155 réponses à ce sujet

[Sharn01]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

I don't know how people can be such friggin elitists over knowing how to do the final mission of a game.

To be quite honest.

It is not elitism, it is common sense.  Some people kill off crew member's on purpose because they do not like them. 
But getting every one out alive is just common sense if that is what you want, they practtically tell you who to send through each mission.  The only possible thing they could do to make it more clear who the choices are is not give you any choices other then the people who can do the mission with out failing.

Modifié par Sharn01, 08 février 2010 - 05:21 .

[SpideyKnight]

 Well at least the OP's name is apt.  Grats though for learning fundamental RPG playing practices.  I believe there's even a load screen that tells you to save often.  Might be time to stop blaming others for your mistakes.

[Cajeb]

Zaeed tells you stories about his team missions. Notice how in every story he is the only survivor?



Zaeed places himself before innocent lives.



Zaeed was betrayed by his entire team.



Why would you think he is someone who will bring your team back alive?

[inkgrenade]

Full loyalty, full paragon. Used Jacob to crawl through the vents (I know, horrible choice, but I thought whichever character I sent would die so I picked my least favourite). Miranda led the 1st fire team. Jacob dies, obviously. Boom.
Used Samara as Biotic specialist and Jack as 2nd team leader. Nobody dies.
Sent Mordin back with the crew members. Nobody dies.
Took Thane and Tali with me and left the rest to hold off the collectors. Nobody dies.
So, yeah, only Jacob died for me, and I don't particularly care.

I think to keep Mordin alive you should always send him with the surviving crew back to the ship.

Modifié par inkgrenade, 08 février 2010 - 05:23 .

[binaryemperor]

DrowNoble wrote...

I didn't lose anyone with my paragon soldier. When Miranda was briefing on who to take it was who had "experience" and "leadership" to lead a team.

Yeah I missed the "leadership" part and went with Samara because her description had the word "experience" in it like 5 zillion times.  I went Garrus the next playthrough. Somehow I lost Miranda for no reason at the last second.

Note I chose Thane for the vents because the dude was gonna croak anyways.  Guess that was a bad idea too.

So first playthrough I lost Thane and Legion. Second playthrough Miranda had a brain anuerism as the team made it to the ship..

Modifié par binaryemperor, 08 février 2010 - 05:25 .

[Randy1012]

Yeah, I left one save before heading through the Omega-4 Relay specifically so that I could reload if I screwed up.

The first time I tried it, I let Jacob go through the vents solely because he volunteered, and I picked Samara to lead the first fire team because I wanted Garrus in my party and I wasn't sure everyone would willingly follow Miranda. Both choices proved to be wrong, since Jacob ended up getting his brains splattered. So I reloaded and chose Tali for the vents and Garrus as fire team leader, and it worked like a charm. My final lineup, which led to zero casualties and all surviving Normandy crew making it back to the ship, went like this:

Infiltrator: Tali
First Team Leader: Garrus
Biotic Specialist: Jack
Second Team Leader: Garrus
Escort Specialist: Samara

Normally I keep Garrus and Miranda in my party, but when I thought about it from a roleplaying perspective, my Shepard would have chosen Garrus, who's been kind of his right-hand man since ME1, to lead the other team.

Modifié par Randy1083, 08 février 2010 - 05:38 .

[Battle Dolphin Ahoy]

Going into the suicide mission I had no idea on what to expect except that there was a possibility that Shepard could die. So I made damn sure that I had a fully loyal squad...

Squad Loyalty = 100%

Normandy Upgrades = 100%

Vent Specialist = Legion
Fire Team Lead = Garrus

Biotic Shield Specialist = Samara
2nd Fire Team Lead = Garrus
Crew Escort = Jacob
 
First Team = Tali and Thane
Second Team = Mordin and Grunt
Final Team = Tali and Thane
 
Squad Survival = 100%
 
All of my squad survived the encounter but the crew of the Normandy took a heavy hit. Only Dr. Chakwas and some random human colonists survived. Kelly Chambers, Gabriella Daniels and Kenneth Donnelly and the rest of the Normandy crew were all killed.

I got the No One Left Behind achievement.
 
After I wanted to see how things could go wrong and was surprised at all the deaths I missed. Looks like flying be the seat of my pants paid off.
 
This link gives all of the details of the suicide mission
 
http://masseffect.wi...t_2_Guide#Act_3
 
Looks like Mordin is the only random death out there but it can be avoided by sending him as the Crew Escort or having him on your team.

Modifié par Battle Dolphin Ahoy, 08 février 2010 - 05:44 .

[GnusmasTHX]

Zaeed is a Mercenary, ffs.

[Ari Kagura]

I don't know about you, but usually, having multiple saves can come in handy. This isn't an MMO in which what you do at one point could make you regret doing that for a long time ...

With that said, I was in a similar situation when I wanted to replay the mission because one of my squad members died-- I actually had to reload a save shortly before jumping into the Omega 4 relay. Had to kill the Occulus thing again, and go through all that crash landing sequences, but at least I got a chance to change up the choices a bit.

[Vatec]

DuffyMJ wrote...

JJ Long wrote...

I hate when people complain about this.
You simply do not know your team. If you really paid attention you would know who fits right with each job. You do not pick your favorites or pick someone because they volunteered. Pay attention to each person's story, what their skills are, etc... and you should know who goes where.
A real leader would have to make these decisions.
Every time I play, all my team mates have survived and I've been through 3 times. Not every answer will be the right one, sometimes there will be consequences for you making the wrong decision. Actions will have consequences, which is what I believe Bioware was really trying to put across and will most likely be something they implement again in the next game.
Be angry at yourself, not at Bioware. You had poor judgement and you really did not know your team's strengths. They tried over and over again in the game to point out what this mission was going to be like. These are the tough decisions that a leader would have to make. Instead of choosing who to leave behind like Ashley or Kaiden, you entire mission could hang in the balance based on your choice of who takes what role in the mission.

The choices do not all make sense.  There is no reason Samara is a bad fireteam leader, for example.  No reason at all.  She has more experience than everyone else combined and commands EPIC amounts of loyalty as witnessed on the Asari planet.

She's also just spent the last 400 years travelling the galaxy alone. Knight-errant. Samurai. Superb warrior. But not necessarily a good team leader.

I used her to escort the crew back to the ship. My roommate used her as the biotic shield specialist. Those are roles at which she excels. But commanding the second team just isn't her thing.

The one that doesn't make a lot of sense to me is why Jacob is not a good choice for the biotic shield. His personal unique ability is a barrier, after all. But if you give him shield duties, he loses it about ten feet from the door and one of your two squadmates buys the farm providing rearguard while you drag him through the door. I will forever after refer to him as Choke-ob ;^)

[DaBakerMann]

all i have to say is when playing a rpg you keep more then one save. As for this game have a save or two before going into the omega 4 relay. Easy as that OP

[Reclusiarch]

Yeah, I chose Zaeed as well, since he had experience but I guess that wasn't enough. Oh well!

[Vatec]

DuffyMJ wrote...

ChyronBlue wrote...

No one respects Zaeed as a leader, he is just a good merc. Garrus has experience leading a team and has held his own against three merc gangs. Garrus > Zaeed.

OK, I call B.S.  Garrus was a poor leader who managed to get 3 RIVAL mercenary gangs to WORK TOGETHER to wipe him out, and also led his entire team to the slaughter by not knowing his team (rooting out potential traitors) and by making so many enemies so quickly on Omega.

Sorry, that is BAD leadership.  He demonstrates himself to be a poor leader repeatedly in both Mass Effect games, he's too much of a hot head who risks too much to fight his perception of injustice, no matter the cost.

Garrus isn't a great strategist, but he is a superb tactician. Or at least he is portrayed as such. Bringing three huge mercenary organizations to utter frustration with only twelve people, mounting perfect ambushes, etc.

I'm sure Miranda would have done fine as well, but I really didn't want her leading a team with Jack on it. Bad vibes there ;^)

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Sharn01 wrote...

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

I don't know how people can be such friggin elitists over knowing how to do the final mission of a game.

To be quite honest.

It is not elitism, it is common sense.

...


case and point

[Magician]

SetSailForFail wrote...
I factored in who has the most combat experience?
Who has had experience leading men?
Who has done impossible missions and come out alive?

Uh... Zaeed? Zaeed? and Zaeed?  I chose Zaeed.

Zaeed's experience is significant but he's a lousy leader, always looking out for himself. He's managed to come out alive from doing impossible missions at the cost of his team(s). Did you perhaps miss that little impression on Zorya? 

[RadiantViper]

Lol ... Zaeed is a jerk, I wouldn't trust him with anything besides being in my squad fighting.

Tali for tech (obvious), Garrus for both leaders, Samara for biotic (most powerful) and I chose Thane for taking people back to the Normandy because in his recruitment mission he liked saving people while still getting the job done.

The game tells you several times that it's a suicide mission ... hell, it's in the marketing! And you're whining cause some people died? As others said, you really should've made a save.

[Vatec]

Oh, and to address the original post:



Yes, the Restart Mission option should revert to just before you select your specialists. It didn't affect me because I'm a savegame fanatic (final save in my cabin with Tali on the couch was #520). But it just makes sense to restart before any critical decisions have been made.

[Permutation]

I chose Tali for her tech and engineering abilities to unlock the doors. Miranda for her tactical knowledge to lead Fire Team. Samara for her biotic prowess to create a barrier for Legion, Grunt and myself. Everyone made it out alive.

[Inverness Moon]

SetSailForFail wrote...

snip

You set sail for fail by not having multiple saves.

[Cajeb]

As for why Jacob sucks at biotics, he is human. Normally human biotics are pretty damn weak compared to an Asari

[Vatec]

Oh, Choke-ob's collapse didn't really surprise me. I just thought it was ironic that a guy whose unique ability is a biotic barrier had difficulty maintaining a biotic barrier ;^)



He's still one of my favorite characters. Honestly, though, I liked almost all the characters this time around. Bioware did a really good job on them.

[Nigawatts]

Zaeed is...a Merc...



I mean come on, you kill more mercs in Mass Effect 2 than anything else. You have to realize how much mercs absolutely suck at their jobs. I mean jesus christ people in the universe act like these guys are top of the line, professional soldiers. ****, I wouldn't trust them to protect a damn bowl of jello.

[Permutation]

Vatec wrote...

Oh, Choke-ob's collapse didn't really surprise me. I just thought it was ironic that a guy whose unique ability is a biotic barrier had difficulty maintaining a biotic barrier ;^)

Yeah, I found that a little ironic as well. But... Samara is a Justicar, with several hunded years of experience behind her. I would choose her biotic abilities any day over Jacob, even Liara. She's basically the Mass Effect equivalent of a Jedi Master.

[Gerse1]

SetSailForFail wrote...

I'm just finished my first play through and I've got to say... ME2 is officially my all time favorite game.  The story is right up there (probally better, longer, and deeper) with ME1.  The combat is much more enjoyable, especially in real time.  However...  I'm really kind of dissapointed with the final mission.

I talked to every squad member after every little mission.  Unlocked every dialgoue.
Had loyalty from everybody.
I helped every single person that I could.
Completed every side mission.
Explored every planet.
Unlocked every weapon upgrade / ship upgrade / prototype.

Then hopped in the Omega 4 relay.

I still lost squad members.  Apparently I didn't choose the "ideal" team members for each part.

I picked Tali (tech specialist) for the vents.  Then was deciding on a leader for the 1st fireteam.

I factored in who has the most combat experience?
Who has had experience leading men?
Who has done impossible missions and come out alive?

Uh... Zaeed? Zaeed? and Zaeed?  I chose Zaeed.  Apparently, that's the wrong answer, and the correct answer is Garrus (I assume this is b/c Zaeed is a dlc character?).  When Tali got wacked, I flipped ****.  I've got no way to restart as I saved part way through the level, choosing restart level doesn't let you repick your teams.  Great... just great.  Now I have to replay the entire game... the entire same way WITH NO DIFFERENCE just to change one thing in the final 2 minutes of the game so I can transfer it in to ME 3.  Good god... who though of this?  I don't mind playing the game for different perspectives... but urgh.  URRRRRGHHHHH.  I think I'm going to cry now...  I'm really not feeling scanning planets for resources.

Everything in this game absolutely rocks... except scanning for resources.  It's so... so boring.  So boring.  Hold LT + L Thumbstick to the right + R Thumbstick to the right.  Spin the globe for 10 revolutions going down 2-3 grids each time.  It's mind numbing.  Even with upgraded scanner.

I don't mind the suicide mission, but at least make the "restart mission" feature actually... you know... restart the mission in a future game.  And please don't let the resource thing make a come back.  It's just not fun.  At all.

Just gonna reply without reading all the other posts for overlap because my eyes are tired =).  I have to agree that the suicide mission has some serious flaws, the saving (or inability to) being one of the biggest.  Luckily I've always made multiple manual saves including saving on the Normandy right before jumping into the Omega Relay, so I could go back to that point once I was halfway through the suicide mission and realizing, as you did, that even though my choices felt really logical (and like you I had every character, all loyal, all upgrades, all side quests, everything) clearly they weren't "correct" because people were dying. 

Anyway, I think they made it so you'd have to go back all the way tot he beginning of the suicide mission to change your choices so that you'd have a sense of urgency/desperation/realism, feel like Shepard, who doesn't have the option of turning back, and when someone dies, they die.  But...that reasons' not good enough for me, mainly because as we've both said, what caused people to die didn't seem to follow logical choices all the time.  We players should be able to tweak our suicide mission choices more easily precisely because of the ME3 carry-over.  If this were purely a stand alone game, I might not care, because hopefully the ending would bring closure and it would just be either happy or sad.

And just regarding the whole loyalty thing as it relates to everyone's survival, that too didn't make sense. Not being loyal means *they* die, not Shepard. Should be the other way around, or at the least their lack of conviction gets someone *else* killed.

And yes, the resource mining is SO boring.  I want to make a second playthrough as renegade, and I want to upgrade the Normandy again, but I don't want to have to sit through all that scanning.....in a way I'm kind of baffled as to how Bioware could allow that in this game and not realize how awful it is, there were so many other things they did a great job on.  

[RBKeys]

2nd team leader: Miranda (Second in command on the ship)

Vent Specialist: Legion (He's a robot -- nuff said)

Barrier: Samara (She's a f***ing Justicar)

Crew Escort: Tali (Because she's useless in my team set up)

My Team: Mordin and Zaeed (incendiaries are wicked awesome against health and armor)



I had a lot of troubles because of the insanity difficulty (mostly prominent AI glitches that I encountered), but this set up rocked it for me.