437 réponses à ce sujet

[Mnemnosyne]

That 'every time people use reaper tech it ends badly' line is so much bull****.



All galactic civilization is based on the mass relays, which means all galactic civilization is based on reaper tech. This isn't inherently bad, cause y'know what would have happened if we hadn't used the mass relays and so on? We'd have been harvested along with other intelligent life before we even got a chance to do anything about it.



And as noted, the Normandy SR-2 has a lot of reaper tech incorporated into it, from EDI and some of her components constructed from Sovereign, to the reaper viruses she uses in her cyberwarfare, to the Thanix Cannon which is based on Sovereign's main cannon. What would have happened without EDI, or with a significantly less advanced EDI that wasn't based on reaper tech? She would never have been able to hack the Collector ship, so Shepard would have wound up caught by the Collectors' trap.



Like any other technological advancement, when applied intelligently, reaper tech has benefited us, and when applied poorly or fumbled about with in ignorance, it has been detrimental. Simple as that.



Of course, none of that makes the forced choice any more palatable. It's a moronic forced choice and one that Shepard should be able to take a third option on, such as delivering the base to the Alliance. Admiral Hackett would so be the right person to administrate that.

[horas1990]

Ok this was a veryy hard choice for me bec i really didnt see a good and bad to it. then i remembered that im giving it to Cerebus. I wouldn't find it hard to believe that they themselves would try to recreate the reaper killing millions of humans or using the tech to wage war on the rest of the galaxy's races for human domination. Hell even the illusive man admits it after i destroyed the base he sais something like you just ended the chances for humans to dominate the galaxy. I responded by saying humanity's domination or cerebus domination. TIM claimed they are the same thing. Clearly TIM cannot be trusted with such tech as he is a power hungry person whether he means well or not. People who fanatically believe that the end justifies the means should not be trusted.

[BlazingEclipse]

 Even though I do not trust TIM, it might be a better idea of giving him the base. You do not know his full intentions but at least you know he wants to stop the reapers and is doing something about it. The worthless council still doesn't believe you after everything you did for them and will be caught completely off guard when the reapers arrive and be of no help. With the Normandy upgrades you were able to BARELY destroy the collector ship. Even though the collectors use some reaper technology it's still not an actual reaper ship. Even if, the Normandy can't stand up to thousands of reaper ships alone and Cerberus is a better ally than none. At least TIM might be able to find their weakness and once the invasion is over you can deal with whatever plans he has after. Miranda does know where he lives.

[Taltherion]

I blew it up. I don't trust Cerberus and I have repeatedly tried (successfully?) to also build a defense against them (had the data you had to rescue uploaded to my personal files, in conversation I always insisted that I do NOT work FOR Cerberus etc). Think of all the cruel experiments Cerberus did (Jack, Rachni, Thoreans, husks ...) ... they won't use the technology only to stop the reapers. Will the galaxy better off with the reapers stopped but Cerberus in charge?

And ... I'm not sure, but in the end, Joker shows you a PDA and while I was tired I think I saw reaper technology on the PDA ... TIM might not have the base ... but I seem to have a lot of data from the collector's base.

Modifié par Taltherion, 06 avril 2010 - 01:45 .

[ResidentNoob]

I destroyed it, primarily because, as I recall, the last time we tried to use Reaper tech, it blew up in our faces and the Collectors kidnapped the entire crew. If we give it to Cerberus, the Reapers will probably just remotely detonate it anyway to stop us getting their technology; they know the Collectors failed. As funny as that would be to see, it's just a bad idea.

I'd rather trust the Council. At least (if we manage to convince them in ME3) they can rally their respective races to fight the Reapers. Cerberus isn't even responsible for humanity; Anderson is.

Seriously, what the hell could Cerberus possibly do against that?

[GodWood]

I kept the base.
Why?



We need all the help we can get to defeat these things.

Modifié par GodWood, 06 avril 2010 - 02:15 .

[Nu-Nu]

I destroyed it because I think people who kept it are going to end being Terminator's brain and as awesome as that sounds it's not for me and Terminator will probaly need a few more million people to finish it off.

Modifié par Nu-Nu, 06 avril 2010 - 03:15 .

[Nightwriter]

Yeah, I thought, I ought to keep it - because Cerberus scientists have proven themselves to be SO trustworthy with studying dangerous technology before. THAT never goes wrong...

And then I thought, wait, oh yeah, it always does. P'raps I should make da base asplode.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 06 avril 2010 - 02:48 .

[Nu-Nu]

Yeah, if Cereberus wasn't in charged, I'd be tempted to keep it. All those lives shouldn't have gone to waste and we could have found more info or a weakness on the reapers. But well, I don't trust cereberus.

[Vanguard Of Destruction]

I blew up the base for one reason, there was a quote Sovereign said in ME1 'you use the technology of the mass relays, your society develops along the paths we have planned' I dont want the cycle to keep continuing. So I am going to destroy every last piece of Reaper technology (if I have the option too) so the universe can start again without their aid, and of course you do end up giving the base to Cerberus and I wouldn't trust the illusive man with anything that powerful.

[The Governator]

I did not think twice about it.  I destroy the base every single time.  If TIM wants it, then I don't want him to have it.

[The Governator]

Vanguard Of Destruction wrote...

I blew up the base for one reason, there was a quote Sovereign said in ME1 'you use the technology of the mass relays, your society develops along the paths we have planned' I dont want the cycle to keep continuing. So I am going to destroy every last piece of Reaper technology (if I have the option too) so the universe can start again without their aid, and of course you do end up giving the base to Cerberus and I wouldn't trust the illusive man with anything that powerful.

What about EDI?

[Vanguard Of Destruction]

I never trusted EDI

[Xaijin]

If the anyone other than TIM would have had it, I might have kept it for study.



Given TIM's volks-sprechen and the fact that adopting Reaper tech NEVER works out long term, splat.

[Masticetobbacco]

destroy it to ****** of Cerberus and deny TIM the technology. Shepard and his crew can rejoin alliance, fugitives of Cerberus. Jacbo prolly wouldnt mind, and Miranda just quit Cerb. Everyone else would be cool about it. Dunno what Zaeed would do, stick with shepard or leave after the job is done?



I would think if you gave the base to Cerberus, they would all just go crazy and get indoctrinated, and that would deal a heavy blow to Cerberus, as well as keeping them busy from causing any harm, while still receving weapons and technology from them. Eventually they will betray you, but by then theyve all gone crazy

[LagAdder]

My personal impulse was to blow the station up. Not just to ****** off the
elusive man, but to eradicate any possible danger.

What gave me 2nd thoughts, were in fact Mordin's words. He agreed with the elusive man to the point, that the knowledge about the enemy that can be gained ist far too important to blow this thing up.

Then another thing came to mind: Evidence. Even if Cerberus were to get their dirty hands on this station, I wanted it to exist as evidence for the council and all the naysayers that would discard the whole reaper-thing as a myth.

What really got to me, was that I did not have a choice to give the station to the council or the alliance (or at least involve them by giving them all the critical information, so cerberus wouldn't hold all the cards alone).

It especially hurt, since Mordin later an told me: "Keeping the station was good, but giving it to Cerberus was bad." (as if I had a choice whom to give it to).

Even though I will stick with my decision. I have bad feeling about this. Honestly, the first thing I wanted to say when I first met the elusive man, was: "You have Saren's Eyes."

My gut tells me the next battle against the Reapers will also be one against Cerberus. I've never forgotten their cruel experiments I've witnessed in ME1 (sent the files on those to the alliance, not the shadow broker).

Modifié par LagAdder, 19 avril 2010 - 12:16 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Taltherion wrote...

I blew it up. I don't trust Cerberus and I have repeatedly tried (successfully?) to also build a defense against them (had the data you had to rescue uploaded to my personal files, in conversation I always insisted that I do NOT work FOR Cerberus etc). Think of all the cruel experiments Cerberus did (Jack, Rachni, Thoreans, husks ...) ... they won't use the technology only to stop the reapers. Will the galaxy better off with the reapers stopped but Cerberus in charge?

If you give any weight to survival over likely extinction, yes. Plenty of people say sure, give me liberty or give me death, but this isn't about you. This is about everyone else. Are you really going to take the position that human dominance is worse than galactic extinction? And not merely one galactic extinction, mind you: many, many more as the cycle continues but the Reapers are prepared for it.

A lot of the bad things that people are agast about Cerberus doing, such as Jack, Akuze, and so on, were actually done back when Cerberus was still officially part of the Alliance. Which not only makes the Alliance responsible, but also the Citadel as well, because the Council is responsible for its member actions in the same way (and, let's face it, the Council has it's own great list of dirty laundry). If you object to giving the Base to Cerberus, there really isn't anyone in the Galaxy you could justify giving the base to.

And ... I'm not sure, but in the end, Joker shows you a PDA and while I was tired I think I saw reaper technology on the PDA ... TIM might not have the base ... but I seem to have a lot of data from the collector's base.

Yeah. Because the entire end-game choice was going to be irrevocably mooted regardless because you got all the data you needed.

[/sarcasm]

You saw a picture of a Reaper. That's it, really. Maybe a bit more, like it's name, but imagine if you were to try and recreate a P-51 Mustang from a photo and some publicly available stats... back in WW1. As opposed to an aircraft factory.

However much (and remember, it's likely little) you got, it's insignificant compared to what you would have gotten had you kept the base, kept the technology, and had full and unlimited access to the base computers and what not. Ignore the 'but Edi could have downloaded it all' theories: the entire point of the decision at the end of the game is that you had a choice of getting a major tech windfall, or not. It's explicit in the game itself, even if it is a bit heavy handed in the delivery.

[WandererRTF]

Well... In the game universe it seemed if you go using Reaper tech - granted, some exception like the Citadel etc. but even those were in the end just part of an elaborate trap - (or apparently even certain parts) you are gonna get whole lot of indoctrinated folks and quite soon whole lot of husks.



The Cerberus team on the Reaper corpse which probably were full aware of the risk of indoctrination yet ended up as husks and scions...

Or the research team in ME which encountered a small ancient relic and then happily impaled themselves on dragon's tooth...

Or the freighter crew which did just about the same (after relic encounter flew to geth/sovereign just to be huskified)...

Or the human colony which after being gifted IIRC by Cerberus with handful of dragons tooth and possibly some other related material turned into a colony of husks...

Or the mining team in ME2 which encountered a slightly glowing artifact and found themselves first unable to move away from it then indoctrinated and last but not least huskified...



Given that Collectors seemed to have independently of Reapers (possibly and very likely indoctrination as well as) husk/scion/praetorian creation tech it would be suicidal to send a team to the base. Does any one really think that a long term exposure or 'expedition' to the collector base would have had any other result than moar husks? Though.. you could also end up with lot of husks and then handful of indoctrinated scientists working for the Reapers instead of Cerberus... TIM should be happy with the data the Normandy took from there as well as in the salvaging of the seemingly countless ships they had in other side of Omega 4 relay.



Base and the reaper contaminated - so to speak - junk needed to go.

[mosor]

I kept the base on my renegade playthrough. Killed the Rachni, kept the krogan neutered, destroyed the heretics, urged the quarians to war. Humanity is gonna need some sort of edge if it's it going to fight the reapers without allies.

[Dean_the_Young]

WandererRTF wrote...

Well... In the game universe it seemed if you go using Reaper tech - granted, some exception like the Citadel etc. but even those were in the end just part of an elaborate trap - (or apparently even certain parts) you are gonna get whole lot of indoctrinated folks and quite soon whole lot of husks.

The Cerberus team on the Reaper corpse which probably were full aware of the risk of indoctrination yet ended up as husks and scions...
Or the research team in ME which encountered a small ancient relic and then happily impaled themselves on dragon's tooth...
Or the freighter crew which did just about the same (after relic encounter flew to geth/sovereign just to be huskified)...
Or the human colony which after being gifted IIRC by Cerberus with handful of dragons tooth and possibly some other related material turned into a colony of husks...
Or the mining team in ME2 which encountered a slightly glowing artifact and found themselves first unable to move away from it then indoctrinated and last but not least huskified...

Given that Collectors seemed to have independently of Reapers (possibly and very likely indoctrination as well as) husk/scion/praetorian creation tech it would be suicidal to send a team to the base. Does any one really think that a long term exposure or 'expedition' to the collector base would have had any other result than moar husks? Though.. you could also end up with lot of husks and then handful of indoctrinated scientists working for the Reapers instead of Cerberus... TIM should be happy with the data the Normandy took from there as well as in the salvaging of the seemingly countless ships they had in other side of Omega 4 relay.

Base and the reaper contaminated - so to speak - junk needed to go.

With the exception of the 4th issue (I don't recal Cerberus giving a colony Dragon Teeth), those are all examples of people being unprepared for the unknown properties of Indoctrination: they thought the derilect reaper was actually dead like Sovereign, didn't know what they were dealing with, etc. That isn't the corruption of Reaper tech, that's just Reaper deliberate intent, and overcoming Indoctrination is one of the biggest advantages you can have before the Reapers come.

If you read the Derilect Reaper AAR, it mentions that Cerberus was drafting new protocols to deal with passive indoctrination fields like with the Derilect Reaper. Even ignorring that there was never any indication that there was indoctrination risk at the Collector Base, Cerberus already has plans to deal with any passive effect. That means no Husk self-sacrifice, and that Indoctrination can be studied from the tech itself in order to develop countermeasures.

Passive indoctrination a valid fear, but it's one that was already overcome by Cerberus.

[fable13]

Ok, I did not destroy the base in my first play through. But I am going to now in my second. I am actually looking forward to the consequences in ME3.



But, this is something I have been thinking about for a while now. When playing through ME2 again, and knowing of the Collector threat and having to fight them in Horizon. After that, you can think back to Shepards speech about sacrificing 1000 to save a million. Why did they not just go for the Omega 4 Relay? Why did they not just go and blow it to pieces. That way, the Collecters could not get through. Or am I missing something big here?

[Wildecker]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

A lot of the bad things that people are agast about Cerberus doing, such as Jack, Akuze, and so on, were actually done back when Cerberus was still officially part of the Alliance. Which not only makes the Alliance responsible, but also the Citadel as well, because the Council is responsible for its member actions in the same way (and, let's face it, the Council has it's own great list of dirty laundry). If you object to giving the Base to Cerberus, there really isn't anyone in the Galaxy you could justify giving the base to.

In essence you're explaining that the United Nations are to blame for Guantanamo and Stalin's Gulags. Because at the respective dates the countries running those camps were member states of the UN, and the UN Just Let It Happen. Wow.

[Daralii]

Shandepared wrote...

fable13 wrote...

Ok, I did not destroy the base in my first play through. But I am going to now in my second. I am actually looking forward to the consequences in ME3.

But, this is something I have been thinking about for a while now. When playing through ME2 again, and knowing of the Collector threat and having to fight them in Horizon. After that, you can think back to Shepards speech about sacrificing 1000 to save a million. Why did they not just go for the Omega 4 Relay? Why did they not just go and blow it to pieces. That way, the Collecters could not get through. Or am I missing something big here?

Relays are hard to destroy

Given that the Mu Relay survived a supernova unscathed, I think that's a bit of an understatement.


On topic, blow the base to hell every time. I'm not about to opt to utilize Reaper tech, and I'm sure as hell not going to let TIM. This has been Sole Survivor Shep being angry.

[Impactisan]

Keeping the base means you still follow the same path the reapers want all living things to doo. 
Remember what Sovereign said on Virmire? 

T.I.M might have made good/bad choices, but I believe its actually him who is shortsighted at that point..
Blowing the base up means the reapers cant use it against while they arrive and that organics finally goes theyre own path in the galaxy.