155 réponses à ce sujet

[TobiasRieper]

It's fun how a lot of people are moaning about their characters dying. While just about 90% of those actually deserve it by making poor decisions. I got all my team members to survive on the first play-through, without having that much issues. If you don't think about who to assign to what role, then you deserve to lose some.



I think too many ppl just went "ah what the heck, I'll just choose that one because I want the shiny one with me", rather than really look at the character's specilisation. I mean, leading a fire team, why would you even consider anyone outside of Miranda or Garrus is beyond me.



Or people just randomly assigned ppl figuring it wouldn't matter, well, that's your own fault too then.



(only moaning which is justified is the fact Mordin dies at random, but I haven't had it happen to me yet)

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Erakleitos wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

So you didn't kill any collectors much?

Perhaps that is a cause, particularly the ones at the last valve.

Wait... it was Legion + Zaeed, and not Legion + Garrus. I used Garrus on 2nd attempt with Tali (who was unloyal and died). Sorry i played until late last night and my memory is not working at 100% ;p

To quote Yoda... "That is why you failed..."

Zaeed = bad choice as has no doubt been pointed out several times in this post, specially people referring to the OP who posted 8 days ago (not a dig at you Erakleitos, just some of the other people)

[Dussan2]

Ok, replayed final mission and MORDIN STILL DIED.



Tali in the tunnels.

Miranda leading first fire team

Garrus the second

Jack on Biotics.



Mordin is dead when I kill the reaper!



WTF!



Ii'm going to replay

[The Capital Gaultier]

 Zaeed could lead men, but never earned loyalty from them.  You learn this from him during his loyalty mission.  Garrus definitely earned his men's loyalty, and Miranda and Jacob have been leading missions for Cerberus for a while.  Not all of the team member's like the two Cerberus operatives, but those two are the leaders of the crew.

[ReplicantZero]

Dussan2 wrote...

Ok, replayed final mission and MORDIN STILL DIED.

Sent Mordin back with the survivors (seemed to make sense at the time with him being a doctor) and he survived for me (was loyal).

Although in retrospect, his character is actually more combat-orientated than say Tali, given his decent shield/health/damage buff and nice selection of attack powers.

[kingsims]

its pretty simple choices that you are presented with Leadership choice (Miranda/Garrus). Hacker Choice (Tali/Legion). Biotics Choice(Samara/Jack). Escort Choice(Mordin, seems logical choice because hes STG, Doctor and destroyed the blue suns and vorcha who tried to attack his Clinic defending civillians + he randomly dies for some reason for some people unless hes in escort).

[fogofeternity]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

 Zaeed could lead men, but never earned loyalty from them.  You learn this from him during his loyalty mission.  Garrus definitely earned his men's loyalty, and Miranda and Jacob have been leading missions for Cerberus for a while.  Not all of the team member's like the two Cerberus operatives, but those two are the leaders of the crew.

Though in that case it'd be more likely that a member of Zaeed's team would die, rather than Zaeed himself. It's pretty clear from the "conversations" with Zaeed that he's nothing if not a survivor, even to the extent of losing whole mercenary crews and getting out himself.

Still, I think Zaeed is a logical choice to make as a squad leader in the context of the game. It's not a stupid decision to do so. Sure, with hindsight you can say that it's clear that Zaeed is a poor leader, by placing great emphasis on him losing control of the Blue Suns...a mere twenty years ago. That he's successfully survived another two decades as a mercenary suggests he knows what he's doing.

In fact most of the decisions are reasonably logical to take, and the flaws only come up with the benefit of hindsight.

I sent Jacob through the vents. He was the only one who volunteered, and given I didn't know what was going to happen in those vents, I'd prefer to have someone who was physically capable of defending himself effectively. I balanced that against the need for an ultra-techie. I know some people says "it's obvious, Miranda says you need a tech"; but really, have you taken every word Miranda or any other character says as gospel throughout the whole game? Sure, it's obvious she's right after the event.

[TLK Spires]

fogofeternity wrote...

Though in that case it'd be more likely that a member of Zaeed's team would die, rather than Zaeed himself. It's pretty clear from the "conversations" with Zaeed that he's nothing if not a survivor, even to the extent of losing whole mercenary crews and getting out himself.

you realize this, and yet you picked him to lead your team.

on a suicide mission.

[stillnotking]

Dussan2 wrote...

Ok, replayed final mission and MORDIN STILL DIED.

This is a common issue and there are a lot of theories about why this happens.  It may be determined by how long it takes you to do the final part (if true, it's a dirty trick by BioWare to give no timer or other indication).

[Gabey5]

zaeed isnt a leader... the guy is a lone wolf

[fogofeternity]

TLK Spires wrote...

fogofeternity wrote...

Though in that case it'd be more likely that a member of Zaeed's team would die, rather than Zaeed himself. It's pretty clear from the "conversations" with Zaeed that he's nothing if not a survivor, even to the extent of losing whole mercenary crews and getting out himself.

you realize this, and yet you picked him to lead your team.

on a suicide mission.

In hindsight.

During playing the game I thought something along the lines of, "well, Zaeed's been leading mercenary companies for 20 years, and people still hire him for a lot of money. That means a) he's a survivor, he's got experience of leading men and c) he gets the job done."

All of which is true.

[TLK Spires]

fogofeternity wrote...

TLK Spires wrote...

fogofeternity wrote...

Though in that case it'd be more likely that a member of Zaeed's team would die, rather than Zaeed himself. It's pretty clear from the "conversations" with Zaeed that he's nothing if not a survivor, even to the extent of losing whole mercenary crews and getting out himself.

you realize this, and yet you picked him to lead your team.

on a suicide mission.

In hindsight.

During playing the game I thought something along the lines of, "well, Zaeed's been leading mercenary companies for 20 years, and people still hire him for a lot of money. That means a) he's a survivor, he's got experience of leading men and c) he gets the job done."

All of which is true.

he lead one group. and they all died.

he survives because he lacks regard for the lives of others. he is notorious for a lack of a conscious. he gets the job done because of the aforementioned reasons.

it's not a matter of hindsight so much as it is a matter of 2 + 2 = 4.

[The Capital Gaultier]

During playing the game I thought something along the lines of, "well, Zaeed's been leading mercenary companies for 20 years, and people still hire him for a lot of money. That means a) he's a survivor, he's got experience of leading men and c) he gets the job done."

All of which is true.

If you're picking it on those qualifications, Garrus is the far better choice.  He successfully led men for quite some time, despite being wanted by three different mercenary groups.  He survives taking more damage than any human could hope to, and he definitely gets the job done.

[fogofeternity]

TLK Spires wrote...

he lead one group. and they all died.

he survives because he lacks regard for the lives of others. he is notorious for a lack of a conscious. he gets the job done because of the aforementioned reasons.

it's not a matter of hindsight so much as it is a matter of 2 + 2 = 4.

No, you *hear* about one group that all died. Zaeed himself was at least enough of a leader to set up the Blue Suns in the first place (even if he later lost control), and presumably at some point over the past 20 years he'd done more than just get people killed. He's a very expensive merc hired for a wide variety of jobs.

I don't really care, because I don't equate having the whole squad survive as necessary to a great roleplaying experience, but I don't agree that squad selection is as blindingly obvious as people suggest.

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

If you're picking it on those qualifications, Garrus is the far better choice.  He successfully led men for quite some time, despite being wanted by three different mercenary groups.  He survives taking more damage than any human could hope to, and he definitely gets the job done.

Which is why Garrus led my first group and Zaeed my second. Sure I could have just chosen Garrus twice, but he was with my personal team second time around. 

Notably Garrus also got his entire squad killed. And yes, I know that it was because of betrayal, but everyone says that Zaeed getting betrayed by the Blue Suns is evidence that he couldn't provoke enough loyalty, but gloss over the fact with Garrus.

Modifié par fogofeternity, 08 février 2010 - 11:46 .

[The Capital Gaultier]

fogofeternity wrote...

...I don't agree that squad selection is as blindingly obvious as people suggest.

Definitely agreed.  I think it's that old electronic ego problem.

[fogofeternity]

Incidentally, it's one area that might really have benefitted from greater inter-squad interaction during the course of the game. If there's been more conversation between your squad mates it might have become far clearer in the context of the game who was respected and who wasn't.

[stillnotking]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

fogofeternity wrote...

...I don't agree that squad selection is as blindingly obvious as people suggest.

Definitely agreed.  I think it's that old electronic ego problem.

I think it's pretty obvious if you restrict yourself to reading the dossiers and don't overthink it based on your prior experience with the character.

Granted, that's kind of a cop-out and maybe even a bit of metagaming, but if you know how these things tend to work then you know that the developers will embed strong clues in those dossiers.

[fogofeternity]

stillnotking wrote...

I think it's pretty obvious if you restrict yourself to reading the dossiers and don't overthink it based on your prior experience with the character.

Granted, that's kind of a cop-out and maybe even a bit of metagaming, but if you know how these things tend to work then you know that the developers will embed strong clues in those dossiers.

Heh, I'm 3/4 of my way through a second playthough and still haven't read any of the dossiers. Mind you, ME2 on 360 has kind of put me off reading *any* in-game information.

That being said, makes the choice more dependent on the type of Shep you play, if you're roleplaying it out. My first playthrough Shep probably is the kind of guy who'll ignore written material in preference to gut feeling based on personal experience.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

fogofeternity wrote...

...I don't agree that squad selection is as blindingly obvious as people suggest.

Definitely agreed.  I think it's that old electronic ego problem.

I agree too, some could easily argue that Garrus should be able to equally do as well in the vents.

He obviously is good with some technical stuff due to his calibrations of the ships guns
He's a Combat/Tech so in theory he should be able to actually work better under pressure than Tali could... or at least as good as, if you were to think about it in such fashion. Considering he is a sniper, he'd also surely not be stupid enough to stick his head out from behind cover whilst trying to fix the door

Before anyone asks no I didn't lose Garrus to the vents, just stating a point Fogo has raised.

The only one that really makes sense for it to be just the two possible choices is the Biotic stage, because they need to concentrate all their energy on maintaining that field, if the biotic powers aren't up to max (as only an adept could) then it is a bit obvious that it likely not to hold it long enough despite Miranda's boasts... although I will be using her in a run where am RPing that she intentionally dropped it whilst one of the foolish aliens was still shooting near the door

[The Capital Gaultier]

fogofeternity wrote...

Notably Garrus also got his entire squad killed. And yes, I know that it was because of betrayal, but everyone says that Zaeed getting betrayed by the Blue Suns is evidence that he couldn't provoke enough loyalty, but gloss over the fact with Garrus.

The reason is better for Garrus' betrayal.  A member of his team had his family held hostage, and it was only a single team member.  In Zaeed's case, six of his men were just paid to hold him down while Vido killed him.  A qualitative difference of betrayal.

[fogofeternity]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

The only one that really makes sense for it to be just the two possible choices is the Biotic stage, because they need to concentrate all their energy on maintaining that field, if the biotic powers aren't up to max (as only an adept could) then it is a bit obvious that it likely not to hold it long enough despite Miranda's boasts... although I will be using her in a run where am RPing that she intentionally dropped it whilst one of the foolish aliens was still shooting near the door

Yeah, that's definitely the most obvious. Particularly as Miranda talks in one of her first couple of conversations about how she's only a great biotic "for a human". It's why I chose Samara without really thinking about it, even Jack shouldn't be able to match up with an Asari for pure biotic power (particularly something as controlled as the protective bubble).

[Aisynia]

Only read first page, but must comment on Zaeed.

I love Zaeed, one of my favorites, and I wish he was romance material (would be my first choice every time).

However, a leader he is not. He doesn't command respect (well, he gets mine but..), and every, SINGLE TIME he talks about leading a team, something goes horribly wrong.

There's the obvious Blue Suns deal where everyone betrayed him and shot him in the head. I doubt he's revealing everything there..

Or the time him and a team were hired to take out that turian starship.. and they all died but him...

Or the time he was almost choked to death by the jellyfish, and it's implied whoever was with him that day also died horribly.

I may be forgetting something.

I think in another life, Zaeed would have made a great leader, but he's just got an aura of really, really, REALLY ****ty luck encompassing him. Follow him, and die...

Modifié par Aisynia, 08 février 2010 - 12:00 .

[The Capital Gaultier]

fogofeternity wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

The only one that really makes sense for it to be just the two possible choices is the Biotic stage, because they need to concentrate all their energy on maintaining that field, if the biotic powers aren't up to max (as only an adept could) then it is a bit obvious that it likely not to hold it long enough despite Miranda's boasts... although I will be using her in a run where am RPing that she intentionally dropped it whilst one of the foolish aliens was still shooting near the door

Yeah, that's definitely the most obvious. Particularly as Miranda talks in one of her first couple of conversations about how she's only a great biotic "for a human". It's why I chose Samara without really thinking about it, even Jack shouldn't be able to match up with an Asari for pure biotic power (particularly something as controlled as the protective bubble).

Jack is a freak, though.  In multiple ways.  Sacrificing people to power up another seems to be common in ME2.

[Zangelin]

Ok... so like i got everyone to survive and..

specialist: Legion

Fire team: Jacob



then.. that second time i set Jacob to lead again

Samara to do the Biotic stuffs

and Thane to lead the crew back to the ship



Then i let everyone left except my squad stay behind and hold the door



And as i said.. everyone survived

[Northborn]

To the OP, have you not played Zaeed's mission? Its pretty fricking easy to see he's little more than a rabid dog. Because he's lead people in the past doesn't mean that it makes him a good leader. Using that mindset you should have picked Tali as the fire team leader, since she lead a group on Freedom's Hope!