115 réponses à ce sujet

[hawat333]

Discuss.

[The_mango55]

It's not ethical, but honestly it's necessary unless the Krogan do something to check their own population, which they clearly have no interest in doing.



If you read the codex about the Salarians, they could easily have an even greater overpopulation problem than the Krogan, but they have figured out ways to keep the population under control.



"The salarians are amphibian haplo-diploid egg-layers; unfertilized eggs produce males and fertilized eggs produce females. Once a year, a salarian female will lay a clutch of dozens of eggs. Social rules prevent all but a fraction from being fertilized. As a result, 90% of the species is male."

[SunfighterG8]

I found his speech at the dead female krogan to be the best acting part in the game, had some good emotions behind it. You could feel is internal conflict with logic and spirituality.

Modifié par SunfighterG8, 31 janvier 2010 - 12:49 .

[Deku Scrub]

Mordin's logic seemed solid- a genophage is preferable to extinction. A warlike people with nearly unlimited numbers don't leave you with many options.

[Surberus]

It was def a complex choice for me. I don't really support the Genophage - so far in the series Ive leaned towards defending a race's right to live, but I realized that unchecked Krogan growth could cause the universe terrible problems. And with that, after dealing with Saren, and the Reapers, the universe might not survive another big threat like this.

[bensmith91]

I see it from his point of view. It is a justifiable evil because of the possibility of worse outcomes. Especially since the genophage only causes infertility, not death. That said, I think there is an argument to be made about whether or not they should be playing God or not. I certainly liked this storyline, one of my favorites thus far. (I'm only about halfway through at this point)

[BS Veyron]

In one sense I feel sorry for the Krogan and would like to see a cure for the Genophage but I also agree with Mordin that the Krogan need to be controlled because they continue to prove that they are a threat to galatic peace in large numbers.

[JudgeQwerty]

I kept the cure because while I admit more kropgans in the galaxy is probably a bad idea, their current situation is a bit more harsh than it should. Hopefully we'll get it it up to a more comfortabe birthrate that doesn't result in a Krogan Empire.

[agrue]

If it had affected the fertilization rate instead of causing 99% stillbirths, no one would ever know the genophage existed.

[bensmith91]

Mordin specifically says it only affects fertility when he defends his work; this contradicts the stillbirths concept that is said elsewhere, but I would trust the designer of the genophage over information from somewhere else

[JudgeQwerty]

The krogans were adapting to the genopahage, hence going from infertility to failed pregancies. If the Salarians hadn't reapplied the genophage, they'd have eventually overcome it altogether

[Nimander]

Well, they would have, but yes. It's the stillbirth thing that is the main issue. That's damaging to the Krogan /spirit/ and is what puts the genophage beyond the ken for me.

[V4nBl00d]

In my opinion, the genophage was right, or at least preferable to total extinction. Cure the genophage in ME 2 has never been an option to me because, let's be honest, 99% of all Krogans are stupid ****** berserks and from these 99%, 99% are less more than final repositories for bullets. I think they would be going the right way with Wrex as a leader (if you let him live on Virmire, which I didn't) but even if he succeeded, it would take much more time to profe that the krogans are ready to be released.

Modifié par V4nBl00d, 26 avril 2010 - 11:22 .

[Masticetobbacco]

V4nBl00d wrote...

In my opinion, the genophage was right, or at least preferable to total extinction. Cure the genophage in ME 2 has never been an option to me because, let's be honest, 99% of all Krogans are stupid ****** berserks and from these 99%, 99% are less more than final repositories for bullets. I think they would be going the right way with Wrex as a leader (if you let him live on Virmire, which I didn't) but even if he succeeded, it would take much more time to profe that the krogans are ready to be released.

was nuking the japanese also the right descision?

[Polka14]

The Krogan population is at four billion at Tuchanka alone. The Krogan are far from extinction; the purpose of the genophage is the control the Krogan population as it would not threaten other spacefaring civilizations. I do not even consider this to be an ethical debate. The genophage was absolutely necessary.

[janeym27]

Mordin is an insanly well written character. His LM is fantastic.



I'm still torn on the ethics of the genophage itsself. I can see why it was employed, and it was really a last resort: better population control than genocide. However, it's still horrific. Can't really answer the genophage ethics question (every time I play his LM, I become less sure of my opinion. I do wish there was a way to be paragon or neutralwithout being so mean to Mordin though.)



However, something I do feel strongly with regard to Mordin and ethics is this: Mordin was right to get involved based on what he believed. The genophage would have been adjusted with or without him (it had already been put into effect, so that descion was not even on his radar) and as he says himself, someone else would have messed it up. Were it messed up, genocide could have been the outcome. Mordin did not trust anyone else to handle such sensitive and precise work. He didn't decide to modify it, he simply made sure that when it was modified, it was done right.



If something unplesant needs to be done, it had better be done right. He felt it was needed. I think the ethics of his choice are different from the ethics of the genophage itself.

[Polka14]

Masticetobbacco wrote...

V4nBl00d wrote...

In my opinion, the genophage was right, or at least preferable to total extinction. Cure the genophage in ME 2 has never been an option to me because, let's be honest, 99% of all Krogans are stupid ****** berserks and from these 99%, 99% are less more than final repositories for bullets. I think they would be going the right way with Wrex as a leader (if you let him live on Virmire, which I didn't) but even if he succeeded, it would take much more time to profe that the krogans are ready to be released.

was nuking the japanese also the right descision?

Off-topic. Irrelevant.

[Masticetobbacco]

Polka14 wrote...

Masticetobbacco wrote...

V4nBl00d wrote...

In my opinion, the genophage was right, or at least preferable to total extinction. Cure the genophage in ME 2 has never been an option to me because, let's be honest, 99% of all Krogans are stupid ****** berserks and from these 99%, 99% are less more than final repositories for bullets. I think they would be going the right way with Wrex as a leader (if you let him live on Virmire, which I didn't) but even if he succeeded, it would take much more time to profe that the krogans are ready to be released.

was nuking the japanese also the right descision?

Off-topic. Irrelevant.

do you not see the obvious analogy. Nuking Japan was justified with the intent of: Saving more lives to quickly end the war.

[Polka14]

Nuking the Axis state of Japan was not done to control population to save others. Genophage done to save galaxy. Had to be done. Or else Krogan would rule the galaxy. Thanks for derailing this topic though. <_<

[prizm123]

i say we breed krogans to be our shock troopers when the reapers come....

[Polka14]

prizm123 wrote...

i say we breed krogans to be our shock troopers when the reapers come....

Who? The council? The Blue Suns wanted to do that.

[cos1ne]

Polka14 wrote...

Masticetobbacco wrote...

V4nBl00d wrote...

In my opinion, the genophage was right, or at least preferable to total extinction. Cure the genophage in ME 2 has never been an option to me because, let's be honest, 99% of all Krogans are stupid ****** berserks and from these 99%, 99% are less more than final repositories for bullets. I think they would be going the right way with Wrex as a leader (if you let him live on Virmire, which I didn't) but even if he succeeded, it would take much more time to profe that the krogans are ready to be released.

was nuking the japanese also the right descision?

Off-topic. Irrelevant.

I don't think it's off-topic. The question posed goes as, "Is it right to create a great suffering now, to prevent an even greater suffering in the future?"

The Salarians had all the data they could on how the Krogan would advance, and all of their greatest minds came to the conclusion that the Krogan would be a danger to themselves and others as a species and something had to be done. So they took it upon themselves to create the genophage knowing full well, the Krogan as a people would suffer greatly by it. Of course they probably overlooked the psychological trauma on the Krogan race of effectively being neutered.

In the first game I was very much against the genophage, seeing as I had grown to like Wrex and he made it seem like the Krogan were tragic victims. That being said in the second game, I began to understand Mordin's point of view, and realized I probably would have agreed to allow the genophage if it was my decision.

However I did keep the data on the genophage cure, because I felt like the Krogan would mature as a race quite quickly under Wrex and they could use this information to cure their genophage once and for all.

[askanec]

The Turians are eager to use brute force to stop the Krogan Rebellions and the Krogans are happy to oblige them with a fight. That's just dumb. The Genophage demonstrated that you don't need to kill off the Krogans to eliminate them as a threat.

Looking at the big picture, the Genophage ended the war decisively and prevented war from periodically cropping up. It also gave the Krogans the time they need to work out their aggression and become responsible members of the galactic community. The price may not be ethical, but it is necessary to ensure peaceful co-existence with everyone.

If not the Genophage, then other means (possibly even more draconian) would be used to ensure the Krogans would not become a threat again. Just look at the Rachni Wars. The Council races went too far and the Rachni went the way of the doo-doo bird (unless you gave them another chance in ME1). Is extinction preferable to controlled population growth?

Modifié par askanec, 27 avril 2010 - 12:23 .

[Masticetobbacco]

Polka14 wrote...

Nuking the Axis state of Japan was not done to control population to save others. Genophage done to save galaxy. Had to be done. Or else Krogan would rule the galaxy. Thanks for derailing this topic though. <_<

same idea.

Kill a few now to potentially prevent more deaths?

[LordMandalore]