32 réponses à ce sujet

[Wishpig]

The Oghren thread made me wonder, bioware, what was the reason behind making Oghren and Sten serve the SAME purpose?

Poor Sten gets screwed over cause he only has 1 specilization point... as opposed to Oggy who has 2 and starts out as a Beserker.

And poor Oggy gets screwed over cause by the time most people get him they don't need him and wave him off.

Add this too the fact Alistair, Dog, and Shale serve similar warrior like roles...

Wouldn't it have been pretty damn easy to make Oghren a strength based dual-wielding beserker? Whats more dwarfy then leaping into combat with two axes?

I've always been curious as to how this came about.

This isn't flaming or 'nothin, I just have always wondered about this...

[Sarielle]

My dog is definitely not a tank. He is a mage-chomping, boss-eating monster (go go overwhelm pumping only strength!)



Shale can also become much more DPS-y, depending on how you allocate skills.



I do see your point about Sten and Oghren, though. I have been playing on easy for successive playthroughs so I don't have to optimize my party at all.

[Wishpig]

Sarielle wrote...

My dog is definitely not a tank. He is a mage-chomping, boss-eating monster (go go overwhelm pumping only strength!)

Shale can also become much more DPS-y, depending on how you allocate skills.

I do see your point about Sten and Oghren, though. I have been playing on easy for successive playthroughs so I don't have to optimize my party at all.

Shale could range from DPS to Tank as well as Alistair, Oghren, and Sten. Your right that dog is best when you go overwhelm, and it does make him feel unique if you pick that path.

[Sarielle]

Hmm, I haven't tried to make Alistair into DPS. I assume you make him into something other than Sword and Shield for that?



Not that it'll matter on current playthrough. I think she's gonna run him off any day now >.>;

[RedSocialKnight]

Sarielle wrote...

My dog is definitely not a tank. He is a mage-chomping, boss-eating monster (go go overwhelm pumping only strength!)

Shale can also become much more DPS-y, depending on how you allocate skills.

This just emphasizes OP's point. The two secondary tanks can also be DPS-warrior-like, in addition to the two interchangeable DPS warriors, plus the PC (DPS warrior is a very common PC character choice, almost the default), plus Zevran who is also melee DPS.

All combining to mean that players have few choices for tanks and way more melee DPS than we will ever use, leading to any melee DPS you don't get early being under-utilised.

[Wishpig]

Sarielle wrote...

Hmm, I haven't tried to make Alistair into DPS. I assume you make him into something other than Sword and Shield for that?

Not that it'll matter on current playthrough. I think she's gonna run him off any day now >.>;

I made him a dual wielder on my 2nd playthrough. Since his attacks drain mana it's a pretty good combo.You get him soon enough to custimize him easily.

[Sarielle]

I'd just assume the lot of melee companions exist (though I'm not sure where you get that melee warrior is "almost the default" choice for PCs...I'd like to see where those numbers) simply because there are more melee options, class-wise, than anything else. I mean heck, you can even make a very powerful melee mage.

[Loerwyn]

Sten - 2H Warrior

Oghren - 2H Warrior

Alastair - S&B Warrior

SecretGuy - S&B Warrior IIRC

Zevran - DW Rogue

Dog - Melee Warrior (sort of)

Shale - Melee Warrior (sort of)

Wynne - Healer

Leliana - Ranged Rogue

Morrigan - DPS Mage

That's how it breaks down if you go by the standard/implied builds for each character you can recruit. I'd say it was heavily skewed towards melee combat, especially considering (for me, at least) the large amount of drops that relate to melee combat (weapons, armor etc)

[RangerSG]

I'd say it's heavily skewed towards melee since that's what 99% of the world is. Mages are rare, very rare. So as a point of fact having 2 mages is actually rather fortuitous in an in-world sense.



But if you look at it in the 'party balance' sense, you have (not counting Shale, who is DLC), 2 meat-shield possibilities, 5 DPS characters, 1 utility rogue and 1 healer. So yes, it's slanted to DPS...but that said, a solid party 'needs' 2 DPS characters. And Zevran can be specced easily into the utility role as well. Specing Morrigan as a healer is possible, though difficult and not necessarily consistent with her in-game character.



The point is, you have enough characters to fill all the in-game roles you will run across. So there's effective party-balance. How you avail yourself to that is a different question.

[Wishpig]

RangerSG wrote...

I'd say it's heavily skewed towards melee since that's what 99% of the world is. Mages are rare, very rare. So as a point of fact having 2 mages is actually rather fortuitous in an in-world sense.

You have a Golemn, a Quanari, and the daughter of the Witch of the Wilds... three mages would hardly be a stretch. Although, I suppose your right, cause in the end two wrongs don't make a right.

[RangerSG]

Wishpig wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

I'd say it's heavily skewed towards melee since that's what 99% of the world is. Mages are rare, very rare. So as a point of fact having 2 mages is actually rather fortuitous in an in-world sense.

You have a Golemn, a Quanari, and the daughter of the Witch of the Wilds... three mages would hardly be a stretch. Although, I suppose your right, cause in the end two wrongs don't make a right.

Well, as I noted, I don't count like counting Shale because that's DLC, not the base product. But are mages rare or are they not? By lore they are. That your character runs into an apostate does not make the event (in-game) less fortuitous.

[Relband]

Well, looking at the sheer number of enemy mages you get to dispatch in your journeys they do not seem that rare at all - provided you are interested in apostates and maleficarum, as the good guys cannot go out for a swim in Lake Calenhad without First Enchanter's written permission. And with Morrigan you get an apostate mage with huge potential early on, so there is really no need for another one. What would be cool, in a way, though, would be the possibility to select a Tower of Magi companion rather to be stuck with Wynne - a male mage in the party would be nice.

[Angelonedge]

You get Sten rather quickly in game, and since he has only 1 spec you can easily devote your time in making him a Shield warrior or a duel weilder. My setup is Sten Dual, Oghren Double handed, and Alistair Shield.

[RangerSG]

Angelonedge wrote...

You get Sten rather quickly in game, and since he has only 1 spec you can easily devote your time in making him a Shield warrior or a duel weilder. My setup is Sten Dual, Oghren Double handed, and Alistair Shield.

It's also very easy to shift Alistair over to dual-wield if you wish.

[Vaeliorin]

RangerSG wrote...

Angelonedge wrote...
You get Sten rather quickly in game, and since he has only 1 spec you can easily devote your time in making him a Shield warrior or a duel weilder. My setup is Sten Dual, Oghren Double handed, and Alistair Shield.

It's also very easy to shift Alistair over to dual-wield if you wish.

Not only that, but you don't have to be S&B to tank.  I've had successful playthroughs with Oghren, Sten and Shale as tanks.

Essentially, if they're a warrior, they can tank.

[Angelonedge]

Vaeliorin wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

Angelonedge wrote...
You get Sten rather quickly in game, and since he has only 1 spec you can easily devote your time in making him a Shield warrior or a duel weilder. My setup is Sten Dual, Oghren Double handed, and Alistair Shield.

It's also very easy to shift Alistair over to dual-wield if you wish.

Not only that, but you don't have to be S&B to tank.  I've had successful playthroughs with Oghren, Sten and Shale as tanks.

Essentially, if they're a warrior, they can tank.

While that might be true due to the warrior's main talents, and pumping them up with Constitution; the S&B Warrior has the better talent tree's for tanking due to his Shield.

[Angelonedge]

In my play throughs the most party members that fall in battle/recieve the most injuries are Sten and Oghren until you get them leveled higher. Early in the game, I hardly ever use Sten because if Allistair is not there to help, he goes down extremely quickly. My party setup is usually Leliana for ranged/bow, Morrigan or Wynne as healers, and Allistair/Sten/Oghren for warrior/tank. My character basically just does whatever, as an Arcane Warrior I do a little of both AOE magic and DPS with a shield (it still helps to deflect attacks) or if I'm my Rogue I make sure to use my stuns and backstabs.

[Angelonedge]

DOUBLE POST FTL!

Modifié par Angelonedge, 31 janvier 2010 - 02:40 .

[metalmunkey]

I do see a two big problems listed in the post that I hope is addressed in Awakening though, We have Alistair, Sten, Oggy, Shale, and possibly the dog to choose from when it comes to melee warriors (unless you get the respec crows, than you get 4 choices of any kind of warrior).



However, you only get 2 mages to pick from and only 2 rogues to pick from. The Rogues I can understand, but mages can vary in a whole lot of different specialties. I wouldn't mind being able to pick up Oggy earlier and dumping out Sten for a third mage choice.

[Wowlock]

Dont forget popular 2handed Wardens



That makes 3, 2-handed warrior.



I was selfish enough to keep Starfang for myself

[Angelonedge]

Wowlock wrote...

Dont forget popular 2handed Wardens

That makes 3, 2-handed warrior.

I was selfish enough to keep Starfang for myself

I haven't played as a Warrior yet, but I'm thinking about it, and I will do the same with Starfang. All my other characters have it as a longsword. The way I look at it is, your main character needs the most powerful weapon; as he's the one that the story/game is centered around.

[Dlokir]

The companions roles has been match to the standard party composition: 1 Mage, 1 Rogue, 2 Warriors. For this 2 mages, 2 Rogues and 4 Warriors do the trick with no unballance.

But it's clear that 1 Mage, 1 Rogue, 2 Warriors is only one team composition among many. Moreoever It's hard to not build a party without any rogue because of the lockpicking and it's hard to not build a party without any mage because of the cleric role of the mages. At the reverse it's totally possible to build a standard party with no warrior.

Also it's more in the natural flow of the story to keep Alistair than Sten, so offer a Stern replacement makes more sense.

So what was initialy a good spreading of roles among all companions available ends in a quite bad setup. Also when you replay the game, you are looking to less standard party setup like with no Alistair and no Morrigan and then you are hurt more by the role speading of companions.

That said, the game doesn't need tank. In my first play I didn't optimized Alistair enough to make him a fair tank. And now I'm playing with no tank and two 2H warriors and that's fun and brings many positive points. In fact I'll soon be able to get Oghren and I'm looking to use a mod that fix the lockpicking bug to allow make a party with 1 mage and three 2H warriors.

The disapointement is that the secret companion isn't 2H too so I could make a party of four 4H warriors. :happy:

[Viglin]

Wishpig wrote...

The Oghren thread made me wonder, bioware, what was the reason behind making Oghren and Sten serve the SAME purpose?

Poor Sten gets screwed over cause he only has 1 specilization point... as opposed to Oggy who has 2 and starts out as a Beserker.

And poor Oggy gets screwed over cause by the time most people get him they don't need him and wave him off.

Add this too the fact Alistair, Dog, and Shale serve similar warrior like roles...

Wouldn't it have been pretty damn easy to make Oghren a strength based dual-wielding beserker? Whats more dwarfy then leaping into combat with two axes?

I've always been curious as to how this came about.

This isn't flaming or 'nothin, I just have always wondered about this...

Maybe for a roleplay point of view?...and lve always seen Dwarves as either wielding huge battleaxes or axe/shield combo as my idea of the "dwarf warrior".
Sten is a huge, muscular single minded warrior...perfect for a 2hander.

Not everyone looks to be elite power players.

[Rolenka]

Not to mention specializations: 

Alistair: Templar, S&B

Secret Companion: Champion, S&B

Oghren: Berserker, 2H

Sten should have been a DW Reaver.