270 réponses à ce sujet

[Joseph Silver]

Minesweeper still pwns all.

[Stronghold II]

craigdolphin wrote...

ME was still (borderline) an RPG...ME2 has crossed over into shooter territory IMO.

ME2 is a good game...granted. It's the first squad based shooter I've played that has ever had any appeal for me (scanning planets and hacking circuits is actually more 'fun' to me than shooting the bad guys). So, from where I'm sitting, it just isn't an RPG any more. And while DA:O and ME2 are both games (Yay!) and both released at a similar time (er, Yay?) by Bioware (YAY!) ... I have to disagree with you about the type of game each represents.

And yep, the graphics are better in ME2. But, here's how important that is to me: I'm still on my first playtrhough of ME2, and then I discovered Return to Ostagar came out yesterday. I quit ME2 and cranked up RTO instead.

See, to me, DA:O has heart and soul...ME2? Not so much. It's like that cheerleader with the hawt body....great to look at, and fun to 'interact' with for a while, but not who you want to spend the rest of your life with. Not that ME2 isn't a great game: it is. But there's not one NPC in the game I really give a damn about (possible exception ...Jacob...maybe). Whereas Leliana, Morrigan, Alistair, Sten, Oghren all 'feel' like friends/people. And that's far more relevant to my enjoyment of the game than whether the textures are HD or not.

And to be honest, I'll buy whatever Bioware makes. Time and again Bioware games have proved their value to me. But given the direction that the ME franchise is taking, I likely will not be buying both a PC and XBox version again for ME3 as I did this time around. It's a good shooter, but I've never been very interested in shooters. If ever DA2 arrives, I'll be preordering for both platforms for certain. ME3 is more likely to be an afterthought purchase in my household. DA:2 would be an obsession

Just sharing my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

 and that folks is how you properly disagree with someone.

 /salute

[thegreateski]

Joseph Silver wrote...

Minesweeper still pwns all.

Ski-free is much harder.

BEHOLD THE TERROR!

[grieferbastard]

You know, I've debated ME1 vs ME2, RPGs and such on the Mass Effect forum at length. I think it's a brilliant game, but I prefer DA:O. Dramatically so in fact. ME2 is a great movie, a very cinematic game, but it's not a full classical RPG like I like. DA:O is. With the delay on RtO I finished up the characters I had going and have started yet another new game to play through. My first time with a City Elf in fact - yet again I find myself pleased and impressed with the depth and variety each playthrough has. I've started a whole new game just to play through RtO and see the game through a City Elfs eyes and have thus far not been disappointed.

By the way? This will probably hit 400 or 500 hours worth of playtime into DA:O by the time I finish. Will you ever hit 100 hours of playtime on ME2? Will it draw you back again and again that much? It's great cinema. A great story. Much like watching a movie or reading a book though it's someone elses story that you ride along with. I can re-write DA:O again and again with a myriad of options and make it my story. I've said it before in other places and I'll say it again. There are classic RPG games getting rebuilt twenty years later by their fans. I'd put DA:O in that catagory - if not in the lead of it. A huge, involved story with deep and engrossing characters.

ME2 is great. Will you be playing it in 2 years? That, to me, is a big different between 'Great' and 'EPIC'.

[Vaeliorin]

I'm currently installing ME2, and I can definitively say that the packaging of the CE of DA was far superior to the packaging of the CE of ME2.



Mostly because disc 1 wouldn't come off the freaking spindle.

[Stronghold II]

Vaeliorin wrote...

I'm currently installing ME2, and I can definitively say that the packaging of the CE of DA was far superior to the packaging of the CE of ME2.

Mostly because disc 1 wouldn't come off the freaking spindle.

 That made me laugh and I am not really sure why.

 Oh yeah.....pot.

[Vaeliorin]

Stronghold II wrote...

Vaeliorin wrote...
I'm currently installing ME2, and I can definitively say that the packaging of the CE of DA was far superior to the packaging of the CE of ME2.

Mostly because disc 1 wouldn't come off the freaking spindle.

That made me laugh and I am not really sure why.

That was kind of the point.

[Stronghold II]

Vaeliorin wrote...

Stronghold II wrote...

Vaeliorin wrote...
I'm currently installing ME2, and I can definitively say that the packaging of the CE of DA was far superior to the packaging of the CE of ME2.

Mostly because disc 1 wouldn't come off the freaking spindle.

That made me laugh and I am not really sure why.

That was kind of the point.

 and on that note...it's time to step outside for some more.

 Makes the midget cough....

[Mlai00]

ME franchise... "role-playing third-person shooter".... guess what I'm not going to buy into it.

There is a new shooter that I'll be playing in 2010. Its name is Aliens vs Predator. ME ain't it. I'm sure for shooter purposes, AvP will blow ME2 out of the water.

For my pure RPG needs, I'll be looking at the DAO expansion.

So you see, comparing different genres of games is pointless, even when made by the same company.

[thegreateski]

Mlai00 wrote...
Its name is Aliens vs Predator.

You have my condolences.

Modifié par thegreateski, 31 janvier 2010 - 01:45 .

[Stronghold II]

Mlai00 wrote...

ME franchise... "role-playing third-person shooter".... guess what I'm not going to buy into it.
There is a new shooter that I'll be playing in 2010. Its name is Aliens vs Predator. ME ain't it. I'm sure for shooter purposes, AvP will blow ME2 out of the water.
For my pure RPG needs, I'll be looking at the DAO expansion.
So you see, comparing different genres of games is pointless, even when made by the same company.

 Well crap.....and here I thought for all these years that the Fallout games were RPGs.

 So, a game MUST have a sword, shield, armor, and either a dwarf or an elf to be a RPG?

 Glad you geniuses cleared that up for me.


 LOL

 You hear that Bioware, several of your "fans" think you are completely full of it and think that you have NO idea what an RPG is.

 For shame!!

 I may have just de-evolved reading your post sir.

[ile_1979]

Vaeliorin wrote...

I'm currently installing ME2, and I can definitively say that the packaging of the CE of DA was far superior to the packaging of the CE of ME2.

Mostly because disc 1 wouldn't come off the freaking spindle.

well IMO it goes like this. long time ago there was this game Bladur's Gate and it's sequel Baldur's Gate 2. and these were my bible in RPGs (the games, not the granate launchers). and then. as decades passed and it seamed like there will be no RPGs anymore, came Dragon Age. and it came as a surprise. i tracked it's developemnet as a silent stalker for 2 years on the old forums and another 2 years activly-(hi Vaelorin, i am Aerandir if you remeber our discussions). as the D-Day of its release came closer i started to lose faith in DAO, mostly because of the marketing aproach, i think which favored lots of Menson's inspired videos.

but then the game came out. and man was i surprised. someone from the team (i think it was Stan) said this game will make laugh and cry and make you reload ove and over again as you try to make up your mind about the dialogue choices you'd make. and he was right. DAO is by far the best RPG of these times, and in my book it is up there with Baldur's Gate 1&2.  it's main story is great and long enough on ots own, plus the side plots are well integrated with it.  the characters "feel" like they belong there. the council scene near the end...a masterpiece in both plot / dramatic and gamewise POV.

sure the graphics are not state of the art but i never really cared too much about that. sure we could use more various weapons in the future (spears and throwing weapons please ) but hey it's not that big of a deal eighter. and permadeath, yes how could i forget about it :innocent:.... but hey it's still the best game in years and i salute you Bioware for finally giving us something like this. for giving me hope that CRPGs are not a thing of the past.

now Mass Effect 1 and 2. both good games. great games actually. but RPGs? not really. especially Mass Effect 2. when i try to compare both 1 and 2 i am a bit at odds as to which one i like more.....or why....
ME1 may had have longer loading times but it had a better overall atmosphere as far as GUI and artwork went (i'm talking interior designs and color palets here). ME1 was somewhat shorter but lots of ME2 length lies in scnanning planets from orbit. ME1 had a far better main plot but ME2 has much better NPCs and NPC related quests plus more of those. ME1 was an action game with lots of adventure and RPG elements, while ME2 sacrifices lots of those elements for action. ME1 was pretty on the ayes, but ME2 is a cinematic masterpiece; i don't know if i can play anothe raction game again without comparing it to ME2....

so in the end, the verdict depends on what makes you tick.... like on risk of being stoned to death, i'd say i miss the MACO drives. i miss landing on a radiated atmoshere-less planetoid just to look up in the sky and find most of taken by red super giant. i miss the methane and CO2 ice caps. i miss the venucian acid clouds. i miss the gardens of new Earth like planets. but am a huge SF/astrphisics/astronomy fan and explored by heart. however, most of the people that play these games are not. they play them for 2 main reasons, eigther the strory or the fights. naturaly the MACO rides were uneventful for the former and and boring for the latter. ergo the MACO had to go....
still...if i have to still make a choice, then ME2 beats ME1 by a straw in the end, and mostly because it gives more (story, NPCs, romance, gamepla, cinematics) and gives it in good quality. but it is still far to fragmented to come close to DAO. in DAO i never felt like any of the NPCs or the strory did not belong in the main plot. even ME1 is more coherent then ME2 in this department. and RPGs are something i always value more then shooters and action games (despite my great satisfaction of implemneting the reload ammo feature in ME2). and DAO is BIG. epic BIG. gameplay and strory wise. MEs have a long way to go to beat DAO.... at least for my taste.....

[Larry L]

[quote]Stronghold II wrote...

[quote]Larry L wrote...

[quote]Stronghold II wrote...

[quote]Dahelia wrote...

[quote]Stronghold II wrote...

[quote]tmelange wrote...

[quote]RedSocialKnight wrote...

Obviously, I think Dragon Age is just aces.

I do think that all the time and money that must have gone into the in-house engine did not have the world's best payoff. The state of the art passed Bioware by while they were working on it, and at release it already looked a bit dated -- to the extent that some of the most moving scenes in the game are undercut a little by the doll-like appearance of the models.

Kind of hoping they'll follow ME2 in licensing someone else's engine for the sequel. It's just too hard for a small house to keep up -- the Infinity Engine was an exception, but that's because it never tried to compete with the state of the art 3D graphics even of that time -- it looked fine, but it was successful because it was the perfect fit for the kind of games Bioware makes, not because it was the prettiest thing on the market.[/quote]

I think this is a very valid point of discussion, whether or not a person loves the game. I would be curious to know whether BW feels that the engine they spent so much time developing is now dated. IMHO, the graphics aren't the most important thing to me. Although it's popular to equate the level of enjoyment with the visual quality of a game, I find that the games I have enjoyed the most over the years have always been evaluated on criteria that had little to do with how the game looked from a 3D perspective.

[/quote]


 As much as I would like to say and believe that graphics don't matter, in todays market that is just not true anymore.

 Games have come a long way, and they are looking pretty dang spectacular. So when a game comes along that looks sub par people take notice. [/quote]

It is the story of an RPG that is most important, not the graphics..a story is what makes an RPG. If someone says different, this is why the RPG genre is dying.

[/quote]


 You are half correct.

 The story is why we all play RPGs. The story is very important.

 But why don't you release a game that looks like crap in todays market and see how well it does. Like it or not, graphics are VERY important.[/quote]



[quote]I don't agree with your argument one bit. First of all I don't think Dragon Age looks "like crap" by any means. I think it looks very good in fact. The graphical assets are certainly of a higher quality than Oblivion, and that's more than good enough for me. [/quote]

 Please quote me where I siad that DA looked like crap.

 Go ahead......I'll wait.


[quote]And comparing it to the few other games in it's genre that have come out this hardware generation, games like Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2, Sacred 2 Fallen Angel, and I suppose you could even compare it a bit to Fable.......Dragon Age looks better than all of them. So I in no way see how Dragon Age looks "like crap" in todays market. You can't compare Dragon Age to Mass Effect on any level imo beyond story telling. One's a RPG and one's a 3rd person shooter. Each have totally differnt graphical bars. It's like comparing Bejeweled to Killzone 2.....it makes no sense.[/quote]

 Please tell me you are joking. Please for the love of God and for the sake of humanity tell me you just made all that up off the top of your head for lolz?

 I can compare DA to MUA2, Sacred 2, and Fable, but I can;t compatre it to Mass Effect 2? I may have to /suicide over that one.

 Just because a game has guns does not make it any less of a RPG. I'm not even sure how anyone can logically come to that conclusion. RPG stands for Role Playing Game. I don't see "With the exclusion of guns" in that description anywhere.



[quote]And 2ndly, graphics are very importany in certain genres or styles of games. First and 3rd person shooters (like ME2), racing games and fighting games. And to certain styles of RPGs graphics CAN be important too, like for example Final Fantasy. In other genres or styles of games though, graphics are not as important. And the Dragon Age style of RPG is an example. Luckily though, imo it DOES have good graphics when compared to actual comparable games.[/quote]

 Do you even read what you write? I'll just point and laugh at this paragraph to save you a bit of shame.


[quote]And besides, to most gamers graphics aren't THE most important thing. They're more like a nice extra. If they WERE the #1 most important thing to most gamers PS3 would be the highest selling console this gen, not Wii. And games like Killzone 2 and Uncharted 2 amongst other (also Crysis) would have much higher sales than they do. So not only do I disagree with your argument on Dragon Age, but I also think your generalization of gamers is completely off-base and wrong.[/quote]

 LOL you are always good for a laugh sir, I salute you!

 The Wii sold more because it was cheap. FACT

 See how the PS3 sales are now catching up with everyone else? Price cut.

 Why do you think games and movies are looking better and better? It's because visuals sell games.

 Yes story is VERY important, but it's a bit naive to think that graphics are not a major selling point in todays market.
[/quote]

You insinuated Dragon Age looks like crap with your last statement, which was already quoted, I don't need to again, and you've also been insinuating it but your all your other statements. You don't have to outright say something to say it.

How is it a joke in any way to compare COMPARABLE GAMES?! It's certainly less of a joke than comparing Dragon Age to a 3rd Person Shooter, which is what Mass Effect is. Having RPG elements doesn't make it a RPG. Just like Borderlands. It's a FIRST PERSON SHOOTER, not a RPG, it just has RPG elements. And hey, since you like getting so "wise" about stuff, just about EVERY video game is TECHNICALLY a role playing game. In Super Mario Bros on the NES you are technically PLAYING the ROLE of Mario or Luigi. But the fact is, that's not how it works. SMB is NOT a RPG, nor is ME2. It's a TPS.

You trying to be passively insulting doesn't change that fact that I'm right. You continually say you'll just laugh at what I said is just cover for the fact that you have no argument.

You think the Wii is cheap? $250 for a Gamecube with a different controller? Interesting FACT you have there.

I don't think PS3 is catching up ONLY because of the price cut. Obviously that's huge, but all things drop in price as time goes on. Every other console also has dropped in price too, not just PS3. And what about the 20 million PS3s that sold before the price drop?

Visuals aren't the main selling point of games, and that's not ALL gamers buy based upon. Look at MW2. The game looks no better than CoD4 (a two year old game and there are many other FPSs out there that look better) and it's like the best selling game of all time. Or how about the huge sales the SOCOM games got. They didn't even look good for the time. Or look at the HUGE sales of older games now sold digitally. Final Fantasy 7 and 8 and Mortal Kombat 2 look horrible compared to current games, yet they are the top sellers consistantly on PSN. There are MANY other examples of this as well. Street Fighter 2 on Live, MvC2, TMNT 2 on Live. the list goes on. Graphics only go so far, and really only initially grab gamers attention. After that first "hey, that looks great", it comes down to the game itself.

And as for your movie reference, better looking movies don't make better movies. Do the Star Wars prequels looking better than the originals make them better movies? And just like visuals not making things great, sales don't either. Especially considering so many people just buy into whateve's being hyped the most. Uncharted 2 is one of the best video games ever made, meanwhile MW2, which is NOT one of the best video games ever made, outsold it 6 to 1.

[Stronghold II]

Someone please give me ONE valid reason why ME is not an RPG.



Then I will sit back and make fun of you for like 3 days or something.

[Mlai00]

Hey morons, rule #1: You don't go to a game board to tell the forumers that their game sucks and the new game you just bought is better. Games coming from the same company doesn't make it okay.

I simply educated you on why it doesn't matter if you like ME2 better. They're different types of games.

And yeah, a RPG with action-shooter elements is stupid. #1 reason why I do not care about the Kingdom Hearts series. Wow, look at me, an absolute opinion! Now you see how similarly irrelevant your opinions are.

[Stronghold II]

Mlai00 wrote...

Hey morons, rule #1: You don't go to a game board to tell the forumers that their game sucks and the new game you just bought is better. Games coming from the same company doesn't make it okay.
I simply educated you on why it doesn't matter if you like ME2 better. They're different types of games.
And yeah, a RPG with action-shooter elements is stupid. #1 reason why I do not care about the Kingdom Hearts series. Wow, look at me, an absolute opinion! Now you see how similarly irrelevant your opinions are.

 Where did I say Dragon Age sucks?

  I think you mandos read the title of this thread and then.......stopped.

 and for the dude above.....Uncharted 2 was WAY more of a movie than ME ever thought about being and has 0 replay value.

[oldgass]

Did you expect a lot of total agreement on this topic?

[ile_1979]

Stronghold II wrote...

Someone please give me ONE valid reason why ME is not an RPG.

Then I will sit back and make fun of you for like 3 days or something.

if you asked me, i'd say because the choices that characterise a RPG are used in MEs as "spice" rather then the main course.

MEs are about Shepard kicking some butts, which can me made to look paragon or rebel. a RPG is not more proactive in the character definition.

[Stronghold II]

oldgass wrote...

Did you expect a lot of total agreement on this topic?

 I care not to be honest.

 It's a game......and I enjoy seeing how worked up people get. It's great entertainment.

[thegreateski]

I'm seeing a lot of "read the first sentence then make a post" in this thread.

[Mlai00]

And... I care about Uncharted 2, because...?

Sorry, after Lara Croft, I'm all Indiana-Jones'd out. I don't care how good a "treasure hunter" game is. Secondly I have very low interest in hybrid "action/adventure/RPG" type games.

Just like I have very low interest in WW2 games, for example.

You need to realize that for many people, DAO is their kind of game.

For cinematic games, I've been meaning to return to the Metal Gear Solid franchise.

For FPS, I intend to buy AvP.

For hybrid adventure/RPGs... I don't intend to ever go there. And don't let me get into the absolute pointlessness of a shooter game without a competitive online community. That's my definition of 'waste of life hours'.

[Stronghold II]

ile_1979 wrote...

Stronghold II wrote...

Someone please give me ONE valid reason why ME is not an RPG.

Then I will sit back and make fun of you for like 3 days or something.

if you asked me, i'd say because the choices that characterise a RPG are used in MEs as "spice" rather then the main course.

MEs are about Shepard kicking some butts, which can me made to look paragon or rebel. a RPG is not more proactive in the character definition.

 Okay then by that logic Dragon Age is not a RPG when compared to table top D&D.

 Really DA only has certain RPG aspects added for spice.

[Stronghold II]

thegreateski wrote...

I'm seeing a lot of "read the first sentence then make a post" in this thread.

 Exactly

[wonko33]

Stronghold II wrote...

oldgass wrote...

Did you expect a lot of total agreement on this topic?

 I care not to be honest.

 It's a game......and I enjoy seeing how worked up people get. It's great entertainment.

I agreed with your initial post and though people were overreacting, but seeing most of your replies I guess they were right after all. Nothing to see here, just a troll trying to get a rise out of people, move along folks... sad indeed

[Stronghold II]

thegreateski wrote...

Mlai00 wrote...
Its name is Aliens vs Predator.

You have my condolences.

 I like the edit, really drives the point home.

 Well played.