141 réponses à ce sujet

[Junebug88]

who cares if someone dies? Your actually creating different variables for ME3.

There is not even a guarantee that your squad mates are going to be playable in the next game. Last i checked these people were hired to stop the collectors, not be the saviors of the galaxy.

[Dave of Canada]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Endo322 wrote...
They ask who should lead the distraction squad.

So?
I'm just playing devil's advocate here. It's a videogame and you don't know how clearly each individual aspect of each individual side mission is stressed. Take the first thing task. A "tech expert" is needed. Hmm, Garrus is supposed to have a lot of tech experience. Tali has a lot of tech experience. Mordin and Legion surely have tech experience. Guess what? They can all potentially die in that position depending on loyalty and the task itself. Tali can die there. How does loyalty suddenly make Tali a worse tech expert?

It's not all cut and dry.

Tali and Legion are the biggest tech specialists, it's even explained on their mini-biographies on the side of the screen about their past experiences.  Loyalty is also how much they are focused on the mission, most loyalty quests are about the individual completing something in their life so if they died on the mission they at least died fufilled. If Tali is bothered by her charge of treason for example, she won't be as focused when trying to close the door at the last mission - she'll get sloppy, the door will jam.

[shinobi602]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Endo322 wrote...
They ask who should lead the distraction squad.

So?
I'm just playing devil's advocate here. It's a videogame and you don't know how clearly each individual aspect of each individual side mission is stressed. Take the first thing task. A "tech expert" is needed. Hmm, Garrus is supposed to have a lot of tech experience. Tali has a lot of tech experience. Mordin and Legion surely have tech experience. Guess what? They can all potentially die in that position depending on loyalty and the task itself. Tali can die there. How does loyalty suddenly make Tali a worse tech expert?

It's not all cut and dry.

Oh come on. They don't want people with "experienced" with some tech, they want a tech expert.  Tali is solely focused on that. First thing when you hear tech expert is Tali. How many times is it stressed how Quarians are experts at tech? She's the main tech squadmate out of all of them.

[Radahldo]

I think they overemphasized the infiltrator part, which made me choose Garrus. I didnt realize it was some harmless troddle through some vents; I thought agility, spatial reasoning (since Collector architecture is so weird) and etc were necessary.

[rumination888]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

They don't press the "leadership" stuff on the second fire squad. They say it's a diversionary force. Grunt as a krogan should be able to withstand a lot of fire as a diversion while the other team members support him.

There are varying levels here, and keep in mind that hindsight is always 20/20.

You're right. Grunt would make an excellent diversion....
....but using your own body as the diversion just screams "death", doesn't it?

[Mystranna Kelteel]

shinobi602 wrote...

Oh come on. They don't want people with "experienced" with some tech, they want a tech expert.  Tali is solely focused on that. First thing when you hear tech expert is Tali. How many times is it stressed how Quarians are experts at tech? She's the main tech squadmate out of all of them.

Yet she can still die. Who's to say that a quarian tech expert knows any more about Collector or Reaper technology than Garrus? You have to assume that tech is tech. And if tech is tech, how do you know that one person's tech experience won't be enough to fulfill the given role?

I played some of these on my test runs simply giving the roles to people I thought were decent because I didn't particularly like the character. I sent Garrus into the vent once. I figured, hey, I know he's not the BEST tech expert, but it's just opening and closing a door. If he dies, no big loss, but he should probably be able to take care of it.

And the whole loyalty angle is iffy at best. Tali is on a suicide mission. If she's worried about charges of treason so much that her normal brilliance turns into fumbling failure then she shouldn't have been on the team to begin with.

[aeetos21]

MountainPuncher is right, Thane dies no matter how many upgrades you give to the Normandy. Need a tech specialist to open that door.Not sure how Mordin gets killed though, in the end? Any clues on that one.

[shinobi602]

aeetos21 wrote...

MountainPuncher is right, Thane dies no matter how many upgrades you give to the Normandy.

He's survived in both my playthroughs so far...

[rumination888]

aeetos21 wrote...

MountainPuncher is right, Thane dies no matter how many upgrades you give to the Normandy. Need a tech specialist to open that door.Not sure how Mordin gets killed though, in the end? Any clues on that one.

Theres varying levels of loyalty in the game, even though only 2 types are recorded(normal and loyal). At the end of a loyalty mission, you can read a report about whether or not the squaddie is still distracted by something.

[x3nophon]

well i completed the loyalty quests for everyone. didn't use legion at all.



tali in the vents

samara as the biotic

sent tali back with the crew



upgraded the normandy fully



and no one died

[Archdemon Cthulhu]

shinobi602 wrote...

aeetos21 wrote...

MountainPuncher is right, Thane dies no matter how many upgrades you give to the Normandy.

He's survived in both my playthroughs so far...

He means if you make him do the vent mission.

I was annoyed that picking the ****ing Scientist for the Tech job got him killed.  I mean, I get why Legion is teh better choice in hindsight, but he's a BRILLIANT SCIENTIST and they re-iterate that often.  I assumed he would count as an expert, but alas....oh well, it was good in the sense I felt genuine emotion when he died, it was my first playthrough, and I wasn't expecting it.

[Focant]

I tried really hard myself to keep everyone alive. I did all the defensive/offensive upgrades to the ship (I think) as well as the scanner upgrade and had loyalty with all but Miranda and Zaeed.

I basically picked the obvious ones for the roles like Tali in the vent, Samara as the shield, and Jacob/Garrus as squad leaders since Miranda had no loyalty. Sent Mordin back with Doctor Chakwas since he seemed fragile lol.

Thankfully everyone came out alive except for the crew since I explored a bit before leaving for the finale. I don't think I could live with any of them dying. D:

Modifié par Focant, 31 janvier 2010 - 08:41 .

[rumination888]

Archdemon Cthulhu wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

aeetos21 wrote...

MountainPuncher is right, Thane dies no matter how many upgrades you give to the Normandy.

He's survived in both my playthroughs so far...

He means if you make him do the vent mission.

I was annoyed that picking the ****ing Scientist for the Tech job got him killed.  I mean, I get why Legion is teh better choice in hindsight, but he's a BRILLIANT SCIENTIST and they re-iterate that often.  I assumed he would count as an expert, but alas....oh well, it was good in the sense I felt genuine emotion when he died, it was my first playthrough, and I wasn't expecting it.

Mordin's tech field of expertise is biogenetics. Tali and Legion's tech field of expertise is engineering. The descriptions when you select them even say this. They reiterate that this is a SUICIDE mission, so you need the BEST person for the job.

[Sharn01]

At this point people argueing over not selecting the best person for each job are either trolling or beyond hope.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

I'd say the bigger troll is the topic creator.

Granted, I don't think he was actually trolling, but this topic seems very, very unnecessary and rude when there are all kinds of reasons for people to end up dead in the end mission.

[aeetos21]

I chose Thane the first time because I didn't want to risk losing Tali and I didn't trust Legion fully - and it came back to bite me in the ass. Still don't understand how Mordin might die during the end, everybody else but he survived.

[Schneidend]

I have to agree. There are a lot of variables we don't know about that cause party members to die seemingly without reason. I've had a friend lose Mordin for seemingly no reason, and lose Legion in the door-closing scene after the vent entrance, even though Legion is supposed to be the absolute best choice for this.

[ShadowWolf_Kell]

Keep in mind that time is a variable as well. I used Miranda as fireteam leader and Tali as the tech expert on the initial run, and moved kind of slow. Tali died.



Reloaded and pushed through quickly... Tali lived.



So even if you choose the "optimal" options, success isn't always guaranteed. There are other factors involved during the mission as well.

[BearShark]

Everyone is saying it's a bad idea to make Grunt the diversion team leader, but that's who I picked and he survived.

The only one I lost was Thane.

There has to be more than just loyalty and picking the right person for the right job, because I'm sure others have had Grunt die because they chose him as leader, so why was it different for me?

[Freyzer]

aeetos21 wrote...

Strategy Spoiler*

It's simple, keep everybody alive by upgrading the ship! If you're unsure if you don't have anything just go talk to Joker. Ask about other things and you'll see the question about the ship. Hit that and he'll talk about that status of the upgrades and what needs to be done.


Off the top of my head it goes...

1. Couplings (Omega)
2. Food for the mess (Citadel)
3. Medlab (Chakwas gives it to you after you get her her brandy - again Omega)
4. Probe pods (Thane)
5. Armor (Jacob)
6. Guns (Garrus)
7. Kinetic barriers (Tali - after you do her sidequest)
8. Planet tool (Miranda)
9. Fuel conservation... I forget

That's about it I believe, again check with Joker to be safe. Otherwise try to keep people loyal as much as possible and if you're unsure then Tali can do the ducts, Miranda works well in leading both teams, Samara can do the biotic field thing, and then take Miranda (Overload and Warp) and Mordin (Incinerate) to the final boss and you'll be set. No one will die.

I didn't get the fuel one and everyone lived.  I think only weapons, armor, and shields matter for the ship.

[rumination888]

BearShark wrote...

Everyone is saying it's a bad idea to make Grunt the diversion team leader, but that's who I picked and he survived.
The only one I lost was Thane.
There has to be more than just loyalty and picking the right person for the right job, because I'm sure others have had Grunt die because they chose him as leader, so why was it different for me?

Differing levels of loyalty. Not just "normal or "loyal", but theres hidden levels within "loyal", too.

[Spartansfan8888]

On my first playthrough everyone survived and I made a few choices different than what seems to be the general consensus of what works... but it was on normal, everyone loyal except Zaeed, and with all ship upgrades. Perhaps difficulty plays a role? I picked Tali for the vents because she's the tech person of the group. I chose Garrus as the squad leader both times over Miranda even though both were loyal just because he was a former c-sec officer and spectre candidate, and from a RP perspective Shepard would trust him more than Miranda. Samara and Jack I felt were the two strongest biotics for the barrier, but I chose Samara since it was her idea and she seemed to know what she was doing. Jacob was my choice to save the crew, just felt he was a good protector and wouldn't need him for a specialized task later. I kept Miranda and Thane with me the whole time. Those who say they kept losing Thane; was he with you? Maybe that made a difference.

[BobbyTheI]

Just off the top of my head, I can't help but wonder if there are some variables that might not seem obvious. I've had everybody survive in two out of my three attempts (Damn Thane, should have taken more tech courses in school). One of those playthroughs, I wasn't aware of the whole "stall after the IFF mission = crew all melt" thing, but still manage to have all my companions live, so that's not part of the problem. A few things that occurred to me as I was playing through the last time:

1. Before each of the two "segments" of the mission, you have the option to give a big speech to your assembled team on the left side of the wheel, and a "Let's get moving" option on the right.  I wonder if skipping the speech lowers your characters' morale and lead to their deaths.

2.  Could character level have an influence on it? My first Shep was level 29 when he got to the Collectors, and my second maxed out at 30.  Maybe skipping the side missions that aren't related to the main storyline, but giving you experience enough to be at that level, might make survival less possible?

3.  Missed weapon upgrades, perhaps?  Maybe the folks dying don't have their default weapon upgraded all that well, and therefore get killed?  I only thought of this because one of the loading screen messages says something like, "You can make upgrades in your lab.  Some affect your entire team; others only affect Shepard.  Choose carefully."  Maybe a hint that non-ship upgrades for the team matter more than you think.

4.  And now I'm really grasping at straws, but each time I've played through the final mission, I've had every character in their alt outfit (I liked the way they all sorta matched, like we were some bizarre pop group  ).  Don't suppose that leaving the character in their original outfit makes them somehow less loyal, or maybe I'm grasping at straws.

Other than that, I can't think of anything, but then I'm a completionist who did EVERYTHING in all my playthroughs, including upgrades like the medbay that don't seem necessary, so maybe there's some little mission or upgrade that I hit that others might have bypassed.

[AuraofMana]

People who claim the game did not give obvious hints on who to pick for different roles: WOW...
The game was VERY SPECIFIC on what the role required.  It's not the game's fault you SKIMMED and did not read the EXACT requirement it wanted.  For example, the Tech expert for the pipes.  It is clearly stated that it wanted a tech expert.  It did not ask for anything else (agility, spatial judgment, etc.).  Your own concept of how it works is not how the game asked, and so you didn't follow the instructions.

Pipe: Tech Expert.  The most logical choices here are either Tali or Legion.  This is because they are PURE engineers.  Legion seems to be a superior choice because the Geth seems to be more familiar to Reaper technology than the Quarians.  However, the game did not specify that detail, so both of them works (what a shocker, the game actually gave you specific detail and you can just follow it).

Team Leader: Someone to lead a fire team.  Leaders in the game: Miranda or Garrus.  Miranda's class talent is all about leadership, and Garrus has led a team of 10 for the last two years.  If you read this wrong and picked someone who is the most battle-hardened, then you did it wrong.  The best soldier may not be the best leader.  Someone was complaining about how Zaeed should have worked because he started the Blue Sun, it was obvious through his conversation about that that he was the one fighting alongside his men (READ HERE: NOT LEADING).  He has been a lone mercenary for years.  If you actually talk to him in the ship, he recalls stories where he and other mercenaries fight missions and he LIVED while others DIED.

Shield: The instant Miranda said any biotic can do it should have raised a red flag.  It is obvious the best choice is to pick someone who is specifically dedicated to that role.  The way she mentioned it just raises more suspicion.  Samara and Jack are the only two pure biotic in the game, so it is obvious they would work.

Distraction Team: Another leader.  Pick Miranda or Garrus.  See above.

Escort: This actually works with just about everyone.  The only reason you would fail here is because you didn't do the loyalty quest.  The game never really asked for any specific traits and you were given the most choices.

The argument that the game never asked for pure classes is bull**** and you know it.  When you select someone for a job, you always get the BEST possible, which means someone who is SOLELY dedicated to that role.  That is common sense.

[FoFoZem]

Jack died for me on the Normandy during our chase through the debris field or whatever.



It's obviously really sporadic. Jack was loyal and got rallied, but Zaeed and Grunt were as unloyal as it gets and they got out unscathed