5472 réponses à ce sujet

[meathook]

Viruscat, I have been hanging around here since before you even started posting chars, and distinctly remembering you being a fan and very supportive of Petehog, why have you suddenly changed your view and attack him at every turn?

I don't want to start an arguement, but you seem set on antagonising people, yet big up your own designs no end... I'll probably get slated for this comment. Your designs are very good, but peeps like Petehog, Mochen and Presence are better, frankly, they are extremely talented, and that ain't gonna change so I suggest you learn to live with it.

You have singled out 'popular' Petehog this time. But by your own admission, he has his own style, just as you are so proud to have. Why criticise this? It's what makes each designer stand out from the crowd. If I am to be brutally honest, you seem a bit jealous.

[LadyAly]

@meathook I think she is more tired of some people who not even allow to say a tweet about Petehogs design. And it should be allowed to say the meaning if she don't like a design - as it is pretty normal  to say a design is beautiful.

Some fans of petehog going in my opinion over the line here.

Modifié par LadyAly, 19 mai 2010 - 03:47 .

[VirusCat]

Attack? I'm only stating my opinion. I tried to tell him why I no longer use his mod and why I don't like the majority of his work anymore, the only thing I got back from that comment was mean responses.

I stated that his work was amazing in the beginning because I felt that way. I stated that I loved his particular style. I also told him that I think he's going a bit too far now. He's tweaking his characters again and again and again, and the only result is characters that end up looking very much alike each other. This is a common problem for any type of visual artist, and therefore: for me too. That's why I stopped making PC-morphs (since they all came out alike each other) and started to work with different bases and different goals.

It's okay for you to state that these 3 persons are so much better than I am (without even telling me what makes them so), but it's not okay when I "attack" you fav? Grow up.

I do agree that mochen and Presence, and some that you didn't mention, are much better than me at making characteristic morphs with strong personalities. I cannot however agree that Petehog is better than me :3 Mainly because he sees "lore" as keeping a characters colors/hairstyle but tweaking the facial structure to look like his version of a doll-couple. It works for PCs, not when he redesigns all the NPCs >>>>>IMHO<<<<< :3

[meathook]

Ok VirusCat, Thankyou for the response.

Please don't tell me to 'grow up' as I find this remark insulting. I am trying to have an honest discussion here. I hope you can reciprocate. This is a good discussion, I hope we can keep it civil.



I understand that your comments are of course your own opinions. But let me clarify why I think for example: mochen, is better. All her designs are immaculately proportioned, they all have a unique look and her use of color co-ordinantion is the best I've ever seen. She uses mods very subtly and to great effect. Her faces capture the very essence of a personality and she has obviously put a lot of thought into her NPC designs because they really bring out a specific trait in the char (wherease your designs are mainly just touch-ups)



You are free to disagree with my opinions of course, especially on Petehogs designs, as you have made abundantly clear. But you must however maintain a respect for individual style and preference.



I do like your designs, but I feel that I should not be over critical for fear of discouraging you. Remember that different ideas are what keep this thread going... I feel you are being over critical of Petehogs designs. Maybe understandable as you have your own mod to push...

I think we should all respect eachother for being brave enough to throw our creations into the mix.

[wraithx64]

Some - actually I all - of these characters are just excellent! It makes me wonder: do you guys/gals just sort of try and try until you arrive at these results, or there is some kind of tutorial to making good looking characters? All the custom characters I created ended up looking horrid, and I always resorted to downloaded character creator files...

[VirusCat]

@meathook
I asked you to grow up since what you were doing was very childish. You seem to think it's okay for you to say that I'm not that good, but when I clearly tell Petehog what I think about his latest designs... i'm "attacking" him. It's fanboyish and childish of you to state that. So I told you that :3

As a somewhat known visual artist here in my town, I have gotten my fair share of critisism in my days. I hate when people say "X is better" or "that morph/painting/photograph/sculpture doesn't look good" without telling me exactly what makes my work inferior or bad. I can't get better if I can't get pointers on what to change.

I find it odd that you tell me that my morphs are "just touch-ups" when I just recently started that kind of project (because yes, it is my goal to just touch-up the morphs atm). What about my real morphs, my own creations, what are they "touch-ups" of? Or did you just ignore them for this discussion? If so, what makes them not as good as others?

I don't feel that I'm "over critical". I think his morphs lack a spark, and so I tell him that. I think he's "overworking" his designs. Simple really. I used the type of language and tone that works in the visual art-community I'm a member of, since he is now a popular visual artist of Dragon Age. Seeing his response (a few pages back, where I think he insulted me) I guess it was not the right way to go.

@wraithx64
I think we just... make whatever we find pretty. It's hard to describe the feeling I get when making a morph... I just make it.

Modifié par VirusCat, 19 mai 2010 - 04:44 .

[meathook]

You said 'grow up' after I stated I prefered other peoples designs. Ok so I am childish for failing to include an explanation for this. Apologies.



Fair enough you have started a 'touch up' project. I'm not going to get into an arguement with you over the relevance of this again. Regarding your 'real' morphs, well to be honest your dwarves are very good. Nice work there. You deserve a lot of credit.

...The others just don't stand out enough for me. They are a bit generic (and your solution to this seems to be to make some of them bald)

Please understand that I am only stating my opinion, as you have on Petehog's designs numerous times.



Which post are you refering to regarding petehogs insult toward you? I'm just trying to understand the situation more.

[VirusCat]

Petehog wrote...

Mostly this one.

The discussion can be viewed here.

I am not going to argue with you about my reason to write "grow up" since you seem unable to see what I meant. And - I have 1 bald character + a bald Morrigan that I made because YH told me to.

[Schratty]

I jacked with her eyes and lips for at least an hour and while I managed to make her more proportionate, she lost some of her charm everytime I altered my original morph. However, I was inspired by VirusCat's wonderful presets insomuch as I've decided to include a mods-free version of every preset I make.

Viola:

Modifié par Schratty, 06 août 2010 - 06:57 .

[VirusCat]

Maybe I sounded harsh yeah... I was pretty mad that my long and caring comment got the short response it did so.. I guess I was more harsh than I intended to be. That's life on the internet I guess.



About your little lady, keep her! By all means. I do agree with the others that she simply fits that way :3 Loving the non-mod-version :3

[Petehog]

VirusCat wrote...

Petehog wrote...

Mostly this one.

The discussion can be viewed here.

I am not going to argue with you about my reason to write "grow up" since you seem unable to see what I meant. And - I have 1 bald character + a bald Morrigan that I made because YH told me to.

This discussion is only part of the equation. You actually have to go back in history and read every comment that Viruscat has ever said to me.

I need to say something because I've held this in for a long time and I've tried to be patient.There came a point where I felt that she had nothing good to say.

I always felt that whenever I received feedback from Viruscat..it wasn't constructive. It felt more insulting rather than helpful.

As a modder, I am no stranger to criticisim. I am open to learning from my mistakes and building upon them, but I can only do so when the advice I am given is specific and constructive.

Whenever someone tells me things I should fix, I don't make excuses. I put my pride to the side and I just do it because I respect the opinions of others. Someone tells me that something else will work, I do it. I respect their opinions. As long as the constructive feedback is SPECIFIC, I do it....

This relates because whenever I have ever recieved feedback from Viruscat, I always felt that it wasn't constructive. I never recieved specific ways on how to improve a character. When I read her posts, it seemed more like thrashing rather than trying to help. It just didn't seem right because I never said anything bad to her or about her work.

Let me give you an example.

I was looking to make a new version of Zevran. Everyone was supportive. Mochen and tmp7044 actually gave me pointers on specific things I could do to fix it and now I'm very happy with the design and I'm excited to release it to the public. But before I even started on the design, I felt Viruscat was basically telling me to give it up. What if I listened to her advice? If I listened to her advice, nothing would have done and I have no opportunity to improve..

Viruscat said," That isn't anywhere near as good as v.9"

Viruscat said,"Why do you feel like you need another version? What is it you want to accomplish with the Zev-morph?

What value does this add? All her comments are pretty much the same. It adds no value.

It's a huge contrast from the advice that I recieved from Mochen and tmp7044. They gave me true constructive and specific advice which has been very helpful.

Viruscat places a disclaimer about how much she hates it when criticism is not constructive. But I feel that she isn't great at handling constructive criticism or at giving constructive criticism. I feel that if someone offers her constructive feedback or ways to improve a design, she makes excuses or she resents the person. It's always something like, "Oh that's a bad screenshot" or it was this.....it's an excuse, and as a result, her designs stay the same. You can't ever get better if you keep making excuses.

I've observed Viruscat and the way she treats people and I really don't like the way she treats new people. I feel that her comments are very unfair to them. When someone is starting out and doesn't quite have all the skills just yet, everyone's pretty encouraging and helpful but Viruscat has this way of making newbies not feel good. I've noticed
whenever she makes a mean comment to a newbie, they completely stop posting images. They just dissappear. And I feel that's not right.

Her response is "Your design is ugly and does not belong in the Prettiest character forum" or "That looks like an alien"

How does that help someone?

Whenever I make advice, I try to make it as specific and constructive as possible. I take the time to look at thier design. I print out the image in my printer. I take a pen and draw things that I feel could improve the design. I scan the printed image.  I write out specific pointers to help people and I want them to feel good.

Honestly, if you look at every comment I've ever made to Viruscat, I never said anything bad about her or her designs. That image above was my defense because I got fed up.

Anyways, I think I just made myself very unpopular from here on out but I'm not holding this in anymore. This is the truth and the way I feel with no candy-coating. If I have offended anyone, including Viruscat, I wanted to apologize. I never meant for it to be like this


I generally don't get angry and it takes a lot for someone to really get me there...but I had to defend myself so that people can understand why I feel the way I do.

Modifié par Petehog, 21 mai 2010 - 10:44 .

[LadyAly]

Sometimes people should talk with each other in private BEFORE things going out of hand ...

[VirusCat]

It's fine if people want to skip reading this post. Go on, skip it!

Since this is already public, I guess I feel like I have to defend myself in public too and not just leave this **** here like it never happened.

[quote]Petehog wrote...
This discussion is only part of the equation. You actually need to look back and read every comment that Viruscat has ever said to me.

There came a point where I felt that she had nothing good to say. [/quote]
This point must have come after that XZevran then. I have been a fan of your work for months. I used your redesigned and couldn't think of playing the game with original morphs. But you kept tinkering with the designs and while some of your eye-textures are really well made, some just seems flat and soulless. I can't give any deeper reason than that. I don't know what makes them feel as tho they lack a soul, but I think they do.


[quote]Petehog wrote...
I've observed Viruscat and the way she treats people and I really don't like the way she treats new people. I feel that her comments are very unfair to them. When someone is starting out and doesn't quite have all the skills just yet, everyone's pretty encouraging and helpful but Viruscat has this way of making newbies not feel good. I've noticed whenever she makes a mean comment to a newbie, they completely stop posting images. They just dissappear. And I feel that's not right.
[/quote]
I don't get this. I might come out as harsh sometimes, and I have gotten a few pointers on it and I do think I have apologized every time that has happened. More than once (and actually, last time was yesterday) I have gotten friend-requests from new morphmakers after having commented on their work. I always point out what I think is lacking in a design from my point of view, and also state what I do like (unless it's something I have said many times before to the specific person, it feels like she/he should know that by now and so on).
I'd like you to point out those new people that left after a comment from me, cause I can't find any such "evidence". If you do find someone where you can point out where I was mean and that the person stopped posting, I will contact that person and tell the person I am truly sorry because I WANT new people to come to this forum, post and show us the work they have done. I don't want to be mean, and I do not intend to be mean. If I came out as such and offended someone, please make yourself known and I will apologize to you if I feel that it was truly my fault (which it often is)

[quote]Petehog wrote...
She places a disclaimer about how much she hates it when criticism is not constructive. But I feel that she isn't great at handling constructive criticsm or at giving constructive criticism. I feel that if someone offers her constructive feedback or ways to improve a design, she makes excuses or she resents the person. It's always something like, "Oh that's a bad screenshot" or it was this.....it's an excuse, and as a result, her designs stay the same.[/quote]
Look at the first page of the Character Show Off, people pointed out that my Aaryanna's eyes were too high up. I did lowered them, liked the result and thanked everyone for pointing it out.
I blamed screenshots when someone stated that Aaryanna looked famished, and I posted new screens and the person told me that it was just the screenshot's fault indeed. I also blame screenshots when it comes to my touch-up project because frankly, pics are horrible when trying to show of a character that moves and talks alot in the game. The pic is just too static.
Also, when someone is giving me constructive critisism I have as much right as everyone else to completely disagree with the critisism and ignore the persons opinion, since it is my morph. I might try the changes, revert and then tell the person that I disagree about it looking better. Just as Schratty did right in this thread not too many posts ago.

[quote]Petehog wrote...
Whenever someone tells me things I should fix, I don't make excuses. I put my pride to the side and I just do it because I respect the opinions of others. Someone tells me that something else will work, I do it. I respect thier opinions. As long as the constructive feedback is SPECIFIC, I do it....[/quote]
Yes, because you make a mod for others. I make my morphs primarily for my own enjoyment. I also try out people's feedback, but often it doesn't fit me and so i revert to my old creation. Can't you see this difference? You have put your "pride" to the side because you want your mod to be liked by others, I don't. Because I want my morphs to be liked by me. If anyone else likes it, I get truly happy, but it is just a bonus.

[quote]Petehog wrote...
This relates because whenever I have ever recieved feedback from Viruscat, I always felt that it wasn't constructive. I never recieved specific ways on how to improve a character. When I read her posts, it seemed more like thrashing rather than trying to help. It just didn't seem right because I never said anything bad to her or about her work.[/quote]
I'm sorry you feel that way. I guess I don't come off as i thought I did. "trashing" is something I would never do on purpose. I have given you specific feedback MANY times under these months. You have thanked me, you have listened and changed stuff. But I guess that doesn't matter any longer because I don't like your latest creations? Remember Loghain? People have given you alot of cred for that character that I helped improving with my feedback. No? You don't remember? Too bad. You stated just some time ago that it was my opinions and my feedback on Nexus that made you make Loghain the way you did. This is not the only time I have given you specific feedback, just the biggest one.

[quote]Petehog wrote...
I was looking to make a new version of Zevran. Everyone was supportive. Mochen and tmp7044 actually gave me pointers on specific things I could do to fix it and now I'm very happy with the design and I'm excited to release it to the public. But before I even started on the design, I felt Viruscat was basically telling me to give it up. What if I listened to her advice? If I listened to her advice, nothing would have done and I have no opportunity to improve.[/quote]
This is utter bull****. I never said that. I asked what you wanted to achieve with the new design. I wondered why you made him pale, and told you that it didn't suit Zev. I think I'll just quote myself here:

[quote]VirusCat wrote...
Alright, some constructive critisism now when you have uploaded other pics.
The whole face looks so... dull? I guess that eye-thing made it worse. Skintone doesn't fit him at all either. Overall just not outstanding enough.

Why do you feel like you need another version? What is it you want to accomplish with the Zev-morph? I think you have to be careful with your designs now, or else you'll just tweak them TOO much and they'll lose their unique thing.

Being an artist who works with a bunch of different types of visual art, I know how it's easy to overdo stuff. For example: I have ruined more paintings than I have finished, simply because I just had to change "just a little bit more". After just a little while, the painings had lost their "thing" and they all came out boring and too much alike each other.
This is where I see you now. As a good artist who has made some cool and amazing work, but is starting to go a little too far with some of them. Don't take this as critisism to your work or your person. Just stop and think about it for a second. If you don't agree then, by all means, continue with whatever you wish to do [/quote]
I just tried to tell you the thing I tell to every visual artist I meet. People that get stuck because they overwork their creations. You just left a short comment about how you didn't agree at all, and you didn't answer my questions about the morph. I got snappy. For the snappy comment I do apologise. But saying I asked you to give up is bull****. I wanted to know the goal of the morph so that I could help guide you in that direction. I ask this question many times to not anger someone by saying what they should change without knowing what their intentions were.

[quote]Petehog wrote...
I fixed the "soulless" issue entirely in the "Enhanced Lore Version" of Dragon Age Redesigned 7.0 which is going to be more realistic versions of the original designs that stay much more true to the lore. It's something I've been working on since April 22nd .[/quote]
I don't agree, I saw the pics that was up on Nexus a while, and saw the same problems in these designs. Sure, it's the same haircolor, the same skintone... but you removed the big nose on some guy, and the jutting chin of another. You don't stop at making them better, you make them perfect, and that's my problem with your work. It's just MY problem with your work and others seems to disagree with me. But no, you didn't fix the soulless thing in my eyes.

[quote]Petehog wrote...
Whenever I offer feedback, I try to be  SPECIFIC and CONSTRUCTIVE. I actually take the picture, I scan it, I draw out lines..I put it in Photoshop and actually write out pointers to help people.I want to make them feel good but I want to help.  I type out specific things that can help the design.I don't just say "Oh your design is soulless" and that's it.[/quote]
I don't do that either. I offer my opinions on a character. I might like the look overall but maybe the nose is bothering me? Then I say "Wonderful character, she has a fierce arua about her! Altho that nose looks a bit out of place. Maybe make it thinner/wider/longer/shorter/whatever". If I didn't do that on a design I must have been very distracted. I always try to comment what I like and why, and what I don't like and how a person could change it. I don't get mad if people doesn't want to change it, I just accept that we don't have the same taste and comment on the look from that perpective.

[quote]Petehog wrote...
Honestly, if you look at every comment I've ever made to Viruscat, I have always been respectful. I never said anything bad about her or her designs. That image above was my defense because I got fed up.[/quote]
Every comment? I can remember 2 or 3 comments about my work. You tend to not post your opinions on people designs.

[quote]Petehog wrote...
Anyways, I think I just made myself very unpopular from here on out but I'm not holding this in anymore. This is the truth and the way I feel with no candy-coating. If I have offended anyone, including Viruscat, I wanted to apologize. I never meant for it to be like this.{smilie}[/quote]
I don't think you did. But saying that you want to apologize for offending me in the same post that you lie and call me mean and such... that's just odd.

Now I'm going to ignore whatever more is said about this topic in these threads. Let this thread go back to being a competition about pretty morphs, shall we?

[Petehog]

Viruscat said, Can't you see this difference? You have put your "pride" to the side because you want your mod to be liked by others, I don't.

This is contradictory to everything you've ever posted so far.

Modifié par Petehog, 19 mai 2010 - 08:48 .

[Petehog]

Viruscat
Every comment? I can remember 2 or 3 comments about my work. You tend to
not post your opinions on people designs..

I never said anything bad to you or about your designs. If anyone can find a single post where I did, please let me know.

Modifié par Petehog, 19 mai 2010 - 08:49 .

[VirusCat]

Petehog wrote...
I won't comment on it. It is contradictory to everything you've ever posted so far.

If you want to quote me, don't do it out of context.

Thsi is the quote:

VirusCat wrote...
Can't you see this difference? You have put your "pride" to the side because you want your mod to be liked by others, I don't. Because I want my morphs to be liked by me. If anyone else likes it, I get truly happy, but it is just a bonus.

I didn't mean to imply that I don't want my mod to be liked by others. I meant that I DO NOT put my pride to the side like you do.

I get sad if my morphs are not liked by others, true, I want them to be liked... but not at the cost of me not liking them anymore. I do NOT put my own pride to the side to make changes I don't stand for. My last judge of a morph is myself, and I will not go through with a change if I do not like the result better. That's the meaning of this quote. It's not contradictory to anything I have ever said.

If I ever make a mod where I tailor my morphs after only other peoples wishes, I'm going to shoot myself.

Petehog wrote...

Viruscat
Every comment? I
can remember 2 or 3 comments about my work. You tend to
not post
your opinions on people designs..

I never said anything
bad to you or about your designs. If anyone can find a single post where
I did, please let me know.

I didn't imply that you did say anything bad. I just told you that I can't remember much good either. You have commented on my morphs less than a handfull of times, it's just facts.
Which is sad if you do feel that I need to improve something and do not say so... because then "I can't get better" :3

Modifié par VirusCat, 19 mai 2010 - 08:54 .

[Schratty]

Icebreaker!

I was going for cute with this one.

[VirusCat]

Aha! I think I see "your style" here! Cute is definitely one of the first words that pops into my head. "Sweet" and "Aware" is the others :3


(if you want anything negative read the following, otherwise, skip this ;D
I'd say tone down the makeup a bit. Glistening lips doesn't really fit the game's setting imho... and she looks like she missed the edge of the lower lip a bit and smeared the lipstick a bit too far out... was that mean to say? It feels a bit mean! Anyway, just my opinion! I hate makeup xD)

Modifié par VirusCat, 19 mai 2010 - 09:19 .

[Schratty]

Thanks! Sorry to interrupt the discussion that was going on. I'm one of those people who pretends to text during awkward moments

I'll play with the make-up settings and see what's what

Modifié par Schratty, 19 mai 2010 - 09:23 .

[Thiev]

Posting in the middle of ongoing discussion seems like a bad idea, but well...

I've got a morph that I really like, but something in it bothers me still and I can't quite lay my finger on it. So... maybe someone who is better at this (I just mess with sliders till I somewhat like the outcome:D ) could help.



And BTW:
@Schratty - lovely designs, especially coloring in that earlier one.

[LadyAly]

@Schratty She is really a Cutie. I think the light you choose for making the screen shot harms a bit the colours and make up as well - it so greenish and gives her a unnatural look.



@Thiev - well first thing my eyes caught was her nose. Far too small for the round face, a bit to high probably too. Maybe play around with a bit to see how it works out, her features are promising

[Schratty]

@ Thiev: First off, thank you! Secondly, concerning your morph, here's what I'm thinking: I love her nose and her facial structure, the only thing I would suggest is maybe making her mouth a tad wider. She is very beautiful as is, however


@ LadyAly: Thanks I'll look into finding a scene with better lighting.

Modifié par Schratty, 19 mai 2010 - 09:40 .

[VirusCat]

It's the opposite of a bad idea. Let's just ignore the walls of text back there and keep on topic :3

@Schratty
Just remember that it's just my opinion, and if YOU like it, you should keep it ^^

@Thiev
I don't see anything wrong with that character. Maybe you feel that she doesn't fit your goal? I seem to remember someone posting a design that he or she was a bit bothered about. He/She couldn't figure out why, and no one could see anything that stood out as "wrong". It happened to be that the character didn't look like the character the person had in mind. Say for example that you want a non-strict character, but make the moprh that you did -. which I would call pretty "strict". Then she doesn't fit into the role you wanted her to have and she looks odd in your eyes :3 Oh dear now I'm blabbering

Modifié par VirusCat, 19 mai 2010 - 09:38 .

[yasuraka.hakkyou]

schratty: is she a toolset creation? I would tweak the cornea size. she is cute.



thiev: I think the features are a little small and the jaw, chin, general face etc is / are too big for the features. The nose seems a little small (and angular but that's personal preference), the jaw looks a little wide, and this is very much so personal preference, but I don't like girls having sharp, jutting features. I like the face to be smooth, flowing and connective. but she has potential, don't let my bluntness discourage you.