115 réponses à ce sujet

[Ararara]

What mission? No one would recruit a quarian. This is seen in ME2 when the Quarians are thought of thieves and C-sec blames one for stealing. That and no one on the citadel would hire or recruit a Quarian.

Modifié par Ararara, 31 janvier 2010 - 07:42 .

[Ararara]

Ararara wrote...

What mission? No one would recruit a quarian. This is seen in ME2 when the Quarians are thought of thieves and C-sec blames one for stealing. That and no one on the citadel would hire/recruit a Quarian.

Quarians aren't given much of a choice, you don't see Quarians in the merc groups or anything.

Modifié par Ararara, 31 janvier 2010 - 07:44 .

[gpelous]

With the treatment she gets, Liara seems like a given in ME3 (comics, only character that can't die in the serie so far). However I don't agree on the fact that, because character are part of the suicide mission, they are expendable. And I do expect my crew to be back, pending the death of Thrane due to is illness, one way or another. It will be a mess to explain for Bioware if a player played well enough so that no one is left behind and, in ME3, you start alone again.
I don't expect them to be part of the squad, but at least have some cameo appearance like Ashley/Kaidan, Liara and Wrex (who rocks as a Leader for the krogan...This guy is a beast!)
To get back to Tali, she seems to me the character who is most likely to jump through a hole if Shepard ask her to, no matter what. So yes, she is the heroine among the non playable characters for me.

Modifié par gpelous, 31 janvier 2010 - 07:45 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Did you miss the fact that I'm speaking about what is "likely" given the facts?

I didn't miss anything, you just speak a lot about how it's only your opinion, only to insist that you are right and it's going to be that way and you actively shoot down anything that disagrees with your opinions as if you were speaking gospel. You seem to have an awful big chip on your shoulder about the ME2 LIs.

[InvaderErl]

MountainPuncher wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

Not join you and book passage on a ship not heading into a dangerous mission?

But that's just not in her character.  She despises the Geth and would give anything to bring the fight to them in a major way. 

But that's what I'm saying. She believed that Shepard was doing important work and Saren's relationship with the Geth certainly colored her perception in that regard but she was right - it was crucial. I'm arguing she didn't join to book passage off the citadel.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
I didn't miss anything, you just speak a lot about how it's only your opinion, only to insist that you are right and it's going to be that way and you actively shoot down anything that disagrees with your opinions as if you were speaking gospel. You seem to have an awful big chip on your shoulder about the ME2 LIs.

I don't insist that I'm right. I'm debating my opinion.

There's a lot of evidence and logical reasoning as to why all these ME2 love interests won't carry a huge role in ME3. They're all potentially dead, and potentially dead characters have a track record of not having important roles. I ahve actual evidence supporting my opinion here. My opposition seems to have nothing but blind hope and uncertainty.

I'm not trying to offend or upset anyone. Just speaking my mind.

[Ararara]

InvaderErl wrote...

MountainPuncher wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

Not join you and book passage on a ship not heading into a dangerous mission?

But that's just not in her character.  She despises the Geth and would give anything to bring the fight to them in a major way. 

But that's what I'm saying. She believed that Shepard was doing important work and Saren's relationship with the Geth certainly colored her perception in that regard but she was right - it was crucial. I'm arguing she didn't join to book passage off the citadel.

I know she didn't join to book a passage off the citadel, but she wasn't given much choice either.

[InvaderErl]

But you wrote, "

Ararara wrote...



That is later on, but at the start she only joins you because of her pilgrimage required her to find something to help the flotilla and she wanted to get away from the citadel.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
I didn't miss anything, you just speak a lot about how it's only your opinion, only to insist that you are right and it's going to be that way and you actively shoot down anything that disagrees with your opinions as if you were speaking gospel. You seem to have an awful big chip on your shoulder about the ME2 LIs.

I don't insist that I'm right. I'm debating my opinion.

There's a lot of evidence and logical reasoning as to why all these ME2 love interests won't carry a huge role in ME3. They're all potentially dead, and potentially dead characters have a track record of not having important roles. I ahve actual evidence supporting my opinion here. My opposition seems to have nothing but blind hope and uncertainty.

I'm not trying to offend or upset anyone. Just speaking my mind.

Just because you don't agree with someone's reasoning doesn't mean they have none and are only following 'blind hope'.

By your logic, Kaidan and Ashley won't have big roles either. Because one of them is going to be dead. Which means the only LI in the game would be Liara, which would cause a severe backlash among the fans. The ME1 and ME2 LIs are currently on even ground as far as game time, there's no reason to show bias to one over the other. Furthermore, there will be more room on your team if they don't introduce too many new squadmates. They had 12 in this game. That's a lot of wiggle room.

[Ararara]

I mentioned that she joined as part of her pilgrimage, but worded the second part wrong. What I meant is she PROBABLY didn't want to stay on the citadel. So she wasn't given much of a choice. Had Quarians been able to get a job and finish their pilgrimage with ease, Tali might not have been so reluctant to join you.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Just because you don't agree with someone's reasoning doesn't mean they have none and are only following 'blind hope'.

By your logic, Kaidan and Ashley won't have big roles either. Because one of them is going to be dead. Which means the only LI in the game would be Liara, which would cause a severe backlash among the fans. The ME1 and ME2 LIs are currently on even ground as far as game time, there's no reason to show bias to one over the other. Furthermore, there will be more room on your team if they don't introduce too many new squadmates. They had 12 in this game. That's a lot of wiggle room.

You're only partially correct here. Yes, both Kaidan and Ashley CAN die, but if one is dead the other is guaranteed to be alive. Kaidan and Ashley fill the exact same role, as seen in ME2. They can be in ME3. That's not too far a stretch to give them both a big role that they share.

But giving 6 separate characters each an individually large role? Not so much. And you can't really say that all 6 ME2 LI's can fill the same role ala Kaidan and Ash unless their role is really watered down and generic. Kai and Ash are both Alliance marines with almost identical circumstances. The ME2 LI not so much.

[Schneidend]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Realistically I don't see that happening unless they drastically reduce the importance of squadmates and likewise drastically reduce their dialogues. You can't just have a gigantic pool of squadmates all with important missions and dialogues and insight into the main quest, especially if most of these people can be dead.

You can hope all you want, but, given the facts, I honestly wouldn't advise getting your hopes up. At all.

Considering how in-depth ME2 turned out while having almost twice as many squad mates as before, I'd say you're just being pessimistic. Given the same amount of time and resources (if not more, since the game is doing very well already), I'd say what I'm hoping for is entirely plausible.

[InvaderErl]

It makes no sense from a business standpoint when ME 2 is a much bigger hit than ME 1 was to revert to the ME 1 characters at the expense of the ME 2 ones.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

You're only partially correct here. Yes, both Kaidan and Ashley CAN die, but if one is dead the other is guaranteed to be alive. Kaidan and Ashley fill the exact same role, as seen in ME2. They can be in ME3. That's not too far a stretch to give them both a big role that they share.

But giving 6 separate characters each an individually large role? Not so much. And you can't really say that all 6 ME2 LI's can fill the same role ala Kaidan and Ash unless their role is really watered down and generic. Kai and Ash are both Alliance marines with almost identical circumstances. The ME2 LI not so much.

See? You say that as though you are the authority on what is and isn't correct.

I can really say that, because it's possible. If they're filling the same role as an LI, it is a similar role. They are going to react to you similarly. If you get shot, they're all going to rush to your side. They have to record for different voices anyway, so adding different lines to suit their personalities is the same amount of work as doing the same line six times.

We both have the same amount of facts, we are simply interpreting them differently. That doesn't make my interpretation 'wrong', or yours 'right'.

[ThatDancingTurian]

InvaderErl wrote...

It makes no sense from a business standpoint when ME 2 is a much bigger hit than ME 1 was to revert to the ME 1 characters at the expense of the ME 2 ones.

That's true, with ME2 being a veritable juggernaut for EA, I can imagine BioWare would get a budget increase.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Schneidend wrote...
Considering how in-depth ME2 turned out while having almost twice as many squad mates as before, I'd say you're just being pessimistic. Given the same amount of time and resources (if not more, since the game is doing very well already), I'd say what I'm hoping for is entirely plausible.

I'm very pessimistic and I won't deny it.

But you also have to look at how ME2 is structured. Like 75% of the game or more is SOLELY about the squadmates, recruiting them all, and doing a mission for them all. ME3 will be about stopping the reapers and (if the clues in ME2 point at anything) assembling various fleets to stop the reapers. If they want to tell a grandiose story then they realistically won't have time and disk space to offer a huge pool of squadmates unless their roles are all watered down and generic.

I mean, let's face it, ME2's story isn't exactly complex. You know all the details about the A Plot barring one or two plot twists from the very beginning. I hope ME3 has something a little more involved.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
See? You say that as though you are the authority on what is and isn't correct.

I can really say that, because it's possible. If they're filling the same role as an LI, it is a similar role. They are going to react to you similarly. If you get shot, they're all going to rush to your side. They have to record for different voices anyway, so adding different lines to suit their personalities is the same amount of work as doing the same line six times.

We both have the same amount of facts, we are simply interpreting them differently. That doesn't make my interpretation 'wrong', or yours 'right'.

I'm not saying I'm right. I'm telling you my prediction and why I've predicted it. You don't have to believe me. You don't have to respond to my arguments. I like to debate. Again, I'm not trying to offend anyone or say they're definitely wrong. I'm presenting my case.

But to reiterate my other point, Kaidan and Ashley have virtually identical dialogue in ME2. It's not just "the same reactions" to Shepard's behavior; it's pretty much identical dialogue and identical circumstances.
It is possible that they could do that with 6 individuals in ME3, but do you really think it's likely? If it is likely do you think that role will be particularly large, or will it be jsut like Kaidan and Ashley in ME2 where their roles are so small that it makes no real difference to give them both dialogue. It's only one short scene, not an entire game.

I don't care about "techncial possibilities". It's possible that ME2 will feature 65 squadmates and 32 love interests. Is it likely? (an exaggeration, but it shows my point.

[Lord Atlia]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Schneidend wrote...
Considering how in-depth ME2 turned out while having almost twice as many squad mates as before, I'd say you're just being pessimistic. Given the same amount of time and resources (if not more, since the game is doing very well already), I'd say what I'm hoping for is entirely plausible.

I'm very pessimistic and I won't deny it.

But you also have to look at how ME2 is structured. Like 75% of the game or more is SOLELY about the squadmates, recruiting them all, and doing a mission for them all. ME3 will be about stopping the reapers and (if the clues in ME2 point at anything) assembling various fleets to stop the reapers. If they want to tell a grandiose story then they realistically won't have time and disk space to offer a huge pool of squadmates unless their roles are all watered down and generic.

I mean, let's face it, ME2's story isn't exactly complex. You know all the details about the A Plot barring one or two plot twists from the very beginning. I hope ME3 has something a little more involved.

By this same logic it would be nonsensical for Shepard to recruit a whole new crew.  My hypothesis is that your squad will be made up of surviving ME1 and ME2 characters and that most of the missions will not be about building a squad but building an army.  I wouldn't be surprised if you started off with all ME2 squadmates (that are alive) and that early on you recruit ME1 peeps so that the squad is full within the first 5% of the game.  Bioware still has many ends to tie up (TIM, shadow broker, the reapers and their goals, geth/quarian conflict) to waste resources on developing new characters.

[InvaderErl]

Very good point. The third game is going to be filled with a metric ton of stuff as is.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 31 janvier 2010 - 08:18 .

[Sinborn]

Where would you all be if Aria told you to go screw a volus? That's right. NOWHERE.

[ThatDancingTurian]

When one presents a case, especially one based on speculation, they generally do not use absolutes such as 'you are not correct' or 'that isn't going to happen'. Just for future reference.



It would be pointless to add Ash and Kaidan as some sort of epic LI in ME3 if they have the same dialogue. They were place cards in ME2. To have an actual role, they'd have to expand that, have them talk about experiences exclusive to them. If they're going to go through the trouble for that, why wouldn't they do it for the others? Especially when they spent an entire game focused solely on befriending them, -far- more so than they did with the shallow ME1 characters? What would be the point of that investment, and how could they possibly get away with an entirely new crew showing up at the last minute in the final installment?



Is it possible that ME2 characters won't be back? Yes. Is it likely?...

[InvaderErl]

Sinborn wrote...

Where would you all be if Aria told you to go screw a volus? That's right. NOWHERE.

Those bastards are faster than they look!

[stylepoints]

Let's put it this way. I REALLY hope they bring Tali/the other people from your crew back for ME3. Legion and Tali are by far my favorite characters so far. On one hand I think it would make sense from a gameplay standpoint that they stay with you (Legion is obviously an adoring fan of shepard's and Tali is Tali.)



However, I really doubt bioware will invest the time required to make this third game what it could/should be. If they actually live up to what I and many other fans want it would be a heroic feat to include all of these characters as deep squad members. Realistically I don't expect these characters to be making a big return though.



Something to think about though is that they may have less technical work to do for the third installment. The graphics look better and the game runs better. Also Bioware has more writers than anyone in the industry I'm pretty sure. If anyone could pull it off it would be Bioware. The question is whether or not Bioware just wants to cash in or if they really want to pour their hearts and souls into completing this trilogy in amazing fashion.

[Burningwolf]

Yes,Squadmates can die in ME2.

Yes,the devs have said that you can really bork yourself in ME3 by poor performance in ME2.

And you can pretty much bet the barn that any player is going to have thier final save with thier ME2 LI intact.



I'd laugh my tail off if ME3 give you 2 new characters and any surviving teammates from ME2.Because that is exactly how I would make it play out.That would give between four and fifteen squadies.ME had 6.If you totally crap out your me2 import save...well you get what you deserve.



Course the default playthrough would have to let you keep at least half the squad alive...

[Faerlyte]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

I view Shep/Garrus/Tali at this point as the emotional heart of Mass Effect.

I totally agree. I think all of the characters amped up the emotion in this one, but Garrus and Tali just broke my heart and warmed it at the same time.

I'd just like to third that. Those three are where it's at. 

If BioWare takes the more complex and epic road, we should be able to carry over our decisions to let certain characters live - or all of them - and have them as recruitable in ME3. I imagine not all of them would be, but certain characters we should have the choice to recruit if we left them alive. It can be done - the question is will they. Certainly it would take more work, but it's not impossible and they should do it. 

It would certainly provide an extra depth to the game too, seeing as they haven't done it before. A way to improve upon ME2 possibly? Your choices would have a more prominent effect on the outcome of the next game. 

Modifié par Faerlyte, 31 janvier 2010 - 08:30 .