43 réponses à ce sujet

[charmingcharlie]

The Shelf wrote...

Okay, guys, you're missing the point. Forget about me ever even mentioning Renegade Shepard. All I'm asking is if you try your darndest to kill off as many of your allies as you can, I wonder if you'll even be capable of winning in the end.

I imagine that the allies won't be that important, if you look at ME 2 technically you don't need to gain the loyalty of all your squad to win and survive.  You will probably find if you have allies the end game will be result in a more paragon friendly way, you know flowers, hugs and kisses, slaps on the backs and generally wonderfulness.

However if you go into the battle with sod all allies it will still be possible for you to win but the ending won't be pretty, it may even lead to the death of Shepard and Tali will end up boinking Garrus and have lots of little quarin/turin offspring.

Something like that I imagine, I have to admit at the end when we saw the reaper fleet I was like "how the hell are they going to get an rpg game encompassing defeating that lil lot".

[Schneidend]

Or maybe my good friends the quarians could use dark energy to blow up a star or two in close proximity to some reapers. Suck it, squidies!

[Intelwolves]

Giant, maybe, but I got a few ideas how you can take them out and be oh so nasty it will not be even fair to them, but the more allies the better off you are. We do not have the numbers and they do. They are galaxy invasion force as the VI on Illos said.



If you have a small weaker force the best way to take out an enemy over 100 times your strength and hell bent on killing you. You have to think out side the box way our side. Sometimes old tech will beat new tech. Its just the way you know how to use it and use it well.

[Brahlis]

"Mechanically" you're a Renegade if your meter is maxed, but in the context of the game you're not a true Renegade unless you actually perform the Renegade outcomes.



So yeah, Renegades (unless they save the factory) are at a huge disadvantage to the Paragon Shep.

[Jetfire99]

Intelwolves wrote...

Giant, maybe, but I got a few ideas how you can take them out and be oh so nasty it will not be even fair to them, but the more allies the better off you are. We do not have the numbers and they do. They are galaxy invasion force as the VI on Illos said.

If you have a small weaker force the best way to take out an enemy over 100 times your strength and hell bent on killing you. You have to think out side the box way our side. Sometimes old tech will beat new tech. Its just the way you know how to use it and use it well.

I getcha I saw an old sci fi story where energy weapons were all the rage and the energu field couldn't stop a old solid slug bullet. Kinda like how kevlar vest wouldn't fair so well vs say a cross bow bolt ( I may be wrong on that don't kill me.)

[WoodWizzard87]

I'm beginning to think that ME3 is actual the suicide mission, where it comes down to the point of maybe sacrificing almost everyone to kill them, in hopes of preserving just few of each species to keep on trucking.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Brahlis wrote...

"Mechanically" you're a Renegade if your meter is maxed, but in the context of the game you're not a true Renegade unless you actually perform the Renegade outcomes.

So yeah, Renegades (unless they save the factory) are at a huge disadvantage to the Paragon Shep.

To compensate for this, I think the Paragon shepard has to suffer from:
A- an undecided multi-species council and a limited Alliance military. Sure in ME2 even the human council is ****, but that could change easily. A council ruled by a single voice can be alot mroe active.

B- Destroying the collector base would result in losing a technological edge that would have proven to be invaluable agains the Reapers.

It's not really smart to make it look like "Paragon = perfect choice" and "Regenate = stupid choice".

[grumpymooselion]

Brahlis wrote...

"Mechanically" you're a Renegade if your meter is maxed, but in the context of the game you're not a true Renegade unless you actually perform the Renegade outcomes.

So yeah, Renegades (unless they save the factory) are at a huge disadvantage to the Paragon Shep.

Interesting. I was wondering why a full Renegade shep from ME1 ended up being called a Paragon in ME2. They actually did a mix of Renegade story options and Paragon story options. My assumption here is that the Paragon story options were in greater number then without my noticing it (saved the rachni queen, but killed the council . . . ).

[Housecat4]

Intelwolves wrote...

Giant, maybe, but I got a few ideas how you can take them out and be oh so nasty it will not be even fair to them, but the more allies the better off you are. We do not have the numbers and they do. They are galaxy invasion force as the VI on Illos said.

If you have a small weaker force the best way to take out an enemy over 100 times your strength and hell bent on killing you. You have to think out side the box way our side. Sometimes old tech will beat new tech. Its just the way you know how to use it and use it well.

Perhaps maybe these reapers are weaker. since they surprize everyone coming out of the citadel and destroy any real resistance.

[Aethelwulf1066]

I don't see why the various races in the galaxy wouldn't help you, renegade or not. I highly doubt any of them would want to sit by and get annihilated without fighting back.

[Brahlis]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
To compensate for this, I think the Paragon shepard has to suffer from:
A- an undecided multi-species council and a limited Alliance military. Sure in ME2 even the human council is ****, but that could change easily. A council ruled by a single voice can be alot mroe active.

B- Destroying the collector base would result in losing a technological edge that would have proven to be invaluable agains the Reapers.

It's not really smart to make it look like "Paragon = perfect choice" and "Regenate = stupid choice".

A. And at the same time a single voice from a relatively new race to the Galactic Community could also cause unrest amongst the people. Even in Thane's mission you saw that a person was actively campaigning as anti-human and was most likely going to win because of that.

B. And at the same time Paragon Shep has the Geth, the Rachni, the Krogran, and the Quarians to back them up other than using a facility where you melt people into goo to make a weapon. I can't even see a Renedage Shep backing up a facility where you make millions of people into goo.

And I don't think it makes one a "smart choice" or "stupid choice". It actually fits in context with your character. It's foolish to think that being a  full Renegade will actually case failure in ME3. It could in fact, however, make the outcome of the game reflect your character. If you're a Pargon, you could end the game by using ruthless badass renegade tactics and defeat the Reaper force, while Paragon Shep achieves it through cooperation and a combined force of many species.

So, I think it'll just fit in the context of your character, nulifying anything being the "stupid" or "good" choice.

[Motion Blue]

Vigil himself admits that Saren is not the first, merely the most visible pawn of the Reapers.



I'm not surprised if every major incident had them behind it.

[Whereto]

the geth have probably some reaper tech in there memory banks and you can get it off them from legion. The turian cannon for the normandy is reaper tech and in a yr which i think is about the time the reapers will appear will be very adanced. dont forget with out ground forces they dont have much ground attack ability and you might find that the potherans had made a way to stop the indoctination makeing the space forces all that there is not allowing them to abduct humans or others, thus not alowing for repairs

[Schneidend]

Brahlis wrote...

B. And at the same time Paragon Shep has the Geth, the Rachni, the Krogran, and the Quarians to back them up other than using a facility where you melt people into goo to make a weapon. I can't even see a Renedage Shep backing up a facility where you make millions of people into goo.

Well, I think the idea isn't that RenShepagade would use it to make a reaper, but would instead reverse-engineer the weapons technology of the Collectors and mine all data regarding reaper strength and weaknesses. Still my Renegade just had to destroy the place. It could prove to be a powerful tool, true, but not invaluable. It was an abomination. If a place can be evil, if rock and metal themselves can be malevolent, then the Collector base was truly evil. It had to be destroyed so those it had consumed could rest in peace.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Brahlis wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
To compensate for this, I think the Paragon shepard has to suffer from:
A- an undecided multi-species council and a limited Alliance military. Sure in ME2 even the human council is ****, but that could change easily. A council ruled by a single voice can be alot mroe active.

B- Destroying the collector base would result in losing a technological edge that would have proven to be invaluable agains the Reapers.

It's not really smart to make it look like "Paragon = perfect choice" and "Regenate = stupid choice".

A. And at the same time a single voice from a relatively new race to the Galactic Community could also cause unrest amongst the people. Even in Thane's mission you saw that a person was actively campaigning as anti-human and was most likely going to win because of that.

B. And at the same time Paragon Shep has the Geth, the Rachni, the Krogran, and the Quarians to back them up other than using a facility where you melt people into goo to make a weapon. I can't even see a Renedage Shep backing up a facility where you make millions of people into goo.

And I don't think it makes one a "smart choice" or "stupid choice". It actually fits in context with your character. It's foolish to think that being a  full Renegade will actually case failure in ME3. It could in fact, however, make the outcome of the game reflect your character. If you're a Pargon, you could end the game by using ruthless badass renegade tactics and defeat the Reaper force, while Paragon Shep achieves it through cooperation and a combined force of many species.

So, I think it'll just fit in the context of your character, nulifying anything being the "stupid" or "good" choice.

A- What the people think would be largely irrelevent at that point. the Council, whether human dominated or not, doesn't care about elections and all that. 

B- I doubt the Reapers can be beaten with brute force. They have more numbers, more firepower and more experience. Sovereign alone almost annihilate the citadel fleet. The collector facility on the otherhand might provide new ensignt, discover reaper weaknesses...etc. It doesn't have to be used to create reapers, just study them and extract their technology. Of course it will depend on what the Illusive man wants.

But in general, I agree with you. Both should be able to defeat the reapers in their own way. 
However, they hsouldn't give Paragon any real advantage. Part of being a paragon is being an idealist, while a renegade is a ends justify the means type of guy. But up until now, it seems that the APragon is more the long sighted one, while the renegade is a short sighted badass.

 

[Monglor]

Worth noting that Vigil says the Reapers took several decades to beat the Protheans (although it was almost entirely one-sided) but one of the key points he makes is that by using the Citadel as the point of arrival they effectively decapitated Prothean civilisation on day one. They score that huge win, then they go to work. This implies to me that badass as they are the Reapers can't, or simply don't want to, smash headlong into a fully prepared enemy force. Sovereign was tough as nails, but it's not like a destroyed Reaper can be quickly or easily replaced and they are a long way from home.

[Seraph666]

All you Paragon Shepards need to realize that making friends doesn't always mean that everyone will live happily ever after. There's alot of friction between several of the races that could easily lead to a scrambled multi-race army. It's pretty unlikely that Krogans would fight alongside Rachni just because Shepard has made friends with both the Rachni Queen and the Urdnot clan leader. Same goes for Quarian and Geth. Even the history between Humans and Turians could easily lead to some unpleasant actions.



Alliances can be nice to have, but they are also very complex and can easily crumble. They can also quickly make what used to be friends into enemies.

[Jetfire99]

Every reaper lost is a huge loss to them. They take a long time to replace after all, also the implications they are much like the Geth leads to an possible organic origin of some sort ages ago. Either built by an organic race that some how digitized themselves.