16 réponses à ce sujet

[ComTrav]

Or, ME-style presentation vs. DAO-style presentation. Warning: Some minor ME2 spoilers--I haven't beaten all of ME2 yet myself. But playing it a lot, and then messing around in DAO now that RtO is out, has got me thinking about this issue. Do you want your player character to talk or not?

Having a voiced player character has lots of stylistic advantages. It makes for a more dramatic presentation overall (assuming, of course, the superlative voice work Bioware is justly known for). As much as I loved Alistair's this-man-is-a-dwarf speech, it seemed a little weird for the Hero of Ferelden to be standing there mute. I think this really makes a difference in the romantic subplots. Dialogue just sounds more flirtatious, romantic, and sexy out loud. "'Tis cold in my tend" was inviting, but it didn't 'wow' me as much as "You're a hard woman to compliment. I can't admire your mind or body?"/"Actually, I wouldn't mind if you'd admire my body a little bit more." Shepherd is, in many ways, a more animated and alive character then any of my DAO characters.

But on the other hand, he's not as much MINE. Shepherd is a composite of my inputs, the ME2 writers, and Jennifer Hale/Mark Meer. He's also human male or female, as much as I'd like an ME universe game with the option to play as an alien race. A mute main character is easier to project unto. The technical limitations of voice acting mean that there's more freedom in character creation and dialogue choice. (Imagine twelve different voice actors, for all of DAO's dialogue. That's more voice actors then there are for the recruitable companions.) It's hard to imagine a dialogue wheel of "Yes" and "No" when confronting the Guardian of the Ashes. When asked, "Do you regret that you killed Tirion?" there's miles of difference between, "Yes, I am a kinslayer" and "Yes, I should've known Bhelen would set me up." A voiced PC doesn't give you the same number of options, or the same precision; I accidentally started a romantic subplot in ME2 that I didn't want, and when I had to end it it was jarring to see Paragon Shepherd bust out the Renegade Voice. Which is another issue; I feel like Shepherd's character comes off pretty consistent if you make mostly renegade or mostly paragon choices, but if you're really RP-ing it up, you might find a situation where one or the other is preferable even if you are one way most of the time. Agronor Aeducan was mostly a good guy, a little rough around the edges, but as dwarf patriot he couldn't bring himself to destroy the Anvil of the Void. (There's also the moral choice system, but that's a whole other thread.)

It's easier to get into the roleplaying mindset with a mute player character, because he (or she) is more YOURS. On the other hand, it looses a little narrative 'oomph'--all of the most memorable lines from DAO are from NPCs.

Now, both styles have their advantages, and I like playing both. I'm wondering if other people have some thoughts on this, or a strong preference for one or the other. I also wonder if we'll continue to see games of both come out, or if one style or another is 'the future'.

[Merci357]

After a short break from ME2, I tried RtO, and in all honesty, my silent character feels now... strange. ME/2 feels like a movie sometimes, where I sit back during dialogues and cutscenes, but it's me who picks the lines, sometimes selfless hero, sometimes renegade (ME2 is more "grey", not so much black and white...)
My silent PC really breaks this immersion, even though it also has this cinematic look - was used to it, but in back to back comparison, I'd prefer a vocal PC anyday. However, I'd get used to this quite fast, and obviously this has advantages, DA offers more choices, more diverse dialogues then ME.

Modifié par Merci357, 31 janvier 2010 - 03:40 .

[SusanStoHelit]

I haven't got ME2 yet (next week, I think), but I loved ME. I personally prefer the fully voiced dialogue, but as you so rightly point out it's just not possible when there are so many different pcs. In ME, you've only got 2 options: male and female. I can understand why Bioware had to go backwards for DAO in that respect, and the story and other options make up for it in many other ways. But I do miss the voice.



For me, having now played a couple of fully voiced games, the others, no matter how good they are, just lack that certain je ne sais quoi.



I don't find it easier to project onto my unvoiced characters - it's harder. Unvoiced is much better than badly voiced - but ME was stellar. Male Shep was excellent, fem Shep was even better. I've gotten used to unvoiced again, mostly, but hearing all those lovely lines in DAO, that great dialogue, and being unable to really reply, well ... *sighs sadly*. I just 'hear' MY voice in my head when I do that - and it's just not good enough. A voice actor I am not. So despite their differences, all my characters 'sound' like me, which is just wrong. A very sad state of affairs.

[dkjestrup]

I would prefer if the game was released with a Tileset (a high-quality one) and no voice overs. At least then it would be really easy to make mods on the PC. If I had one....

[hexaligned]

I'd actually prefer no VC at all, I'm perfectly capable of reading, VC takes up gobs and gobs up disk space, not to mention production costs.

But more on topic, as far as ME goes, I couldn't play a male shep at all.  Whoever it is they got to do voice overs for him is just freaking grating, not to mention a horrible actor.  I couldn't even get off of the first starting planet listning to  him.  If it wasn't for Jennifer Hale, I wouldn't have been able to play that game at all.

Modifié par relhart, 31 janvier 2010 - 04:08 .

[Addai]

Even though it's odd that you hardly ever see your character's lips move, I still prefer non-voiced. I haven't played much Mass Effect but enough to know that it never quite feels right being Shepard instead of being a character I've fleshed out myself.

[beelzeybob]

I actually feel rather immersed in the game because I read the speech lines out loud as I pick them for my character. It really feels like I'm saying it lol.

..I'm weird. >_<

In ME, I can't relate to the character's voice.

Modifié par 13eelzebub, 31 janvier 2010 - 04:08 .

[errant_knight]

I think that a character as open to personal roleplaying as the PC in DA works better without voice acting, but I would have liked it better if dialogue choices/situations triggered changes in expression. That would have made the character seem more emotionally real. Still, if they did that, people would be complaining that the expressions didn''t match their character's feelings.

[RPGlover732]

well just so you all know, unless you want bioware to go poor, you wont see any voice actors for your PC in Dragon age. they dont give them voices because you are aloud to pick race and gender, meaning six diffrent voice actors (or even more if they wanted a diffrent voice actor for each origin too, but that would be crazy) Nosw dont say well they could just give all the guy characters the same voice no matter what the race, but if you play the same each race has diffrent tones and ways of speaking, like humans in fereldan tend to be more british, elves in ferelden american, and dwarves drunk

[ComTrav]

errant_knight wrote...

I think that a character as open to personal roleplaying as the PC in DA works better without voice acting, but I would have liked it better if dialogue choices/situations triggered changes in expression. That would have made the character seem more emotionally real. Still, if they did that, people would be complaining that the expressions didn''t match their character's feelings.

They do this to some degree in Jade Empire. And I agree that having SOME emotional expression on a character's face, even if they can't talk, is a good thing.

[Mahlerian]

I feel that both are better suited for the games in which they are used (basing this on ME1, not having access to a 360/PC until late March totry ME2 ) DAO is a much more traditional RPG, whereas ME tries more for an interactive cinematic/pure story experience - definitely role playing, but a completely different approach to the same concept. As you say, I like the DAO system because my character is 'mine'. I have many more options. I can be a bit snarky, but still do the right thing (my favorite), or, on the flipside, I can be polite to someone then stab them in the back, or I can just be a complete jerk or a completely personality-devoid dispenser of good deeds - not that that isn't fun to play on occasion, as well.

With Mass Effect, on the other hand, I feel much more like Shepard is a real person - a little less nuanced, perhaps, but a person nonetheless, and it is entirely possible to give him/her a bit more personality by varying responses depending on the situation. I do not feel necessarily that *I* am Shepard - he doesn't speak with my voice or have the option to do/say exactly what I would to the same extent, but I feel like I can make Shepard into a person that I can like, and get attached in much the same way I can to a character in a book or movie, which I feel is exactly what Bioware was going for in the game in general.

What I mean is, I suppose, that I don't think I want ME's version to be the "way of the future", nor do I want to see it completely abandoned. I like both systems, but I would hate to have the ME system in Dragon Age or the Dragon Age system in ME. I would still play and likely love DA2 even if it had the ME system, but it would be a different view on the character and the world - sort of a smaller-scale FO1/2 to FO3 change: still good, but in a very, very different way. I doubt that will happen, of course, since it would be such a major undertaking, given all the voices that would needed to be provided (at least 6), though they are doing it with TOR, so anything is possible.

Of course, I suppose this is entirely subjective, so maybe the average gamer wants full VO for everything, and far be it for me to tell Bioware/other RPG developers to ignore everyone else and make less money on my account. Though it would be appreciated.

Modifié par Mahlerian, 31 janvier 2010 - 05:03 .

[SusanStoHelit]

RPGlover732 wrote...

well just so you all know, unless you want bioware to go poor, you wont see any voice actors for your PC in Dragon age. they dont give them voices because you are aloud to pick race and gender, meaning six diffrent voice actors (or even more if they wanted a diffrent voice actor for each origin too, but that would be crazy)

Umm ... we know. That's why several of us already mentioned that fact at the beginning of the thread.

[ComTrav]

Mahlerian wrote...


With Mass Effect, on the other hand, I feel much more like Shepard is a real person - a little less nuanced, perhaps, but a person nonetheless, and it is entirely possible to give him/her a bit more personality by varying responses depending on the situation. I do not feel necessarily that *I* am Shepard - he doesn't speak with my voice or have the option to do/say exactly what I would to the same extent, but I feel like I can make Shepard into a person that I can like, and get attached in much the same way I can to a character in a book or movie, which I feel is exactly what Bioware was going for in the game in general.

I agree with this. When I sit down to play DAO, its like "Ok, I'm gonna go do Orzammer now," or, and with Shepherd, it's more like, "You and me, Shepherd, let's go save the universe now. Or I'll scan for minerals while you get a beer and a little quality time with your love interest."

Now that I think about it, another interesting contrast is character development. IMO, in ME2 (paragon) Shepherd comes off as much smarter and more knowledgeable about the universe and other cultures, reflecting his experience in ME1, and lets him do some savvy diplomatic moves. (This also part of game design, as with the world set up in ME1, there's less need for 'tell me about your people' exposition.) I like it, it's an interesting turn, but if you think of 'paragon' as a 'boy scout, good-natured simpleton' you don't have as much the option to play that.

In DAO-style, any character development for the PC is ENTIRELY player-driven. Shepherd can have player-driven character development, too; the player can switch love interests, can have a previous paragon go renegade, or whatever. In a lot of cases, this a subtle difference; in a Bioware game you'll always be able to control the Big Moral Choices and your relationships with other characters. But in DAO you have several available rationales for each side of a major moral choice, and you have several romantic paths that can be effective. 

[Remmirath]

I can see that having the player character voiced works for Mass Effect, because it's more of an already existing character that you customise and then play rather than your own character. I think it could've worked for Knights of the Old Republic, too.

For Dragon Age, though? Definitely not, I'd say. It's highly unlikely that whatever voice there was would sound like what I imagine my character to sound like, and I already try to choose a different voice for each one - it'd be very annoying to me if all male characters and all female characters had the same voice, because then it'd be a lot harder to imagine them sounding different.
Any game where I feel like I'm completely creating my own characters (and I much prefer that, really) I'd certainly rather have them un-voiced.

[Ichaerus1]

I'd love to have my character with voice, but.....I'd have either Loghain's voice actor, or Frank Welker as the voice actor.



http://en.wikipedia....ki/Frank_Welker



There's info on what Mr. Welker's done as far as voices for various stuff.

[Eruanna Guerrein]

My husband and I just bought ME1 and have been having this exact discussion. The one thing I don't like about the PC having a voice is that the voices are pretty boring (although the female does a better job than the male). Of course, I've felt like most of the voice acting in ME pales in comparison to DA:O.

I'm agreement with others though; I don't feel like Shepard. I took over someone else's role. You already have a career, a reputation, and you start out at age 29... you don't really know anything about your past. In DA:O, my characters are mine and mine alone. While I think it would be cool for those characters to actually have a voice, it would only be so if each character could have a different voice (and as stated, that's expensive) and if those voices were well acted (still expensive). For what ME is though, only having that one voice works pretty well (although it cuts replayability way down for me). I just hope that voice acting gets better in ME2 and 3.



The other thing we've discussed is the difference in party controls. He really likes that you pull up one screen and can choose what each member will do in the next round. He hated switching from member to member (of course he never really used the tactics much either). While I think that's okay, it doesn't even come close to being cool enough to give up the ability to scroll through all members while at camp (or in ship). I am totally hating the fact that I can't scroll over to see a member's stats when trying to decide who should get what inventory item. And not only can't you just scroll over and see it, you can't see it at all unless you are out and then can only see yourself and the two who are with you. I really hope ME2 has addressed that issue.

[ComTrav]

I feel like the male Shepherd voice acting is much better in ME2. (At least the "Paragon voice").



I agree, though, that that having only a few voices cuts down a bit on replaybility. It was so weird to watch ME2 preview videos with Shepherd's voice coming out of a Shepherd that's not mine, even if it is the 'official Shepherd'.



If we could wave a magic wand, and and solve all the financial and technical problems for having dozens of available voices for DAO, would we want that?