437 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadesofsiknas]

The one thing about TIM and Cerberus is they are commited to stopping the Reapers. Nobody else in the Galaxy is willing to provide you with the resources needed to fight the good fight. With this in mind I kept the base on my first playtru which I consider my canon as its a carryover of my very first ME1 playtru and all my decisions are made spoiler free. Its just too much of an oppurtunity to improve our odds against the Reapers to let it slip.

[Tyrael100]

I dont know about you guys but for some weird ass reason, i think Cerberus WANT to take over the Alliance. I dont know why but some things in the game made me believe that. Maybe getting the ship will help them advance.

Modifié par Tyrael100, 05 février 2010 - 10:51 .

[AtreiyaN7]

i7206 wrote...

About the whole tech outstretching culture thing, humans seemed to manage alright after finding the Prothean ruins on Mars. So I'm not sure about that angle.

And the argument about developing the way reapers want is completely moot, because their is no way in hell they expected anyone to find the collector base in the galactic core.

The main issue is TIM. He could be do/be anything. Probably not even human.

True, having the Collector base fall into enemy hands was NOT part of their standard plan, but Shepard is something of an unexpected wildcard I imagine. *chuckle* The success of the suicide mission was probably an outcome that Harbinger could not have predicted. Now yes, finding the ruins on Mars worked out for humanity, but if not for Shepard's actions in ME1, the Reapers would have followed their standard pattern as they have for however many 50,000-year cycles they have existed. The pattern is as follows:

A) Civilization discovers mass relays/Citadel.
 Civilization utilizes the relay system and the Citadel, not realizing that it's a trap (meanwhile, mass effect based tech is, of course, developed).
C) Reapers signal the Keepers at the designated time after having one of their kind serving as a sentinel/scout who watches the civilization in question get to approximately where they want.
D) They destroy the civilization in a blitzkrieg and proceed to harvest the organics they wish to use.

It seems to me that we were doing exactly what they wantd - using the relays, developing tech in a manner they wanted, etc. etc. But for what amounts to some extreme luck (Prothean Conduit) and Shepard (the determined Spectre who can pull off the impossible), we would have likely ended up their victims. I can agree that TIM is an important factor now - I trust the man about as far as i can throw him at this point.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Look at the main decisions from ME1 and what impact they had on ME2. The Councils are still jerks, Wrex sits on his throne or not, Captain Anderson is in charge, but you'll get a similar conversation with Udina in ME2 when you selected him, the Rachni sends her thanks through an asari messenger or not.



That means I don't worry about the choices having a real impact in the game. The choices in ME1 only had cosmetic impact. The story didn't change at all. The same will happen in ME3.

[Tokalla]

Aiken Drum wrote...

Every time people have messed with Reaper tech it has gone poorly.

This was as far as my considerations went before choosing to destroy the base.  There is plenty of evidence already available that messing with Reaper tech ends badly for all involved.  If so much of the simple and partial Reaper tech that has thus far been discovered has almost always managed to destroy or dominate those even in the vicinity, what makes taking a facility capable of creating much more advanced Reaper tech that had previously filled with indoctrinated servants seem like a good idea?  Sure there is a chance the base is harmless and research could be performed, but the benefits would likely only be more tech the Reapers can antiipate.  Of course, if it is capable of indoctrination, then trying to study it will only provide more slaves to oppose me (possibly doing so by sabotaging efforts to attain useful information from what they are supposed to be studying).  I never even got to considering TIM in the equation, and adding him certainly makes the choice to destroy all the more appealing to me.

[MutantSpleen]

I gave it to TIM. I want every advantage I can get if I have to face all of the Reapers in the future. There will be useful information in some form in that base. We are facing unbelievable odds and Cerberus is the only thing that made it possible to beat the Collectors (and thus the Reapers) this game.

[Legbiter]

My renegade blew that base to hell. Any scientific effort launched by Cerberus would either just get indoctrinated like at the derelict Reaper or Cerberus would start pasting humans themselves in an effort to replicate some aspects of the human/reaper hybrid.

[XIXPlanetside]

Well played the game 6 times now still cant destroy the base where it not for Cerberus I wouldn't have the choice at all... and he is 100% pro human so cant see why not.
I hope we get to work with Cerberus in ME3

[Lolhaxx]

I wish you have the option to tell him "Your 4 billion credits well spent" after you blow up the Collector's base.

[pelhikano]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

That means I don't worry about the choices having a real impact in the game. The choices in ME1 only had cosmetic impact. The story didn't change at all. The same will happen in ME3.

True, I don't expect anything from it other than an extra weapon available or something lame like that. Still, character-wise depending on how you play your Shepard it's a valid decision.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

I chose to blow it up. Cerberus is not the only ones against the Reapers, there are others. If they are fully committed, then come what may, it is to be hoped that they are eonough and that the rest who are not, will wake up in time to recognise the truth.

Thus far, Cerberus has only shown that there are many divisions within the org and they are not even in accord with one another. Individual actions were taken without TIM's knowledge, at the expense of innocents, so preserving the base and handing it over to Cerberus is akin to putting a bullet in your back. Nobody is ready or able to assume responsibility for the tech in the base. It will just be misused and liekly , more lives lost in the march to gain control of it.

Modifié par Obsidian Gryphon, 05 février 2010 - 11:56 .

[MutantSpleen]

"Some times you have to sacrifice 1000 lives to save a million." I remember my Shepard saying that in ME1.



But sure lets just blow up our best chance at finding a weakness in the Reapers.



Hell its my theory that the only reason your alive is because Cerberus using Reaper tech on you. I bet you anything there is some truth to that. All the parts of Sovereign magically disappeared...uh huh.

[stillnotking]

I think Samara said it best: "The Illusive Man believes he possesses the wisdom to use that technology. He does not."

[That Confused 1]

i7206 wrote...

About the whole tech outstretching culture thing, humans seemed to manage alright after finding the Prothean ruins on Mars. So I'm not sure about that angle.

And the argument about developing the way reapers want is completely moot, because their is no way in hell they expected anyone to find the collector base in the galactic core.

The main issue is TIM. He could be do/be anything. Probably not even human.

Yet, the base is composed of nothing but Old Machine Technologies with a skeleton formation of whatever remains of Prothean technology being the infrastructure.  As such, it would easily fall within the limited research path the Old Machines desire organics to follow even if it is captured.  It shouldn't be any surprise if there is some form of indoctrination found on the base and  used on  "living" collectors to follow the possesed Collector General/Harbinger least be to force a small percentage of captured humans to willingly be converted to the perverted forms such as the Scion or husk.

A dead Old Machine was still aware enough to force human researchers to their doom, a base souly focused on pacifing humans and using them for Old Machine agendas poses the same risk even if empty of Collectors.  The link between the Collector General and Harbinger could very well be established by the base being an external "organ" for Harbinger acting the same manner as a Quantum Entanglement Communicator which could prove fatal for any organic research teams.

Modifié par That Confused 1, 07 février 2010 - 10:17 .

[asaiasai]

I for one am more interested in how Bioware is going to incorporate this decision into the final installment. The plot twist of either decision, i for one am going to have to make a specific character that does indeed save the base, but for the most part regardless of the other choices i make i destroy the base. It is like handing a book of matches to a child the outcome is going to be bad.



Asai

[SouperTrooper]

SunfighterG8 wrote...

In my game there seems to be a build up towards a large civil war in the citadel between humans and the rest of the races. The tech from that base could help humanity keep control over the races long enough to forge a unified front against the reapers. I get the feeling that blowing the base and losing the tech could mean the galaxy will be fractured and weakened by a coming internal conflict by the time the reapers arrive.

I blew the base anyways, the harder path is always more fun =D!

Wow that is so cool.  I didn't realize the game could be that different from one player to the next.  I guess you opted to let the council die and put humanity in charge during ME1.  My decision might have been different had I come across that sort of sentiment from the other races.  My shep had saved the council in ME1 so humans were left playing the 4th wheel on a tricycle as far as place in council went.  That sort of made me want to keep the base but I didn't want to hand it over to cerberus.  I have an inherent mistrust of gigantic coporations in real life and in games.  Besides I wanted to end the game with a bang, so to say.

[Clumsy Ninja]

Aiken Drum wrote...

Every time people have messed with Reaper tech it has gone poorly. I blew it without a moment's heartsearching. Sure the tech could be useful, but the price and the risks were too great. There was no way I was going to set TIM and Cerberus up with that. They couldn't even control mindless Rachni and Thorian Creepers, so letting them loose on the Collector base? I'd rather give a monkey a nuclear trigger disguised as a banana.

But your new Normandy rebuilt by Cerberus uses Sovereign's Reaper tech (according to EDI after she became free to talk about herself more)... and the new Normandy is badass.  And you owe your rebirth to Reaper tech, no?  That's why I saved the base, despite being a Paragon.  However, I've begun to suspect Shepard will return to the Alliance for part 3 given the tone of the final conversation with the Illusive Man, so therefore giving Cerberus an advantage may not exactly be the best thing for the Galaxy or.  But if you continue to work for Cerberus in part 3, then I think saving the base was probably the way to go. 

I kinda' hope you do continue the relationship with Cerberus... at least Cerberus never doubted the intel you gathered.  And you know what?, In NG+, when ou go back to the Alliance at the Citadel after the Reapers arrive (again), they should be all, "Wow, looks like you were right about the reaper threat.  Again.  Come back to us Shepard.  Come back home.  Here's your 10,000,000 credites we took from your account when you died."  But nooooooo.

Modifié par Clumsy Ninja, 08 février 2010 - 03:16 .

[Remaix]

I might have trusted the base with someone else. With TIM, though? Not a chance. I don't really care what that guy has to say to me. I don't trust him. Especially not with Reaper technology. There's too many risks involved. Not worth it. There are other ways to combat the Reapers.

[TudorWolf]

I lean towards destruction usually. While Cerberus may be the only group actually willing to believe and aid Shep, I feel they're doing it for the wrong reasons. TIM only cares about humanity, my Shep is trying to save everyone (well, maybe not the Batarians ¬_¬)

[Kelmen Wong]

in the Art of War, knowing your enemy is one of the important factor to defeat them.

The Collector Base can help reveal much of the enemy.

Regardless of the Renegade effect, imo its really worth to keep it.



Remember, we all use the enemy IFF code, which enable the team to reach the base.

That's part of the irony.

[mortons4ck]

My Shepard found myself buying more and more into TIM's schpeel. True, my Shepard was total paragon, saving the Rachni, saving the council, keeping the Genophage data, reprogramming the Heretics, and imploring the Quarians NOT to go to war. That speech TIM gave when I was having doubts about blowing up the station was enough to convince me to save it.



But when I saw that smile creep across his face at the end. I knew then that I had just made a terrible mistake.

[Vanaer]

mortons4ck wrote...

My Shepard found myself buying more and more into TIM's schpeel. True, my Shepard was total paragon, saving the Rachni, saving the council, keeping the Genophage data, reprogramming the Heretics, and imploring the Quarians NOT to go to war. That speech TIM gave when I was having doubts about blowing up the station was enough to convince me to save it.

But when I saw that smile creep across his face at the end. I knew then that I had just made a terrible mistake.

Quite the same here... Still, I wanna keep it, but TIM... mweah...

[Inquisitor Recon]

I would have probably trusted that base to the Systems Alliance. Hell, perhaps I would have saved it if TIM had done a more convincing job. When I said "next thing you know, you'll be trying to make your own reaper" I would have at least liked him to disagree with such a statement.



After seeing the incompetence of Cerberus science teams on multiple occasions, he can scrounge through the wreckage if he wants.

[thegoldfinch]

No, no, and no. That mess got blown up.



The Illusive Man has proven to my colonist Shepard that he is a TERRIBLE leader. You can't give 100% leniency to all of your organization divisions while throwing fistfuls of money at them and expect the best outcome every time. This is why Jack's tragedy occurred. This is why Mindoir occurred. No one was there to say, hey, that's not a very good idea and maybe you should stop hurting these people. He can't wrap his creepy little head around that.



For all the good any one Cerberus indulgence brings, they have made an abomination of fifty other projects.