relband]

RepentantDread wrote...

They already had the foundation for it in Mass Effect, it was mostly just improving on graphics, gameplay, and what not.

WHS.

DA2 will be as awesome in comparison with DA:O as ME2 is in comparison with ME.

[Zerroth2]

DAO and ME2 are both amazing games. o.O And I'm sure DAO2 will be seriously amazing aswell as ME3. I'm excited for both of these two sequels. They'll really raise the bar in the common RPG, which ME2 and DAO did here today.

[Stronghold II]

Relband wrote...

RepentantDread wrote...

They already had the foundation for it in Mass Effect, it was mostly just improving on graphics, gameplay, and what not.

WHS.

DA2 will be as awesome in comparison with DA:O as ME2 is in comparison with ME.

 I hope so.

[thegreateski]

So I'm not the only one who thinks Dragon age was . . . unfinished.



pretty damn awesome for a bare-bones game though.

[TheMadCat]

Exactly!!

 and it is sad.

 I fought this for years. I was a hardcore CRPGer. I played BG for about 7 years. I loved my PC, I loved my Baldur's Gate, and I loved the dated graphics.

 Those days are gone though.

 The console market is taking over, visuals are taking priority, and the game play is knocked down to about 8 hours instead of 100. Bioware is one of the few developers left that even makes games with over 20 hours of content.

 Yes, it is VERY SAD.

I disagree, game play still trumps graphics even though the importance of graphics has moved up on the ladder. There are many companies that produce niche products for certain genres that focus on game play and in certain cases story while using dated and limited graphics and effects.

Look at the best selling game this year, The Sims 3. Very mediocre graphics yet it's casual style allows it to be the gold mine it is. Look at WoW, terrible graphics even for when it first game out. Look at the comparison between ArmA2 and MW2. Both are shooters at their base, ArmA 2 much more strategic and complex but it does have much better graphics and effects yet it got stomped into the curb in sales by the more casual MW2. The whole graphics > all argument is a bit silly and shortsighted. It helps in sales no doubt about it but is not needed for success. Game play, and to a certain extension story, are still the key factors relating to success.

[axan22]

Comparing a first person shooter to and 3rd person RPG/strategy ??? oh well thats up to you . i havent played ME or ME2 and wont be as they don't interest me at all but Dragon age is one of the best RPGs to come out in a long time and judging from the trailers i have seen of ME2 i prefer the graphics in Dragon age too, The story in dragon age is well developed and saying the characters arent developed ???? are you playing the same game ??? and why start talkintg about dragonage 2 if there ever will be one, as there is nearly 2 years years left of content planned for DAO, i think DAO is awesome the DLC that has come out so far is great and cant wait for the expansion to arrive in 6 weeks, great work bioware you deseve the many awards you have recieved.

[craigdolphin]

ME was still (borderline) an RPG...ME2 has crossed over into shooter territory IMO.

ME2 is a good game...granted. It's the first squad based shooter I've played that has ever had any appeal for me (scanning planets and hacking circuits is actually more 'fun' to me than shooting the bad guys). So, from where I'm sitting, it just isn't an RPG any more. And while DA:O and ME2 are both games (Yay!) and both released at a similar time (er, Yay?) by Bioware (YAY!) ... I have to disagree with you about the type of game each represents.

And yep, the graphics are better in ME2. But, here's how important that is to me: I'm still on my first playtrhough of ME2, and then I discovered Return to Ostagar came out yesterday. I quit ME2 and cranked up RTO instead.

See, to me, DA:O has heart and soul...ME2? Not so much. It's like that cheerleader with the hawt body....great to look at, and fun to 'interact' with for a while, but not who you want to spend the rest of your life with. Not that ME2 isn't a great game: it is. But there's not one NPC in the game I really give a damn about (possible exception ...Jacob...maybe). Whereas Leliana, Morrigan, Alistair, Sten, Oghren all 'feel' like friends/people. And that's far more relevant to my enjoyment of the game than whether the textures are HD or not.

And to be honest, I'll buy whatever Bioware makes. Time and again Bioware games have proved their value to me. But given the direction that the ME franchise is taking, I likely will not be buying both a PC and XBox version again for ME3 as I did this time around. It's a good shooter, but I've never been very interested in shooters. If ever DA2 arrives, I'll be preordering for both platforms for certain. ME3 is more likely to be an afterthought purchase in my household. DA:2 would be an obsession

Just sharing my opinion. Your mileage may vary.